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Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
Kaffa was also where Mamai, Khan of the Golden Horde, got his rear end shanked by some Genoese mercs after he decided not to pay them after he hired them and failed to subjugate the Principalities of Rus (I'm guessing he was planning to pay them with loot). Even in the 14th century the one rule was still "don't stiff your mercenaries".

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Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender
I'm Hungary going for Take that, Von Hapsburgs! It's 1625, I have Serbia, Croatia, Poland, Teutonic Order, and half of Lithuania annexed. My tax income is good, but my production and trade income are bad. My allies are mother Russia, France, Pope, a modestly sized Brandenburg, and currently vassalized the Livonion Order. Austria is big this time around, they got the Burgundian Inheritance, and the Netherlands have never made an attempt for independence. So Austria and Spain are big.

Austria died without an heir, and a succession war took place between France and Spain, with Spain reigning over Austria. France is loving stupid and didn't have any of their 100k troops on the continent, and didn't call any of their allies except for me, so the war was lost and Austria is in a PU under a big Spain. How can I reasonably go about this? Austria's liberty desire is hovering around 20%.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
Man this game just got confusing. The Welsh Empire of Prydain is mostly minding it's own business doing colonial poo poo in the Carribean in West Africa when all of a sudden I'm told that I've been elected Emperor. But I already AM Emperor what are you on about? Oh, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire I see.

...What? WHY! I don't even own anything in your stupid federation! I literally spent the entire first hundred years of the game ritualistically pissing off the Austrian Emperor over and over and over again. :psyduck:

Only thing I can figure is it has something to do with me being Catholic and the HRE being in the midsts of tearing itself apart between Catholic and Protestant Leagues. It's weird. I'm also increasingly concerned about the seemingly invulnerable power duo of Muscovy and the Ottomans. The Ottomans have basically chewed through Greece all the way into Hungary. That wouldn't be a problem in and of itself, I could take them in a fight, but I can't take them and Muscovy at the same time and they seem joined at the bloody hip. I'm hoping the Printing Press and Global Trade will slow them down enough for me to get an advantage.

The Insect Court
Nov 22, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Any broad guidelines on where to allocate monarch magic? I find myself way behind techwise compared to pretty much everybody else, should I be putting points into tech first? Where do I burn it on development, if anywhere?

Also, while I'm not having any problems with my buddy and constant country-in-law the big blue blob, the smaller red blob is being a real pain in my rear end both grabbing primo Caribbean territory out from under my vassal Portugal. Even worse, England is "guaranteeing independence" to my vassal states, which apparently means that its strength gets added to their own when calculating liberty desire thus guaranteeing they'll stay unabsorbed. Any way to deal with that, keeping in mind that England is still bigger and tougher than me.

Finally, on navies - When are heavy ships worth building? Unless you're butting up against the cap then why not just use light ships for both fighting and building?

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

The Insect Court posted:

Any broad guidelines on where to allocate monarch magic? I find myself way behind techwise compared to pretty much everybody else, should I be putting points into tech first? Where do I burn it on development, if anywhere?

Also, while I'm not having any problems with my buddy and constant country-in-law the big blue blob, the smaller red blob is being a real pain in my rear end both grabbing primo Caribbean territory out from under my vassal Portugal. Even worse, England is "guaranteeing independence" to my vassal states, which apparently means that its strength gets added to their own when calculating liberty desire thus guaranteeing they'll stay unabsorbed. Any way to deal with that, keeping in mind that England is still bigger and tougher than me.

Finally, on navies - When are heavy ships worth building? Unless you're butting up against the cap then why not just use light ships for both fighting and building?

Try to keep up in tech, first and foremost military tech. And then ideas, but sometimes I'll let tech lag behind a bit in order to build up an idea group (such as letting diplo tech lag a bit while rapidly building up Exploration in the early phase of a colonization game)

I try to boost myself up to 1 stability whenever I have plenty of admin laying around, other stability boosts can just come from events

It's important to keep some admin around for coring provinces that you expect to take in the near-term

Roll some generals if you're about to go to war and have spare military points. Grab the 40-tradition nobility/burghers general first, if it's feasible. If I don't get anything useful and have military points to spare then I'll sometimes roll some more

I don't ever bother buying mercantilism

Rarely ever reduce war exhaustion, if it's prohibitively high and you think the war is winnable then it's worth it since war exhaustion is pretty bad for a lot of things, including sieges

Rarely ever reduce inflation unless I have a bunch of admin to spare for some reason

Development is the lowest priority just because there's usually so little benefit. Exceptions are few and far between. Gold provinces provide such a good income return that it can be worth pumping their production, up to 10 (beyond that the monarch costs become prohibitively expensive, and besides that's already a ton of inflation to suffer under). Some high-value trade goods can be worth pumping, too. If you're not near the latest institution then it's usually worth trying to seed it into your country via a ton of development

Recently Paradox added a feature where you can develop a vassal's provinces in order to reduce liberty desire by a pretty substantial amount. This can let you get on with integration, and then those developed provinces become yours, so overall it's pretty nice if your

I'm not an expert player or anything but I do alright and those are my opinions on development

Light ships suck in combat so you want heavy ships for the high seas and galleys if you're doing a lot of inland sea combat. Plus you should split your stacks since naval combat width is a thing now. Light ships should basically just be for trade and exploration missions unless you're seriously suffering for ships and your main fleet is just a bit underpowered compared to your opponent's fleet

QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jan 20, 2017

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

Anyone have advice for getting Great Perm off the ground? The only time I've managed to get independent from Muscovy was with the help of independent Lithuania supporting me and declaring while Muscovy fights Novgorod. As mentioned upthread that bombed out since Lithuania apparently expected land and I didn't notice and lost trust, they broke the alliance immediately and I died shortly after without any allies. I had another game going with the same conditions but this time Muscovy effortlessly crushed Novgorod, Lithuania, myself and a Kazan condottieri stack all at the same time. Google tells me to get Poland plus PUed Lithuania to support me and declare during Muscovy's first war with Novgorod, but I've not once seen them rival Muscovy that early and there's heavy negative modifiers to supporting me if they're neutral or friendly.

Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jan 20, 2017

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

The Insect Court posted:

Any broad guidelines on where to allocate monarch magic? I find myself way behind techwise compared to pretty much everybody else, should I be putting points into tech first? Where do I burn it on development, if anywhere?

Also, while I'm not having any problems with my buddy and constant country-in-law the big blue blob, the smaller red blob is being a real pain in my rear end both grabbing primo Caribbean territory out from under my vassal Portugal. Even worse, England is "guaranteeing independence" to my vassal states, which apparently means that its strength gets added to their own when calculating liberty desire thus guaranteeing they'll stay unabsorbed. Any way to deal with that, keeping in mind that England is still bigger and tougher than me.

Finally, on navies - When are heavy ships worth building? Unless you're butting up against the cap then why not just use light ships for both fighting and building?

QuarkJets has good advice, but one thing about tech: Never buy it when it's +% cost unless you're rushing a mil tech to geta temporary advantage on the AI. I let the "ahead of time" malus go down to zero and if I'm at the limit for accumulating monarch points then I'll pump them into ideas first and then development in states with accepted culture. Mil points develop noble estates, dip points develop trade centres and/or gold or other high value trade goods.

The only time I prioritize development over tech is when an institution has fired. So every 50 years, in the couple years before one fires, I'll try to bank up some monarch points. When it fires I improve relations with burghers to get reduced dev cost, then pump development into a single 10-20 dev province on grassland or farmland, centre of trade is a bonus, and using your capital is the way to go the first time.

If you're a smaller nation you don't need to optimize the institution thing as much, especially if you're in Europe. Right now it's costing me 5000+ ducats to accept an institution in my Russia game, so it can get pricy if you blob hard.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Has anyone tried SA natives recently?

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

StashAugustine posted:

Has anyone tried SA natives recently?

Incans are my favorite Americans and Cusco might have one of the best starts in the new world

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy
Maybe someone has an answer for this about the religious league wars. I was preparing myself as Orthodox Russia in the early 1500s for the league war so that I could try and drag it out and get the Peace of Westphalia, so that I'd be eligible to be emperor. I waited and waited and it didn't fire, even though every elector except one was reformed or protestant. Somewhere around 1540 I looked and I noticed the empire was already in Religious Peace mode. The leagues definitely didn't fire, and it didn't pass the time limit for them to fire, and even if it had that doesn't give you the peace of Westphalia as far as I know. Does anyone know what happened?

This lead to an amazing Europe that looks like this atm, though it's looked like this for almost 100 years:



Austria eventually converted to protestant, France to reformed.

edit: I restored the pentarchy after I noticed this, in case anyone thinks that might be it.

OperaMouse
Oct 30, 2010

StashAugustine posted:

Has anyone tried SA natives recently?

https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/5ow09t/why_carincaya_is_secretly_the_third_best_nation/

TorakFade
Oct 3, 2006

I strongly disapprove


Italian Ambition done :getin:

this is without a doubt my most successful game ever. I have united Italy, I own all the Balkans, Serbia is my vassal and I'm using them to chew on the Ottomans. France, Sweden and Commonwealth are my allies, my rivals Spain/Ottomans/Austria don't really stand a chance. The Ottos got full quantity so they look scary, but their troops and generals are poo poo. With Defensive, Offensive and the Italian buffs to galleys and infantry I can trounce them in a fair fight, or retreat behind my forts if outnumbered (+50% fort defense from Italy, Defensive and a policy). Once the super-soldiers from Commonwealth, France and Sweden get in the fight, they're downright hosed - and at that point my +1 siege pip, +30% siege ability due to Offensive+policy makes short work of any fortification. Russia rivaled me too but who cares, they're far away and just like the Ottos they have lots of men but they don't know which end of the gun to point at the enemy.

I jumped on the colonization train waaaay late (4th idea) but still have 3 colonial nations: O' Brasile Napuletane (yeah I was still Naples back then) which probably will stay pretty small due to being blocked by mega-French Brazil, Cokelombia which will be all mine in time since the rest of it is owned by colonial Norway which was almost kicked out of europe and Scotland which was totally kicked out of europe, and Italian Mexico (which I called Messico e Nuovle because I'm dumb) where I shall shortly begin to beat on the locals and steal their candies. Probably going to get at least another one going in Canada just for funsies.

It's 1680 and I'm #2 great power starting from poor old Naples, all this in Ironman. My prestige naturally drifts to 90, Innovative + a policy with -10% advisor cost means I can hire the best advisors, -30% AE and -25% core cost means I can conquer fast and hard if I want.

Of course now I jinxed myself and will get my rear end kicked :v:

A few pictures speak more than a thousand words:

Europe


World (notice giant fuckoff Ming, how did they get to live so long? They're #1 great power right now)


North America


South America


Hell yeah




TorakFade fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 20, 2017

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

TorakFade posted:

Italian Ambition done :getin:

this is without a doubt my most successful game ever. I have united Italy, I own all the Balkans, Serbia is my vassal and I'm using them to chew on the Ottomans. France, Sweden and Commonwealth are my allies, my rivals Spain/Ottomans/Austria don't really stand a chance. The Ottos got full quantity so they look scary, but their troops and generals are poo poo. With Defensive, Offensive and the Italian buffs to galleys and infantry I can trounce them in a fair fight, or retreat behind my forts if outnumbered (+50% fort defense from Italy, Defensive and a policy). Once the super-soldiers from Commonwealth, France and Sweden get in the fight, they're downright hosed - and at that point my +1 siege pip, +30% siege ability due to Offensive+policy makes short work of any fortification. Russia rivaled me too but who cares, they're far away and just like the Ottos they have lots of men but they don't know which end of the gun to point at the enemy.

I jumped on the colonization train waaaay late (4th idea) but still have 3 colonial nations: O' Brasile Napuletane (yeah I was still Naples back then) which probably will stay pretty small due to being blocked by mega-French Brazil, Cokelombia which will be all mine in time since the rest of it is owned by colonial Norway which was almost kicked out of europe and Scotland which was totally kicked out of europe, and Italian Mexico (which I called Messico e Nuovle because I'm dumb) where I shall shortly begin to beat on the locals and steal their candies. Probably going to get at least another one going in Canada just for funsies.

It's 1680 and I'm #2 great power starting from poor old Naples, all this in Ironman. My prestige naturally drifts to 90, Innovative + a policy with -10% advisor cost means I can hire the best advisors, -30% AE from said policy .

Of course now I jinxed myself and will get my rear end kicked :v:

A few pictures speak more than a thousand words:

Europe


World (notice giant fuckoff Ming, how did they get to live so long? They're #1 great power right now)


North America


South America


Hell yeah






Good job, but ... Wtf happened to russia not colonizing the asian steppes? That France is also an affront to pretty borders, it needs to be exteriminated fixed

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

TorakFade posted:

Europe


World (notice giant fuckoff Ming, how did they get to live so long? They're #1 great power right now)


North America


South America


Hell yeah






I didn't know that EU4 ran on SNES. And congrats :)

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
Huh, so protectorates are being combined with vassals next patch. Which I think functionally means they're getting removed, except now there'll be an option to take trade power and sieze land off vassals which'll be pretty nice I guess.

I mean they were definitely extremely broken ever since the institutions patch, but I kind of hope there'll be an alternative of some kind. Europeans make very few inroads into Asia already.

The Bramble
Mar 16, 2004

This got posted on reddit and I feel like it belongs here too

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

I mean yeah, when you look at what you're doing in EU4 when you blob and culture convert, it's pretty much just a stream of atrocities.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
I kind of wish trade companies were a bit more autonomous. As is they're a little on the boring side. Should I be developing Ivory Coast provinces to pump the trade value of the region as a whole? Furthermore if I took provinces from the interior like Timbuktu is it more efficient to keep or give to the West Africa Charter? :shrug:

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

Jay Rust posted:

I mean yeah, when you look at what you're doing in EU4 when you blob and culture convert, it's pretty much just a stream of atrocities.

I never culture convert and I build universities in every province. Humanism is my favourite idea group in principle.

Not this white man.

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

"accepted culture"

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

The Bramble posted:

This got posted on reddit and I feel like it belongs here too



lol

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

There should be an achievement for playing through a pacifist campaign, you know, without starting any wars, never demanding land or vassals, just chilling and pumping up your development and inspiring your neighbours to lay down their arms and welcome love into their hearts.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Jay Rust posted:

There should be an achievement for playing through a pacifist campaign, you know, without starting any wars, never demanding land or vassals, just chilling and pumping up your development and inspiring your neighbours to lay down their arms and welcome love into their hearts.

Ironically that's more Stellaris' bag

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

it for sure is not stellaris' bag

TorakFade
Oct 3, 2006

I strongly disapprove


double nine posted:

Good job, but ... Wtf happened to russia not colonizing the asian steppes? That France is also an affront to pretty borders, it needs to be exteriminated fixed

I like to think of it as France literally buttfucking Spain and it makes me giggle so I guess I shall let it stand. Also france is my strongest ally, even if I kinda want to steal brazil from them I am pretty afraid Commonwealth isn't really up to par and Spain / Ottos would just love to jump on me the very moment I get involved in a hellwar. I need to crush Austria first to strengthen my position even more.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Captain Oblivious posted:

I kind of wish trade companies were a bit more autonomous. As is they're a little on the boring side. Should I be developing Ivory Coast provinces to pump the trade value of the region as a whole? Furthermore if I took provinces from the interior like Timbuktu is it more efficient to keep or give to the West Africa Charter? :shrug:
I'm pretty sure there is no Trade Company zone for the Timbuktu node. Never develop provinces that are not in a State where the culture is accepted and religion is the state's.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

StashAugustine posted:

Ironically that's more Stellaris' bag
The next Stellaris patch is going to let you treat aliens like livestock. As in your people raise and eat sentient beings. Also more options for slavery and purging (includes genocidal processing entire species for food). :toot:

Poil fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 20, 2017

Quorum
Sep 24, 2014

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

Poil posted:

The next Stellaris patch is going to let you treat aliens like livestock. As in your people raise them and eat sentient beings. Also more options for slavery and purging (includes genocidal processing entire species for food). :toot:

The Galactic West was built on xenovorism, it's time to face that

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I'm pretty sure there is no Trade Company zone for the Timbuktu node. Never develop provinces that are not in a State where the culture is accepted and religion is the state's.

Ah okay I wasn't sure if you could just give them the provinces anyway. So then, is taking interior non trade company Africa and core/stating it at all worth the trouble?

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

^^^ usually not worth the trouble without a specific reason (such as turning Africa into a single solid color)

Captain Oblivious posted:

I kind of wish trade companies were a bit more autonomous. As is they're a little on the boring side. Should I be developing Ivory Coast provinces to pump the trade value of the region as a whole? Furthermore if I took provinces from the interior like Timbuktu is it more efficient to keep or give to the West Africa Charter? :shrug:

Only coastal provinces can be given to a trade company, and you shouldn't bother developing trade company provinces as they are at a minimum 75% autonomy (and even if they weren't, you get none of the manpower and only half of the taxes in trade company provinces; the small bonus to trade power is rarely worth spending diplo on, you would be better off buying mercantilism points instead)

Give garbage and high trade power provinces to the trade company, consider high development provinces for statehood (and if you don't plan on having any states in the region then just give everything there to the trade company)

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

QuarkJets posted:

^^^ usually not worth the trouble without a specific reason (such as turning Africa into a single solid color)


Only coastal provinces can be given to a trade company, and you shouldn't bother developing trade company provinces as they are at a minimum 75% autonomy (and even if they weren't, you get none of the manpower and only half of the taxes in trade company provinces; the small bonus to trade power is rarely worth spending diplo on, you would be better off buying mercantilism points instead)

Give garbage and high trade power provinces to the trade company, consider high development provinces for statehood (and if you don't plan on having any states in the region then just give everything there to the trade company)

Only coastal provinces for the West African Charter, I assume you mean? Almost all the trade companies in China, India, and SE Asia have inland provinces.

Not trying to be pedantic. It's just something I didn't notice for a while myself.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012
Started a new Poland game to relax after months away...hmm. Why the hell does everyone under the sun get a say on who is going to be my heir? drat Habsburgs somehow always have a heir lined up with score in the 90s-100s while I have to blow all my reputation 10 at a time for a measly extra 5 points. Jagellions were erased from history after a single ruler. Worse, I can't do the same to other countries.

I guess there's some DLC I'm missing, but drat, this is annoying. I might crush Austria out of principle now instead of helping them deal with the Ottomans. Now -I- am the main Habsburg Branch, you meddlers!

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Tsyni posted:

Only coastal provinces for the West African Charter, I assume you mean? Almost all the trade companies in China, India, and SE Asia have inland provinces.

Not trying to be pedantic. It's just something I didn't notice for a while myself.

Yes (I thought we were talking about Timbuktu?)

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Jay Rust posted:

There should be an achievement for playing through a pacifist campaign, you know, without starting any wars, never demanding land or vassals, just chilling and pumping up your development and inspiring your neighbours to lay down their arms and welcome love into their hearts.

"Thanks for playing, JESUS."

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Sephyr posted:

Started a new Poland game to relax after months away...hmm. Why the hell does everyone under the sun get a say on who is going to be my heir? drat Habsburgs somehow always have a heir lined up with score in the 90s-100s while I have to blow all my reputation 10 at a time for a measly extra 5 points. Jagellions were erased from history after a single ruler. Worse, I can't do the same to other countries.

I guess there's some DLC I'm missing, but drat, this is annoying. I might crush Austria out of principle now instead of helping them deal with the Ottomans. Now -I- am the main Habsburg Branch, you meddlers!

The Polish monarchy thing is super weird - I have no idea why it becomes so elective like, immediately - but having a Habsburg on the throne is actually what you want, since it gives you good chances to impose a PU on Austria, and quite probably Hungary and Bohemia as well. There's some interesting WCs out there where Poland cycles through foreign dynasties PUing all the majors.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
If anything the Polish monarchy does not do an accurate job of reflecting how incredibly dumb the PLC was set up.

Agnostalgia
Dec 22, 2009

Eej posted:

If anything the Polish monarchy does not do an accurate job of reflecting how incredibly dumb the PLC was set up.

Better hope all 300,000 people with the power to veto your government's agenda with no recourse are on board before you embrace that instituition.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Jay Rust posted:

it's pretty much just a stream of atrocities.

New thread title please.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS

Agnostalgia posted:

Better hope all 300,000 people with the power to veto your government's agenda with no recourse are on board before you embrace that instituition.

I'm the guy in the Sejm going "I have an Uncle in Milan and he said the Renaissance was terrible!"

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Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

So I haven't really played any Paradox stuff since EU2 and Victoria. I just picked up all the main DLC for this and am starting out. I picked Portugal because they were a good choice in 2 but trade is weird and I feel like sending ships out to protect trade is barely breaking even after fleet maintenance. I guess I really don't understand how everything fits together but almost all of the tutorials I see are based on the base game. The expansions seem to add a lot of things that aren't really covered anywhere.


Does anyone have suggestions for getting a handle on this?

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