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throw to first drat IT posted:Now, the word 'colonization' has some slight negative imaginary associated with it, which we can probably blame on the Belgians. Luckily, there's no need to let them be part of whole thing this time, so things are already looking up. This guy is genuinely right: ChainsawCharlie posted:Too late,China already beat us to it. China saw the west starving Africa post-independence of capital and went "gently caress yeah get in on that." Cucked by the Orient, Europe. 
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Jan 17, 2017 01:27
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Mikl posted:If there's one bright side to the rise of populism, it's that the next few years will be extremely entertaining. We're all on the train. This is the bit people keep forgetting. None of us are going to get to watch from afar.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:33
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Tesseraction posted:This guy is genuinely right: except china is actively shooting itself in the foot by refusing to actually hire Africans to do the labour they need, they import Chinese laborours, which means that long time friendship and sense of benefits for Africans from Chinese investments means jack poo poo. The reason why America has allies who are somewhat reliable is that they've made those economies buy into their system and they hire from the locals to do their work. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 01:34
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Regarde Aduck posted:We're all on the train. This is the bit people keep forgetting. None of us are going to get to watch from afar. Japan? Japan maybe.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:37
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Al-Saqr posted:except china is actively shooting itself in the foot by refusing to actually hire Africans to do the labour they need, they import Chinese laborours, which means that long time friendship and sense of benefits for Africans from Chinese investments means jack poo poo. The reason why America has allies who are somewhat reliable is that they've made those economies buy into their system and they hire from the locals to do their work. China doesnt give a poo poo about public opinion,they just fund and bribe the politicians whose job it is to get poo poo done.the politicians them use that money to get elected.also ,they build infrastructure there instead of encouraging Nike and Levi to build sweat shops in those countries.they don't want cheap labour,they want raw materials. Look at Mozambique to see the template of China's intervention in Africa.
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Jan 17, 2017 02:33
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Al-Saqr posted:except china is actively shooting itself in the foot by refusing to actually hire Africans to do the labour they need, they import Chinese laborours, which means that long time friendship and sense of benefits for Africans from Chinese investments means jack poo poo. The reason why America has allies who are somewhat reliable is that they've made those economies buy into their system and they hire from the locals to do their work. Indeed. It also eliminates the prospect of using these investment projects as tools for dispensing patronage. By only using imported labour, China misses out on the opportunity to build up a large pool of national workers/managers who have been trained/employed by China, and who will be very favourably disposed toward it in future (a number of who may eventually end up in government). Similarly, they are missing out on the opportunity to curry favour with government officials by providing opportunities and cushy middle-management positions for their friends and families. Its a penny-wise/pound-foolish approach: China isn't effectively using its soft power to its full extent yet. Western donors have got this nailed down - running countless training workshops (often with generous per diem allowances), and educational opportunities/cushy postings in international organisations for officials, or funding astroturf NGOs to employ their friends/families, etc. Less cynically though, as Tesseraction says, anything that provides much needed infrastructure investment is welcome, particularly given that traditional donors have heavily moved away from this area in recent decades.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:11
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Hashtag PS debates.
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Jan 19, 2017 00:24
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If I'm reading those tag clouds right, the original corpus would seem to be kinda... devoid of meaning. Which is not surprising. Every time I read the text of UK politician speeches it's like they're dancing around every issue in the most roundabout way possible.
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Jan 19, 2017 00:47
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So the only guy who has words with actual meaning above text size 6 is Benoit Hamon, with basically "free money" and "weed". Well at least that's a program I can get behind.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:15
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legal weed to enjoy the apocalypse to the fullest Thankfully, Nothing matters.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:22
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Pochoclo posted:If I'm reading those tag clouds right, the original corpus would seem to be kinda... devoid of meaning. Which is not surprising. Every time I read the text of UK politician speeches it's like they're dancing around every issue in the most roundabout way possible.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:26
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Pochoclo posted:If I'm reading those tag clouds right, the original corpus would seem to be kinda... devoid of meaning. Which is not surprising. Every time I read the text of UK politician speeches it's like they're dancing around every issue in the most roundabout way possible. It's a poll of people who watched the debate asking them which policy proposal they'd attribute to each of them. The main answers are "none" and "nothing", which proves they did watch the debate.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:44
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https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/822206645291859971 https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/822206513834061824 Haha - first Juppé, now Valls. The curse of the early frontrunner strikes again!
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Jan 19, 2017 23:24
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I dare not hope.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:44
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Valls got twatted in the face during the week as well
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Jan 20, 2017 00:00
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So far, I do not hate Hamon. How long will it last?
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Jan 20, 2017 00:08
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Cat Mattress posted:So far, I do not hate Hamon. How long will it last? If he wins the general, a couple months after the election. If he doesn't, you'll never really care enough about it.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:03
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A race to 5th place...
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Jan 20, 2017 02:15
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There is only one that can pummel both la Mélenche and le Macron, and that person is Montebourg.
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Jan 20, 2017 09:34
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:There is only one that can pummel both la Mélenche and le Macron, and that person is Montebourg. *indulgent smile*
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Jan 20, 2017 09:47
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Cat Mattress posted:So far, I do not hate Hamon. How long will it last? I thought he was okay at first too but it lasted three seconds: I remembered that he and Montebourg are responsible for the ascension of Valls to the position of prime minister, and that he did nothing against the labor reform as a député. He may think of himself as a frondeur, but he's still a typical careerist. If he were anything else he wouldn't be in this party.
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Jan 20, 2017 09:58
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Looking at the polling, it is very much still a toss-up with Valls still a favorite, and if anything Montebourg is slipping behind. If anything I think Fillon is very much the safe bet all things considered.
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Jan 20, 2017 11:39
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x420ReDdIT_Br0nYx posted:He may think of himself as a frondeur, but he's still a typical careerist. If he were anything else he wouldn't be in this party. After the Valls/Macron tag team torpedoed any semblance of leftism under Hollande, I'd think that the careerist smart move would be to leave that sinking ship that is called PS. I guess the careerists that stay are too dumb to see the writing on the wall.
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Jan 20, 2017 12:26
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HAMON OVERDRIVE
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Jan 20, 2017 12:29
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FFA try and sell me on Mélenchon please. Disclaimer: I've read the Seven Point Summary Document on the jlm2017 website (whioch is very vague and self-contradictory)and let's say I care first and foremost about his idea on The EU and Europe in general.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:19
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:FFA try and sell me on Mélenchon please. I for one don't understand why he didn't run in the left primary given that he outpolls the other candidates outright in the GE first round surely he would've walked it and stand a much better chance in the general?
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Jan 21, 2017 00:09
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I for one don't understand why he didn't run in the left primary given that he outpolls the other candidates outright in the GE first round surely he would've walked it and stand a much better chance in the general? For the same reason he didn't run in the Républicains primary: his ideas are completely opposed to the Parti Socialiste's ideas. He's got next to nothing in common with the likes of Valls, Peillon, Or Hamon. Why would he compete with them? Pinch Me Im Meming posted:FFA try and sell me on Mélenchon please. Yeah the website is mediocre when it comes to summarizing the policy points, because the idea has always been to sell the programme and not make it available for free. What you've got there is a working document which is the basis upon which thousands of people contributed in order to produce L'Avenir en Commun. I'm on vacation with friends so I don't have a copy of the programme with me (but you can go buy one! Only 3 euros. Or I could send one to you, pm me an address. Or maybe it's on t411), so here's a quick summary. Plan A is to try to spearhead a change of economic and fiscal policy at the European level, most notably in order to get rid of the 3% rule, the posted workers directive, the shitass monetary policy, reject CETA and leave NATO. Basically to reject the market-based approach to the EU. Plan B is to simply exit the EU. I could direct you to watch a speech or something but IIRC there has not been a speech dedicated solely to Europe so far. There's some interesting stuff in his Revue de la Semaine #10. I'll get back to you on monday, all right? Flowers For Algeria fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 09:49
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Flowers For Algeria posted:For the same reason he didn't run in the Républicains primary: his ideas are completely opposed to the Parti Socialiste's ideas. He's got next to nothing in common with the likes of Valls, Peillon, Or Hamon. Why would he compete with them? Ok, good. What's the tipping point from plan A to plan B? What's the leverage vis-à-vis the rest of the EU? i.e. what do they get in exchange for abandoning the policies you mentioned?
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Jan 21, 2017 11:11
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So far they get the warm thanks of President Mélenchon. Then again, Mélenchon also said that as soon as he is elected he wants to call for a new constitution where there is no more president. Also, since he wants there to be plenty of referendums (which will be binding), there's always the chance that after the negociations the vote fails, which would... I don't know? Call for new negociations? Shift from plan A to plan B? Mean nothing changes?
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Jan 21, 2017 12:29
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Ok, good. Yeah, Europe is not really my focus, so I can't tell you any more without literature. I'd say that the threat of France leaving the EU is some pretty hefty leverage, though. Shazback posted:So far they get the warm thanks of President Mélenchon. It's more complicated than that. There'd be a referendum to call for a constituant assembly. It wouldn't be an instantaneous process, and there is nothing in the programme about what the end result would look like, because the entire Constitution would be the product of the assembly's work. There could very well be a president of some sort in the end.
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Jan 21, 2017 13:22
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Flowers For Algeria posted:and leave NATO Fully leave NATO, or just leave the integrated command? If he wants to completely leave NATO he should ask the CEMs about it first. They might have a few interesting things to tell him about the ability of the French military to function and fulfill its various engagements (assistance to various African nations, defense of the the world's biggest EEZ, the ongoing OPEX without logistical assistance from NATO. Unless he wants to increase defense spending to like 15% of GDP for a few years so as to procure all the airlift and aerial tankers and ships we'll need to have ourselves? If we're not in NATO we'll need to have three aircraft carriers, not one, so as to have permanence à la mer. We have only one and it's going to spend pretty much all this year and a good chunk of the next in docks for a lengthy maintenance operation. Each carrier will need a battle group with a couple frigates for anti-air and anti-submarine defense, an attack sub, and a logistics ship; plus of course a bunch of additional aircraft because the aeronavale is only sized for one carrier at the moment. Most metropolitan French don't have any appreciation for the sheer extent of France's maritime territory and what that means for the logistics required to protect it from pilferers. Here's a map showing just one small part of it over a map of Europe.  To cover all that territory and prevent stuff such as illegal fishing, we've got a surveillance frigate and a multifunction tugboat. Weeeeee! You might say that NATO is there only for protection of European holdings. True, but that's the protection part. The "logistic assistance" part has no geographic limitation. Stuff like Operation Serval and others have happened with logistical help from NATO allies, including US tankers and British airlift. The French military forces simply cannot function without NATO, and that was true even back when we weren't in the integrated command. For this reason and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, leaving NATO would be completely loving stupid for the time being. It's something that might be entertained after getting a true European Union Collective Defense system in place that could serve as a replacement, or after spending a ton of money duplicating all the functionality that are commonalized at the moment. Thanks to Trump and Brexit we might have a chance at the former but it'll take a lot of time; the latter would be impossible without sending all the austerian beancounters to the guillotine first.
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Jan 21, 2017 15:33
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Cat Mattress posted:Bunch of interesting stuff. About these 15%, I'm not going to ask you where the figure comes from but I suppose the money could also come from the rest of the EU. Because now that's the UK is gone, what stands between the slavic hordes and our fair maidens but the French Army and a couple more-or-less drunk Finns? Yeah, thread. Pay up or die, realpolitik style.
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Jan 21, 2017 17:41
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http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/21/europe/turkey-parliament-constitution-change/ Erdork's about to become a dictator for life. No worries tho, we'll keep shoveling billions to him so that he can shovel immigrants to camps. Because that's easier than implementing a sane refugee policy.
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Jan 21, 2017 17:49
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:About these 15%, I'm not going to ask you where the figure comes from but I suppose the money could also come from the rest of the EU. Because now that's the UK is gone, what stands between the slavic hordes and our fair maidens but the French Army and a couple more-or-less drunk Finns? Just a reminder that Finland still has mandatory military service and a reserve of 900 000, and is not in NATO. Not really sure what point I'm making here, but figure it's something the rest of Europe might not remember.
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Jan 21, 2017 17:55
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doverhog posted:Just a reminder that Finland still has mandatory military service and a reserve of 900 000, and is not in NATO. Not really sure what point I'm making here, but figure it's something the rest of Europe might not remember. That's his point, I think - that the rest of the EU have useless armies.
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Jan 21, 2017 18:38
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throw to first drat IT posted:http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/21/europe/turkey-parliament-constitution-change/ How exactly is the EU going to stop him from doing that and what would this "sane" refugee policy look like? Re Clancy Chat about armies and stuff: As long as you don't have a sizable Russian minority (at least 30%-40%) there is no chance in hell that Russia can occupy your country in the 21th century. Look how hard it is in comparable backwards countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, not imagine an occupying army in Europe, not only is the terrain hell, the infrastructure will allow any resistance movement to inflict intolerable losses on the occupier. GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 19:23
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They're assholes but this is a simple and clear message everyone should get behind GaussianCopula posted:the infrastructure will allow any resistance movement to inflict intolerable losses on the occupier. Putin is insane though unpacked robinhood fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 20:58
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Cat Mattress posted:Fully leave NATO, or just leave the integrated command?. Leaving the integrated command for sure, leaving NATO probably. His reasoning for leaving NATO is that it aligns us on US interests, and that there is a tendency by the US and the EU to antagonize Russia, mainly by encroaching in its sphere of influence. Mélenchon, on the other hand, is very vocal about wanting peace, and sees France as a potential leader of some sort of unaligned coalition - think Non-Aligned Movement. He's adamant that there is a risk of global war, in the long run, potentially involving Russia, China and/or the US/NATO, and he wants out. Trump's rhetoric about the US leaving NATO as well could change some of his policy positions regarding NATO, but so far Mélenchon clearly perceives the EU and any attempt at an integrated EU military as a proxy for American power and interventionism. He points to the recent deployment of troops in Eastern Europe as proof that the West is in a logic of saber-rattling that is more dangerous than it is productive. I haven't heard him speak about our ability to defend French interests worldwide. Certainly he is an anti-interventionist, so it's likely that he wouldn't start new interventions in Mali, Centrafrique, Syria, Libya, or wherever the latest crisis is taking place. What you are saying about the need for a French navy is very interesting, though, and a lot of his focus has been on developing a naval sector in our economy. I'll run it by a friend working in his campaign. Who knows - maybe rebuilding a navy could inject money our struggling naval yards and steel mills.
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Jan 21, 2017 21:42
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unpacked robinhood posted:They're assholes but this is a simple and clear message everyone should get behind Yeah, let's all go and get behind the white supremacist thugs. What could possibly go wrong? gently caress that. They can go eat poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2017 22:18
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unpacked robinhood posted:Putin is insane though Is he? He knew after observing American inaction in Syria that he could take the Crimea, because Obama would do nothing of consequence to stop him.
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Jan 21, 2017 22:51
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