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That was such a loving good episode. If they don't let up this momentum this'll easily be the best S2 we've gotten out of a Gundam show.
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Jan 22, 2017 18:15
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NotALizardman posted:Lafter and Azee disable his graze and strand him in space. Julieta ignores his distress calls, reports him dead. And everyone on the bridge agrees with her that they never heard any distress call.
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Jan 22, 2017 18:31
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gyrobot posted:Rustal may double down on this if this was tied to the McGillis and essentially destroyed a valuable ally of Tekkadan because Jasley is pro Gjallarhorn and Teiwaz will follow Rustal when the shooting starts. Wait Blid and Chloe died? From what I can tell all the named Turbines other then Naze and Amida lived.
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Jan 22, 2017 18:56
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Stay safe Space Guts.
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Jan 22, 2017 20:23
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This episode was nice as it gave more characterization to the cast. I'm hoping that as Mikazuki keeps dehumanizing the rest of the cast grows more. I would have liked Space Guts to have been the lead a bit more and shifts to Mikazuki are to show him losing his humanity.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:29
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MonsterEnvy posted:Wait Blid and Chloe died? I don't have time to go back and rewatch, but they definitely showed a bunch of dead turbines after the giant railgun-arbalest attacks so maybe they were in that shot? I don't remember them popping up afterwards. Also a couple of launches got tagged on the way out so this was not a bloodless escape.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:36
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I had kind of a different read to Julieta saying she was relieved, I took it that she thought she was prepared to die for Glorious Lord Rustal, but when actually faced with the possibility, she honestly wanted to live. I took her "relief" to be that she was, in a way, grateful towards Iok for incidentally saving her and that it was a possible set up for her top warm up a little to him. Speaking of, Jesus loving Christ, Iok  I honestly don't think he fully understands just how horrible his actions were, but that kinda makes it worse. How is he getting dumber?? He's such a well written character but I just want to Bright slap some sense into him, he is the most frustration character I've encountered in a long time. I think he might be beyond redemption, though having the control bridge nearly taken out could either a) shake some idiocy out him (unlikely) or b) cause him to quadruple down on his current path (probably this). I'm already getting pre-pissed at him for next week's episode.This dumb idiot, with his position and resources, could've done so much to actually help and accomplish his self professed ideals of righteous and oblige noblesse, but instead we get this. He is darkside Kudelia and became part of the problem instead of working towards the solution.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:49
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Amida was too good for Naze, goddamn she's a great pilot and she should've been poached by Tekkadan to pilot her own Gundam instead of sacrificing herself for Pimp Jesus.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:58
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Actually Naze is/was cool and good.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:04
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I just find Naze to be extremely boring and flat, and the amount of dick sucking the writers give him to be obnoxious. Name one flaw he has that isn't some bullshit "is too nice" non-flaw; I honestly can't think of one. All of his traits and actions are always Right and Positive, even when some of them should be raising some eyebrows, like the whole "thousands of wives" and the weird implications behind it. There's no potential for upward growth because he's already considered perfect and the show loves him too much for him go darkside, hell, the show doesn't even attempt to challenge him as a character at all (which really stands when all the other characters are facing conflicts of morality). The only major opposition we've ever seen him face is "coworker who's jealous because Naze is just so cool" and "the evil government is framing Naze, poor thing," where he's always framed as a victim. Even back in S1 when the Turbines and Tekkadan clashed, the show was very quick to assure the audience that he was a good guy and make sure he didn't take any remotely irreversible actions against Tekkadan when they were "enemies."
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Jan 22, 2017 22:35
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Adel posted:I had kind of a different read to Julieta saying she was relieved, I took it that she thought she was prepared to die for Glorious Lord Rustal, but when actually faced with the possibility, she honestly wanted to live. I took her "relief" to be that she was, in a way, grateful towards Iok for incidentally saving her and that it was a possible set up for her top warm up a little to him. I think she was relieved, but she wasn't happy she was relieved. She was in a duel to the death with the best non-Mika pilot she'd ever met (Seriously, I underestimated Amida. Julieta's nowhere near a slouch, and she'd have been killed five times over in anything but her current monster), and she genuinely respected her opponent. She wanted to be the kind of person who embraces that, who wins on her own merits or dies with no regrets. She saw Mikazuki and Vidar fight, and it was beautiful. And now she gets that fight, she finds her nerves in rebellion against the vision she had of herself. She wasn't the win or die ace. She wasn't like Amida, the sort who would embrace martyrdom. She was just another grunt, hoping and praying her skill and her suit would combine well enough to let her live one more day, and whose only gut reaction to an enemy taken down by unfair means is "thank you, oh Lord, that it wasn't me this time." Julieta found out that she wasn't who she wanted to be when fighting against someone who actually was that kind of person. It's a sobering kind of experience.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:37
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Adel posted:Speaking of, Jesus loving Christ, Iok The dude deployed illegal superweapons for the noble task of arresting an accused criminal(who was framed for possession of those very same superweapons), repeatedly and willfully ignored the accused's attempt to surrender peacefully in favor of opting to use those illegal superweapons to attempt to mow down fleeing civilians en masse, and then ordered those illegal superweapons to fire on an enemy with his own troops in the line of fire to preserve his own life(which was only in danger because he was an arrogant moron). Iok cleared the bar for war criminal and kept running until it was a distant memory in the distance here. That said, I am incredibly amused at how no matter how stupid and blind Iok manages to be they keep finding ways for him to dig himself deeper. It's actually amazing and I'm wondering how he'll top himself this time. Deploy a nuclear weapon against the Tekkadan orphanage? Nerve gas Chryse?
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Jan 22, 2017 23:16
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Adel posted:I just find Naze to be extremely boring and flat, and the amount of dick sucking the writers give him to be obnoxious. Name one flaw he has that isn't some bullshit "is too nice" non-flaw; I honestly can't think of one. All of his traits and actions are always Right and Positive, even when some of them should be raising some eyebrows, like the whole "thousands of wives" and the weird implications behind it. There's no potential for upward growth because he's already considered perfect and the show loves him too much for him go darkside, hell, the show doesn't even attempt to challenge him as a character at all (which really stands when all the other characters are facing conflicts of morality). The only major opposition we've ever seen him face is "coworker who's jealous because Naze is just so cool" and "the evil government is framing Naze, poor thing," where he's always framed as a victim. Even back in S1 when the Turbines and Tekkadan clashed, the show was very quick to assure the audience that he was a good guy and make sure he didn't take any remotely irreversible actions against Tekkadan when they were "enemies." Is Merribit or the mechanic, also adult role models for Tekkadan, supposed to also have some sort of dark motive in what they do? He's already passed his point of no return offscreen by joining Teiwaz and using it as an umbrella for the women he wanted to protect, which has now reached its resolution. He got out-schemed by enemies he made.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:36
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Kanos posted:The dude deployed illegal superweapons for the noble task of arresting an accused criminal(who was framed for possession of those very same superweapons), repeatedly and willfully ignored the accused's attempt to surrender peacefully in favor of opting to use those illegal superweapons to attempt to mow down fleeing civilians en masse, and then ordered those illegal superweapons to fire on an enemy with his own troops in the line of fire to preserve his own life(which was only in danger because he was an arrogant moron). Iok cleared the bar for war criminal and kept running until it was a distant memory in the distance here. Iok's worse than Rustal. Rustal's a bastard, but it's for a purpose. He kills children, burns cities, and commits war crimes with an endgame in mind, and weighing it against an alternative that he thinks is unacceptable. He thinks that a world without Gjallarhorn will fall into anarchy, and that if people are squirming, you need to put the boot firmer on their necks. Massacres like Dort are controlled burns, a little harm to keep the forest intact. He's a very bad man, but he's also a competent one, and the kind of person who's kept Gjallarhorn limping along this long. Meanwhile, Iok's committing the same crimes, but without the planning. Rustal's able to sleep because he tells himself that his sins were for the greater good. Iok just doesn't notice he's a poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:40
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booksnake posted:Is Merribit or the mechanic, also adult role models for Tekkadan, supposed to also have some sort of dark motive in what they do? He's already passed his point of no return offscreen by joining Teiwaz and using it as an umbrella for the women he wanted to protect, which has now reached its resolution. He got out-schemed by enemies he made. Neither Merribit or the mechanic had a loving iota of the impact on everything the way Naze did, nor were given as much focus (if anything Merribit got sort of screwed by ending up being the voice of reason before the show undercut her). Not every adult is evil but "Naze Turbine, the Space Mafia Harem Jesus" is on a completely different level.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:41
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Iok is incredible because he's not a baby eating evil powermonger. In a franchise full of cynical Gihrens and Basks who don't think twice about war crimes, Iok hesitates because he understands what he's doing is awful but he goes along with it anyway. He'll drat right mow down those fleeing noncombatants in the name of his dead subordinates! It is a testament to this season's writing that Iok's development made me go from rolling my eyes at his pathetic incompetence to hating him.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:48
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Iok is the fastest I've ever turned from thinking someone is an annoying failure of a side villain to an irredeemable poo poo who needs to get it harder than anyone else on the playing field at the moment. I hope Tekkadan takes in a bunch of the Turbines next episode. 
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Jan 23, 2017 00:11
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GimmickMan posted:Iok is incredible because he's not a baby eating evil powermonger. In a franchise full of cynical Gihrens and Basks who don't think twice about war crimes, Iok hesitates because he understands what he's doing is awful but he goes along with it anyway. He'll drat right mow down those fleeing noncombatants in the name of his dead subordinates! Hell this seasons of villain was significantly better written than the first which were horrific caricactures of moustache twirling villainy. Nothing in IBO can top Kudal aside from Lord Djibril.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:20
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chiasaur11 posted:Iok's worse than Rustal. Rustal didn't even do Dort. The Arianrhod Fleet had a different commander at the time, who looks, sounds, and behaves very differently to him. The implication is that he got the job after Kudelia blew the union massacres open and the other guy resigned in disgrace. He plays a little dirty, but I think the only time he's specifically gone after civilians was that bomb that injured Makanai. He's also fascinating because while he's a stern meritocrat, he also genuinely cares for his troops regardless of talent, and is actually kind of alarmed by the suicidal lengths they go to for him - see when he tried to talk down Julietta, and tried to get Gaelio to replace Iok before the kid could self-destruct even further. I don't think he even has any particular interest in maintaining Gjallarhorn's tyranny - he's just scared shitless of McGillis. GimmickMan posted:Iok is incredible because he's not a baby eating evil powermonger. In a franchise full of cynical Gihrens and Basks who don't think twice about war crimes, Iok hesitates because he understands what he's doing is awful but he goes along with it anyway. He'll drat right mow down those fleeing noncombatants in the name of his dead subordinates! I think that firing the Dainsleifs at Julietta was a great example of this. He didn't say 'she doesn't matter', he said 'her suit will keep her safe'. And then he put someone who's repeatedly saved his life in mortal peril. The guy just does not unpack himself. Another thing I really liked was that the Amida fight managed to accomplish the incredibly difficult task of having her walk all over an opponent in a vastly superior suit and still build hype for Julietta and her new Reginlaze as the new threats on the block. It wasn't that they were bad, just that she was better.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:29
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booksnake posted:Is Merribit or the mechanic, also adult role models for Tekkadan, supposed to also have some sort of dark motive in what they do? He's already passed his point of no return offscreen by joining Teiwaz and using it as an umbrella for the women he wanted to protect, which has now reached its resolution. He got out-schemed by enemies he made. Because being a well rounded character with flaws = edgelord dark motives  If joining Teiwaz is considered passing the point of no return, do you consider Tekkadan to be in the same position?The guy who hosed over Naze wasn't any enemy he personally made, he never did anything directly to the guy that would warrant that level of betrayal. Naze's only sin was having a million hot wives and being more successful and the boss liked him more. That's it, Pimpcoat Badguy's motivation was primarily that he was jealous and he wanted Dad's attention, not because of any fault or hubris on Naze's part. ImpAtom said it better than I could, but Merribit and the mechanic aren't on the same level as Naze. To expand on his thoughts, I think Merribit and the mechanic are both interesting characters that offer two different but valid points of view to Tekkadan's actions, with Merribit being the more cautious, moral one and the mechanic being the hands off, pragmatic realist. Neither of their motives (which boil down to wanting Tekkadan to succeed and be happy, though they have different opinions on how to reach that goal) are even close to dark or ill-intentioned. With less screentime and focus, both of them managed to be far better written and complete characters than Naze. Kanos posted:The dude deployed illegal superweapons for the noble task of arresting an accused criminal(who was framed for possession of those very same superweapons), repeatedly and willfully ignored the accused's attempt to surrender peacefully in favor of opting to use those illegal superweapons to attempt to mow down fleeing civilians en masse, and then ordered those illegal superweapons to fire on an enemy with his own troops in the line of fire to preserve his own life(which was only in danger because he was an arrogant moron). Iok cleared the bar for war criminal and kept running until it was a distant memory in the distance here. I showed my bias there a bit (I really wanted an "Iok realizes the full extent of his actions, is forced to confront it" arc for him), but yeah, even though he thought he was justified, he is past redemption. He's escalating from making stupid decisions that end horribly to actively choosing actions he knows aren't right because the ends justify the means. He's really determined to piss away any little sliver of moral ground he could possibly have.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:55
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ImpAtom posted:Neither Merribit or the mechanic had a loving iota of the impact on everything the way Naze did, nor were given as much focus (if anything Merribit got sort of screwed by ending up being the voice of reason before the show undercut her). Not every adult is evil but "Naze Turbine, the Space Mafia Harem Jesus" is on a completely different level. Yes, but only because Naze is the one in a position to literally draw parallels to Orga as the head of an organization. Adel posted:Because being a well rounded character with flaws = edgelord dark motives Why are you rolling your eyes at me? I was responding to you saying the writers don't want him to "go dark side". And yes, I do consider Tekkadan's currently past a significant point - that ceremonial poo poo last season with Kudelia et al dressing up to join up with Teiwaz was them choosing their side and they're now beyond that. They have to deal with the same consequences and more. I'm not arguing with you that he's not a well-written character. I'm just thinking you're scrutinizing him in pointless ways. "Man this guy is too perfect" sounds different from "man this guy got too much screen time for a doomed mentor character" I'd be complaining if Naze no-sold this betrayal and got away, but I just see the whole point of this as being "Orga sees from example that the bigger he gets the more people will be coming to take his poo poo, which probably means he will resort to more murder" booksnake fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 01:40
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booksnake posted:I'm just thinking you're scrutinizing him in pointless ways. No, we're really not. Naze is presented as entirely too good and perfect for someone who can unironically be described as the leader of a space mafia harem ship. He offers Tekkadan tons of resources and support for basically no reason other than he's just that good a person. Everything they introduce about him boils down to "he's too good a person for this world" but without the similar treatment that, say, Kudelia got. Instead bad things happen to him because he's too good a person.His mere existence pretty heavily changed the show's dynamic and while we may see some interesting consequences for Tekkadan none of them really apply to Naze or his arc himself. And all of that ignores the inherent weirdness of the entire harem thing which is an entirely different kettle of fish. Hell, the show itself even tries to pull one over and make the audience think Naze might be a more dangerous person than he is. The original OP shifted once he was introduced because prior to that he looked helluva villainous. With Naze it's like that had that twist and then never anything more to do with him besides Orga's Perfect Mentor for another 30 episodes. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 01:55
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ImpAtom posted:He offers Tekkadan tons of resources and support for basically no reason other than he's just that good a person. "This guy is a younger me. I want better for him, because I wanted better for myself" is not a completely selfless motive, especially since the original presentation was Orga earned his respect by outsmarting him in a ship battle. And I use "respect" to also mean "idea of threat/cost of engagement", not just endearment. quote:His mere existence pretty heavily changed the show's dynamic and while we may see some interesting consequences for Tekkadan none of them really apply to Naze or his arc himself. This is my point, though. I care about Orga's changes, not Naze's changes. I care about Takaki's changes, not sellout Teiwaz accountant's changes. I don't think every piece needs to be that dynamic. quote:Hell, the show itself even tries to pull one over and make the audience think Naze might be a more dangerous person than he is. The original OP shifted once he was introduced because prior to that he looked helluva villainous. With Naze it's like that had that twist and then never anything more to do with him besides Orga's Perfect Mentor for another 30 episodes. I don't remember this at all, though. So fair point? I didn't have that impression loving with me.
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Jan 23, 2017 02:43
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Adel posted:Because being a well rounded character with flaws = edgelord dark motives Jasley's belief is that Teiwaz isn't some sort of charity movement, it is a ruthless business conglomerate with criminal style hierarchy to maintain balance between rival corps in the outer rim as they are the only ones with legitimate authority with the Gjallarhorn people being nothing more than honorary inspectors who best keep quiet or it's the shoals for you. Naze's involvment in this and Tekkadan twisted Teiwaz's values too much to his liking, suddenly you got these drat idealists who is making a Mars a prosperous place when it should be low investment high profit planet to ensure the workers never have any ideas. CP Gray's Rules for Rulers puts this idea quite well, a resource extraction economy for Mars keeps the people down but Orga and to a lesser extent Naze is rocking the boat too much and Jasley figures he needs to kill Naze in a way that leaves him disgraced. He would prefer it if the girls were back to working low paying shipping jobs and sex workers and with Naze and Amida outta the way, Lafter, Azee and Eko are at risk of being poached and exploited by Jasley. This season's tone has shifted from the hopeful spirits of rising up against oppression to a desperate fight were sacrifices are constantly made as seen in almost every arc. The SAU/ABRAU skirmish destroyed Takaki's optimism, took Aston's life and the dissolution of the Earth Branch The Hashmal attack took any hopes for a normal life for Mika and a month's worth of repairs to the Chryse area. The Teiwaz civil war has already taken Naze, Amida and a lot of Turbine lives, including the Hammerhead control team save Eko (who was crying as she was escaping in the Launches) and shows no signs of stopping Jasley is one of those rotten to the core type who will be vouched by Iok as someone who restored order to Rustal and I have a bad feeling this bloodshed will cost Orga his link to Teiwaz wherever it is by taking out Jasley or when Jasley gives him the boot.
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Jan 23, 2017 02:45
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I think Naze's kind of interesting because as much good as he does, and as nice as he ostensibly is, he ultimately got where he was in life by giving people who were considered the dregs of society a fair shake. He didn't go out of his way or sacrifice much (well, until now) as far as we've seen. He just gave people who had potential, but were looked down on for one reason or another a chance when nobody else would. He offered a deal that benefited both sides when everyone else was in a rush to screw the Turbines girls/Tekkadan kids over. His great act of humanitarianism is basically the fact that the WORST thing he does is sleep with his employees. The fact that he comes across as a saint is pretty damning condemnation of this setting (as if the fact that our ostensible protagonist, a child soldier, gradually turning both figuratively and literally into a bloodthirsty killing machine wasn't already a big clue).
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Jan 23, 2017 02:47
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Personally, I am not really bothered that Naze was killed off, he just wasn't that interesting of a character. However at this point, I find it difficult to imagine any type of karmic justice rebound against Iok that would be really satisfying. Most of the ways the villains in this show have met their ends would seem to be getting off too easily for him.
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Jan 23, 2017 02:52
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Indiana_Krom posted:However at this point, I find it difficult to imagine any type of karmic justice rebound against Iok that would be really satisfying. Most of the ways the villains in this show have met their ends would seem to be getting off too easily for him. I dunno. Honestly, he's gonna get Mika'd and I wouldn't be surprised if he's the proving ground for the Lupus Rex. At this point, I miss the crab hammer because its the exact level of unnecessary, super hosed up murder weapon that would be perfect for Iok.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:00
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I really hope that Iok ends up on the business end of Barbatos' new claws.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:03
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The actual real justice is Iok accidentally felling Rustal to humiliation and disgrace that makes it easy pickings for McGillis to exploit.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:22
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booksnake posted:Why are you rolling your eyes at me? I was responding to you saying the writers don't want him to "go dark side". And yes, I do consider Tekkadan's currently past a significant point - that ceremonial poo poo last season with Kudelia et al dressing up to join up with Teiwaz was them choosing their side and they're now beyond that. They have to deal with the same consequences and more. Ah, I misread your intention with the dark side comment, I thought you are implying (like some people tend to do) that the only valid way for a character to have depth is to make them edgy/secretly evil. I'm still not 100% sure what type asking about, can you clarity a bit? I find it really interesting that you think Tekkadan has crossed the point of no return. I don't disagree, I just think a lot of us are willing to give some moral leeway to Tekkadan because of their situation so seeing someone take a harder moral stance is unexpected. This isn't a trick question or anything, but do you think Tekkadan is completely beyond redemption? Can they morally recover? OnimaruXLR posted:I think Naze's kind of interesting because as much good as he does, and as nice as he ostensibly is, he ultimately got where he was in life by giving people who were considered the dregs of society a fair shake. He didn't go out of his way or sacrifice much (well, until now) as far as we've seen. He just gave people who had potential, but were looked down on for one reason or another a chance when nobody else would. He offered a deal that benefited both sides when everyone else was in a rush to screw the Turbines girls/Tekkadan kids over. His great act of humanitarianism is basically the fact that the WORST thing he does is sleep with his employees. The concept isn't bad, and a mentor figure/intermediary between Tekkadan and the Jovian Mafia is a character role that should work, it's just the execution and the undue amount of positive focus that Naze gets doesn't sit right with me because it's completely undeserved. Naze didn't just help out the dregs of society, he specifically targeted vulnerable women and helped them out with the condition that they become his wife-daughters. If he'd made it clear that the marriage was strictly to get around legal issues that's be kinda creepy but ok, he's using the system to their benefit, but he explicitly states that's not that case. In that sort of situation, I honestly don't believe that every single woman under his command is there because they genuinely love him of their own free will when putting out is an implied contractual part of being a crew member. That's hosed up in a lot of ways, but the fact that the show doesn't recognize it as hosed up, is trying to sell it as yes thousands of women literally love him no problem, and actually praises Naze for it is even MORE hosed up. That's not saintly or selfless at all, but the show is trying to convince us otherwise in spite of usually being willing to label hosed up things. It's a really weird part that stands out because it doesn't fit the tone or the message of the show and comes off like someone's masterbatory Mary sue fantasy got accidentally stapled onto a Gundam show.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:25
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Thoughts: 1)When a Gundam wants you to hate a character, god drat do they nail it. 2)Naze becomes far more tolerable a character to me now that this episode has come and gone. The vibe I get from him, overall: as a member of space mafia he is nowhere near close to a saint, but he tries to do good things whenever possible. He gives chances to those who wouldn't otherwise get one, as someone mentioned earlier. He's always willing to help, even if it puts him out. Of course, it's not like he's completely selfless in all this: he benefits greatly from the partnerships and trust he creates with Tekkadan and the Turbines. The Turbines helped him quickly make a name for himself both in and out of Teiwaz; McMurdo rewards him for his acquisition/creation of a huge military/economic force, the Turbines increase their numbers, and Naze gets the admiration of a ton of women who are grateful to get a second chance. Tekkadan is the same, in that Teiwaz gains another huge military force while also appealing to children in similar situations to Mika/Orga before the series begins, McMurdo moves Naze up the ladder further, and he earns another form of protection in Tekkadan. Hell, that Tekkadan had pilots figuring out their own scheme to help Naze tells me a lot about how everyone feels about him. No one may have as close of a bond with Naze as Orga did, but they clearly value him or his Turbines. Naze to me can't really be a "good guy." He's a member of space mafia, and it would not surprise me to see him responsible for a myriad of deaths and who knows what over the years. I think he'd rather look like a saint to others though. Not saying it's an act, per se, but maybe dressing up his responsibilities as "random acts of kindness" helps him cope with how lovely and brutal the job is. McMurdo, from what I can tell, likes the way Naze operates as well. A guy like Jasley probably wouldn't make it to the top of the mob unless McMurdo had no other choice. If Naze survived the entire series I think I'd be just a little put off by it. As it is, I'm content with how everything turned out. EDIT: Also, is it all of Turbines that are his wives, or just the Hammerhead? Both are not healthy or normal, but one is significantly more preferable than the other. 
Shinjobi fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 04:25
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I think the only satisfying way for Iok to die is to nearly be killed by Mika, then as he is escaping Shino hits him with the galaxy cannon. He would die in the same way he ordered Naze, Amida, and the Turbine girls to die.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:53
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Adel posted:Ah, I misread your intention with the dark side comment, I thought you are implying (like some people tend to do) that the only valid way for a character to have depth is to make them edgy/secretly evil. I'm still not 100% sure what type asking about, can you clarity a bit?
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Jan 23, 2017 04:56
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Shinjobi posted:Thoughts: Only Amida he consider as he wife and had a couple of kids with, everyone else is either an employee or in a physical relationship as seen with Lafter and Eko. Only Lafter you can say is the only one who was the most active one. Funny thing is that the crew (Eko, Blid and Chloe) bear his surname which hints they are adopted as former human debris who would have spend their lives being expendable playthings for Teiwaz.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:58
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Apprentice Dick posted:I think the only satisfying way for Iok to die is to nearly be killed by Mika, then as he is escaping Shino hits him with the galaxy cannon. He would die in the same way he ordered Naze, Amida, and the Turbine girls to die. Iok needs to die from some random low ranking Turbine member finding him in an alley and putting two bullets into his face as he cowers like he did behind that chair.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:12
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I still feel all these are too random and therefore good for Iok. Having him be killed by Rustal would be the ultimate justice.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:14
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I would like for him to get the robo-Ein treatment, but just left in a glass jar not connected to anything.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:30
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Psycho Landlord posted:I don't have time to go back and rewatch, but they definitely showed a bunch of dead turbines after the giant railgun-arbalest attacks so maybe they were in that shot? I don't remember them popping up afterwards. Let's also not forget the girl who got locked behind depressurizing bulkheads.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:47
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gyrobot posted:Only Amida he consider as he wife and had a couple of kids with, everyone else is either an employee or in a physical relationship as seen with Lafter and Eko. Only Lafter you can say is the only one who was the most active one. Funny thing is that the crew (Eko, Blid and Chloe) bear his surname which hints they are adopted as former human debris who would have spend their lives being expendable playthings for Teiwaz. In ep 8 when Kudelia and Atra are in the Turbines nursery, it's explained that the children there are all Naze's but with different mothers (there's around 5-10 babies? Hard to tell) and that's just the ones on the ship. There are an unknown number of older kids on Earth or Mars of various ages, some old enough to be in school. So it's not just Amida and a couple kids. I thought I remember Naze specifying saying that the wife thing isn't a joke and that he takes it seriously, but I'll check tomorrow and see if I'm full of poo poo or not. At the very least, an alarming number of his "employees" regularly bear his children. Edit: Dulkor posted:I'm with most of this argument, but last week they explicitly spelled it out that the wife thing is largely just a protective measure and absolutely no one is required to do a thing with Naze, he just wasn't saying no to anyone who was interested. The fact that Naze sleeps with them at all is disturbing. Even if there is absolutely no pressure from him, he's still in a position of authority and if he wanted (not saying he would) he could kick any of them off the ship, and they'd probably be worse off since their previous crew were likely absorbed into Turbines. The implied pressure to sleep with the boss in order to secure your spot, especially once babies start coming into the mix, is enough that any interest shown can't be comfortably taken as completely genuine. The only exception is Amida who has horrible taste  I don't mean to sound like I'm moving goalposts, there is just no way, in my opinion, that the Turbines dynamic will ever not be creepy and it creeps me of that the show thinks it's p cool. a computer ghost fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 06:10
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I really don't think we're meant to believe he married every single member of the Turbines, I thought it was pretty obvious it's the crew of the Hammerhead he gives special treatment to.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:21
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