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Vladimir Putin posted:Why would you want to assume the liabilities of those banks into the federal budget? That just boggles my mind. Those banks suck and they are failing, why do you want to tie the government and the taxpayer (i.e. everyone) to a loving sinking ship? You write off the liabilities, you take the assets, you fire all the employees and then you rehire the ones you want as federal employees. That happens all the time and banks even have a department for it called "Merger's and Acquisitions." The Federal Government can do the same.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:54
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Fullhouse posted:instead of arresting or removing the idiot dicks who caused this crisis, we'll loan them enough money to not go bankrupt, allow their firms to give them seven-figure bonuses for being so good at receiving loans, let them cannibalize the other institutions that went bankrupt already, and appoint a few of them to Treasury positions so they can do this again once our party is no longer in power so we can keep the cycle going forever  except the goon is obama
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Jan 19, 2017 17:55
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Vladimir Putin posted:Why would you want to assume the liabilities of those banks into the federal budget? That just boggles my mind. Those banks suck and they are failing, why do you want to tie the government and the taxpayer (i.e. everyone) to a loving sinking ship? because the US treasury doesn't actually have to worry about solvency, my man but then i'm a bit of a neo-chartalist
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Jan 19, 2017 17:58
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:You write off the liabilities, you take the assets, you fire all the employees and then you rehire the ones you want as federal employees. That happens all the time and banks even have a department for it called "Merger's and Acquisitions." The Federal Government can do the same. Let them write off the liabilities and then take over afterwards is the real way to do it. All these blanket suggestions for bank nationalization are just awful and haven't really been thought out well.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:10
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Obama got elected twice on the back of his amazing talent for oration, then in 8 years used the bully pulpit to stump for exactly...nothing. BUT HE HAD TO RESPECT THE DECORUM OF THE OFFICE!
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Jan 19, 2017 18:24
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:It's something that can be unilaterally accomplished by the president and would take a common tool away form law-enforcement to stop them from abusing as much. The only reason not to do it is malice. But if its a BLACK DUDE who legalizes weed everyone will be like 'A BLACK DUDE DID IT, OBAMA LIKE WEED! OBAMA THE BLACK WEED MAN! EVERYONE LOOK!!!!' and then they'll all  and look down on him for saving the black community from needless oppression and discrimination. Can't have that as a legacy, better to have TRUMP!!!!! Seriously let's just continue to have a stupid and self destructive habit allow police to ruin the lives of poor people and minorities. I am coming around to LIKING the prison industrial complex and I recommend it to anyone and everyone! *dies in a concentration camp*  Also I'm still 'in over letting the GOP hang the mantle of Wall Street cronyism on Obama instead of acting like someone who isn't a bitch and taking high finance to the mattresses. What a master of political warfare.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:32
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Vladimir Putin posted:Most of the illegal activities were by the mortgage brokers and people selling the mortgages to people. Wall Street created a demand that incentivized people to break the law to satisfy these demands but that isn't illegal. The collapse of Bear Stearns and Lehman were literally the result of an illegal conspiracy. Wall Street was hemorrhaging money, so government officials and the other major financial institutions engineered the sacrifice and cannibalization of the weaker members of the herd to protect the profits and existence of the rest. There were secret meetings going on in the lead up (whose existence was later leaked) to the official outbreak of the crisis. First Bear Stearns stopped getting invited, then suffered a plague of financial and regulatory warfare a couple weeks later. The the exact same thing happened to Lehman. It was a controlled demolition of the financial sector designed to protect the most powerful and connected and bury the dumbasses who didn't have the foresight to be massively rich and connected.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:57
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Bear Sterns got bought by JP Morgan and attempts were made to save Lehman until the end.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:28
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Vladimir Putin posted:Again I won't put myself and taxpayers into the same sinking ship as a failing bank just to purge these guys. You do realize the USA is currently around 19 Trillion dollars in deficit right? I highly doubt BoA and etc would've mattered.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:59
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Peanut President posted:You do realize the USA is currently around 19 Trillion dollars in deficit right? I highly doubt BoA and etc would've mattered. I think it matters when the entire budget per year is between 3-4 trillion. The true extent of losses was unknown at the time because of the complexity of the instruments but some estimated the upper limit to be several trillion. Instead of pulling the American people into that loving mess with unknown liability, why not just do what the government did and limit your risk to a known number. It's the loving responsible thing to do frankly.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:09
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And to add one more point a lot of people were unhappy that the loans to AIG were used to pay Goldman Sachs as a result of credit default swaps. I'm loving happy that ultimately AIG was the one that paid Goldman and the government got its money back. If you nationalize AIG then the government would be the one directly paying back Goldman. I'm pretty happy that loving didn't happen.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:14
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So you are okay with the idea of nationalization, just not in the idiotic manner you cooked up in your head?
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Jan 19, 2017 21:22
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Vladimir Putin posted:That was a huge risk. Intelligence never saw bin laden there for sure. He invaded an allied country (Pakistan) without telling them. And one helicopter crashed. If things went bad, he would have been a one term president. So all things said, it was a huge risk. And if you think about it, he didn't even have to do it. He could have just watched a little longer; it wasn't an immediate threat the US.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:26
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Fiction posted:So you are okay with the idea of nationalization, just not in the idiotic manner you cooked up in your head? Dude nationalization means assuming assets and debts. That's stupid. Another way to do it is have them write off their debts and then assume control. By that time they don't need you because if they successfully fight off their creditors they are pretty much out of trouble. You can nationalize banks before they get into trouble but what's the point. Just go ahead and make a government banking sector. That has its own merits but it's another discussion. The way nationalization of banks in the crisis is being talked about here isn't well thought out. I think the government did the right thing. Limit taxpayer risk by giving them a loan to fix their own bullshit. If they fail you have a known loss amount. If they succeed you get your money back plus some basis points. That's really the best solution in 2008/2009.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:27
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Orrrr you can do that and then nationalize them anyway for loving up so badly and use their super profits to give people health care or something.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:29
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Fiction posted:Orrrr you can do that and then nationalize them anyway for loving up so badly and use their super profits to give people health care or something. So this is all just punishment?
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Jan 19, 2017 21:32
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Vladimir Putin posted:So this is all just punishment? Yes. The bankers were lucky we didn't enact peoples justice on them and Obama let them off with the opposite of a slap on the wrist.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:33
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Fiction posted:Yes. The bankers were lucky we didn't enact peoples justice on them and Obama let them off with the opposite of a slap on the wrist. Ok then the real issue is civil/criminal cases then why do we want to take over their companies.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:39
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Vladimir Putin posted:So this is all just punishment? Banking is a privilege. Losing a privilege isn't necessarily a punishment.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:39
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Vladimir Putin posted:Ok then the real issue is civil/criminal cases then why do we want to take over their companies. their profits would be better spent on the people in whole instead of in whatever part is taxed at the current shamefully low rate
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Jan 19, 2017 21:44
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So in other words this is all pure fantasy.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:46
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Vladimir Putin posted:So this is all just punishment? They'd still be getting off easy, all things considered. Vladimir Putin posted:So in other words this is all pure fantasy. I mean, Iceland has an elf rights party, but it's still something that happened.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:47
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Vladimir Putin posted:So in other words this is all pure fantasy. Things are possible.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:48
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Fiction posted:Orrrr you can do that and then nationalize them anyway for loving up so badly and use their super profits to give people health care or something. The federal government permanently assuming massive powers out of spite is an extremely good idea imo
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Jan 19, 2017 22:11
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General Dog posted:The federal government permanently assuming massive powers out of spite is an extremely good idea imo I don't know man. Assuming a bank's debts and then writing them off will be great for America's credit rating. In all seriousness all these punitive nationalization schemes are pure fantasy and make absolutely no sense.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:21
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General Dog posted:The federal government permanently assuming massive powers out of spite is an extremely good idea imo When it's used to punish the hyper elite banking class I fully agree.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:23
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Fiction posted:When it's used to punish the hyper elite banking class I fully agree. I personally like to dream of a world where hate doesn't exist. Your fantasy worlds are really not ambitious at all.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:25
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If a board of directors of a company uses their absurd wealth to catastrophic effect then it should be taken away from them. The next Democrat should honestly run on the platform that the 1% are lucky they aren't swinging from the lampposts and anything else that happens to them is just gravy.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:26
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Vladimir Putin posted:I personally like to dream of a world where hate doesn't exist. Your fantasy worlds are really not ambitious at all. Why is the government not being run by and for the financial oligarchy a fantasy to you? Are you forums poster Mitt Romney?
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Jan 19, 2017 22:27
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Fiction posted:Why is the government not being run by and for the financial oligarchy a fantasy to you? Are you forums poster Mitt Romney? No I am forums poster Vladimir Putin
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Jan 19, 2017 22:28
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Vladimir Putin posted:No I am forums poster Vladimir Putin Ok well you are more of a pansy than Obama.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:29
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Vladimir Putin posted:I personally like to dream of a world where hate doesn't exist. Your fantasy worlds are really not ambitious at all. a world where hate doesnt exist and a world without bankers are one and the same comrade
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Jan 19, 2017 22:30
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Obama's presidency was a massive kick in the teeth for the working class and can be best described as a huge waste of time.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:32
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Terror Sweat posted:a world where hate doesnt exist and a world without bankers are one and the same comrade Wrong one is a subset of another.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:43
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Vladimir Putin posted:Wrong one is a subset of another. Indeed, I can imagine a world where there are no bankers but hate still exists.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:00
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General Dog posted:The federal government permanently assuming massive powers out of spite is an extremely good idea imo You realize that nationalization is effectively what happened when the US government bailed out the auto industry? They became stakeholders with a controlling interest, but instead of actually exercising the power that entitles they just did it to keep those companies afloat and renegotiate union contracts. Vladimir Putin posted:I don't know man. Assuming a bank's debts and then writing them off will be great for America's credit rating. You're a loving idiot who doesn't understand how buying out companies actually works. Especially not when that buyer can exercise eminent domain and set the terms of exchange by fiat.
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Jan 20, 2017 00:48
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last page people were talking about obama bailing out the banks vs nationalizing them but they were already bailed out before he was even elected let alone in office its v. weird how much history is already rewritten in peoples brains
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Jan 20, 2017 00:59
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Peanut President posted:You do realize the USA is currently around 19 Trillion dollars in deficit right? I highly doubt BoA and etc would've mattered. hi deficit is not debt
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Jan 20, 2017 01:02
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Vladimir Putin posted:In all seriousness all these punitive nationalization schemes are pure fantasy and make absolutely no sense. wut about frannie mae and freddie mac
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Jan 20, 2017 01:05
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does literally a single American remember or understand what happened in the bush admin jesus gently caress
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Jan 20, 2017 01:09
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