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The problems of flying an unpressurized jet powered combat aircraft are hilariously numerous. It was bad enough in piston powered bombers.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:02
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Reading that article I was scared that it was gonna end up as a Byford Dolphin scenarioquote:Subsequent investigation by forensic pathologists determined Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the 60 centimetres (24 in) in diameter opening created by the jammed interior trunk door by escaping air and violently dismembered, including bisection of the thoracoabdominal cavity which further resulted in expulsion of all internal organs of the chest and abdomen except the trachea and a section of small intestine and of the thoracic spine and projecting them some distance, one section later being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:13
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Luckily the cockpit glass wasn't designed to withstand anywhere near 9atm. I wonder how high the pressure actually got.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:17
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Mortabis posted:That seems really weird because I can hold my breath a lot longer than 20 seconds. Does low pressure make that harder? It can take quite a while before you recognize that you even need to. If an alarm isn't triggered, you probably don't even realize there's a problem until you're hypoxic enough that the symptoms catch your attention.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:37
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Godholio posted:It can take quite a while before you recognize that you even need to. If an alarm isn't triggered, you probably don't even realize there's a problem until you're hypoxic enough that the symptoms catch your attention. I've done hypoxia training, and I can tell you that the onset is extremely insidious. There were a quite a few people in the pressure chamber who needed assistance to put their masks on because they just flat-out didn't realise they were hypoxic.
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Jan 19, 2017 02:36
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MrChips posted:I've done hypoxia training, and I can tell you that the onset is extremely insidious. There were a quite a few people in the pressure chamber who needed assistance to put their masks on because they just flat-out didn't realise they were hypoxic. Destin at Smarter Every Day did a good video on it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw basically the same thing happened to him.
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Jan 19, 2017 02:50
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It's emphasized in human factors training that pilots will usually not recognize hypoxia in a single-pilot environment before being too impaired by it to respond correctly, which is why it's a good idea to use oxygen even in marginal situations where you're not legally required to.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:25
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MrChips posted:I've done hypoxia training, and I can tell you that the onset is extremely insidious. There were a quite a few people in the pressure chamber who needed assistance to put their masks on because they just flat-out didn't realise they were hypoxic. The "oh god I can't breathe" trigger isn't the level of O2 in your blood, it's the level of CO2. So unless there's some external indicator that you're not breathing enough oxygen, you can absolutely slip right into unconsciousness and death. That's how Payne Stewart went. They don't know how fast his plane lost pressure, but: quote:If there had been a breach in the fuselage (even a small one that could not be visually detected by the in-flight observers) or a seal failure, the cabin could have depressurized gradually, rapidly, or even explosively. Research has shown that a period of as little as 8 seconds without supplemental oxygen following rapid depressurization to about 30,000 feet (9,100 m) may cause a drop in oxygen saturation that can significantly impair cognitive functioning and increase the amount of time required to complete complex tasks. And as another poster mentioned, it is *not* the same thing as holding your breath, because your blood doesn't surrender all its oxygen in one pass. If you hold your breath and your blood keeps cycling, there's enough O2 left in it to keep you functioning for a while. But if the PPO2 in your blood is higher than the PPO2 in the stuff you're inhaling, then your blood will outgas oxygen to the environment. Blood entering the lungs is typically about 40mmHg PPO2, so if the atmosphere where you're at is less than that O2 is going to start leaving your bloodstream at about 25 milliliters per minute per mmHG. When that deoxygenated blood makes its way back around to your brain, it's lights out. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 03:29
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If you notice symptoms, you're already in trouble. And it's not just a risk while flying. It can kill you at sea level too.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:35
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That's why some people suggest nitrogen asphyxiation as a way of carrying out the death penalty. Just pump the room full of pure nitrogen and you won't notice anything since there's no CO2 buildup to tell your body you're suffocating and you quickly go unconscious and die. Also it's cheap!
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Jan 19, 2017 04:43
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MRC48B posted:If you notice symptoms, you're already in trouble. And it's not just a risk while flying. That's a solid read, sad too.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:50
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my kinda ape posted:That's why some people suggest nitrogen asphyxiation as a way of carrying out the death penalty. Just pump the room full of pure nitrogen and you won't notice anything since there's no CO2 buildup to tell your body you're suffocating and you quickly go unconscious and die. Also it's cheap! It's also an easy way to commit suicide. Why are you guys looking at me like that?
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Jan 19, 2017 05:11
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EightBit posted:It's also an easy way to commit suicide. Banned for posting whilst dead.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:58
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EightBit posted:It's also an easy way to commit suicide. There’s a doctor (actually, I think he’s a former doctor now) in Australia, Philip Nitschke, who runs a store that sells nitrogen “brewing equipment”  in packages that contain all the components necessary to end a life.
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Jan 19, 2017 06:06
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I'm pretty sure all you would need to do is buy a bunch of dry ice at the hardware store, pour it on the back seat, shut the windows and go to sleep...
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Jan 19, 2017 09:10
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Aeronautical
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Jan 19, 2017 09:37
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Ola posted:Aeronautical Usually it's CFIT
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Jan 19, 2017 09:43
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fickle poofterist posted:I'm pretty sure all you would need to do is buy a bunch of dry ice at the hardware store, pour it on the back seat, shut the windows and go to sleep... You’d wake up and have to fight the urge to get fresh air. Carbon dioxide pretty much the worst gas you could use, other than actual chemical weapons.
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Jan 19, 2017 09:55
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Platystemon posted:Carbon dioxide pretty much the worst gas you could use, other than actual chemical weapons. CO2 will eventually do that too, but first you'll be in excruciating pain. To tie back to aeronautics, NASA hasn't had a carbon dioxide poisoning death that I know of, but they have lost people due to inert gas asphyxiation. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 10:06
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Ok then break into the science dept and steal some bottles of liquid nitrogen, and do the same thing
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Jan 19, 2017 12:31
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fickle poofterist posted:Ok then break into the science dept and steal some bottles of liquid nitrogen, and do the same thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut8mwo7vGBI
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Jan 19, 2017 12:40
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Comrade Gorbash posted:To tie back to aeronautics, NASA hasn't had a carbon dioxide poisoning death that I know of, but they have lost people due to inert gas asphyxiation.
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Jan 19, 2017 12:57
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fickle poofterist posted:Ok then break into the science dept and steal some bottles of liquid nitrogen, and do the same thing Whippit, whippit good!
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Jan 19, 2017 14:31
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Aeronautical Insanity: whippits at 50,000 feet.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:55
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High CO2 causes carbon dioxide poisoning, not hypoxia, and even in the presence of plenty of oxygen it'll kill you.
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Jan 19, 2017 15:41
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To reiterate how dangerous nitrogen is: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2000/09/21/nyregion/worker-at-hospital-dies-gas-leak-suspected.html My wife used to work at a fertility clinic and they used ln2 for embryo storage. One day someone dropped a rack into one of the storage containers which caused a lot of ln2 to slosh out and even more to come out as it went into a roiling boil. They ran the gently caress outta there and closed the rest of the day.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:03
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Mods please change thread name to Anaerobic Insanity
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Jan 19, 2017 16:08
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simplefish posted:Mods please change thread name to Anaerobic Insanity The last time I took a breath at 0 feet, I got blown out
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Jan 19, 2017 16:16
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I'm never going above 1000ft, or in an enclosed space ever again
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Jan 19, 2017 18:22
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blugu64 posted:I'm never going above 1000ft, or in an enclosed space ever again  https://www.google.com/amp/www.ibti...1?client=safari There's no escape.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:10
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I've gotten some worryingly conflicting info over the years in workplace safety courses about what I should be doing after emptying one of those CO2 fire extinguishers.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:41
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blugu64 posted:I'm never going above 1000ft, or in an enclosed space ever again See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
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Jan 19, 2017 20:27
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aphid_licker posted:I've gotten some worryingly conflicting info over the years in workplace safety courses about what I should be doing after emptying one of those CO2 fire extinguishers. putting it down and walking away quickly is my suggestion. I guess bonus compassion-for-your-coworkers points if you put it in a ditch or hole or something similarly under ground level
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Jan 19, 2017 20:35
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Jealous Cow posted:
Never go above 1000ft, stay on the top of the highest hill in the area.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:36
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Saukkis posted:
Yeah, on top of a hill, nothing bad can hap 
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Jan 19, 2017 20:39
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Find a hill that's well over 1000' agl, and hang out right at the 1000' mark.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:41
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Safety Dance posted:Find a hill that's well over 1000' agl, and hang out right at the 1000' mark. 
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Jan 19, 2017 21:03
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It really is hosed that you could be seconds from getting killed and not know it, no matter where you go on Earth.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:27
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Safety Dance posted:Find a hill that's well over 1000' agl, and hang out right at the 1000' mark. Sure head for the high ground sounds like a solid plan 
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Jan 19, 2017 21:36
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With all that said and done, I think the safest place to be is flying in an airplane.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:39
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