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You basically need a rein though and it's pretty limiting to play style.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:25
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Slime posted:Boy am I glad I didn't spend my credits during the winter event. People keep saying this, but the nerfs D.Va is getting don't even sound that bad?? Am I missing something? She still sounds like she's gonna be a beast and really fun to play. I mean hell she was still really fun to play even before her buffs despite not being very strong. The defense matrix is a really strong ability still and I don't think I've read anything about them changing that. Also that skin is great, and I'm absolutely gonna get it, but man I really really really wish they would add in a new legendary PINK skin. Blizzard I know some of you guys come to this godforsaken website sometimes, put a skin like this in the game thank you: 
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Jan 19, 2017 16:29
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Poque posted:If the shield is overbearing against uncoordinated teams, the solution is to coordinate your team, not to alter the shield. 90% of the game's population is uncoordinated teams. A character shouldn't be balanced around half a team attacking them at the same time. Like I started that thought off with how hesitant I'd be to change the shield. I'd prefer what I said at other times if they made some/a character(s) better at damaging it.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:33
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It sounds like D.Va will still do Reaper's job while having more health to me.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:35
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Justin_Brett posted:It sounds like D.Va will still do Reaper's job while having more health to me. In what way? Reaper does deeps, dva does not.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:37
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Justin_Brett posted:It sounds like D.Va will still do Reaper's job while having more health to me. A reaper up close still scares me. D.Va up close...ehhh. I don't find her all that scary.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:38
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:90% of the game's population is uncoordinated teams. A character shouldn't be balanced around half a team attacking them at the same time. I guess I'm still at pretty low levels where he is popular but not in every game, but it feels like he's got some pretty hard counters like Mei (ice wall isolation) or Sombra (hacking) who can handle him pretty well.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:42
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Sombra needs to be behind him and not noticed by his whole team that should be there behind him. Ice wall is pretty hard to use on defense rein I'd think. I'm not good with ice wall in general though.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:44
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Poque posted:I guess I'm still at pretty low levels where he is popular but not in every game, but it feels like he's got some pretty hard counters like Mei (ice wall isolation) or Sombra (hacking) who can handle him pretty well. Sombra is pretty new so people still don't know how to use her yet (she still seems pretty weak though) so for the most part Sombra is more like an annoying mosquito who always dies like a chump to my hammer whenever I encounter one. However the other night I actually did encounter a Sombra on a team who knew what the gently caress she was doing and was able to sneak past everyone every single time and hack me from behind or from the side, making my shield go down and letting whatever ult just destroy me and my team. I'm not really scared of Mei as Rein. Getting walled off sucks but that's true for any character honestly
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Jan 19, 2017 16:44
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Rein Ult should force him to jump in the air when he screams "Hammer!" and then slam "Down!" Effectively adding a half-second delay.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:45
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Thor-Stryker posted:Rein Ult should force him to jump in the air when he screams "Hammer!" and then slam "Down!" Effectively adding a half-second delay. Only if it instantly kills anyone physically hit by the hammer.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:55
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Sombra needs to be behind him and not noticed by his whole team that should be there behind him. Sombra is definitely tough since he can turn and disrupt the hack attempt, it's slightly better now that her time to hack has been reduced. And you're totally right about ice wall for defense rein, but it's really good against him when he's trying to push on offense.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:04
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I mean consider how big of a difference adding 3 damage to each of S76's shots made. Then consider that D-Va is losing 2 damage per shot (more at long range) in addition to a large survivability cut. I'm not even sure if she will persist at low levels of play since her terrible hitbox is a much bigger deal there. S76s who usually miss 70% of their shots can get close to 100% accuracy against D-Va with a good number of crits.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:18
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Poque posted:I guess I'm still at pretty low levels where he is popular but not in every game, but it feels like he's got some pretty hard counters like Mei (ice wall isolation) or Sombra (hacking) who can handle him pretty well. Neither of those characters are "hard counters" to Rein; he doesn't have any. Mei walls are good but only really work well on a handful of maps. "Don't balance around uncoordinated teams" is a good attitude to have, though, so props for that. I'm not suggesting nerfing Reinhardt's shield for the bad players, though, I'm suggesting nerfing it because he's completely indispensable at the highest levels of play and the shield dampens the importance of actual FPS mechanics. e: basically mobile one-way cover is insanely powerful and insanely boring, and on top of that it enables the worst parts of Blizzard's map design philosophy; chokepoints exist so Reinhardt can force his way through them Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 17:19
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Irony Be My Shield posted:S76s who usually miss 70% of their shots can get close to 100% accuracy against D-Va with a good number of crits. I wanna play against this S76, instead of the ones that full headshot snipe my Pharah out of the sky.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:20
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Given that he's likely to have teammates behind the shield, it's real tough for Sombra to actually get a hack. Especially since all he has to do to stop it is glance at her for a moment. She can maybe do it if she can get up on a ledge where she can hack him from while also being tough to hit, but on the ground I put her chances at very, very low.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:24
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I mean consider how big of a difference adding 3 damage to each of S76's shots made. Then consider that D-Va is losing 2 damage per shot (more at long range) in addition to a large survivability cut. D.Va has a terrible hit box, luckily she has a way to totally negate most forms of incoming damage unless she's in melee range, she also has an incredibly strong escape and is the hardest to kill character (maybe 2nd depending on how much pressure is on Reins shield). The knee jerk reaction to her nerf is like when people instantly assumed Ana was garbage until she was turned into a game warping monster that those same people now complain about. She's still good, people need to chill out with the knee jerk reactions, they're starting before the patch has even gone live which is ludicrous.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:27
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The D.Va range nerf mostly means she won't absolutely poo poo on your Reinhardt Barrier from mid range now
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Jan 19, 2017 17:46
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Bolow posted:The D.Va range nerf mostly means she won't absolutely poo poo on your Reinhardt Barrier from mid range now ^^^and re using defense matrix to defend herself against incoming crits; it's a bad idea to put yourself into a position where that's necessary, since having DM on cool down prevents D.Va from using it to eat ults, which is arguably one of the biggest things she brings to the table. Basically, the damage nerf is going to force D.VA to close to point blank range to do any sort of significant damage, but the armor nerf is going to make closing in a really bad idea unless it's against an isolated target. So, RIP D.Va. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 17:57
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Had an absolute unicorn moment last night playing QP. After a pretty quick win on Attack, I hit the "Stay As Group" button, and two others hopped in. We won another round, so I hit it again and we picked up a fourth. A few wins later, we had a full six crew, no one on mic, just making solid comps and rolling. I think we played together for almost 2 hours and didn't lose a single match. I'll never see anything like it again, but it was beautiful.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:05
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At close range, you go from 24 to 22 damage (assuming all pellets hit), about 8% nerf. At midrange, you go from 16 to 11 damage (again, assuming all pellets hit), about 31% nerf. At long range, you go from 8 to 11 damage, but you won't hit all the pellets unless if you're shooting at rein shield or something.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:05
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Redundant posted:Soldier got a nearly 20% damage buff, D.Va is getting about an 8% nerf (they added more pellets). D.Va had also recently received a 25% movement speed buff whilst firing which is difficult to really quantify in terms of how it effects her DPS but it is pretty notable. Comparisons between the 2 are pretty spurious. At medium range (or longer) D.Va does no damage anyway (same goes for Reaper) because basically none of the pellets will make contact at all. Going from 8 to 4 is a 50% drop but is still pretty inconsequential taken "big picture". alternatively, they could play Dva on the PTR and notice that she's actually fine.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:"Don't balance around uncoordinated teams" is a good attitude to have, though, so props for that. I'm not suggesting nerfing Reinhardt's shield for the bad players, though, I'm suggesting nerfing it because he's completely indispensable at the highest levels of play and the shield dampens the importance of actual FPS mechanics. Yeah it's when something is oppressive at multiple levels of play it's a problem.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:11
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Yeah it's when something is oppressive at multiple levels of play it's a problem. Which is yet another thing that bums me out about the D.Va nerfs: I'm not going to be able to rocket punch Reinhardt out of position and gun him down anymore, because I'll die long before he does. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 18:13
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Ersatz posted:It's making things kind of stale, tbh. You can only play so many rounds of Phalanx Simulator 2017 before you start wishing for alternatives. I get hating Rein and wanting him to have less of an impact on the game, having D.Va be OP isn't the answer though.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:32
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Oxyclean posted:I think the best earthshatter counter is don't be clumped up near an enemy Rein. If only gets one or two people with it that leaves the rest of the team to just melt him if he tries to go for a kill. Pro teams still get caught in Rein ults all the time so "just don't get hit" is much harder than you make it sound. https://www.twitch.tv/overwatch_nge/v/115687370?t=01h02m53s
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Jan 19, 2017 18:33
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Make Rein's shield block both ways
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Jan 19, 2017 18:38
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Ersatz posted:It's making things kind of stale, tbh. You can only play so many rounds of Phalanx Simulator 2017 before you start wishing for alternatives. also you should already generally be dying if you boost into a rein and then try and gun him down, because he will be around his whole team
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Jan 19, 2017 18:39
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Make Roadhog's hook grab barriers
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Jan 19, 2017 18:40
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Ersatz posted:It's making things kind of stale, tbh. You can only play so many rounds of Phalanx Simulator 2017 before you start wishing for alternatives. i choose to believe in a junkrat meta
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Jan 19, 2017 18:41
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Tenebrais posted:Make Roadhog's hook grab barriers what like just yoink the shield out of reinhart's hands?  or does reinhardt come attached? in which case, what would it do to a winston shield?
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Jan 19, 2017 18:51
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Redundant posted:Well, yeah? Obviously. No class can solo a tank being supported by their team without dying. The fact that you thought it was a possibility before is kind of why D.Va needed the nerf. If you catch Rein solo you will still ruin him. Hint: D.Va wasn't the OP character in this situation.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:what like just yoink the shield out of reinhart's hands? I guess it'd make more sense in the game mechanics if Reinhardt stayed attached to his shield and got yoinked over. Fits fine for Winston and Symmetra's barriers to just get pulled over by themselves.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:02
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Roadhog kills Rein barrier faster than anyone else in the game other than a Reaper who's standing less than 10m away from it. 225 dps, 900 per clip for RH. Live vs PTR Dva goes from168 to 154, and still does a less dps timing over RH's full reload cycle, 5.5 seconds–as unfavorable as you can get for Roadhog, at 847. Soldier does 700 in that time. Because the best counter to a tank is another tank, of course. Whenever a hero is their own best counter it's questionable design, because then whenever those heroes are run, you might want their duplicate on your own team. Ana, Reinhardt, Lucio, and now Sombra–in at least one pro match defense ran a Sombra to slow down a point 1 offense knowing their opponents ran a Sombra offense. The other 3-2 slots are run to counter the heroes that counter the core heroes or counter the counters. Recently, Dva, Soldier, and RH. Also, beyblade (nanoboosted Reaper) could always have been countered by banking a RH ult. Same with nanoblade. If they'd given the meta time to adapt the strat would have been pushed down without the nerf.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:03
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Papercut posted:Pro teams still get caught in Rein ults all the time so "just don't get hit" is much harder than you make it sound. I can't watch the clip now, but I'm just not sure I'm understanding what the problem is. Do Pro teams occasionally get caught in D.Va ults? Do Mercys occasionally get full team rezs? There's not much wind up on her rez, and that sort of thing seems far more game swinging then any other ult on its own. I don't think the counter to Rein's ult is supposed to be something you can react to - you play around the fact it's something he can do. I apologize if I'm coming off as facetious or something, but I'm not sure I follow the reasons for why Rein's ult needs more windup / a nerf.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:13
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What's junkrat DPS on the shield?
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Jan 19, 2017 19:14
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Oxyclean posted:I can't watch the clip now, but I'm just not sure I'm understanding what the problem is. Do Pro teams occasionally get caught in D.Va ults? Do Mercys occasionally get full team rezs? There's not much wind up on her rez, and that sort of thing seems far more game swinging then any other ult on its own. I don't think the counter to Rein's ult is supposed to be something you can react to - you play around the fact it's something he can do. meanwhile rein is already really good because of his shield, and then earthshatter comes out super quick with a huge hitbox and leads to teamwipes perhaps more consistently than any other ult in the game besides zarya ult, but charges faster and has less counterplay(teams who get put in a graviton can still counterult to save themselves with ults like lucios, Zens)
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Jan 19, 2017 19:28
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:What's junkrat DPS on the shield? 200 dps, so he'd be number 4 behind bastion, roadhog and reaper. His advantage is no falloff at long range.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:40
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only a bit related but the #1 thing that works well as junkrat at high rank(that I've seen) is being junkrat on 1st point defense on AD maps, and putting down a trap+conc a bit around the corner of whatever choke people need to push through. like on volskaya where attack often goes left as they push through into that indoor area, a trap+conc there catches people all the time since they're not looking in that direction as they hurry through the choke. I've seen ster do this a lot in grandmasters and it seems like it works really well because a lot of the time it's just a free pick, no one expects it. and then he switches off junk once first point is taken which is unfortunately also important
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Jan 19, 2017 19:44
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Haha they're nerfing Dvas damage? Psst Blizzard making poo poo unkillable is what made Heroes of the Storm absolute poo poo. Damage across the board is pretty weak in Overwatch and that coupled with all the survivability skills makes for a duller game.
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