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I support all riffs on Enes Kanter's tragic political and familial exile, even latecomers.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:08
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Cool Buff Man posted:He was a real butthead with work ethic problems at that point so you can't really hold that one against them Yeah, if you say the Kings passed on Whiteside you have to say the entire league did because he basically bounced around training camps and D-League without anyone being interested before bouncing around foreign leagues with no one being interested
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Jan 19, 2017 21:09
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Hey guys I'm completely in love with the fact that he's never had anyone upset at him for decisions he's made and it clearly bothers him.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:11
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Yeah, Whiteside was on the Raptors summer league team a couple of months before he broke out. He looked decent actually from some games I saw but was never invited to training camp.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:24
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Sheriff posted:I was skeptical of Hinkie's strategy because I thought there was a real possibility that they could be terrible for 5+ years and still not get that superstar-level player. I think the worst case scenario would have been something like Embiid never gets injured, so Philly has to take the best player available in Jabari Parker, who might have elevated them out of the chance for a likely top-3 pick while still not being good enough to lead a team to a championship all by himself. This was basically the situation with Jrue Holiday when Hinkie arrived, and he solved it by trading Holiday for picks. MCW was never that good but some people thought he would be after his ROY season, and Hinkie traded him too. The point of The Process is to get that superstar no matter what. Until you are sure you have him, everyone else is just capital to buy more chances (draft picks) to get him.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:26
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Phone posting. I was reading a pregame story about tonight's Mavs game and Cuba said they still haven't decided if they are tanking or going for the 7-8 seeds. They need to tank because getting blasted out of the first round is not as good as a top 5 pick. I think with everyone getting healthier they might be too good to get a top 5 pick unless people get traded. (And still would probably come up just short of that playoff spot.) In Dirk news, Carlisle mentioned his injury was still bothering him a little and he won't be near 100% until after asg. Some games he looks back, others Robin Lopez goes wild.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:29
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Thaddeus may be young but he delivers a man's jam!
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Jan 19, 2017 21:30
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Dejan Bimble posted:
Yep. For a variation on this theme, this is why Steph Curry goes to the floor so often, especially in traffic under the basket. Clueless people think he's flopping in order to get cheap free throws, but his free throw percentage on drives is actually really low. The refs understand that he is doing it to protect his girlyman ankles from breaking due to an awkward landing (especially landing on someone else's foot). Instead of taking any risk of bringing back his chronic ankle problems, he intentionally tumbles down safely. I think biomechanics is the next big thing in sports. predicto fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 21:31
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I was thinking about Lebron's lack of serious injuries over thousands of games, and MKG's constant string of injuries. In watching video, I would claim that the deciding factor isn't HGH or whatever botique dope Lebron is on, but gymnast/pro wrestler style body control. Lebron contorts in the air so that his body takes impacts in the safest states of relaxation/tension and in the best position possible. MKG dives like a torpedo after loose balls and lands squarely on a full retracted shoulder. Not getting injured is in cases not relating to bad dellavedova beverly knee rolls, is a skill. Having the biomechanics to not prematurely wear soft tissue is also a skill. We see in Derrick Rose how badly things can go if a player doesn't know how to safely run and jump.
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I also agree with the consensus that you need a superstar to win, and when a superstar is available on the market or potentially in the draft, you need to ignore the downsides and roll the dice. Otherwise, you get stuck forever in the land of "pretty good" along with teams like the Hawks. Right now there is one superstar potentially available on the market. Boston (and everyone else) should be cashing in all of its chips to get Boogie away from Sacramento. Sure, he's a disgruntled head case, sure it's going to be expensive, sure it might fail in a spectacular fashion - but if it works out, you potentially have what you need to dethrone Lebron and contend for a ring. Likewise, any NBA GM who uses a high draft pick on "the most NBA ready player" rather than the physical freak with enormous potential upside is an utter moron.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:42
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Does Boogie win you a finals as your best player?
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Jan 19, 2017 21:49
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who was the superstar on the 2013 almost champs and 2014 championship spurs team? 37/38 year old duncan? an even older ginobili? tony parker at 20 and 16 ppg resepctively? 20/17 for the playoffs? just wondering because it seems that those teams anomalously dodge the superstar question of course you can always say "tim duncan" because he's the rock upon which that church was built, but he wasn't exactly a superstar by that time.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:58
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euphronius posted:Does Boogie win you a finals as your best player? Because of his transcendent talent, there is a reasonable chance of it happening. That is all you can ask for. I could see a team with Boogie, Isiah Thomas, Al Horford and terrific perimeter defense winning it all. Absolutely.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:00
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euphronius posted:Does Boogie win you a finals as your best player? Questions like this are kind of really dumb because the answer is unequivocally "no" until it happens, at which point the answer is "yes". a better question is do you win an NBA championship with Vlade as your GM and Vivek as your owner. RaySmuckles posted:who was the superstar on the 2013 almost champs and 2014 championship spurs team? Occam's razor, dude. It was Kawhi Leondard. He was top 20 in WS/48 in 2014. That spurs team also featured 8 players in the top 100 in WS/48. They were stupidly deep and very good at what they did. Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 22:00
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DollyDagger posted:This was basically the situation with Jrue Holiday when Hinkie arrived, and he solved it by trading Holiday for picks. MCW was never that good but some people thought he would be after his ROY season, and Hinkie traded him too. The point of The Process is to get that superstar no matter what. Until you are sure you have him, everyone else is just capital to buy more chances (draft picks) to get him. How long can a team truly keep that up for? Hinkie was only in the third year of his process, with a light at the end of the tunnel in the form of Embiid and the best shot at the #1 pick, before he got ran out of town. It's one thing to flip MCW after a single year, his limitations were apparent and he didn't exactly go out there and earn a ton of wins for the team. It's entirely another to get someone like Jabari Parker, have him legitimately pull the team up from legendary-bad to just normal-bad, then hit reset again before you even know exactly how good he could become.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:01
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RaySmuckles posted:who was the superstar on the 2013 almost champs and 2014 championship spurs team? I dunno. When you have been as good for as long as the Spurs have, the plan may be different. But there is no other franchise like that one.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:01
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Paul Zuvella posted:Questions like this are kind of really dumb because the answer is unequivocally "no" until it happens, at which point the answer is "yes". Yeah, 4 years ago no one thought a team of Steph Curry, Andrew Bogut, Iggy and some guys on rookie contracts would have won everything either.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:02
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Dejan Bimble posted:
This is genius and I can't believe I've never thought of it. Make every hoops player learn to run ropes and take bumps. Guaranteed injuries go down.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:03
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RaySmuckles posted:who was the superstar on the 2013 almost champs and 2014 championship spurs team? They had multiple players playing at an elite level for all of their championships. Timmy was still an amazing defender and hyper efficient on offense. Kawhi was budding into one of the best two-way players in the league. They had a lot of efficient scorers. They also have the best coach in professional sports and the best shooting coach in the history of the NBA. You can do a lot with that as the starting point.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:06
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predicto posted:
I think the success of Gianis has made a lot people forget why this is such a trap There have been tons of long athletic 3/4 who never developed any NBA level skill- Derrick Williams - 7'1" wingspan, 37" vert jump, same sprint time as John Wall Joe Alexander - 7' Wingspan, 38" vert jump, better Agility and Spring times than Derek Rose Anthony Randolph - 7'3" wingpsan, 35" vert jump Like, there have been tons of guys who had the same kind of upside that never panned out
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Jan 19, 2017 22:08
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RaySmuckles posted:who was the superstar on the 2013 almost champs and 2014 championship spurs team? Kawhi was a budding superstar. They also had Pop. Having a future hall of fame coach is a huge advantage. Time posted:They had multiple players playing at an elite level for all of their championships. Timmy was still an amazing defender and hyper efficient on offense. Kawhi was budding into one of the best two-way players in the league. They had a lot of efficient scorers.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:10
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Paul Zuvella posted:Questions like this are kind of really dumb because the answer is unequivocally "no" until it happens, at which point the answer is "yes". I think the point is that it's silly to criticize Hinkie for "only" getting Embiid and Simmons out of the tank job, because assuming Embiid stays healthy and Simmons lives up to the hype, that's absolutely 2 guys you can build a championship around.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:11
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Lockback posted:Yeah, 4 years ago no one thought a team of Steph Curry, Andrew Bogut, Iggy and some guys on rookie contracts would have won everything either. 4 years ago no one thought steph would be able to stay healthy
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Jan 19, 2017 22:14
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The Glumslinger posted:I think the success of Gianis has made a lot people forget why this is such a trap I will contend that Derrick Williams was ruined by Rick Adelman until the day I die
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Jan 19, 2017 22:15
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IcePhoenix posted:I will contend that Derrick Williams was ruined by Rick Adelman until the day I die Hmm yes noted anti-player coach Rick Adelman. 
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Jan 19, 2017 22:19
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IcePhoenix posted:I will contend that Derrick Williams was ruined by Rick Adelman until the day I die Rick Adelman was ruined by Derrick Williams you will NOT disparage my man like that
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Jan 19, 2017 22:19
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IcePhoenix posted:I will contend that Derrick Williams was ruined by Rick Adelman until the day I die Do you mean the season Adelman gave up on the team? Because that wasn't until William's 3rd year and I don't think Adelman was the problem. Williams was a tweener<bad-type> and their best player already filled the "PF who isn't giving you a ton on defense" role.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:27
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The Glumslinger posted:I think the success of Gianis has made a lot people forget why this is such a trap True. But the NBA ready players who have maxed out their talent are busts a lot of the time too, and what's worse, they never have a chance of developing into a Gianis. You need a superstar to build around. Getting a superstar is never guaranteed, but NOT getting one absolutely will be guaranteed when you select the safer "nba-ready" Jahlil Okafor over the boom/bust potential of the Zinger.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:29
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Metapod posted:4 years ago no one thought steph would be able to stay healthy That's another type of rolling the dice. Sometimes guys like Steph are fixable, sometimes they turn out to be Greg Oden. But you have to roll the dice if the talent is there, or you don't have any chance of making that final breakout to a title.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:31
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Papercut posted:Hmm yes noted anti-player coach Rick Adelman. He was a terrible coach in Minnesota Lockback posted:Do you mean the season Adelman gave up on the team? Because that wasn't until William's 3rd year and I don't think Adelman was the problem. Williams was a tweener<bad-type> and their best player already filled the "PF who isn't giving you a ton on defense" role. Even his rookie year he was dicking him around the whole season, which is awful for a player's development. He was afraid to do anything at all halfway through the season because Adleman would pull him instantly.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:33
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https://twitter.com/jmanziel2/status/822193878501453826 Embiid about to be DNP -- Lost In The Sauce
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Jan 19, 2017 22:39
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straight up brolic posted:https://twitter.com/jmanziel2/status/822193878501453826 Embiid inspiring Manziel to give up his vices and turn into a good player would only grow his legend.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:42
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predicto posted:Getting a superstar is never guaranteed, but NOT getting one absolutely will be guaranteed when you select the safer "nba-ready" Jahlil Okafor over the boom/bust potential of the Zinger. This is completely in hindsight. Okafor was absolutely an upside guy, but the question was his defense. If Okafor was/is able to defend even at an NBA-average-5 level he'll be an incredibly valuable player, and a big man learning defense absolutely happens at the NBA level (and might still happen to Okafor). If Okafor ended up exploding and Porzingis was a bust you'd be talking about how obvious it is to take an upside guy like Okafor instead of a question mark like Porzingis.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:00
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Lockback posted:This is completely in hindsight. Okafor was absolutely an upside guy, but the question was his defense. If Okafor was/is able to defend even at an NBA-average-5 level he'll be an incredibly valuable player, and a big man learning defense absolutely happens at the NBA level (and might still happen to Okafor). If Okafor ended up exploding and Porzingis was a bust you'd be talking about how obvious it is to take an upside guy like Okafor instead of a question mark like Porzingis. Maybe that was a bad example. I don't remember Okafor being talked about as a big upside guy, but I often remember wrong. My point is, I won't criticize a team for taking a question mark over a more polished product. After the first one or two picks, everyone is settling in some way. I would prefer to settle for uncertainty and a higher boom/bust potential.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:10
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euphronius posted:Respectfully disagree on Harden and that rookies/players have no leverage on teams. I mean I know how RFA works, too. It's possible he would've left anyway, but they never offered him a max or a starting position. And it's not like the Rockets were on anyone's short list of teams to force their way to at that point. predicto posted:My point is, I won't criticize a team for taking a question mark over a more polished product. After the first one or two picks, everyone is settling in some way. I would prefer to settle for uncertainty and a higher boom/bust potential. I feel like this approach gets less and less viable the later you pick until you have the Spurs/Rockets drafting 6'7 power forward seniors from Nunavut University in the late first/early second and generally doing a better job of the draft than teams that go for "project" players. Most of the good question mark guys go in the top 10, most of the really good late picks have been weird players like Draymond Green and Isaiah Thomas chunkles fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 23:13
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Okafors offense was NBA ready but he's an upside guy because of the D which is Kanter level
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Jan 19, 2017 23:13
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Sheriff posted:How long can a team truly keep that up for? Hinkie was only in the third year of his process, with a light at the end of the tunnel in the form of Embiid and the best shot at the #1 pick, before he got ran out of town. It's one thing to flip MCW after a single year, his limitations were apparent and he didn't exactly go out there and earn a ton of wins for the team. It's entirely another to get someone like Jabari Parker, have him legitimately pull the team up from legendary-bad to just normal-bad, then hit reset again before you even know exactly how good he could become. I think people overstate these opinions about the Process. I don't believe Hinkie ever explicitly said he'd keep punting the ball with every single pretender star. Others have pointed some of this out already but it's important to just note the following: 1. The Sixers were en route to being REALLY bad prior to Hinkie's arrival. The Bynum trade gutted the roster with very little in return. 2. There was a lot of bad luck involved, which really throws some of the early analysis off in light of the current hype of the Embiid era. 3. Hinkie did a lot to ensure a relatively constant pipeline of young pieces (Lakers, Kings picks, getting back Sixers 2017 pick). I think the only realistic expectation that existed was that Hinkie would get a chance to bottom out, acquire as much in his 3 year plan as possible and then see what happens. It was always going to be one shot at this, good or bad. At least that's what I remember reading at the time. Thing is, the sports media and fans tend to have short attention spans and a need for quick payoffs, especially in Philly. You can see that with the relative backlash that happened against the Eagles, who prior to the season were seen as a rebuilding team, but were now treated as failures for being too good and missing the playoffs.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:16
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The Glumslinger posted:I think the success of Gianis has made a lot people forget why this is such a trap Anthony Randolph was a conventional small forward put in a taffy puller, Joe Alexander exhibited no basketball skills in college , Derrick Williams was a tweener explosive powerforward with a crazy outlier 3p shooting year that predictably didn't translate to the NBA. None of them had paper plate hands either. Giannis was unique. As for other toolsy guys, I think Westbrook, Lavine, and Norman Powell alldid well in the guard steals/rebounds metric, which is a good metric for 'explosive longness' with a little desire sprinkled in predicto posted:That's another type of rolling the dice. Sometimes guys like Steph are fixable, sometimes they turn out to be Greg Oden. But you have to roll the dice if the talent is there, or you don't have any chance of making that final breakout to a title. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 23:19
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Never change NBA https://twitter.com/deezknicks/status/822193556513320960
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Jan 19, 2017 23:20
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judge a man by the company he tweets
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Jan 19, 2017 23:23
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I feel like if the Lakers had drafted Okafor he'd probably still be at roughly the same development level but he wouldn't be getting bust shade. There wouldn't be the position drama since people weren't exactly clamoring for Randle to play at center (although, that might be where he ends up if Zubac is hype only), and he'd put up his numbers and the rest of the team is so bad defensively that a light wouldn't really be shown on his d that much. The advanced stat guys would attack the Lakers' playstyle but I'll let you know the next time an advanced stats argument changes a Lakers fans' mind.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:23
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