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Exmond posted:I love how this thread is a cycle. I think we have had like 3-5 discussions about this. Yep, it's the old cycle between books, Jim you fucker finish Peace Talks already.
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Jan 8, 2017 10:29
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Most recently finished The Secrets of Drearcliff Grange School, which is a Kim Newman book which expands on a novella which originally appeared in one of the Diogenes Club short story collections. It's sort of part of the loosely-connected pulp universe he has (where they all seem like they take place in different versions of broadly the same setting, if that makes sense; I'm not sure what you call that). Harry Potter is the obvious point of comparison but it's more evocative of the English countryside boarding school adventure stories that were popular when my grandmother was a girl. There's a bit of Enid Blyton in it: schoolkids with unusual abilities forming secret clubs to investigate fiendish and mysterious happenings with secret codes and codenames while describing things as "just not cricket". I enjoyed it a lot and hope Newman revisits it, but there's one thing that's missing, namely lavish descriptions of food. You can't write this kind of pastiche and not include lavish descriptions of midnight feasts etc. That's practically what British children's literature is all about. It's no mystery that the one thing the most successful children's authors of the last century - Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, Brian Jacques, J. K. Rowling etc. - had in common was their ability to describe food. Anyway, since I started Anno Dracula last year, Newman has actually become a bit of a favourite author of mine. He's probably not exactly urban fantasy in the strictest sense of the term but he's close enough. Looking forward to the second of the two new Anno Dracula books coming out this year, which is set in 1999 in Tokyo and is called Daikaiju.
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Jan 8, 2017 13:05
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ConfusedUs posted:"Write what you know" is one of the cardinal rules of writing. It's clear that Jim only knows how to be a white straight dude. He's also said in an interview that this is why he's never introduced a major Muslim character or gotten Islamic mythology/religion involved in the series - he doesn't know much about it, doesn't know many if any Muslims who would be comfortable talking about it, and decided it would be better to not bring it up in the Dresden Files if he's not confident he can handle it tastefully and well.
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Jan 8, 2017 13:39
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Khizan posted:Everything I've heard about this series makes it sound like it's very obviously playing Diversity Bingo with the cast in a way that actually gets obnoxious. I read the first one. Yeah, kinda. I'm Russian, so I mostly found how blatant it was kinda amusing.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:31
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Cythereal posted:He's also said in an interview that this is why he's never introduced a major Muslim character or gotten Islamic mythology/religion involved in the series - he doesn't know much about it, doesn't know many if any Muslims who would be comfortable talking about it, and decided it would be better to not bring it up in the Dresden Files if he's not confident he can handle it tastefully and well. On one hand, I applaud him for not half-assing stuff like that and wanting to be respectful. On the other, isn't research kinda a thing writers are supposed to do? I mean, if he wanted to include a Muslim character (and if he doesn't, that's cool too, but if he did), how hard would it be to go to a freaking mosque and ask the imam a few questions? This is the same guy who decided to put his series in Chicago and proceeded to learn absolutely nothing about Chicago, so Butcher has kind of a track record of this stuff.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:34
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StonecutterJoe posted:On one hand, I applaud him for not half-assing stuff like that and wanting to be respectful. On the other, isn't research kinda a thing writers are supposed to do? I mean, if he wanted to include a Muslim character (and if he doesn't, that's cool too, but if he did), how hard would it be to go to a freaking mosque and ask the imam a few questions? This is the same guy who decided to put his series in Chicago and proceeded to learn absolutely nothing about Chicago, so Butcher has kind of a track record of this stuff. Research can only carry you so far. Jim tried to do some research for Chicago as he was writing Dresden Files. He talked to people, solicited pictures, information, etc, and he still got a lot wrong. There's a lot about a city you just aren't going to know unless you've got some kind of intimate knowledge. The same could be said about a culture. Unless he knew someone who would be willing to sit there and educate him, such a conversation would be... awkward. How would you distill your touchstones down to bullet-points for a stranger's story and do it effectively enough that it would resonate with others? Wouldn't that be weird for you? One reason I enjoy the hell out of Rivers of London are the little things that pop up with Peter, like when he talks about being from a "two-pot family". It was just a tiny detail that popped up once and never again, but it felt real.
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Jan 8, 2017 16:15
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I think talking to someone who's willing to answer honestly about their experiences is a great tool, but it's always just gonna be one person's experiences and trying to extrapolate that to say, all the POC in a given city is gonna be a trainwreck. That said I feel like the Faust books do a really good job with having POC, a gay couple, and women in the Main Cast that aren't tropes. I have only read three so far but it's the first UF series I've read in a while that feels like it really embodies the city and the people who live there and couldn't be set in Anywhere, USA. (e: or London. They're all in London. FFS.) mistaya fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 17:38
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Exmond posted:I love how this thread is a cycle. I think we have had like 3-5 discussions about this. 1) I didn't start it. 2) it's been years since the last book and there's been still no word on the next one. 3) There's been a drought of decent urban fantasy releases over these past few months. Not much else to talk about. mistaya posted:I think talking to someone who's willing to answer honestly about their experiences is a great tool, but it's always just gonna be one person's experiences and trying to extrapolate that to say, all the POC in a given city is gonna be a trainwreck.
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Jan 8, 2017 18:54
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Mars4523 posted:2) it's been years since the last book and there's been still no word on the next one. I mean...we know it's called Peace Talks and we got the first chapter. It's not like it's a complete mystery box.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:00
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Mars4523 posted:In my defense: Oh sorry I wasn't trying to be an rear end, just pointing out we usually have these conversations every few months while we wait for the next book  . It obviously interests some people in the thread so go and discuss it.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:31
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I guess there's a new book in that Incrementalists series by Steven Brust and Walter White's widow. Was it any less boring or pointless than the first one?
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Jan 8, 2017 19:52
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mistaya posted:That said I feel like the Faust books do a really good job with having POC, a gay couple, and women in the Main Cast that aren't tropes. I have only read three so far but it's the first UF series I've read in a while that feels like it really embodies the city and the people who live there and couldn't be set in Anywhere, USA. Yeah, the Faust/Harmony stuff is good with representation in general; it's "hey, these are people who happen to be POC or GLBT (or both, in Jessie's case)" instead of "hey! Look! Representation bingo!". There was a bit in the Revanche when Owl almost goes tropey-predatory-lesbian, but that's swerved when it turns out she's legitimately in love with Mari, and just as desperately lonely and broken as Mari is. Oh, and Mari is just as ax-murdery batshit crazy as the Owl is. Perfect match. That ended up being one of his better romances, along with Felix/Renata. Dude started out pretty bad at romance angles, but he's improving a lot.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:00
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What would be a real book example of "representation bingo"? Is that just really badly written token minorities?
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Jan 8, 2017 21:41
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Wizchine posted:I don't know, fellow urban fantasy readers. I've been reading Howard's Conan stories off and on lately,, and I certainly read my share of stuff way back when I was an English major (hello, Joseph Conrad and Arthur Conan Doyle), and I'm pretty comfortable with the sins of the handful of modern urban fantasy writers I've read - they pale in comparison to much of the stuff that forms the canon of English and American fiction. Yeah I agree that it is good that not everyone writes like Lovecraft but to handwave by saying well at least it isn't that bad seems a bit weak. As for writing awful stereotypes it turns out you can hire sensitivity readers who will go over the work and provide feedback to avoid it happening so it shouldn't be much of an issue. For recommendations Borderline by Mishell Baker. Where the main character has bpd, is in a wheelchair after a failed suicide attempt is recruited from a psych ward by a secret magical organisation to deal with fae and magic in Hollywood. The Craft Sequence series of books by Max Gladstone. Diverse set of characters in a world where magical contract law binds gods and where the currency of trade is souls. The Root by Na'amen Gobert Tilahun. Black LGBT main cast written by a black lgbt author. Magical bloodlines and an alternate dimension San Francisco filled with Angelics which are like old school wheels with multiple eyes and forms beyond human imagining than guys with wings.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:59
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Geokinesis posted:Yeah I agree that it is good that not everyone writes like Lovecraft but to handwave by saying well at least it isn't that bad seems a bit weak. I did set a fairly low bar in the examples I gave. I suppose I feel an author should earn more criticism about what he or she wrote, not what he or she chose not to write.
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Jan 9, 2017 03:22
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-Fish- posted:I'm gonna go against the flow and advise avoiding the Mercy Thompson series. It definitely never reaches Anita Blake levels of supernatural sex, but the romance arc still majorly ruins the series. The first few books are really promising but the romantic relationship gets into this poorly written sub/dom thing with her boyfriend as the dom, just with every instance of the words "sub" and "dom" replaced with "pack" and "alpha". This gets incredibly bad at the point where Mercy is raped by someone who drugs her with a mind control serum and is dealing with PTSD from it. Her boyfriend cures her of being raped and having PTSD by being ~sooo alpha <3 <3 <3~ and forcing himself on her while they're alone in his house.. That was the fourth or fifth book I think? I noped out hard at that point. See also, the women of the werewolf tribes ALL know Mercy and just hate her because unlike them, she can shapeshift whenever she wants, so she can have babies since she won't kill them by shapeshifting if she doesn't want to. Does the forcey-cure happen later or something? I'm about a third of the way through the book after the rape and so far there's been nothing of the sort. The boyfriend did use ~alpha magic~ to make her drink from the fairy cup to heal her physical injuries, but there was nothing about curing her PTSD with it. He's also been very clear they're not going to do anything physical until she's had some therapy so I'll be very surprised if he turns around and forces her into sex.
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Jan 9, 2017 12:44
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Just got a chance to sit down and actually play the Dresden Files RPG at a convention. It was a good old Where's Harry game. I played Butters. I got knocked out by cultists, tied up with Harry in their lair screamed like a girl, and had to be rescued by Sanja, Morty, and Michael's son. A good session.
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Jan 9, 2017 12:56
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Darkrenown posted:Does the forcey-cure happen later or something? I'm about a third of the way through the book after the rape and so far there's been nothing of the sort. The boyfriend did use ~alpha magic~ to make her drink from the fairy cup to heal her physical injuries, but there was nothing about curing her PTSD with it. He's also been very clear they're not going to do anything physical until she's had some therapy so I'll be very surprised if he turns around and forces her into sex. The spoilery part of the book happens right at the end of the book, if I remember correctly.
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Jan 9, 2017 14:30
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Darkrenown posted:Does the forcey-cure happen later or something? I'm about a third of the way through the book after the rape and so far there's been nothing of the sort. The boyfriend did use ~alpha magic~ to make her drink from the fairy cup to heal her physical injuries, but there was nothing about curing her PTSD with it. He's also been very clear they're not going to do anything physical until she's had some therapy so I'll be very surprised if he turns around and forces her into sex. It never happens. That description is far from what happens in the book.
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Jan 9, 2017 17:01
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Man, I don't like this new Molly story in the Shadowed Souls book. At all. So, another entire story based around winter sex drive, which is still extremely off-putting no matter what character you stick it on. Ramirez, one of my favorite characters, gets used as a prop and then off-screen hospitalized and pretty much had no agency at any point in the story. Molly gets gotcha'd into being a villain, and the entire "rescue" was completely selfish on the part of the Queens. Fun times. I'm hesitant to track down the Butters story if it's gonna have this kind of resolution. Hell, I'm starting to be hesitant on finishing the series if it's going to be another five books of Winter Sex Drive + How to Corrupt Everybody Bingo. mistaya fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:19
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The Butters-POV short is a hell of a lot cleaner than that. Also a lot cheesier, but I think that's part of the character of the Knights of the Cross as a whole. e: Also, it seems to me that Winter's Sex'n'Violence instincts are intended to be overcome if the mantle-wearer is going to be at all effective; if the bearer can't, they're not fit for the job and need to be replaced. Aerdan fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:46
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Aerdan posted:e: Also, it seems to me that Winter's Sex'n'Violence instincts are intended to be overcome if the mantle-wearer is going to be at all effective; if the bearer can't, they're not fit for the job and need to be replaced. probably, but it makes for pretty crappy reading anyway
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Jan 15, 2017 21:21
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awesmoe posted:probably, but it makes for pretty crappy reading anyway This, and it sucks all the air out of what could have been a decent short story.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:43
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I thought Molly's actual "job" was clever enough, if a bit depressing, but putting the Mantle crap on top just... exactly- sucked all the air out of what could have been a decent short story. Like I was far more upset about what she did to Ramirez than the actual thing she'd been sent to do, which took away all the impact of Mab's "Lesson" and just made it feel like kicking Molly (and the reader) when we're down. Ramirez had actually been cute with her, and age appropriate, and after this I can't imagine them being friends anymore let alone anything else. It's just a shame, all around. I guess it makes the Molly/Harry creepy crap less likely to go anywhere, that's the only benefit I can see to this existing.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:33
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mistaya posted:I thought Molly's actual "job" was clever enough, if a bit depressing, but putting the Mantle crap on top just... exactly- sucked all the air out of what could have been a decent short story. Mab's idea was that she knew Molly is terrible at considering the consequences of her actions, and so needed a practical example of what would happen if she didn't keep herself in check. That makes sense for Mab as a character, but in the context of the situation, it was... ill-considered, to put it mildly. Saddling one of the most prominent women in the story with a literal chastity belt is a rats nest of awful subtext I don't care to begin untangling. Ugh. I liked the story twist, what with having Molly cart away the town's kids to go be child soldiers in an interdimensional war. If the story had focused on that, and dropped the unsavory parts, it would have been quite good. As for Molly's obsession with Harry, unfortunately, while it isn't likely to 'go anywhere' the weird sexual tension that underlies it won't be going anywhere either. I will put money on there being a scene between them in an upcoming book that amounts to "I'd love to bang you but I'd turn into a superpowered rage monster." Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 00:06
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Literally the incredible hulk excuse how lame  .
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Jan 16, 2017 17:52
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mistaya posted:I thought Molly's actual "job" was clever enough, if a bit depressing, but putting the Mantle crap on top just... exactly- sucked all the air out of what could have been a decent short story. I'm pretty sure that what happened to Ramirez was also part of the lesson Mab wanted her to learn. There were several lessons, actually. 1) Think about a particular topic to learn how Winter Law applies to it. Seems very similar to Demonreach's Intellectus that Harry has, just with different limits on how it's focused. 2) The Winter Lady must help gather forces for the war at the Outer Gates. The job sucks, Mab knows it, but does not know of a better alternative. 3) Being the Maiden portion of the Maiden/Mother/Crone godhead, she can't gently caress men and potentially become a mother (which puts all kinds of "this was actually a threat" shades on things Maeve did in the past). Probably all kinds of workarounds to that though. 4) Never make light of what Mab is trying to tell you if she's giving you an order to do something, or she'll neglect to tell you something important so that it bites you right where it hurts.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:18
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Where's all this Ramirez poo poo coming from? I don't remember reading it in anything.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:50
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The Sex Cannon posted:Where's all this Ramirez poo poo coming from? I don't remember reading it in anything. From the short story Cold Case, published in the Shadowed Souls anthology.
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Jan 18, 2017 12:57
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Can someone spoil it for me?
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Jan 18, 2017 21:49
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Up Circle posted:Can someone spoil it for me? Molly's first task, she's sent to Alaska to collect tribute from a tribe. Gets attacked in a bar and Ramirez helps her. They flirt a lot. She agrees to help him look into that and he'll help her collect the tribute. They go to pick up the tribute and find out that the tribe's children have been kidnapped. They figured out it was Cthulu worshipers, and go to rescue them. They succeed, leave the children with the tribe, and Molly and Ramirez go to have sex. Molly blacks out and wakes up covered in blood. Man explains as the Winter Maiden she can't do anything that would risk her becoming the Winter Mother (no sex) and her mantle will react to protect it. Molly then realizes the tribute she's collecting is the children she rescued. All in all, Molly is pissed at Mab. Mab is Mab. Ramirez is barely alive.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:39
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Up Circle posted:Can someone spoil it for me? Mab sends Molly to Alaska and tasks her with collecting tribute from some local fae shapeshifters. When she arrives, Molly bumps into Ramirez, and they learn that some random cultists have kidnapped the shapeshifters children. Together they beat up the bad people, save the kids, and flirt a bunch. Afterward, they try and screw, but the Winter Lady mantle goes apoplectic and mauls Ramirez. When asked wtf, Mab's explanation is that there are three Queens: maiden, mother, crone, and that Molly's mantle would be destroyed if she became a 'mother', so it was defending itself. She also mentions that the reason everyone in Winter is so horny is to help upkeep their reserve of fresh bodies to fight at the Outer Gates. Oh, and speaking of, those kids Molly saved are also the tribute she was sent to collect, and she has to carry them off to fight in a forever war. The end.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:40
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How much detail is provided on Molly's nipples?
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Jan 19, 2017 00:02
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are her pubes diamonds yet
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Jan 19, 2017 00:07
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Oh my god why did it take so long for me to give The Rook a listen. It's my favorite of the recommended books from the OP so far and British narrators failing at American accents continues to make me laugh, though it's nowhere near as terrible as the Rivers of London guy. I can't believe I enjoyed an amnesia plot point.
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Jan 19, 2017 02:52
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Xtanstic posted:Oh my god why did it take so long for me to give The Rook a listen. It's my favorite of the recommended books from the OP so far and British narrators failing at American accents continues to make me laugh, though it's nowhere near as terrible as the Rivers of London guy. I can't believe I enjoyed an amnesia plot point. Wow, half of that could have been lifted from my GoodReads notes on The Rook. I just finished it and I, too, was surprised that I enjoyed the amnesia stuff. The infodumps didn't bother me nearly as much as they should have - they felt more natural and almost like the alternating timelines in Lies of Locke Lamora.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:42
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Xtanstic posted:Oh my god why did it take so long for me to give The Rook a listen. It's my favorite of the recommended books from the OP so far and British narrators failing at American accents continues to make me laugh, though it's nowhere near as terrible as the Rivers of London guy. I can't believe I enjoyed an amnesia plot point. gently caress you the Rivers of London narrator is amazing.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:45
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biracial bear for uncut posted:gently caress you the Rivers of London narrator is amazing. Agreed. I just laugh at bad American accents.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:47
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Xtanstic posted:Agreed. I just laugh at bad American accents. I always assumed he was doing it on purpose, because Peter doesn't seem to like most of the Americans he meets very much.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:44
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EVGA Longoria posted:Molly's first task, she's sent to Alaska to collect tribute from a tribe. Gets attacked in a bar and Ramirez helps her. They flirt a lot. She agrees to help him look into that and he'll help her collect the tribute. They go to pick up the tribute and find out that the tribe's children have been kidnapped. They figured out it was Cthulu worshipers, and go to rescue them. They succeed, leave the children with the tribe, and Molly and Ramirez go to have sex. Molly blacks out and wakes up covered in blood. Man explains as the Winter Maiden she can't do anything that would risk her becoming the Winter Mother (no sex) and her mantle will react to protect it. And that thing about the Mantle doesn't sound like it was something that Jim thought up ahead of time.
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Jan 20, 2017 07:05
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