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Hey, how about some more charger chat because, why not? I got some good cables and converters and a multitude of car chargers, so let's see what shakes out. The C-C cable in use is Apple's MLL82AM/A. The A-C cable in use is Beklin's USB-IF certified A-C cable (F2CU032bt06-BLK). I also used TechMatte's Micro USB to C adapter. I was using Ampere on a Pixel with a battery charge level of <55%. From what I understand, the Pixel starts pulling back on current above 55%, so I wanted to be sure that the phone would choose the fastest rate it could. Ampere is measuring the charge applied to the battery, so the number there is lower than what the charger is delivering due to base load of the phone. It seems like baseline load of the Pixel with screen brightness set to the lowest level was around 300mah. First, I checked out the Vinsic USB C charger: https://www.amazon.com/Vinsic-Charger-Adapter-Standard-Outputs/dp/B014F2NQ36 This has a -1 on the recommendation spreadsheet. No safety issues were found with it and it's spec compliant. However, it does not have IR Drop compensation. What that means it it's not capable of detecting and compensating for the resistance drop of an attached cable. So, depending on what cable you use, significantly less than 5v could be making it to the device. Both the Pixel and 6p have a bug in their power firmware that make them very sensitive to voltage drop. If voltage drops too low, they back off current. Notes on this charger in the spreadsheet say that it would not charge past 1.5a for the tests. However, it was not clear what cable it was tested with so a low IR drop cable may fair better. With the MLL82AM/A, I saw my Pixel ramp up to about 1760mah. So, it was likely charging at about a 2A rate. Not terrible by any means, but not full spec. I may pick up one of the Belkin Thunderbolt 3ft cables because it's supposed to have the lowest IR drop of any cable tested. If I do, I'll try the charger again to see if it charges any higher. Next up were a pair of Anker QC chargers. One was 2.0 and one was 3.0. The 2.0 one was rated to 2.4A and the 3.0 was rated to 3A. They performed similarly with the Belkin A-C cable. Both ramped up to a little over 1800mah. So, around 2.1A or so. So, the USB A chargers actually performed better than the USB-C charger. IR drop can come into play here as well. I don't know what the resistance of that specific cable is. I can assume it to be fairly low since Belkin usually is but it's possible a cable with a lower resistance could have done better. Then I tried a Tylt Ribbon 2.4A micro USB charger. It's a captive cable charger where the cable is flat like a ribbon. It doesn't have any special or proprietary charging programming, just 2.4A delivery. I connected that up with the MicroUSB-C adapter. That charger fairly quickly ramped up to about 2010mah. So, considering base load of the phone, it likely was using the charger at its full 2.4A capacity. This tells me that either Tylt has IR Compensation built into their charger (I'm not sure if this is a thing outside of USB-C though) or they calibrated the charger taking into account the captive cable. Regardless, it was the best performing thus far and very close to an ideal 3A charge rate. This makes me almost want to try their new USB-C chargers since these seem to be so well built. But I don't want to gamble without knowing if they are electrically safe. Finally, I tried the Verizon TYPECPDQC3VPC. This is a captive cable charger that does a bevy of specs. 5v/3a 7v/3a 8v/3a 9v/3a 12v/2.5a 15v/2a + QC3.0. This is one of 3 different USB-C chargers that Verizon sell that look very similar. There's this one, one that's only QC2.0 (it has a black cable end rather than red) and one that's strictly USB-PD over USB-C. The QC2.0 one is a safety hazard and should never be used. The USB-PD version gets a 2 though he's not thrilled with the overcurrent protection and it does not have IR compensation and it doesn't appear to have been calibrated with the cable, so it may not charge at full speed. The QC3.0 one actually gets a -1 recommendation though it seems like it's generally safe and not a bad option. Nathan K mostly doesn't like the overcurrent behavior. The amount of current it takes to shut off seems a bit high for a car environment where a cable could be smashed easily. However, it does have IR compensation (even if it isn't the best) and properly isolates devices from the car so you can't have back current into the vehicle. Connecting up to my Pixel, it very quickly jumped up to about 2450mah of charge. So, that's probably close to a 2.8A charge rate depending on what else the phone was doing. So, it comes closest to max rate (and really could be charging at a full 3A depending how accurate Ampere is.) So, it's probably one of the only car chargers (if not THE only car charger) that will charge a Pixel at full rate. With that though comes a fairly expensive charger ($40) and iffy behavior if it is shorted out. I got the charger for $25 though since my work gets discount on Verizon accessories, so it may be more worth it at that price. Nathan calls it a "charger of last resort" and that seems apt. The reason why I say that is it seems pretty easy to get something to charge the pixel at close to 2A rates safely. If your phone has a higher level of charge in it (above 55%) it's likely going to throttle down to under 2A anyways. So, you really only NEED 3A charging if you are going in with a fairly dead phone. If you are routinely plugging in your phone while driving with a >55% charge, then you probably don't NEED a 3A charger. So, based on what I tested, I'm probably going to stick to my two Tylt Chargers in the car used with the Micro->C adapters. They are safe, high quality chargers and they only charge about 400mah behind max USB-C rate when the phone is below 55%. The Verizon charger i'll likely keep in the car I'm using more (depends on the season) and have it in reserve to use if I really need as much charge as possible in a short period of time. I'm going to stop using it where I was using it though since the cable routing meant it was being pinched a little with the arm rest. With the way it does overcurrent, I don't want to risk it. Hopefully we'll eventually have GOOD C car chargers but for now just use a high amp A charger with a good A-C cable (or cable adapter), you aren't missing much. A better investment would be an additional Pixel OEM charger for the office. You can get it above 55% in under a half hour in all but the most extreme cases of discharge with the stock charger, then it really doesn't matter much what you have charging it in the car. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 01:41
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bull3964 posted:<Quality analysis> Seriously, thanks for doing this. I've been wondering what my best options are for replacing my out of spec USB-C chargers and still ensuring all-day access to charging and have settled on keeping my 2.4A car charger and just getting the Anker A-C cable. Glad to know your analysis supports that approach. Given the warnings Nathan has given regarding the OEM charger for my 6P (Do NOT use with any other USB-C cable), I'm also getting the SONEIC and dodocool AC chargers. I suspect I'll end up with another USB-C phone by the end of the year and want to have non-proprietary options available. Sadly, Google OEM stuff on the online store is not available here, so I'm settling for what's available on Amazon plus courier shipping. anakha fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 02:17
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While the USB-C poo poo sucks, right now I'm not too worried about it. I just had the phone off the charger for 26 hours and was only down to 63%.
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Jan 22, 2017 03:45
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LastInLine posted:While the USB-C poo poo sucks, right now I'm not too worried about it. I just had the phone off the charger for 26 hours and was only down to 63%. My pixel's battery life continues to be  nice. Granted, that flat bit at the end of the recorded graph was where I left it on the bedstand without being plugged in because I was drunk as a loving skunk and didn't even think to plug the fucker in, so it flattened out the interpolation like crazy. 
FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 03:53
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I have an Altacel OneTouch Idol Mini (which runs 4.2.2) that I love very much, but it has a bunch of unwanted software I can't remove nor can I upgrade the OS, so I tried multiple methods to root it, none of which worked. No biggie, factory reset it, everything seemed fine. I'm just now getting around to trying to encrypt the phone storage again, and when I try, it either goes into a very rapid reboot loop, or freezes entirely, all the while becoming rather warm. It didn't do this before I attempted to root it, so I assume something important got messed up in the process that factory resets can't touch. Am I stuck here, or is there something I can do to fix my phone guts?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:14
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The power button on my nexus 6p is stick pressed down so it keeps switching itself off/on. Is there an easy way to fix this?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:23
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Jose posted:The power button on my nexus 6p is stick pressed down so it keeps switching itself off/on. Is there an easy way to fix this? Have you tried pounding it on your desk?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:26
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Spray some wd40 in there
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Jan 22, 2017 18:37
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Killingyouguy! posted:I have an Altacel OneTouch Idol Mini (which runs 4.2.2) that I love very much, but it has a bunch of unwanted software I can't remove nor can I upgrade the OS, so I tried multiple methods to root it, none of which worked. No biggie, factory reset it, everything seemed fine. Sounds like hardware failure. You should replace it with a Pixel, an iPhone, or a Moto G.
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Jan 22, 2017 18:56
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Jose posted:The power button on my nexus 6p is stick pressed down so it keeps switching itself off/on. Is there an easy way to fix this? Are you sure it's not the boot loop problem?
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Jan 22, 2017 19:00
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No the button doesn't click and is now concave. There is a phoen repair shop next to my work so i'll just go there tomorrow if there aren't any easy fixes but its annoying since i use my phone as an alarm Jose fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 19:03
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RZA Encryption posted:Sounds like hardware failure. You should replace it with a Pixel, an iPhone, or a Moto G. Is there hardware in a phone dedicated solely to encryption? This is the only feature of the phone that doesn't work.
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Jan 22, 2017 19:57
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Idk about that phone, but when googling I see other people with it having encryption problems. That phone's over three years old and on a now ancient version of Android. If you want to have a phone that works that long, get an iPhone or a Pixel.
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Jan 22, 2017 20:43
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Killingyouguy! posted:Is there hardware in a phone dedicated solely to encryption? This is the only feature of the phone that doesn't work. As far as I'm aware, the only Android with hardware cryptography handling is the Pixel. Every other device does it in software. Maybe I'm crazy but wasn't there something broken in KitKat having to do with encryption? It was so long ago...
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Jan 22, 2017 21:02
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It could very well be marginal NAND too. Encryption requires the system to touch all blocks of storage and possibly it's hitting an error it can't deal with.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:55
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If I recall, the phones using sw encryption caused them to be slow as poo poo, so maybe that's a bad choice. Was the case with my buddy's Droid Turbo
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Jan 22, 2017 23:29
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Luckily, prior to the root attempts, I encrypted my storage with no issues or slowdown. Is there any way to scan my storage for errors or damage?
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Jan 22, 2017 23:41
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Get a new phone
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Jan 22, 2017 23:50
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I'd really rather not, this one still works perfectly fine.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:58
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Killingyouguy! posted:Altacel OneTouch Idol Mini (which runs 4.2.2) Seriously, get a new loving phone
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Jan 23, 2017 00:05
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Killingyouguy! posted:Luckily, prior to the root attempts, I encrypted my storage with no issues or slowdown. Is there any way to scan my storage for errors or damage? I'm sure it's fine. Honestly even if it isn't, there's nothing you can do without the ability to flash a stock image and since you can't do that...
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Jan 23, 2017 00:05
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Killingyouguy! posted:I have an Altacel OneTouch Idol Mini (which runs 4.2.2) that I love very much, but it has a bunch of unwanted software I can't remove nor can I upgrade the OS, so I tried multiple methods to root it, none of which worked. No biggie, factory reset it, everything seemed fine. Killingyouguy! posted:I'd really rather not, this one still works perfectly fine. 
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Jan 23, 2017 00:11
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Well, aside from this one thing, it's fine. Thanks for all the responses 
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Jan 23, 2017 00:12
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Just a quick update. I picked up one of the Belkin Thunderbolt 3 cables from the local apple store today. This is the F2CD082ds0.5MBK that's seriously overbuilt. The construction can handle 5 amps buts is emarked to only 3A because of Intel thunderbolt rules. It has the lowest internal resistance of all the USB C cables. I paired it up to the Vinsic charger and gave it a try. My Pixel jumped up to 2560mah charge rate as opposed to the ~1700 rate I saw on the Apple charge cable. So, it seems with a low enough resistance cable, you can get full charge rates. This does come with downsides in that it's only 1.5 ft cable and the cable costs $22 to go with your $10 charger. But it does work. One thing that slightly concerns me is that when the phone was plugged in and the car was off, the light on the charger pulsed very slowly and very faintly and I could hear a faint click that went with it. I don't know if this is a sign of back feeding current into the car or not. Neither the car nor the phone acted odd, but I would still probably unplug your phone before turning off the car if you went this route for charging.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:15
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Is the Nexus 9 still bad, or did they patch it? Not looking for anything crazy, just a cheap video player
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Jan 23, 2017 00:15
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If you just want a cheap video player, get a used (or new if you can find one!) N7 2013. The aspect ratio of the N9 makes it so 16:9 content is barely larger than what's displayed on the N7 or any other 16:9 tablet. Barring that, just get a FireTV. There's really no reason for anyone to buy a N9 at this point.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:20
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Killingyouguy! posted:Well, aside from this one thing, it's fine. Dude, the OS on that is 4 years old. That is an eternity for phones. It's very insecure and lacking a ton of important features, and it's straight broken to boot. Get a new phone. bull3964 posted:If you just want a cheap video player, get a used (or new if you can find one!) N7 2013. The aspect ratio of the N9 makes it so 16:9 content is barely larger than what's displayed on the N7 or any other 16:9 tablet. Still use my N7 for reading and videos. It's starting to get a pretty old but it's fantastic for a couch or travel. Cheap as hell, too.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:21
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Killingyouguy! posted:Well, aside from this one thing, it's fine. If you think that is somehow "fine", your head might actually explode if you try a current gen phone.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:25
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Taffer posted:
I originally sold mine when I bought a N9 and then eventually re-bought the N7 in 2015 because I couldn't stand the N9. I still use it to this day even though I have a Pixel C as well. It's probably the best electronic purchase I've ever made.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:27
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bull3964 posted:I originally sold mine when I bought a N9 and then eventually re-bought the N7 in 2015 because I couldn't stand the N9. I still use it to this day even though I have a Pixel C as well. It's probably the best electronic purchase I've ever made. I pulled mine out of my bag a couple days ago after not charging or using it for 3 days - 98% battery. I've had it live on standby for 10 days and still have enough battery to do stuff (recent android versions have improved this a ton too). It's amazingly resilient, I would have expected the battery to have deteriorated pretty far by this time. Even seems decent for games too, if that's something you like.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:44
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Grumpwagon posted:Is the Nexus 9 still bad, or did they patch it? Not looking for anything crazy, just a cheap video player There's an Android tablet thread, but it's hard to beat the Fire HD 8 as a cheap video player.
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Jan 23, 2017 01:21
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Thermopyle posted:There's an Android tablet thread, but it's hard to beat the Fire HD 8 as a cheap video player. I was just going to recommend that. Like.. 80$ for a tablet that works great, has a decent screen and stereo speakers, and takes maybe 5 minutes to put Google services on is about as good as it gets, IMO
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Jan 23, 2017 02:25
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Samsung put out official results of their Note7 investigation http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/01/22/galaxy-note7-investigation-finds-two-distinct-battery-problems/ quote:The original batteries for the Note7 had casings too small to accommodate the electrode assembly, which led to thermal failure and short-circuiting with normal use. Additionally, the tip of the cells' negative electrodes were incorrectly located in the battery structure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s4uqr1serU
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Jan 23, 2017 03:28
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LastInLine posted:As far as I'm aware, the only Android with hardware cryptography handling is the Pixel. Every other device does it in software. This isn't true, the Nexus 5x at least certainly has hardware encryption, and I believe the Nexus 6 and likely 6P have it too. Edit: I'm wrong as gently caress, on all 3 counts, but leaving this here as a reminder of my shame. Turns out they're all encrypted by default, unlike most phones, but without full hardware.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:37
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I was under the impression they physically have the hardware available but since they run AOSP Android (rather than the Google-skinned Android the Pixel runs), they can't actually use it.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:35
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The 5X and 6P use ARMv8 vector instructions (NEON) for FDE, which is faster than most software implementations but is still software. IIRC Google says it's because it's actually faster than the 810/808 hardware AES, which wouldn't surprise me if true because lol 810. I don't think the AOSP vs custom skin thing is the case because I don't see why AOSP couldn't use it if it was available and fall back to software if not, it's just instructions that are part of the ARMv8-A spec like the NEON instructions they use instead. And just to clarify if anyone is confused by "hardware encryption:" most phones with SoCs that support ARM TrustZone use it as a hardware backed keystore even if the actual encryption/decryption is done in software. Theris fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 05:34
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Theris posted:
Because Google doesn't want to build to a specific SoC implementation in AOSP. The NEON instructions are available to any ARMv8 processors out there (such as MediaTek). The hardware encryption for the SD808/810 would have JUST been for those SoCs and that's not really how Google rolls with AOSP. It's really the same reason why Google didn't do any of the touch latency optimizations on any prior device or any one of the other tweaks they did for the Pixel. They are likely interacting with a lower level API that requires device specific code. They aren't going to put code into AOSP that requires use of an API for a closed binary that may not be licenced for public distribution.
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Jan 23, 2017 07:32
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CLAM DOWN posted:Samsung put out official results of their Note7 investigation quote:Burning Pintos have become such an embarrassment to Ford that its advertising agency, J. Walter Thompson, dropped a line from the end of a radio spot that read 'Pinto leaves you with that warm feeling.'
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Jan 23, 2017 07:58
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I mean I'd feel better about Samsung after that ad if it weren't for the almost decade of total poo poo I'd seen from them beforehand. Bet their batteries wouldn't have exploded if they didn't have touchwhiz.
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Jan 23, 2017 08:03
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FAUXTON posted:I mean I'd feel better about Samsung after that ad if it weren't for the almost decade of total poo poo I'd seen from them beforehand. Lol what?
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Jan 23, 2017 18:15
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