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The Krengel Diary 1941 6 February: We board a train at the railroad station in Potsdam. At 11 AM, we move out and travel through Berlin, Leipzig, Hof, and Regensburg. 7 February: We travel from Regensburg and Munich to Innsbruck, and reach the Brenner Pass at 10 PM. The next morning we go through Bolzano, Trento, Verona, and Vicenza to Padua; then on to Bologna, Rome, Naples, and Caserta. There we load our vehicles and armor. 10 February: In Caserta, visiting the old town. 11 February: We have breakfast at 5:30 AM and move out to Naples and at 8 AM the loading of our vehicles onto the transport D-Ruhr begins. From 4 PM to 6 PM we have time to stroll through Naples. 12 February: At 1 AM, action stations on all ships; we leave Naples in a convoy with D-Kypfels, D-Ruhr, Adana, and Ankara. We have an escort of 1 destroyer and a torpedo boat. In the afternoon, we are in sight of Sicily. As darkness sets in, we travel in a line with all lights out. The Ruhr was sunk by bombing from aircraft based in Malta, less than 2 years after this voyage, in January 1943. I can't find any info on a "Kypfels". The "Adana" would be lost in mid-April after the convoy it was in was intercepted by British warships. The "Ankara" was lost to a mine in January 1943. 13 February: On board D-Ruhr, I have bridge duty for 2 hours. The African coast is soon in view (Tunis); we change course to the east. 14 February: We meet up with an Italian convoy. We are now escorted by German and Italian aircraft; lots of Ju-52's. The weather is foggy but very hot. We arrive in Tripoli at 8 PM and immediately start unloading. 15 February: At 4 AM we finish our unloading and sleep for a few hours on a bicycle race track. We are up at 8 AM and change into Africa uniforms. I'm assigned as a motorcycle messenger and we load up the side car. At noon, we parade through Tripoli where General Rommel addresses us and reviews our equipment. We then depart for Misurala. Should I keep going?
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Jan 19, 2017 02:43
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SlothfulCobra posted:Wasn't the re-introduction of armor for infantry more about schrapnel than actual improvements in armor technology? Pretty much, yes. At most, Kevlar vests and/or helmets may stop a pistol-caliber round, but that also depends on distance, ammunition type, and how modern the armor is. None of it really stands up against rifle cartridges, as we've seen in the recently posted US weapons vid, or from tests done on youtube or on theboxoftruth.com
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Jan 19, 2017 02:45
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SlothfulCobra posted:Wasn't the re-introduction of armor for infantry more about schrapnel than actual improvements in armor technology? There was some expectation that hard armor might save your life in WW1, just not that it would absorb a direct hit from a rifle at typical combat ranges. But for pistol rounds or glancing blows, it could mean the difference between life and death. Armor exclusively for shrapnel was the most common pre-Kevlar, but this was also mostly issued to air crews. Synthetic fibers like Kevlar were what brought about common armor for ground troops once more.
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Jan 19, 2017 02:46
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Jobbo_Fett posted:At most, Kevlar vests and/or helmets may stop a pistol-caliber round, but that also depends on distance, ammunition type, and how modern the armor is. Modern body armor (not just Kevlar, but metal or ceramic armor inserts) can absolutely and routinely does stand up against full-length rifle cartridges. This was posted a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQi7iknSKy0 That's not some little 5.56 or 7.62x39 round, that's a full length 7.62x54 round from a Dragunov, at a range of 75 yards. Granted, it's not just Kevlar, it's a Level IV ballistic plate, but it stops that round cold. Poetically, the guy who took the round to the chest plate was the same guy who ended up putting the flex-cuffs on the sniper a few minutes later. For pistol rounds, Kevlar vests are *very* reliable. I mean, yeah, it depends on the things you say, but the number of cops who have been killed with pistol rounds that penetrated a vest is vanishingly small. Between 2005 and 2014, there were 505 non-Federal LEOs shot and killed in the line of duty. Of those 505, 338 of them were wearing body armor when they were killed. But of those 338, only 29% of them were shot in the torso, the vast majority of deaths were due to head/throat hits. Of the 98 who were killed by a torso shot, most of those were hits in areas the vest didn't cover. Under the arm, and so forth. 20% were due to the vest just being overmatched with a more powerful round than it was designed to stop. Only one death was due to the vest not stopping a round it was designed to stop. Against handgun stuff even Kevlar vests are serious protection; if you're a cop and you don't wear a vest your chances of being shot to death are 3.4 times higher than if you do. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 02:59
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Phanatic posted:Modern body armor (not just Kevlar, but metal or ceramic armor inserts) can absolutely and routinely does stand up against full-length rifle cartridges. poo poo, yeah, forgot about ceramic plates. My bad.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:05
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The Krengel Diary 1941 16 February: By 3 PM we are in Misurala and at 7 PM we arrive in Sirte and occupy a position between some sand dunes. [Krengel's company was the first to arrive at Sirte] 17 February: All day we have a sandstorm, called a "Ghibli". We have to dismantle and clean the carburetor on the bike. In the evening, General Rommel arrives at our position and congratulates us in the name of our Fuhrer. We have our first reconnaissance mission and move nearer the seashore. The next morning we load machine gun belts with bullets and in the afternoon, we have a swim in the Mediterranean. 19 February: We move out to Nufilia, very rocky terrain here. We are on security duty from 8 to 10 PM and from 6 to 8 AM. [Nufilia was the site of the very first battle between British and German forces in North Africa; also referred to as En Nofilia or just Nofilia] 20 February: Our Company is loaded onto trucks and is assigned to Battle Group Fallois Rastram. I cannot find any info on this battle group. 21-22 February: Our Battle Group returns without enemy contact; we receive Italian rations for the first time; Olive oil, Aniseed, Tobacco, Bread, and Pasta. 23 February: At 3 PM, we depart with Battle Group [Winrich] Behr to El Agheila. Our orders are to escort our Panzers and take prisoners. We leave with 2 platoons, one heavy 8-wheeled armored vehicle [Puma], our motorcycle infantry, and a radio group on a truck. At 7 PM, we are 10 miles from El Agheila. [El Agheila is located in far southwestern Cyrenaica and was the site of several battles. The British had taken it from the Italian Tenth Army during Operation Compass] We stop here but the infantry continues on foot. There was no Puma at this time. The Puma, specifically the Sd.Kfz 234/2, didn't see service until 1943. The editor most likely meant the Sd.Kfz 231/232/263 24 February: At 7 AM, we strike into El Agheila and surprise the British, capturing 8 armoured cars and 3 POW's. We return to our positions near En Nofilia at 2 PM and rest. We listen via radio to a speech from our Fuhrer. 25 February: We occupy a fort at En Nofilia. It has a triangular shape and contains a radio station. Our group has one big room. General Rommel arrives and brings us cigarettes, a box of oranges, and some Italian wine. 26 February: I have guard duty from 8:30 AM to noon. The radio mentions a report by the Army High Command in Berlin about our successful operation into El Agheila. My duty has been extended for another day; we are responsible for the watering point. 28 February: The new Commander of our Battle Group is 1st Lt. [Wolfgang-Dieter] Everth. We are moving out again toward El Agheila. We stop at noon in the desert and General Rommel arrives in a Fieseler Storch plane. His pilot gives me some cigarettes. 29 February: We receive some bad news: an Italian cruiser was sunk near Tripoli. Also, a tragic mistake happened today. Obersoldat Reichelt returned from a walk in the dark and forgot the password. He was shot and killed by our guard. He is the first fatality of the DAK. He was buried with full honors. The closest Italian cruiser loss I can find is the Armando Diaz. It was sunk by the British submarine HMS Upright on the 25th. It was a light cruiser, of the Condotierrie/(Luigi) Cadorna class.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:16
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Should I keep going?
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Jan 19, 2017 03:35
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I'm giggling at the image of Rommel bringing trunkfuls of stolen Italian groceries back to some field base like he's some level 8 druid. E: oh he got a flying mount, definitely higher than level 8. Maybe swinging back through the starting zone to get leftover quests? FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 04:21
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The Krengel Diary 1941 3 March: At 9 AM we move out to a position 24 miles west of El Agheila and get a look at the assembled DAK. We are 6 miles behind the front line. We take a dip in the sea and rest. 7 March: Feel sick today and report to the medic. A headache and cold make me ill for two days. 10 March: Fit for duty finally. We are doing a reconnaissance to the south; to a mountain we call Tafelberg [Table Mountain]. In the early evening, after returning, the drivers of our Pumas* receive the Panzer Battle Award. *Still not Pumas 12-14 March: Before noon I drive in a car to Benghazi and arrive there at 9 PM to report to the doctor at the hospital; heavy ghibli today. On the 14th, we are supposed to receive Volkswagen Kubelwagens so I hear. 15-18 March: We camouflage our vehicles and attend to our weapons. On the 17th, we do a short reconnaissance to the Table Mountain. On the 18th we are attacked by British fighters, Hurricanes, and we shoot one down; no casualties in our unit. 19 March: Another Hurricane shot down. News reaches us that we are supposed to move back to make room for an Italian Division. Our 5th Panzer Regiment reaches the Via Balba Archway. We have a strong ghibli on the 21st. 22 March: We are ready to attack in the general direction of El Agheila. At 2 PM on the 23rd, we reach a point 8 miles west of El Agheila. We sit around for hours but then march along the seashore toward El Agheila. 24 March: We occupy the fort at 4:30 AM without a shot being fired, and by 5:30 the whole company has arrived. Two British trucks roll by not far off but nobody has given us permission to fire, and when permission is finally given the Tommies are out of range. We are then shot at by 40mm British AT guns and this time we are allowed to return fire; no results seen. Later the whole Battle Group arrives for the major attack on El Agheila. The leading Panzer hits a road mine and blows up; 2 dead. Lt. Seidel is KIA during the attack but we take El Agheila by early evening. 25 March: We can see Hurricanes above us but they do not attack. We drive along the coastal highway to marker [kilometer marker] 14, where we are relieved by the 8th Machine Gun Battalion. We construct a defensive position with sand and tents; very hot today. 26-29 March: We are in our sand castle hunting fleas; we swim in the sea and wash our uniforms. In the evening Berlin Radio announces the capture of El Agheila. 30-31 March: Panzers are rolling by toward the east. We greet them with a hearty "Arriva." There is fighting around Mersa El Brega with both Stukas and Panzers involved. We move out of the sand castle on 1 April and 12 miles east of El Agheila we bivouac on the roadside. I'll be slowing down these posts. There's years to go through, but I'll probably go through 1 page per day. For those interested in the source, its "Two Soldiers, Two Lost Fronts". The 2nd half of the book covers these diary entries. The first half is a unit diary for a unit that took part in Stalingrad. Edit: Both diaries were written during the war, so they don't have any post-war "cleaning." Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 04:30
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Fuligin posted:Anyone have recommendations on books, blogs, podcasts, whatever for the Chinese theater in WW2? I'm trying to bone up on it fast for a personal project. Forgotten Ally by Rana Mitter is recent and seems to have very good reviews. I haven't read it yet but I'm gonna go do that now. I read Dick Wilson's When Tigers Fight a while back and it was a perfectly readable popular history. No doubt very out of date at this point and very light on the communists, since the PRC archives would still have been locked down tight at the time it was written.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:56
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I actually stumbled upon a book called "Kangzhan: Guide to Chinese Ground Forces 1937-45", which I should be receiving soon. I'll let you know how it is once I take a look at it. I have this! I quite like it but I was using it for wargaming purposes so the fact it focused on organisations and equipment and less so on personalities and battles was alright.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:13
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spectralent posted:I have this! I quite like it but I was using it for wargaming purposes so the fact it focused on organisations and equipment and less so on personalities and battles was alright. Good to know! I'll have to check P-Mack posted:Forgotten Ally by Rana Mitter is recent and seems to have very good reviews. I haven't read it yet but I'm gonna go do that now. Since it sounds more like it talks more about the history/personalities of the conflict rather than the TOEs.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:16
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Nebakenezzer posted:Interesting. Why were they underpowered? Lack of modern medicine made it easier to die from a bullet wound? I've got a few theories, myself, but at the core of it is that they were only underpowered within a modern notion of how a gunfight was undertaken, and how wounds would be received. Ranges of engagement, shot placement, concealability, ability to retaliate, and speed/effectiveness of medical aid are all aspects that deserve consideration. Also, the absence of hollowpoints meant that basicallly everyone was carrying ball ammunition of one kind or another. In such circumstances the (slower, but heavier) .36 conical ball out of even a much earlier sidearm like the Colt Navy was about as fearsome as 9x19 out of a Luger. We're, of course, talking about the wound potential of the individual shot, rather than the whole pistol emptied at a target in an engagement. The other point is that because a lot of typical firearms carriers on the civilian side (including cops, of course, but also private detectives, union busters, and anybody wishing to defend themselves) would pay for it out of their own pocket, and a gun designed to take .380 ACP is going to be outright cheaper to produce than one that shoots .45 simply due to the demands of contemporary metallurgy. And, hell, if you got one of the nicer .380s you might have have better ammo capacity besides. At the end of the day though, I don't reckon that, except for the .25 maybe, the power difference was noticeable except in fringe cases. Hope this gets my point across, not the most clear-headed at the moment.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:34
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I'll be slowing down these posts. There's years to go through, but I'll probably go through 1 page per day. Can you please link previous posts as you go forwards?
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Jan 19, 2017 06:21
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MANime in the sheets posted:Can you please link previous posts as you go forwards? I'll see what I can do. The Krengel Diary Part 4 Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 1941 2 April: At 6 AM we leave Mersa El Brega, but have several halts waiting for our artillery to push the British back towards Agedabia. Our Panzers are now in the action as well; we detour through knee deep sand dunes and at 5 PM we hear that Agedabia has been taken by our Panzers [5th Panzer Regiment]. We set up a defensive perimeter with PaK and armor just north of Agedabia. 3 April: At 1 PM, we advance to attack a group of enemy tanks that have been reported in our area but it was a false alarm. We return and come under command of the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion, Battle Group Wechmar [Oberst Irnfried Freiherr von Wechmar]. At 6 PM, we advance towards Benghazi and encounter numerous destroyed Italian tanks along the road. We capture a whole British supply depot, but continue our march through the night. 4 April: By 3 AM, Benghazi is burning and the city is free of enemy. We roll through the town at 5 AM and stop for a rest in a palm grove to catch up on sleep. The civilian population is elated and treats us as liberators. We are given British rations captured the day before. Later we continue our advance. The target is Mechilli, 18 miles southeast of Benghazi. In Mechilli we get into a firefight with an Australian Infantry Battalion. Sgt. Ruder is killed by a bullet to the head and two others are wounded. I receive some tiny bits of shrapnel in my hand but nothing serious. We are awake all night. It's very cold. 5 April: We are moving out early today. 3rd Platoon is under the command of 1st Lt. Wangemann. We move into Regima and occupy the village without a fight. Tommie has disappeared somehow to the east. We advance along a camel route; to call it a road would be a real exaggeration. A halt is called after travelling about 40 miles to the east in the desert. 6 April: We send out an armed patrol that spots enemy tanks ahead. We retreat but capture 2 enemy soldiers in the process. We march throughout the night. 7 April: Before we reach Mechilli, a halt is called because the area ahead is well mined. 1st Lt. Everth's *Puma* trips a mine but the explosion causes no casualties. Sgt. Schuberth and a Pioneer Platoon clear a gap in the mine field. These are the new Thermos mines, which are very hard to detect. We accidentally fire on one of our own trucks that had lost its way in the desert; no casualties. At 4 PM General Rommel arrives in his Fieseler Storch. He tells me that he was almost captured by a British desert patrol when he landed at one of our fuel depots that had been left unguarded. 8 April: We have another ghibli today that causes many breakdowns due to sand problems. We nevertheless advance with what we have past Mechilli and find much British war material; trucks, gasoline, rations, and other things. We keep up the advance all night to the north and toward the city of Derna. 9 April: We reach the Derna airfield at 2 AM. We seem to be the only unit that has made it here in one piece. We have a shrt rest and at 11 AM we depart to the east. We have 2 mishaps with a *Puma* but we are still rolling. At 32 miles west of Tobruk we call a halt. Once again, they do not have Pumas
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Jan 19, 2017 08:28
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Oh, and here's a good video showing P-47s strafing stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk1JbUQkGSs&t=77s Edit: Note the runs at 1:44~onwards. Not a lot of time on target. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_OY09NID0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZoLE Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 08:37
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Oh, and here's a good video showing P-47s strafing stuff. Those German strafing videos immediately threw up a bunch of Wehraboo related videos.
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Jan 19, 2017 09:06
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Please, please keep up the effort posting as it makes my commute much more bearable.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:11
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Jobbo_Fett posted:There was no Puma at this time. The Puma, specifically the Sd.Kfz 234/2, didn't see service until 1943. The editor most likely meant the Sd.Kfz 231/232/263[/I] Hmm, if the diary was written contemporaneously, how is it possible it references a vehicle that didn't exist yet? I mean presumably the author wrote down the German word for 'that big feline native to the Americas', right, not just 'armoured car' and then the translator is making it more specific for no obvious reason?
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Jan 19, 2017 13:27
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Nebakenezzer posted:Interesting. Why were they underpowered? Lack of modern medicine made it easier to die from a bullet wound? Metallurgy and nitrocellulose powders were touched on previously, but a couple other factors. 1. These were really little guns designed to carry in a gentleman's vest pocket. Small calibers were necessary to get the overall size of the revolver or automatic down. They were mostly intended to discourage muggings, buglaries, etc as a personal defense weapon rather than for Operators to Go Loud and Service Tangos (hotter loads like 7.65 parabellum, .380 ACP, 9x20 Browning Long, .455 webley etc were used for combat sidearms). Performance just wasn't that much of an issue provided it was a gun that could go bang and seriously injure someone or discourage them from trying to take your monocle. 2. You can kill someone extremely dead with .22LR; the .25 ACP was designed to replicate 22LR performance out of a 2" barrel and was for shooting people at roughly 10m ranges or less. edit: just to be clear I'm talking about roughly 1900-1914 here. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 14:14
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Jobbo_Fett posted:The closest Italian cruiser loss I can find is the Armando Diaz. It was sunk by the British submarine HMS Upright on the 25th. It was a light cruiser, of the Condotierrie/(Luigi) Cadorna class. Another thought is perhaps losses weren't reported until later, that was fairly common all around during the war.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:20
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feedmegin posted:Hmm, if the diary was written contemporaneously, how is it possible it references a vehicle that didn't exist yet? I mean presumably the author wrote down the German word for 'that big feline native to the Americas', right, not just 'armoured car' and then the translator is making it more specific for no obvious reason? Looks like the first mention is an editor's note, the text itself states "heavy eight-wheeled armoured car", ie. Schwerer Panzerspähwagen 8-rad in German and [Puma] in brackets. Presumably the editor has then replaced all references to Panzerspähwagens with Pumas because feline beast names carry a sexier and more mythological aura than "armoured car" or "Sonderkraftfahrzeug".
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Jan 19, 2017 14:28
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:They were mostly intended to discourage muggings, buglaries, etc as a personal defense weapon rather than for Operators to Go Loud and Service Tangos (hotter loads like 7.65 parabellum, .380 ACP, 9x20 Browning Long, .455 webley etc were used for combat sidearms). Operators servicing tangos with hot loads, you say? https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=pmcBVbQ-yEU
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Jan 19, 2017 14:51
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steinrokkan posted:Well, cavalry is best known for its charge on both sides that ended the battle of Königgrätz. During that episode, the Austrian cavalry, which had been held in reserve until then, was ordered to attack the advancing Prussians to cover the retreat of the main Austro-Hungarian formations. The equipment and general level of cavalry on both sides was, I would say, relatively similar, unlike the infamous gap between Prussian and Austrian infantry. The Habsburgs fielded a mix of mainly Hungarian dragoons and hussars armed with sabers and pistols; additionally there were Polish hulans - lancers, and Cisleithanian (Austrian and Bohemian) cuirassers, who, however, did not fight in their armor. The Prussians had lancers of their own, and additionally their equipment consisted of sabers and carbines. Thanks! That was a really interesting post. Didn't the Habsburgs have any Croat cavalry?
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Jan 19, 2017 15:29
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A little different from the normal content here, but InRange TV taste tested the original formula for Fanta as created by Germany when WW2 isolated the local Coca-Cola division. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZZ8Htst5XI
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Jan 19, 2017 15:30
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feedmegin posted:Hmm, if the diary was written contemporaneously, how is it possible it references a vehicle that didn't exist yet? I mean presumably the author wrote down the German word for 'that big feline native to the Americas', right, not just 'armoured car' and then the translator is making it more specific for no obvious reason? Nenonen posted:Looks like the first mention is an editor's note, the text itself states "heavy eight-wheeled armoured car", ie. Schwerer Panzerspähwagen 8-rad in German and [Puma] in brackets. Presumably the editor has then replaced all references to Panzerspähwagens with Pumas because feline beast names carry a sexier and more mythological aura than "armoured car" or "Sonderkraftfahrzeug". Basically this. Whoever edited/translated the diary either wanted something to sound better, mixed up his armoured cars, or doesn't know the Puma was a specific model and not just the 8-rad class of vehicles. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Another thought is perhaps losses weren't reported until later, that was fairly common all around during the war. By that time of the war, Italy had only lost 2 cruisers. The Armando Diaz, given roughly the same position as its real loss, and the Bartolomeo Colleoni, which was sunk northwest of Crete in July 1940. Unless you count auxiliary cruisers, and then you have the Ramb I but that was lost on the 27th, in the Indian Ocean. Also, another problem. 1941 wasn't a leap year, so why does it have 29 days? 
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Jan 19, 2017 15:57
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I've got a big stash of photos my grandfather took during WW2. I've scanned them all, where do you think the best place on SA to share them is? Here or else where? How should I host them?   Rubble pics, gun pics, guys goofing around pics, and even some pics of a captured Nazi railroad gun.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:28
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How big a stash are we talking? Imgur seems like a good informal hosting solution. You might do well to talk to some other websites as well, not sure which this would be a good fit for. Boingboing, maybe?
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Jan 19, 2017 16:41
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TerminalSaint posted:Operators servicing tangos with hot loads, you say? I need that Three Operator Moon t-shirt now.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:13
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Jobbo_Fett posted:By that time of the war, Italy had only lost 2 cruisers. The Armando Diaz, given roughly the same position as its real loss, and the Bartolomeo Colleoni, which was sunk northwest of Crete in July 1940. Unless you count auxiliary cruisers, and then you have the Ramb I but that was lost on the 27th, in the Indian Ocean. The old armored cruiser San Giorgio (which had been reconstructed as a training ship but had a modern AA suite) was scuttled at Tobruk on 22 January 1941, but the "near Tripoli" definitely suggests he's talking about the Diaz. Presumably it just took a few days for the news to arrive.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:33
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My favourite citation style.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:34
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Nenonen posted:Looks like the first mention is an editor's note, the text itself states "heavy eight-wheeled armoured car", ie. Schwerer Panzerspähwagen 8-rad in German and [Puma] in brackets. Presumably the editor has then replaced all references to Panzerspähwagens with Pumas because feline beast names carry a sexier and more mythological aura than "armoured car" or "Sonderkraftfahrzeug". Schwerer Panzerspähwagen with eight wheels here is probably just the 231/232, not the 234 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Panzersp%C3%A4hwagen
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Jan 19, 2017 17:47
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:The old armored cruiser San Giorgio (which had been reconstructed as a training ship but had a modern AA suite) was scuttled at Tobruk on 22 January 1941, but the "near Tripoli" definitely suggests he's talking about the Diaz. Presumably it just took a few days for the news to arrive. Ah! The website I was using as a reference lists the San Giorgio as a "Coastal Defense Ship." That's probably why I missed it.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:03
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Ensign Expendable posted:My favourite citation style. Lol it's like wehraboo footnotes. "IT'S SLAVIC poo poo HUMAN WAVES I DONT KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM"
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Jan 19, 2017 18:32
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darthbob88 posted:We've got better gunpowder and stronger guns than they did. I expect Cyrano or somebody can provide actual numbers for a cap-and-ball revolver vs a new 1911, but modern guns can reach higher chamber pressures than the old timers could, which translates to higher velocities and powers. Pretty much this. Metallurgy (of weapon, projectile and casing) and propellant advances make for sometimes-startling improvements in performance - I have "vintage" (IE, antique) ammo in one particular obsolete handgun caliber that is significantly more piddly than even the not-quite-antique box, and that's (IMO) still perceivably weaker than recent-production examples. (  .38 S&W, not Special, fired from a 1943-dated Webley Mk IV. "Vintage" is a mixed bag of crusty old pre-WWII manufacture, possibly pre-WWI.  Next is early '60s Kynoch .380" Mk IIz, Indian manufacture. The last batch is PPU, don't have the boxes handy but I'm fairly certain they're post-2000. )e:f,b but fuckit.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:58
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How did countries go about developing the doctrine (and what would you call it?) used to fight WW2 between WW1 and 1939? From my layman's perspective, it seems the way that wars were fought changed vastly from WW1 to WW2, so how did things like small unit and armor tactics develop? Was there just a lot of terrible battle tactics at the beginning that get improved over the years or what? I guess basically my question is how do armies invent new tactics in peacetime, and how well does that work?
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Jan 19, 2017 19:25
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This CIA record dump is great. Among all the vague descriptions of phantom Soviet tanks there's a perfect description of the Yugoslavian Vozilo A, but that is the file they chose to slap a huge THIS IS UNVERIFIED INFORMATION stamp on. 45 ton Sherman with a 7 man crew and a squeezebore gun? Sure. Slight modification of a T-34 tank? Can't be!
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Jan 19, 2017 19:31
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zoux posted:How did countries go about developing the doctrine (and what would you call it?) used to fight WW2 between WW1 and 1939? From my layman's perspective, it seems the way that wars were fought changed vastly from WW1 to WW2, so how did things like small unit and armor tactics develop? Was there just a lot of terrible battle tactics at the beginning that get improved over the years or what? I guess basically my question is how do armies invent new tactics in peacetime, and how well does that work? As far as I understand it, development of new tactics relies on wargaming, military exercises, experimentation, and new technologies. Take the Louisiana Manoeuvres, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Maneuvers, for example. Or, for new tech/units, Paratroopers only really came about in the mid 1930's thanks to the Russians, with other nations seeing them drill/exercise and drawing up their own plans for them. The Germans used them in ways that would help their blitzkrieg methods of warfare, such as with the capture of the Fort Eben-Emael. But these had to be trained, and experimented with before they could be attempted. A lot of refining of tactics happened after battles occurred and each force could determine the causes for success/failure. This can be seen with the Battle of Kursk where the Germans stuck with a bad idea and tried more Blitzkrieg stuff against a good defense in depth. Or like with Operation Market Garden and Operation Merkur, where massed paratroopers suffered high casualty rates because of rash decisions and poor intel for OMG, and poor armament/drop methods for OM.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:52
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It also helps if you go on a little adventure holiday in Spain.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:03
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Zamboni Apocalypse posted:Pretty much this. Metallurgy (of weapon, projectile and casing) and propellant advances make for sometimes-startling improvements in performance - I have "vintage" (IE, antique) ammo in one particular obsolete handgun caliber that is significantly more piddly than even the not-quite-antique box, and that's (IMO) still perceivably weaker than recent-production examples. Taurus makes a Winchester 1892 chambered in .454 Casull. Beefiest cartridge that gun originally was chambered in was the .44-40, generating about 12,000 psi chamber pressure and ~680 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. With modern metallurgy (Well, it's Taurus, so take that for what it's worth), the same design holds a cartridge that generates 65,000 psi and generates 2500 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:11
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