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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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Pissflaps posted:She laid down a line that's now been crossed and her rhetoric is moving away from demanding another referendum.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:21
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| # ? May 10, 2024 17:42 |
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May's speech made it clear that the UK will not retain single market membership. The Westminster vote will come at the very end of Article 50 negotiations. that'll be leaving it too late for Scotland to have a referendum - if granted - and then negotiate independence then attempt to retain EU membership.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:24
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But also that the UK will have the greatest possible access to it, which presumably means arguing for tariff free access, which is what the SNP want (it being one of their 5 key interests they set out last year). Like I said, her speech is deliberately contradictory and unclear on details to push them into making a kneejerk decision.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:29
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From those five key interests:quote:Influence. Scotland must be able to shape the rules of the single market as well as abiding by them. You don't 'shape the rules' with any sort of access. You have to be a member. Sturgeon is rowing back from demanding a referendum -and you're doing the same. It's a bottle job.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:32
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Pissflaps posted:From those five key interests: And yet May did not categorically rule out an associate membership for Scotland or any of the proposals set out by the Scottish Government in their Brexit paper, so it's still not good enough to call for another referendum yet. It still has to wait until the vote in Westminster to trigger Article 50 before they can do so because of the reasons I've already stated. There has to be absolutely no chance of those criteria being met, even a infinitesimal chance will be good enough to scupper their narrative.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:49
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Yes she did. She said there will be a deal for the whole United Kingdom. There will be no special arrangements for Scotland or any other part of the UK. Going by your timetable there is no chance for Scotland to have a seamless transition from uk membership to eu membership: which is supposed to be one of indyref2's key selling points.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:54
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Pissflaps posted:Yes she did. She said there will be a deal for the whole United Kingdom. There will be no special arrangements for Scotland or any other part of the UK. A "Brexit that works for the whole United Kingdom" does not necessarily mean the same deal across the United Kingdom. See, you're falling into the trap too Pissflaps, you're assuming things are being said when they're actually not.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:11
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So you read this:quote:A stronger Britain demands that we do something else - strengthen the precious union between the four nations of the United Kingdom. And your take is that Scotland is going to get a different deal to the rest of the UK? That's bonkers.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:14
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Pissflaps posted:And your take is that Scotland is going to get a different deal to the rest of the UK? You're missing the point. Of course Scotland isn't going to get a different deal. You know that, I know that, May and Sturgeon know that too. But until it is categorically written down that "Scotland is not going to get different deal and is going to get the hard Tory Brexit whether they like it or not" in those exact words, that remote possibility is still technically there. Hence: quote:We have already received a paper from the Scottish Government, and look forward to receiving a paper from the Welsh Government shortly. Both papers will be considered as part of this important process Until that paper is reviewed and inevitably rejected, the SNP have to wait.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:26
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So you're saying that Sturgeon is looking for reasons to not call a referendum? If everyone now knows there will be no special deal than that window of 'looking like we'll try to make Brexit work' has passed. It's not fooling anybody. Tell me how that differs to my description of this as a bottle job.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:28
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Pissflaps posted:So you're saying that Sturgeon is looking for reasons to not call a referendum? It's not about looking for reasons not to, it's that those reasons exist at all. As I have said many, many times now, it's about the narrative. There cannot be even the slightest chance of the SNP getting what they want out of Brexit, because though everybody knows that there isn't, the Unionists will still argue that there was and a "premature" declaration of a new independence referendum will give them the ammunition that they need to support their narrative. That will only change with the vote for Article 50 to be triggered (with the Tories and Labour voting for it) because that truly is the point of no return.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:43
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First of all apologies: I thought by Westminster vote you meant the one announced today on the terms of Brexit, not the article 50 vote. As for the narrative that's my whole point. Events are moving on and everyone can now see that the SNP's demands won't be met. For a narrative to work people have to buy the story and i don't think it's going to wash any longer.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:49
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Pissflaps posted:First of all apologies: I thought by Westminster vote you meant the one announced today on the terms of Brexit, not the article 50 vote. No worries, I should have been clearer on which I meant at the outset. quote:As for the narrative that's my whole point. Events are moving on and everyone can now see that the SNP's demands won't be met. For a narrative to work people have to buy the story and i don't think it's going to wash any longer. I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. In fact, I would say the fact that they're keeping going is actually the key to the SNP's narrative: they can reasonably argue that they went above and beyond, trying to make this situation work while remaining in the UK despite their party's whole purpose being independence and despite it looking increasingly obvious that it wasn't going to happen, only resorting to another independence referendum when any chance of staying in the UK and even getting one of the compromise deals they offered was completely gone. It's the best counter-argument they could ever get to "not respecting the 2014 result".
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Jan 17, 2017 18:03
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baronvonsabre posted:No worries, I should have been clearer on which I meant at the outset. Yeah absolutely. Sturgeon is the only major party leader who has been handling this whole disaster competently. She obviously has her eye on independence but the right thing to do, regardless of your views on independence, is to fight hard for single market membership and freedom of movement. That Labour aren't doing the same, and are instead pandering to xenophobes, is depressing.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:18
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A couple of pages/weeks ago there was a bit of chat about baby boxes and the thread consensus seemed to be split between, more or less, "they're good and have great outcomes" and "it's an ok idea but it's just a box of stuff." Both are fairly accurate summations of the ways baby boxes have been presented (not just by the Scottish Government), but it's worth stressing that the whole idea has been distorted by the simplicity of a box, when scheme in Finland that this all stems from is much broader. The box itself has become fetishised as the source of all the good outcomes and the entire focus of the policy, partly though good intentions, partly because it seems like a simple (and relatively cheap) idea, and partly through opportunistic marketing. Personally, I think it's a decent idea even if it's literally just a box of stuff, but then the claims made for it need to be extremely cautious. Without wanting to smother a good idea at a nascent stage with excess doubt, it bears repeating that there is a new and growing industry promoting this thing which is focused on selling a simple idea and profiting from public expenditure, and whose use of evidence is sketchy at best, and purposely misleading at worse. For anyone interested, here's an excellent blog post from a Scottish perspective which does a wide-ranging survey of the various similar projects (both large and small) around the world, providing a very thorough overview of the international context. I was surprised at how much influence a BBC report appears to have had, both in terms of public engagement and at a policy level. The post highlights how heavily commodified the industry has become in a very short space of time, with private firms (in particular the Baby Box Company) helping to push the idea and interest among public agencies. Along with this, the article also notes that virtually all these schemes, besides the long-standing Finnish one, are very new, and warns about the lack of evidence (especially regarding effect on infant mortality) and the distorting effects of marketing e.g.: quote:But the strength of Cribs for Kids’ scepticism about boxes [see here: http://www.cribsforkids.org/packnplayvscardboardbox], and the detailed way they make their case, bears including here, not least because it’s the only reference I’ve seen anywhere to anyone doing a literature review about the Finnish case: none of the references I’ve seen to studies/proof/evidence of the boxes’ effects have provided any links or references, and attempts of my own to locate research on the Finnish box scheme also drew a blank. When reports say that the Finnish box scheme” is credited with” reducing deaths, which is a very common phrasing, they never say who is doing the crediting. Outside of Finland, New Zealand appears to have the best established and most-researched model, having started in 2006 and targeted at Maori communities before being expanded to also cover babies at increased risk of accidental suffocation, and which seems likely to expand again, albeit still targeted rather than universally provided. Notably, the proponents of this scheme, including the box providers, seem to consciously de-prioritise the “baby box” itself as merely a minor part of a wider initiative. The whole article is excellent and I strongly urge you to read it all, but key conclusions are really to keep a healthy scepticism about the claims made about baby boxes’ efficacy and that a wider perinatal support programme is absolutely vital for any good outcomes: quote:[Scotland is] less strong than others on the box as a means to engaging people with education and human support. The publicity has been very much about “the box”. Most recently there’s been some reference to there being wider support alongside, but what this means remains vague, compared to other places. There’s nothing here like the detailed safe sleep programme developed to go with the Pepi Pods [in New Zealand] or the Alberta mentoring scheme developed to go with the box pilot there. The wider support part still comes across as an afterthought here: it’s not clear that the £7m budget assigned includes anything for developing new safe sleeping programmes or other new materials to support new parents. We’re also unusual in not tying receipt of the box (as far as I can tell) to parents engaging with services in any particular way.” Niric fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 11:28
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Just to check, is anyone going into Glasgow today for the Trump protest?
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Jan 20, 2017 16:19
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That post was very interesting thank you Niric.
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Jan 20, 2017 16:25
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Venomous posted:Just to check, is anyone going into Glasgow today for the Trump protest? I'd rather we were having protests against Theresa May but apparently she's not quite so transparently deplorable so nobody seems bothered
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Jan 20, 2017 16:26
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This was super interesting, thanks for posting it.Venomous posted:Just to check, is anyone going into Glasgow today for the Trump protest? Is that where the "build bridges not walls banner" on the pedestrian suspension bridge over the Clyde came from ?
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Jan 20, 2017 17:08
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Venomous posted:Just to check, is anyone going into Glasgow today for the Trump protest? I really don't get the point in people protesting the president of another country forkboy84 posted:I'd rather we were having protests against Theresa May but apparently she's not quite so transparently deplorable so nobody seems bothered 
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Jan 20, 2017 17:20
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forkboy84 posted:I'd rather we were having protests against Theresa May but apparently she's not quite so transparently deplorable so nobody seems bothered The sad part is if there was a GE tomorrow I think she'd probably win with an increased majority, new politics indeed. You don't have to be good, just better than the next guy. Also how did this happen? https://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=135937 Coohoolin isn't even Scottish
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Jan 20, 2017 17:32
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That's quite the red texting right there
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Jan 20, 2017 17:40
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Aramoro posted:The sad part is if there was a GE tomorrow I think she'd probably win with an increased majority, new politics indeed. You don't have to be good, just better than the next guy. Coohoolin is Scottish if he wants to be. He lives here. No ethnic nationalism here. But yeah, May is a terrible PM who is hopelessly out of her depth but unfortunately the leader of Labour is too polite to be much of a fire breathing populist outsider & too unpopular among his own MPs to seem like someone who can lead the party, and the Liberals just want to be the junior party in a coalition again, so basically Theresa May is getting a free pass & it's really bad. Still don't think a Liz Kendall Labour Party would be doing much better mind.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:41
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Aramoro posted:The sad part is if there was a GE tomorrow I think she'd probably win with an increased majority, new politics indeed. You don't have to be good, just better than the next guy. Rakosi has had that red text for an eternity.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:49
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He got real mad about me being an immigrant and wanting to, you know, assimilate.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:55
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Coohoolin posted:He got real mad about me being an immigrant and wanting to, you know, assimilate. When you're a star, they let you do that.
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Jan 23, 2017 08:46
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working mom posted:I really don't get the point in people protesting the president of another country To make clear any attempt at emulating their policies here will be met by fierce resistance, and to show solidarity with women affected by those policies? It seems fairly clear cut to me.
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Jan 23, 2017 15:21
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vegetables posted:To make clear any attempt at emulating their policies here will be met by fierce resistance, and to show solidarity with women affected by those policies? It seems fairly clear cut to me. That and hes kicking around the political football of womens healthcare in foreign aid funding that they like to do. So he does directly affect people in other countries.
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Jan 25, 2017 09:42
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Address to the Trump Oh Thou! Whatever title suits thee- The Donald, President or Numptie- Wha in yon Whitehouse clean and shiny, You tweet dispatches, And wave those tiny hands so lightly, To scauld poor wretches! I’ve heard my rev’rend graunie say, In Aberdeen ye like to stray; Or, on your windswept golf course play, And shout at neighbours, Ye fright the weary SNP, Wi fearsome havers. But mind you weel, auld Donald John, In four short years, your time is gone! Ye albins might- I dinna ken- Still hae a course; So mind the schemes of mice an’ men An’ fear the worst.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:09
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That doesn't scan.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:12
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Pissflaps posted:That doesn't scan. It's Scots poetry. It doesn't have to scan.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:21
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The only good Scots poet is William McGonagall.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:21
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Coohoolin posted:Address to the Trump is this written in Alemannic?
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Jan 25, 2017 19:22
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That's was today's lesson in the Scots cringe
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Jan 25, 2017 19:31
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forkboy84 posted:The only good Scots poet is William McGonagall. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfjhpw_william-mcgonagall-tay-bridge-disaster-billy-connolly_creation 
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Jan 25, 2017 19:50
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gently caress y'all, Burns is cool and good. Whatever that Trump poem was was pish though.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:01
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bitterandtwisted posted:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfjhpw_william-mcgonagall-tay-bridge-disaster-billy-connolly_creation The most proletarian poet.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:02
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TomViolence posted:gently caress y'all, Burns is cool and good. Whatever that Trump poem was was pish though. Is your Wallace & Gromit slash fiction written in Scots ?
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Jan 25, 2017 20:03
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jre posted:Is your Wallace & Gromit slash fiction written in Scots ? No, Gaelic. Well, whichever regional Scottish language winds this self-loathing thread up the most, take your pick.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:04
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| # ? May 10, 2024 17:42 |
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TomViolence posted:gently caress y'all, Burns is cool and good. Whatever that Trump poem was was pish though. agree on both counts
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Jan 25, 2017 20:05
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