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The soldiers in question are also apparently from the desk jockey part of Bahad 1 (the officer training school). I'd be shocked if they had fired their weapon more than twice before the incident so allegations that they were afraid to shoot because of Azaria might be slightly exaggerated.
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Jan 8, 2017 16:22
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Cat Mattress posted:In a country that practices conscription, "youths in their twenties" and "soldiers" are just about synonyms.  No, it's not. You have a terrible understanding of LOAC.
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Jan 9, 2017 03:47
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More details have been released about the Bibi-Mozes alleged bribery scandal - http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.763704 Brief summary: there are two recordings of Bibi and Mozes, one from 2009 which seems to be the more explicit one and another from 2014, allegedly the first one is of a four hour meeting that was arranged by Bibi in which he and Mozes are negotiating a tit for tat in which Mozes offers more favorable coverage by the Yediot group in turn for Netanyahu passing a bill that bans the distribution of free daily newspapers. One aspect of this is that whatever they discussed it apparently never came to fruition as Israel Hayom is still distributed for free (which costs Sheldon Edelson roughly 30 million dollars a year) and the Yediot group hasn't been favorable towards Netanyahu at all. Still, Israeli law is rather inclusive in its coverage of bribery charges and it considers attempted bribery to be the equivalent of one that actually panned out, and it's obviously a felony both for the initiator as well as for the recipient (though I say it's rather unclear who is whom in this case). And for the added deliciousness, the recordings were actually made and kept by Netanyahu, they were apparently uncovered during the course of a different investigation involving sexual harassment charges against one of his staff members.
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Jan 10, 2017 22:57
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emanresu tnuocca posted:And for the added deliciousness, the recordings were actually made and kept by Netanyahu, they were apparently uncovered during the course of a different investigation involving sexual harassment charges against one of his staff members. I get the feeling that he thinks he's kinda untouchable, drat
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Jan 10, 2017 23:19
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Wait so he pulled a Nixon? Of course he did.
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Jan 11, 2017 05:28
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Apparently he also tried to pass a law that bans recording conversations unless both parties agree some time after the first negotiations.
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Jan 11, 2017 07:42
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What a scummy piece of poo poo.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:43
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    (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 12, 2017 06:45
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http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.764999 More quotes from the Bibi-Mozes tapes, I could start picking highlights but it's honestly pretty much all a highlight, there's also a strong implication in there that the whole deal fell apart because Adelson told Bibi to gently caress off.
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Jan 15, 2017 09:44
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emanresu tnuocca posted:http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.764999 How is Channel 2 doing all this when they're owned by Yedioth Ahronoth in the first place.
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Jan 15, 2017 15:13
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Svartvit posted:How is Channel 2 doing all this when they're owned by Yedioth Ahronoth in the first place. Yediot is also reporting heavily on this, It's a part of their damage control strategy I think, they figured out that unless they tackle this whole thing as objectively as possible they'll pretty much ruin whatever shreds of credibility they're still holding on to after this debacle.
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Jan 15, 2017 15:19
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Fun times at the Netanyahu household, his firstborn son Yair is now being questioned by the police on a case unrelated to the Mozes scandal; TL;DR: Yair was allegedly an intermediary between Australian billionaire James Packer and Bibi who gave Yair gifts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. quote:Yair Netanyahu, the son of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, is being questioned Tuesday in connection with the so-called Case 1000, involving suspicions that the Netanyahu family received perks from wealthy businessmen. Israel Police's Lahav 433 fraud investigation unit is questioning the younger Netanyahu under caution, meaning he could be considered a suspect in committing a crime.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:35
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I.N.R.I posted:(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 17, 2017 17:42
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So this seems like a pretty big deal. Fatah and Hamas met in Moscow and agreed to form a unity government. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/fatah-hamas-form-unity-government-170118031339203.html
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Jan 18, 2017 05:02
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Sinteres posted:So this seems like a pretty big deal. Fatah and Hamas met in Moscow and agreed to form a unity government. Here's hoping it lasts longer than the 2014 one.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:06
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Sinteres posted:So this seems like a pretty big deal. Fatah and Hamas met in Moscow and agreed to form a unity government.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:30
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FlamingLiberal posted:This will probably lead to Bibi and Co trying to claim that further Israeli oppression is the result of Fatah working with Hamas again. Yeah. It's hard for me to get excited about anything that gives Hamas a platform, and it seems like a risky move for the PA, but honestly I don't think Israel has given them much choice since the status quo is loving horrible.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:33
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Sinteres posted:Yeah. It's hard for me to get excited about anything that gives Hamas a platform, and it seems like a risky move for the PA, but honestly I don't think Israel has given them much choice since the status quo is loving horrible. They could stick to non-violent protests and hope their Israeli oppressors have a change of heart.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:37
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Argas posted:They could stick to non-violent protests and hope their Israeli oppressors have a change of heart. That was Tom Clancy's genius idea for how Palestinians could get Jerusalem declared an international city protected by the Vatican's Swiss Guard.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:39
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Sinteres posted:Yeah. It's hard for me to get excited about anything that gives Hamas a platform, and it seems like a risky move for the PA, but honestly I don't think Israel has given them much choice since the status quo is loving horrible.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:42
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Avshalom posted:completely unjust it was just a funny picture
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Jan 18, 2017 07:04
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Argas posted:They could stick to non-violent protests and hope their Israeli oppressors have a change of heart. Violent resistance and stabbing random Israelis don't seem to have moved the needle much either, so...
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Jan 18, 2017 07:25
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Dead Reckoning posted:Violent resistance and stabbing random Israelis don't seem to have moved the needle much either, so... Clearly the Palestinians don't deserve their own state until they suffer enough.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:27
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Dead Reckoning posted:Violent resistance and stabbing random Israelis don't seem to have moved the needle much either, so... It's a reaction to an impossible situation, not a solution.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:31
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Argas posted:Clearly the Palestinians don't deserve their own state until they suffer enough. I'm not seeing your point. You seemed to be saying that the Palestinians weren't getting what they want through non-violent resistance, so they should abandon it in favor of further violence. But Hamas' violent resistance has done nothing to improve the situation of Gaza, the Palestinians lack the means to impose a settlement on Israel through violence, and arguments about pointless violence as a symbolic gesture are all either absurd or disgusting once you drill down into them.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:32
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm not seeing your point. You seemed to be saying that the Palestinians weren't getting what they want through non-violent resistance, so they should abandon it in favor of further violence. But Hamas' violent resistance has done nothing to improve the situation of Gaza, the Palestinians lack the means to impose a settlement on Israel through violence, and arguments about pointless violence as a symbolic gesture are all either absurd or disgusting once you drill down into them. Palestine has had a prominent non-violent movement for about a billion years. The usual Israeli response is to test run various population control devices on them and nothing more. I think that's what he/she was referring to.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:42
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm not seeing your point. You seemed to be saying that the Palestinians weren't getting what they want through non-violent resistance, so they should abandon it in favor of further violence. But Hamas' violent resistance has done nothing to improve the situation of Gaza, the Palestinians lack the means to impose a settlement on Israel through violence, and arguments about pointless violence as a symbolic gesture are all either absurd or disgusting once you drill down into them. Individual Palestinians are turning to random attacks on things that look like targets because that's what happens when people are put into an intolerable situation with no way of resolving the deadlock. It's not a strategic decision that aims at achieving anything, no matter what Hamas of all loving people claim. It's a natural human reaction, but the question you should be asking is, what is it that's making normal everyday people act like this.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:44
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Friendly Humour posted:Individual Palestinians are turning to random attacks on things that look like targets because that's what happens when people are put into an intolerable situation with no way of resolving the deadlock. It's not a strategic decision that aims at achieving anything, no matter what Hamas of all loving people claim. It's a natural human reaction, but the question you should be asking is, what is it that's making normal everyday people act like this. Is the rest of your post trying to argue that oppressed people lack agency, that they shouldn't have accountability, or something else entirely?
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Jan 18, 2017 07:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:Odd how most of the things that look like targets to the Palestinians carrying out these attacks are random civilians minding their own business. That's because the Palestenians aren't actually deep strategic thinkers picking out appropriate targets based on internationally acceptable standards of warfare. They just people, like you and me. They all know that they're going to die no matter what target they choose, and I suspect a lot of the attacks are people just snapping and saying "gently caress you, I quit". Agency or accountability sure, you can hold them both if you want to. But you shouldn't expect this not to happen as consequences for the situation that Israeli government has but them into. There is no justice here, but there is causality.
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Jan 18, 2017 08:05
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Dead Reckoning posted:Is the rest of your post trying to argue that oppressed people lack agency, that they shouldn't have accountability, or something else entirely? What agency do the Palestinians have in effect? If they do something, the Israeli oppress them. If they do something else, the Israeli oppress them. If they don't do anything, the Israeli oppress them. Regardless of what the Palestinians do or don't do, the result is the same: more Israeli oppression; cheered by Western governments with cries of "Israel has the right to protect itself (Palestine doesn't)", "Israel has the right to exist (Palestine doesn't)", "violence against Israeli is unjustifiable (violence against Palestinians isn't)" and so on. The only thing Palestinians are allowed to do is to die; so it's not surprising some try to take some of their oppressors on their way out. Israel should try to stop oppressing Palestinians for a change, and things would end up being better for them.
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Jan 18, 2017 08:15
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Dead Reckoning posted:Odd how most of the things that look like targets to the Palestinians carrying out these attacks are random civilians minding their own business. Castle Doctrine
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Jan 18, 2017 08:21
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Some quotes from MLK: “I contend that the cry of "Black Power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years." - Interview with Mike Wallace, 1966 "But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." - "The Other America." 1968
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Jan 18, 2017 08:25
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Friendly Humour posted:That's because the Palestenians aren't actually deep strategic thinkers picking out appropriate targets based on internationally acceptable standards of warfare. They just people, like you and me. They all know that they're going to die no matter what target they choose, and I suspect a lot of the attacks are people just snapping and saying "gently caress you, I quit". Agency or accountability sure, you can hold them both if you want to. But you shouldn't expect this not to happen as consequences for the situation that Israeli government has but them into. There is no justice here, but there is causality. Cat Mattress posted:What agency do the Palestinians have in effect? If they do something, the Israeli oppress them. If they do something else, the Israeli oppress them. If they don't do anything, the Israeli oppress them. Cranappleberry posted:I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard.
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Jan 18, 2017 09:16
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Yes because it is the bloodthirsty nature of the vile Palestinians that make them unique in their pursuit of singular, inorganized attacks on the civillian elements of their occupiers. No other oppressed group in history had this phenomenon. The attacks start and end with tragedy but are the explicit loving result of a seemingly hopeless situation in which one side has all the political, military and economic power to correct these myriad wrongs but absolutely refuses to do so. Dead Reckoning posted:You're referring to Israeli agency, which is exactly the issue I was pointing out. No matter what Israel does, the Palestinians always have the option of not killing civilians. If you truly think that nothing the Palestinians do moves the needle on Israeli oppression, the only way your argument makes sense is if you think Israeli civilians deserve to be stabbed to death. This is an easy remark to make if you are completely agnostic of History. The I/P relationship doesnt have to be pristine and peachy to facilitate a peace deal. No peace treaty has ever been built on perfectly amicable terms. "Oh one of your civillians killed one of ours woops guess you as an entire people are not worthy of peace talk to you after the retaliatory bombing." Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 09:35
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Many of the attacks in this alleged third intifada have had the characteristics of a suicide-by-cop, in my opinion.
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Jan 18, 2017 09:46
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Dead Reckoning posted:Is the rest of your post trying to argue that oppressed people lack agency This is the generally accepted definition of oppression as I understand it
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Jan 18, 2017 09:49
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Dead Reckoning posted:You're referring to Israeli agency, which is exactly the issue I was pointing out. No matter what Israel does, the Palestinians always have the option of not killing civilians. If you truly think that nothing the Palestinians do moves the needle on Israeli oppression, the only way your argument makes sense is if you think Israeli civilians deserve to be stabbed to death. They deserve being stabbed as much as the Palestinians deserve being oppressed.
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Jan 18, 2017 09:56
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Pointing out the consequences of Israeli governnment policy of disenfranchisement and oppressive apartheid colonialism has nothing to do with agency. Israelis have no right to act surprised about any of this when it's the decades of State policy that has made ordinary people crack up and lash out. Say it's wrong all you want, it's still going to keep happening so long as nothing changes.
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Jan 18, 2017 09:58
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No matter what Palestinians do, the Israeli always have the option of not bombing schools and hospitals and refugee shelters and civilian housing and water treatment plants, and of not worshiping mass-murderers like Baruch Goldstein, and of not systematically destroying Palestinian livelihood by tearing apart orchards, building walls between farm and farmland, spraying herbicides on crops, stealing Palestinian tax money, and blockading them to deny them any sort of foreign trade. If we were talking about, say, North Korea, it'd be something else. North Koreans don't have much choice in what their country does. But Israeli is a democracy (the only democracy in the middle east, a light unto nations) and therefore the Israeli policies of constant, brutal, relentless oppression are the will of the Israeli people and therefore Israeli citizens are fully responsible for the treatment of Palestinians. What is happening is what they want to happen. Israel is what the Israeli want it to be -- and they want it to be a brutal Apartheid state built on racism and religious fundamentalism.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:16
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Imagine being under siege for years. Your home is often being attacked, you often hear buildings explode, you see your friends and family gunned down in the streets. This goes on for years, decades even. There is almost never a period longer than a few months where there is peace. You don't feel secure. Even when there is no bombing or gunfire, you are on edge because it can happen again at any time. Every few weeks more crackdowns and more deaths. Eventually this heightened awareness, this fear that something is going to happen is the only state of mind you know. You start to lose your identity, pieces of yourself. You aren't allowed to even provide for yourself, cannot even grow an olive tree to eat. Everything you need to live comes from the people who shoot at you, who bomb you, who shoot children playing on the beach and who keep you from being free. You are a prisoner. Even if you are innocent you are a prisoner forced to live in poverty under violent oppression. Nothing in the years you have been alive has changed this. There is no help coming. At some point you will act out. Sure you can pretend like you are better, maybe you are, that if you were in that situation you wouldn't do something morally wrong or stupid or both. But lets be realistic here some people are going to act out violently in these conditions. They are tired, scared and angry beyond what most people have ever experienced.. They do not believe the other side is acting in good faith (and in keeping innocents imprisoned they aren't). No one denies murder of innocent people is wrong. Its wrong. An individual person/civilian should not be a target because of the crimes their government commits. Similarly, the majority of Palestinians in Gaza do not deserve to be imprisoned and oppressed for the actions of a few. The innocent Israelis killed are victims of both a desperate prisoner looking to lash out and Israel's government, Likud.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:51
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