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Discendo Vox posted:That's the fun part- this was literally in the context of discussing other things for OD, such as reducing and fixing the dumb enemy health and damage. People respond with "no, just buff my weapon". Also, OD viable weapons and builds make anything short of OD stupidly easy now. I walk through DW now and treat it almost like Overkill.
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Jan 19, 2017 08:58
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I'm not against stealth existing in the game. People enjoy it - I can't understand it, but they do - so they should get a chance to play what they enjoy. But forced stealth is a rubbish idea. I would like to do Shadow Raid loud; Meltdown is the same map but the dynamic is not the same. Murky Station is a unique map that might be fun loud as well. There is no valid reason at all for forced stealth heists, in-universe or out.FAUXTON posted:I think you're on to something here, but I think I've maybe played the game 5 times in the past year despite vaguely keeping aware of all the changes and loud isn't that great anymore since shotguns aren't what they used to be and I've given up on ever hoping the game will return to the times when you could be reasonably self-sufficient with two shotguns, ammo bags, and a techforcer-ish build. Everything that does enough damage (sup Breaker) is utter poo poo on ammo, everything that's good with ammo isn't the wrathful scythe of copdeath the Loco or Raven used to be. Everything's always a weird dodge build or focused on rifles and SMGs, the game I know and love has become strange and uncomfortable. Not really. The Izhma and Reinfeld are still incredible at killing and ammo efficiency on DW and below, and the Izhma is even viable on OD. I use both with an Anarchist armour build without dodge, and the build will probably work well with Armourer as well if you don't have the Sydney DLC.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:53
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If you love stealth and want to play more stealth levels you should probably go buy a stealth game
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Jan 19, 2017 10:55
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Are you still stuck in October 2015 if you think shotguns are garbage? Also they weren't actually garbage they just got nerfed to be "not as good".
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Jan 19, 2017 10:56
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:The best way to fix stealth would be to take the entire mechanic and slam dunk it into a loving dumpster because it sucks an absolutely incredible amount Prokhor Zakharov posted:If you love stealth and want to play more stealth levels you should probably go buy a stealth game Thank you for illustrating the playerbase problem.
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Jan 19, 2017 13:39
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FAUXTON posted:I think you're on to something here, but I think I've maybe played the game 5 times in the past year despite vaguely keeping aware of all the changes and loud isn't that great anymore since shotguns aren't what they used to be and I've given up on ever hoping the game will return to the times when you could be reasonably self-sufficient with two shotguns, ammo bags, and a techforcer-ish build. Everything that does enough damage (sup Breaker) is utter poo poo on ammo, everything that's good with ammo isn't the wrathful scythe of copdeath the Loco or Raven used to be. Everything's always a weird dodge build or focused on rifles and SMGs, the game I know and love has become strange and uncomfortable.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:21
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Have you tried an Anarchist FrenZerker build with a Steakout? I call it the Chairface Special since he enlightened me. We both use a single fire modded AA12 but I am sure other shotguns could be used - we both have tailored the build to our tastes. With the way shotguns work teamed with Aced Bullseye makes it impossible to go down unless you get into deep poo poo. The best part is that it is 100% ammo independent even without Fully Loaded. You wear an LBV and can fit in Inspire and other utility skills without hamstringing the build. Note that snipers will down the player instantly if they hit with this build, at least on the higher difficulties.
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Jan 19, 2017 15:02
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Discendo Vox posted:Note that snipers will down the player instantly if they hit with this build, at least on the higher difficulties.
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Jan 19, 2017 15:30
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i feel like Sociopath should make melee weapons charge in half the time since melee has been mostly downgraded to "take bloodthirst aced, shoot a bunch of guys and then poke a guy"
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Jan 19, 2017 16:42
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Jules appears to have been snorting crushed up loot dice- his plan is to revamp the melee weapons so that they have an arc effect very similar to Vermintide. He also plans to give you the ability to have the melee weapon out at all times, either as (a) a dedicated build or (b) default, as a weapon slot. Now, why he needed to nerf/homogenize all the melee weapon damage at this point is a very good question, especially when melee wasn't OPTIMAL to begin with.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:12
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^ if that's true ...  i feel it may be time to uninstall this game Wastrel_ posted:There is no valid reason at all for forced stealth heists, in-universe or out. Yes, there is. You just refuse to admit it because you dislike stealth so much you refuse to acknowledge any could exist. There's a difference. This post, for example, is utter poo poo: Wastrel_ posted:not make stealth a more attractive option by penalizing people who like to play heists loud. There are like fifty heists in this game now and how many are stealth only? I think three. Let's flip this: How many are loud-only, and thus "penalizing" people who prefer stealth? A much larger number than three. And you want to pretend you're being penalized? Nonsense. First, nobody is. Second, if anyone was, it wouldn't be you. Discendo Vox posted:A big root problem here is that the people who don't like stealth find it a huge imposition that stealth exists in the game- especially that stealth only heists exist. They've built their identity around it. lmao at how chillingly accurate this is. from vox. that's right, me agreeing with Vox. You know you hosed up if that's true  Psion fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 18:34
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Psion posted:^ if that's true ... Fwiw once that's implemented it could be good, idk. It's just that the ~50 melee weapons don't really need to be "balanced", and dropping their damage through the floor doesn't seem to accomplish anything in the meantime. I don't think car shop should even count as stealth only- it's its own aberration. It's pretty clear from the design (especially the hidden triggers) that it was always seen as a sort of forced tutorial on ECM chaining.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:52
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bootcha will like it
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Jan 19, 2017 19:09
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Discendo Vox posted:Jules appears to have been snorting crushed up loot dice- his plan is to revamp the melee weapons so that they have an arc effect very similar to Vermintide. He also plans to give you the ability to have the melee weapon out at all times, either as (a) a dedicated build or (b) default, as a weapon slot. Now, why he needed to nerf/homogenize all the melee weapon damage at this point is a very good question, especially when melee wasn't OPTIMAL to begin with. This sounds dumb. I can't wait to kick tons of pubbies for dying a lot because they want to try a melee build on Goat Simulator Deathwish. Why not just add charging while sprinting and be done with it? Why are they wasting resources trying to make melee "viable" as its own play style in a game where you spend time cop shooting and maybe occasionally meleeing somebody to save ammo? But who knows. Maybe it will be good. I spent a lot of time saying the skills rebalance was going to be dumb but here we are now, after 3 massive gamechanging updates and the only good one was the skills rebalance. Psion posted:^ if that's true ... I just naturally assumed you'd already uninstalled since I can't remember the last time I saw you play it. I think when Scarface dropped? Then again almost everyone I know just logs in to get the new achievements then stops until more achievements come. Discendo Vox posted:A big root problem here is that the people who don't like stealth find it a huge imposition that stealth exists in the game- especially that stealth only heists exist. They've built their identity around it. As an avowed cop clicking goon, I have no problem with stealth. In fact, let me show you my favourite weapon for stealthing Trustee Bank: an RPG covered in dolla dolla billz. Because when you leave no witnesses alive, that's stealthy.   Fun fact: The RPG warhead is loaded in upside down but it is only noticeable with a skin equipped, especially this one since it's an entirely new model on the warhead. 
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Jan 19, 2017 19:22
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Wait wait wait I haven't played the game since Golden Grin, what did they do to shotguns? 
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Jan 19, 2017 19:25
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mp5 posted:Wait wait wait I haven't played the game since Golden Grin, what did they do to shotguns? Directly, nothing, but with the Housewarming update, a set of sweeping changes were added that I've detailed further upthread. The upshot is that enemies on the highest difficulties have absolutely absurd amounts of health that make only a few builds/weaponsets useable. OD in particular triples the HP of DW enemies.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:29
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Put 28 points into Berserker/Frenzy or 12 points into Aced Specialized Killing. Get used to clicking twice as many cops as before. Otherwise your precious shotguns are fine.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:33
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Yeah, you can still do fine with shotguns, they aren't the problem. The problem is how they interact with the other stupid poo poo in the Jules Era - but that's true of every weapon type. So if you find shotguns underwhelming, it's not really their fault per se.UnknownMercenary posted:I just naturally assumed you'd already uninstalled since I can't remember the last time I saw you play it. I think when Scarface dropped? Then again almost everyone I know just logs in to get the new achievements then stops until more achievements come. i'm not even sure I care enough to log for achievements, so, yeah, I'm considering it. It's been long enough since Housewarming that I feel if Overkill was going to really revert the worst of Jules' choices, they would have either done so or discussed doing so. Instead, they're either failing completely at messaging or they seem content to let him keep doing what he does. Neither outcome is appealing to me. also doom's install footprint is huge
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Jan 19, 2017 20:21
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Psion posted:Yeah, you can still do fine with shotguns, they aren't the problem. The problem is how they interact with the other stupid poo poo in the Jules Era - but that's true of every weapon type. So if you find shotguns underwhelming, it's not really their fault per se. Side question, when was the start of this era? My guess is October 2016.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:22
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Malek posted:Side question, when was the start of this era? My guess is October 2016. I consider everything housewarming and after to be the Jules Era, yes. What's weird is I didn't know this guy's name at all, then suddenly the stupidity of Housewarming shows up and everyone's naming him in particular as the architect behind it. Who was this guy before then? Who knows! Is everything since personally his fault? Who knows! Is he going to get blamed for it personally? yep I mean it's important to point out the many, many good things they've done since then - but as far as player experience if the underlying mechanics of actually playing the game are bad, and they are if you play Mayhem+, then it doesn't really matter that Scarface Mansion is pretty cool or that all the work they did to Safehouse was pretty rad, or whatever. Psion fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 20:24
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Psion posted:I consider everything housewarming and after to be the Jules Era, yes. What's weird is I didn't know this guy's name at all, then suddenly the stupidity of Housewarming shows up and everyone's naming him in particular as the architect behind it. Who was this guy before then? Who knows! Is everything since personally his fault? Who knows! Is he going to get blamed for it personally? yep And so, the true successor to Goldfarb takes the throne.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:29
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Dude's been around for a while. Since at least Crimfest 2015 IIRC.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:44
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UnknownMercenary posted:Dude's been around for a while. Since at least Crimfest 2015 IIRC. Weird, I was enjoying the game during that time.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:13
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UnknownMercenary posted:Dude's been around for a while. Since at least Crimfest 2015 IIRC. which wasn't exactly the best balance move they made, either. can I blame him for two "surprise rebalance out of nowhere" fuckups?
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Jan 19, 2017 22:26
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iirc Jules was responsible for the skill and weapon reworkings that everyone(except the steam forums) likes, which makes this all even more perplexing.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:34
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Discendo Vox posted:Thank you for illustrating the playerbase problem. The game isn't built for stealth, stealth clearly wasn't a priority for much of the development, and stealth is loving chronically unfun. Overkill has had going on 4 years to fix this and they either can't or won't, better to cut half-finished mechanics entirely then waste even more limited resources on them.
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Jan 20, 2017 01:59
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:If you love stealth and want to play more stealth levels you should probably go buy a stealth game Alesso heist is fun in stealth, there I said it. But that's because it encourages the entire team to work together, and you have the exact same goals in stealth as you do loud. You can split up into teams to handle the basement and control room, split up to cover more ground when looking for marked doors, and everybody can have a task to do. Maps designed prior to the stealth update feel bad and broken in stealth, maps designed with stealth as an option are fine in stealth. Murky Station is just a lovely map period and stealth has nothing to do with it, same with the Bomb heists, and I think it may be that the B team did those maps (Bomb for sure, don't know about Murky).
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Jan 20, 2017 02:17
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:The game isn't built for stealth, stealth clearly wasn't a priority for much of the development, and stealth is loving chronically unfun. Overkill has had going on 4 years to fix this and they either can't or won't, better to cut half-finished mechanics entirely then waste even more limited resources on them. The game is built for stealth, stealth was a priority from the beginning of development, and many people disagree with you about whether it is fun. You really need to get off your own dick about being so bad at it.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:21
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Discendo Vox posted:The game is built for stealth, stealth was a priority from the beginning of development, and many people disagree with you about whether it is fun. You really need to get off your own dick about being so bad at it. I love you, Vox.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:34
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I don't even play this game anymore, Thanks Jules, but I still really enjoy stealth. Even if its frustrating as hell at times, its worth the effort to hit those challenges. gently caress me, Vox is right.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:35
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Hobold posted:I don't even play this game anymore, Thanks Jules, but I still really enjoy stealth. Even if its frustrating as hell at times, its worth the effort to hit those challenges. just tell yourself "stopped clock, twice a day..." until it stops hurting
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Jan 20, 2017 02:57
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How do y'all run Kingpin? I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on the pack.
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Jan 20, 2017 03:08
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Feonir fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 03:18
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One weird trick to fix stealth: Client-side detection.
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Jan 20, 2017 04:33
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hup posted:How do y'all run Kingpin? I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on the pack. I think generally as long as you use it with ICTV you're good. Kingpin is for Mayhem+ where even with ICTV you're going to be taking a beating constantly, so when you finally do get down to low health you can pop the adrenaline shot and run out of cover to refill your health with bullets and then rinse and repeat. Or if you need to run out in the open in heavy fire, pop the adrenaline to refill your health as needed and get into cover ASAP. It's an alternative to Anarchist where you're soaking up damage with your armor, but then you're kinda hosed once your health starts taking a hit. It gives a moderate armor increase (like 2x instead of like 4x as with Anarchist) plus health increase, but then you can just take on a hail of bullets to refill your health every so often. And when the deck is complete the health refill is really fast, especially on higher difficulties. It's not totally foolproof but it's kept me on my toes more than Anarchist. But mileage may vary I guess.
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Jan 20, 2017 05:04
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Doesn't look like this was posted already. False Alarm https://youtu.be/CW5oGRx9CLM
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Jan 20, 2017 06:36
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That was Posted a few months ago when the video first came out.
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Jan 20, 2017 07:00
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Woops, didn't go far back enough then. I only saw the video recently despite having the damned song.
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Jan 20, 2017 09:40
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Discendo Vox posted:The game is built for stealth, stealth was a priority from the beginning of development, and many people disagree with you about whether it is fun. You really need to get off your own dick about being so bad at it. Sorry I insulted your Crouch And Look At A Guard For 5 Full Minutes simulator
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Jan 20, 2017 11:37
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Psion posted:There are like fifty heists in this game now and how many are stealth only? I think three. Let's flip this: How many are loud-only, and thus "penalizing" people who prefer stealth? A much larger number than three. And you want to pretend you're being penalized? Nonsense. First, nobody is. Second, if anyone was, it wouldn't be you. Not a single forced stealth heist should exist. Three is three too many. I repeat, I have no problems with stealth existing within the game. Stealth options for heists, sure. Put a stealth option for every single heist, no problem. Pigeonholing people into doing stealth without any proper justification, in-universe or out? No, that's rubbish. Prokhor Zakharov posted:Sorry I insulted your Crouch And Look At A Guard For 5 Full Minutes simulator Also, this. Stealth is frankly boring as gently caress and I don't know why anyone enjoys it over loud. But as I've said before, I have no problem with that. People who like to stealth, should get to stealth. Every heist having both a loud and stealth option is something I would be perfectly ok with. Wastrel_ fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 13:56
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