Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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sitchensis: Mar 4, 2009

Christ, I grew up in Nanaimo.

How many goddamn Nanaimoites are there?

edit: I knew three Crystals

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:03

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:48

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Xaranthius posted:

I work for Real Estate Webmasters, which is apropos given the subject of this thread.

How is it there? For like 3 months last year they/LinkedIn kept trying to head hunt me. However my many years of internet experience has taught me that real estate on the internet is either dirty (e.g. black hat) or clueless ("what do you mean I can't make everyone in BC visit my site???")

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:04

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I grew up in Victoria, I miss it :sigh:

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:05

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

quote:

Niels Bendtsen is one of Vancouver's longest-standing design and manufacturing success stories. He has been designing and making furniture in Vancouver since 1963 and his Ribbon Chair sits in the permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York. But a recent eye-popping property tax assessment has Mr. Bendtsen considering if he should relocate his business to another city.

Mr. Bendtsen owns warehouse, manufacturing and office space in Railtown, which is part of the Downtown Eastside. The rundown area near the city's industrial waterfront had long been ignored. But nearby residential real estate prices have skyrocketed, gentrification is pushing eastward, and even an area strictly zoned for industry is feeling the pressure of greater demand.

A couple of high-priced recent sales and increased interest in the area have meant major jumps in property values. Mr. Bendtsen's property at 365 Railway St. tripled in value: It was assessed this month at $12.245-million, compared with $3.93-million the year before. In 2016, he paid $60,307 in taxes on the property; based on the 2017 value, his taxes will climb to $147,000.

Mr. Bendtsen's property at 405 Railway was just assessed at $14.512-million, up from $5.751-million last year. In 2016, he paid $68,852 in taxes. Based on the 2017 value, his taxes will be an estimated $175,000.

Mr. Bendtsen says it's unfair to penalize small and mid-size businesses that bring manufacturing jobs to the city. He has 75 employees in Railtown; however, he is considering a move to Toronto, where commercial properties are much cheaper.

"[The city] says they want this type of business down there, and yet they are taxing us out of there," says Mr. Bendtsen.

"I was going to develop one of the properties, build on it and make a new building. But with these tax rates, there's no way of doing it," he says. "Of course I can sell them, but that's not really what I felt like doing. I want to be in business."

Paul Sullivan, of property tax consultants Burgess Cawley Sullivan & Associates, says he's preparing for what could turn into the "biggest tax revolt in Canadian history." Although Railtown was one of the hardest hit areas, Mr. Sullivan says Vancouver's insane property market is wreaking havoc for businesses throughout the city. In the West End, on major shopping streets like Denman, Robson and Davie streets, it's the small retailers getting hit hard.

Mr. Bendtsen and several other businesses around the city have hired Mr. Sullivan to appeal the assessments. He expects more to sign on to appeal before the deadline at the end of the month. He says his inbox is full of unread e-mails from angry businesses.

He cites a restaurant at 703 Denman St., that has risen in value by 268 per cent from last year, with new taxes estimated to increase to $614,000 from about $229,000. He says a public market building at 1610 Robson is also facing a 268-per-cent increase in value, with taxes estimated to rise to $727,000 from $272,000.

Tenants running small businesses, which make up most of Railtown, will be hardest hit, Mr. Sullivan says. The majority of leases in Vancouver are "triple net," which means the tenant pays the landlord the rent, but is also responsible for maintenance and property taxes. With an unexpectedly huge tax hike, many businesses won't survive, he says.

Mr. Sullivan says a couple of factors are at play in the industrial area: assessments in previous years were likely lower than actual market value and buyers are moving into the area and paying unexpectedly high prices.

He says part of the problem is that like many municipalities, Vancouver assessments are based on the potential for development of the property, as opposed to actual use. Also, city policies are having an impact. In the West End, the city has rezoned for significantly more high-density residential, which has driven up prices. The change could signal a similar move in the east side of the city.

"Density is good, but density drives value," says Mr. Sullivan. "In the case of the West End, what has happened is we've allowed residential density� and that has driven these values out of sight. You are going to destroy every local independent business during the process."

Mr. Sullivan has joined city councillors Geoff Meggs and Raymond Louie, as well as the Urban Development Institute � which represents the development industry � to ask the province to rewrite legislation on how small businesses are taxed. The goal, he says, is to bring property values in line with actual use.

"If we've got a cruddy little building that a guy is using for an incubator business, and that's all they can afford, the assessment should reflect that cruddy little building and not a beautiful redevelopment at three times the price," he says. "But half the values are based on redevelopment."

Mr. Louie, acting mayor and former finance chair, says the city's hands are tied because of the valuations made by BC Assessment, a Crown corporation that assesses all B.C. properties. Only a change in legislation can help small businesses, he says.

"I am worried about these small businesses continuing on, when the tax bill continues to rise because of the way BC Assessment assigns values to these properties � Ultimately, the resolution to this lies at the province's feet."

Jason Grant, BC Assessment's assessor for Greater Vancouver, says B.C.'s system is one of the purest examples of a market value system that is measured annually.

"At the end of the day, the taxes you pay relative to others are based on the market value of your property. If you have a property worth twice as much as someone else, you are going to pay twice as much in taxes."

He adds that he's open to hearing concerns, and "walking people through" their assessments.

As for Railtown, Mr. Sullivan believes that there's an inconsistency in the assessments, which will probably form the basis of their appeal.

Steven Fast, a commercial real estate broker and long-time landowner in Railtown, says he is among the businesses that will appeal. He believes the values are too high relative to similar buildings in gentrified mixed-use areas, such as Gastown and Yaletown.

"The increase is so dramatic I think somebody has made an error," says Mr. Fast. "I'm sure every owner will appeal it. I expect everyone will."

He also acknowledges that property owners are benefiting from the situation, since their values are tripling. On the downside, it means that anyone wanting to run a business is losing.

"The sad part is that Mr. Niels' manufacturing business can't survive on Railway. The unsad part is that his property has at least quadrupled in value."

the poor small businessman with $30 million in real estate :qq:

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:12

Descend to slumber: May 12, 2001

Xaranthius posted:

I've known at least three, but yeah two were from Crofton or thereabouts.

I'm 40 years old, and growing up in Nanaimo was actually very nice. I got to roam around forests, pastures, as well as play street hockey along streets that are now major arteries. Just about every plot of land has been developed in the last 15 years or so, I don't understand why all the people moving here are doing so, nor what the hell they do for work, but the city does appear to be growing. I've long said that Nanaimo will end up as a suburb of Vancouver given the commute times between here and there compared to what some people do in the lower mainland. And given it is central to getting to Victoria, the west coast, has decent amenities like a decent hospital, decent schools, I have three different grocery stores in walking distance, I can walk to many playgrounds or the waterfront with my kids, there are good reasons for me to stay here.

I'm in my mid-thirties, I grew up in the Comox Valley and wound up living here and working for an engineering/enviro/whatever company. We have a pretty small office, and we've had a few people move here from other parts of the province/country but even with all of Vancouver Island from basically Mill Bay north as our territory it's hard to find much in the way of work here.

I have no idea how people living in this town make money - there's no major industry except for a pulp mill. I assume that we've got a bunch of people that work/worked in the tar sands living here that just flew out to commute but that seems unlikely at this point.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:27

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Ugh stop calling the dtes ~railtown~

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:33

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

My wife knows a bunch of people in Nanaimo through work and they are all happy there because they'd make the same money in Victoria but houses are cheaper there. Insurance is a thing that's needed everywhere humans are. In fact on the gulf islands working in one of the tiny little insurance offices is one of the few normal full time jobs you can have. All those luxury cabins need insurance, people renew their boat insurance, everyone needs car insurance.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:36

Atma McCuddles: Sep 2, 2007

We just moved to a small town north of Courtenay. How hosed are we? Measurements from 'Anne Frank in attic' to 'Forrest Gump' thanks.

Atma McCuddles fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 20, 2017

# ? Jan 20, 2017 02:53

upgunned shitpost: Jan 21, 2015

I liked Campbell River, your edit will not save you.

Trees and ocean, a nice place to be. Get a dog, live the good and quiet life. There's a reason Walden wasn't written in a studio apartment around Coal Harbour.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 03:01

French Canadian: Feb 23, 2004; Fluffy cat sensory experience

namaste faggots posted:

are you loving stupid

Sorry namaste I don't live in Canada. But my citizenship certificate is coming in the mail soon. Maybe we can hang out?

# ? Jan 20, 2017 03:31

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Campbell River is pretty nice, hasn't been hit by the insanity prices that Courtenay has and the whole North Island is pretty nice really. If I don't move back to Revelstoke, I'll probably head to the North Island or the Charlottes in the next few years.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 03:36

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Xaranthius posted:

I've long said that Nanaimo will end up as a suburb of Vancouver given the commute times between here and there compared to what some people do in the lower mainland.

The only other people saying this are developers and real estate agents in Nanaimo.

I don't buy it ever really happening. Maybe for a few dudes who can afford to fly often.

Probably never going to be a bridge, ferry alone exceeds most people's commute time pain threshold, and you still have to get to the drat thing then to your place of work. Too long and too much uncertainty.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 04:24

yippee cahier: Mar 28, 2005

Maybe the next time some media empire has to lay off a bunch of journalists they could start with the people who think property taxes go up at the same rate that property assessments do. Thanks.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 04:47

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

yippee cahier posted:

Maybe the next time some media empire has to lay off a bunch of journalists they could start with the people who think property taxes go up at the same rate that property assessments do. Thanks.

Actually they do. It's like how you have to be careful not to get too big a raise or you'll be in a bigger tax bracket.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 04:49

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

The Butcher posted:

The only other people saying this are developers and real estate agents in Nanaimo.

I don't buy it ever really happening. Maybe for a few dudes who can afford to fly often.

Probably never going to be a bridge, ferry alone exceeds most people's commute time pain threshold, and you still have to get to the drat thing then to your place of work. Too long and too much uncertainty.

Same people who've been peddling that line for as long as I can remember.

I know people who commute but they usually limit it to two or three times a week and work from home or a Nanaimo office as much as possible. The harbour to harbour seaplanes are getting expensive and walking on the B.C. ferries must be 5+ hours by the time you get downtown and return.

Isn't there something in the works for another harbour to harbour fast cat passenger ferry? That's always popular with the commuters for a year or two until it goes bankrupt.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 07:08

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

You know why they go bankrupt? How do you make money on a luxury when your market are paupers

# ? Jan 20, 2017 07:28

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hey look guys I boat commute to my $75k year job

# ? Jan 20, 2017 07:29

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

They should use those bathtub boats they used to race but I haven't heard about that in forever.

Probably the fast ferries fault, somehow.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 11:25

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

leftist heap posted:

Actually they do. It's like how you have to be careful not to get too big a raise or you'll be in a bigger tax bracket.

Unless the municipality decides they need more money or your property raises in value more than others your property taxes wont go up even if your property appreciates greatly, in fact they can go down if yours appreciates relatively less than others.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 14:33

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

cowofwar posted:

Unless the municipality decides they need more money or your property raises in value more than others your property taxes wont go up even if your property appreciates greatly, in fact they can go down if yours appreciates relatively less than others.

My property value went up and also my property taxes went up sooo the correlation is pretty obvious. What's city hall got to do with it? It's those idiots at BC Assessments who have no clue how real estate actually works.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 17:02

Evis: Feb 28, 2007; Flying Spaghetti Monster

leftist heap posted:

My property value went up and also my property taxes went up sooo the correlation is pretty obvious. What's city hall got to do with it? It's those idiots at BC Assessments who have no clue how real estate actually works.

I suspect the employees at BC assessment aren't as stupid as you suggest, but I don't know any so who knows. Also this: Vancouver property tax rates keep dropping.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 17:52

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

leftist heap posted:

My property value went up and also my property taxes went up sooo the correlation is pretty obvious. What's city hall got to do with it? It's those idiots at BC Assessments who have no clue how real estate actually works.

The municipality decides how much money they need to levy from property taxes each year. That amount is then distributed over all the properties based on their value.

If the city needs $1,000,000 and you own 1% of all the property based on value (let's say you own $10,000,000 total value) you pay $10,000.

Now if the city the next year decided they still only need $1,000,000 but your property increased in value 10x but remained at 1% of all the properties assessed based on value you would still only pay $10,000 in tax.

If everyone else's property went up by 100% but yours only went up 50% then you would now own relatively less of the total market (0.5%) so your taxes would be $5,000. A decrease despite an increase in property values.

Conversely if your property maintained valuation but everyone else was devalued by 50% then you would now owe $20,000 in taxes.

The point is there is some arbitrarily set number representing the revenues needed by the city that is spread over all the properties based on their values. It's not a simple x% tax applied on value.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 18:02

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

cowofwar posted:

The point is there is some arbitrarily set number representing the revenues needed by the city that is spread over all the properties based on their values. It's not a simple x% tax applied on value.

And then there can be different rates for different types of residential, commercial, etc. that make up the overall tax increase percentage you hear on the news anyway.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 18:06

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

christ i thought my comment on tax brackets would have made it pretty obvious that i was joking

# ? Jan 20, 2017 18:15

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

You were joking but it's always good to explain how municipal property taxes are so drat counter-intuitive to everybody.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 18:18

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Evis posted:

I suspect the employees at BC assessment aren't as stupid as you suggest, but I don't know any so who knows. Also this: Vancouver property tax rates keep dropping.

yeah well my property "value" may have tripled but my salary hasn't!!!

# ? Jan 20, 2017 18:29

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Just take away private ownership, nationalize all the property and the Chinese investors will go away and we can focus on craft beer.

# ? Jan 20, 2017 18:58

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

leftist heap posted:

christ i thought my comment on tax brackets would have made it pretty obvious that i was joking

I got your joke at least :agesilaus:

# ? Jan 20, 2017 19:10

Vehementi: Jul 25, 2003; YOSPOS

leftist heap posted:

the poor small businessman with $30 million in real estate

I can't loving stand it when people call anything that negatively affects them somebody "penalizing" them. Oh it's so unfair that my property value tripled and you are penalizing my poor small business. :fuckoff:

# ? Jan 20, 2017 23:22

Diamato: Jul 17, 2006; Everybody's got a price for the Million Dollar Man

Not really housing related but the guy was from EDM so whatever. I feel bad the guy thought suicide was his only option but holy gently caress a quick google search would have let him know this is 100% a loving scam.

# ? Jan 21, 2017 01:09

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

This realtor left a flyer in my mailbox.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristi-holz-aa7bb064/

I know a bunch of you all are like HAW HAW HAW MATH IS USELESS LOOK I'M STUDYING POLITICAL THEORY I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE but take it from me, this woman's undergrad is nothing to sneeze at and she's very intelligent.

I'm posting this because this is second most awful example of a waste of resources I've seen in Vancouver. This woman, for whatever reason, ended up in the trash heap human detritus that is customer service in the tourism industry and has become a successful realtor. I don't begrudge her for becoming successful but in any alpha++ city she should be doing something much more productive than loving selling condos.

Here's probably the worst example:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginarossi78/

in case you ignoramuses are wondering, a Phd in experimental medicine isn't chiropracty or homeopathy

what I'm saying is, BC's economy is so royally hosed and distorted by real estate, the repercussions will reverberate for decades

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:09

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

Lobok posted:

You were joking but it's always good to explain how municipal property taxes are so drat counter-intuitive to everybody.

If property taxes were levied in the intuitive way people think they are, cities might actually be able to afford things like public transit and infrastructure improvement without having to beg the provincial and federal governments.

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:16

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Those are a pretty great example of how the BC / Canadian economy is so loving hollowed now, CI. This was a good post.

:yeah:

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:31

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

namaste faggots posted:

This realtor left a flyer in my mailbox.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristi-holz-aa7bb064/

I know a bunch of you all are like HAW HAW HAW MATH IS USELESS LOOK I'M STUDYING POLITICAL THEORY I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE but take it from me, this woman's undergrad is nothing to sneeze at and she's very intelligent.

I'm posting this because this is second most awful example of a waste of resources I've seen in Vancouver. This woman, for whatever reason, ended up in the trash heap human detritus that is customer service in the tourism industry and has become a successful realtor. I don't begrudge her for becoming successful but in any alpha++ city she should be doing something much more productive than loving selling condos.

Here's probably the worst example:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginarossi78/

in case you ignoramuses are wondering, a Phd in experimental medicine isn't chiropracty or homeopathy

what I'm saying is, BC's economy is so royally hosed and distorted by real estate, the repercussions will reverberate for decades

this all sounds crazy to me, according to this thread these people should be making seven figures scamming mopes on wall st with whiz bang math talk. But the really odd thing is why she thinks all this math background is something to advertise in her realtor speal, like I'm supposed to trust her to do a god job selling houses because she's great at math? You can learn how to sell houses in a loving week.

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:34

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Aw man that is so depressing.

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:34

Fuzzy Mammal: Aug 15, 2001; Lipstick Apathy

Yeah now imagine if you have that degree yourself :suicide:

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:37

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Throatwarbler posted:

this all sounds crazy to me, according to this thread these people should be making seven figures scamming mopes on wall st with whiz bang math talk. But the really odd thing is why she thinks all this math background is something to advertise in her realtor speal, like I'm supposed to trust her to do a god job selling houses because she's great at math? You can learn how to sell houses in a loving week.

Are you even employed

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:39

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

namaste faggots posted:

Are you even employed

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:40

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Here's a LinkedIn protip, gaps in employment and education history look very very bad.

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:44

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:48

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

namaste faggots posted:

I know a bunch of you all are like HAW HAW HAW MATH IS USELESS LOOK I'M STUDYING POLITICAL THEORY I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE but take it from me, this woman's undergrad is nothing to sneeze at and she's very intelligent.

2008 RIM snapped her, saw that a few times.

# ? Jan 21, 2017 02:48

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