Auspol January 2017: relentless incoherence and incompetence.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January 2017: relentless incoherence and incompetence.

«‹›44 »

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

I just think it's weird that they are worried about new home construction, must know some LNP backers who will profit from it?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 01:06

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:15

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Obviously. Property developers aren't voting Greens.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 01:09

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

open24hours posted:

Mr Sukkar said the government would not countenance changes to negative gearing, but voters could expect a "big, multifaceted approach" that could extend to "serious tax reform" in co-operation with the states.

So this means they'll just give developers massive tax cuts. Cause if you aren't going to get rid of negative gearing or capital gains tax deductions then that's pretty much the only option.

LOL @ calls to increase supply when half the poo poo they are building these days will become unlivable in 10 years:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/collapsed-ceilings-and-stalactites-the-pointy-end-of-victorias-faulty-building-crisis-20170119-gtuyet.html posted:

Victoria's faulty and leaky buildings will be probed in a government inquiry, amid revelations apartment ceilings have suddenly collapsed and stalactites have been discovered in multi-storey complexes.

Some of Melbourne's poorly built towers were exposed when a major rainstorm hit the city last month, leading to a shortage of mould dehumidifiers and other drying equipment.

More than 25 millimetres of rain drenched Melbourne suburbs in 30 minutes when the storm hit on December 29.

Up to 30 centimetres of flooding was reported at some new apartments when litres of water leaked into roofs, pooled among the insulation and crashed through ceilings, rectification teams reported.

The Victorian Building Authority (VBA) has announced it is holding an inquiry to determine if there are "systematic problems" with the standard of building and plumbing work across the state.

It follows an ongoing investigation by Fairfax Media exposing residential buildings in Victoria so poorly constructed they are dangerous, or are likely to fall prematurely derelict.

It also came to light that stalactites are considered "common" in the basement of new residential buildings � with the formations evidence of slow and persistent leaks from upper storeys, often caused by inadequate waterproofing of gardens or bathrooms.

"It's essentially like body cancer, in that you have to cut out the affected area of concrete or the cancer will keep on spreading," said Sahil Bhasin, the national general manager of Roscon, a company that specialises in identifying building defects.

Roscon received 170 call-outs in the wake of the December 29 rain storm, including ceiling collapses in Taylors Lakes, St Kilda, South Morang, Kingsbury and Macleod, where owners were met with a wave of water when they opened their front doors.

In Greensborough, all 20 units in one apartment complex were flooded and the water leached out into the corridor, the flooding so deep the footsteps of the residents walking to their units sent ripples along the carpet.

The VBA's chief executive, Prue Digby, has acknowledged that substandard waterproofing is a "possible systemic issue" in Victoria.

Foreshadowing what could be in store locally, New Zealand has experienced a leaky building crisis with an estimated cost to the nation's economy of more than $11 billion.

David Pockett, a specialist in plumbing defect insurance claims, said Victoria could also be sitting on a multi-billion-dollar problem, describing the situation as a "huge public scandal".

"You're talking billions in long-term costs, because people's homes are going to be prematurely destroyed by water," he said.

"Houses that should be lasting 50 years are going to last 10. It's just insane."

Mr Pockett said there had been a widespread failure to enforce Australian standards around gutters and drains, resulting in rainwater overflowing into roof spaces and flooding homes.

He said owners were being left many thousands of dollars out of pocket, as many insurers refused to cover flood damage caused by defective materials or workmanship.

Though for many homeowners, headaches like this are just start of a much bigger nightmare, with protracted legal disputes leaving them traumatised and financially crippled.

In Abbotsford, retiree Julie Gaffney has become the reluctant owner of a luxury apartment since declared "not fit for purpose".

Ms Gaffney said the home flooded fives times between July 2013, when she moved in, and May 2015. She stepped out of bed one morning and was shocked to find her feet soaked in water.

"I just thought 'my God'," she said.

"The water was an inch and a half deep across the whole bedroom floor. It squelched as you walked on it.

Building regulation experts du Chateau Chun inspected Ms Gaffney's apartment at her request and concluded the unit was not constructed according to the building permit or the requirements of the Building Code of Australia, with water likely leaking through two walls not adequately waterproofed.

However the builder, Hamilton Marino, denies there was a breach of the building code. Director Fred McKenzie said in a statement "the building has been designed and constructed in accordance with the BCA and this has been verified by independent consultants".

"We have investigated the defect upon being notified of it and have put together a solution for it to be rectified," he said.

"We have been denied access to attend to the defect for reasons unknown to us and the owner has decided to go to VCAT."

Ms Gaffney has recently been hospitalised with a severe a respiratory illness, and believes the toxic mould may have worsened her existing asthma, although the mould connection has not been investigated or proven by experts.

"For most of the time I was living in the apartment, I was waking up in the middle of the night coughing, scratching and wanting to pull my nose off," she said.

Ms Gaffney and a neighbour are now taking the builder and developer, Trenerry Property Group director Robert Dicintio, to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

They are seeking more than $240,000 in compensation, including for lost rent and damage to valuable books, some originally owned by Ms Gaffney's late husband.

Developer Robert Dicintio said he couldn't comment because he did not want to prejudice the planning tribunal case. "But all parties are participating in the legal process and I'm sure a suitable outcome will be achieved," he said.

There was a 44 per cent increase in building complaints made to the VBA last financial year, an increase the regulator attributes to its "raised profile" following an $117,000 advertising campaign.

The VBA's inquiry into failures in domestic buildings is due to be completed by August but chief executive Prue Digby said the community should have confidence in the majority of building work in Victoria.

"Victorians should expect that buildings will be built to the required standards, unfortunately for some consumers things can and do go wrong. The VBA will continue to address issues of poor workmanship and improve outcomes for building consumers," she said.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 01:13

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

speaking of which:

quote:

Combustible cladding to be stripped off Lacrosse Docklands tower

Combustible cladding plastered across a Docklands high-rise will be stripped from the building after it was found the imported material posed a "significant and unacceptable" risk to hundreds of residents.

On Monday, the Building Appeals Board ordered the owners to remove the material. It quashed a bid by LU Simon Builders to keep the cladding and instead install more sprinklers, saying the equipment might fail with "catastrophic" results.

"The risk posed by the current cladding is so serious that it is necessary to have a building order which requires the owners to remedy the situation," the board found.

The decision means the 470 owners of the Lacrosse apartments could be left with an $8.6 million cladding replacement bill, on top of $6.5 million already spent to fix damage from a fire that tore up the 21-storey building in November 2014.

The determination also raises questions about the safety of the building, after the board found balconies were being used to store residents' possessions � which, along with the combustible cladding, helped fuel the spread of the 2014 blaze.

While Melbourne City Council's building surveyor has insisted that the Lacrosse building is safe to occupy, it remains on the condition that interim safety measures such as keeping balconies clear of clutter and preventing overcrowding are in place.

On Monday many balconies at Lacrosse were cluttered with items, including clothes horses.

Resident Yuka Saito said she did not even know there had been fire in the building. The 26-year-old Japanese student has lived in the tower for a year, with five people in a two-bedroom unit.

"Every Wednesday or Thursday there is an alarm [for a fire drill], but nobody cares," she said.

And living rooms in the tower are still being rented out as bedrooms. A current advertisement offers a place in a "bunk bed" for $20 a day.

A council spokeswoman said occasional instances of balcony clutter had been rectified and council was auditing maintenance records at the building about every four months.

The Building Appeals Board is yet to rule on when the cladding will have to be removed and, with a Supreme Court appeal possible, Fire Protection Association Australia chief executive Scott Williams said he was concerned the issue would drag on.
Another cluttered balcony at the Lacrosse tower.
Another cluttered balcony at the Lacrosse tower. Photo: Chris Hopkins

Mr Williams said it only took a small combustible item, and the right circumstances, for a fire to start.

"I think it is very hard for Melbourne City Council to enforce [clutter on balconies]. People have a right to use them, but in these circumstances, until that cladding is replaced, there continues to be a heightened level of risk," he said.

Adding to the safety concerns, an engineering expert told the latest appeal that there was "no fire separation within or between" floors in the tower.

"I would argue it's a common law property right that fires should not spread to other properties," Dr Tony Enright, a fellow of Engineers Australia, said.

"While a fire within a building can occur, people including emergency responders shouldn't be injured or die, and another person's property shouldn't be damaged."

A spokeswoman for LU Simon declined to say whether the construction company would foot the bill for the replacement cladding.

"We are awaiting directions from the lawyers as to the effect of the judgment on ourselves and the owners," she said.

At least 140 owners are already seeking $15 million in compensation from the builder in an ongoing Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal case.

LU Simon had proposed to install balcony sprinklers and wall wetting sprinklers, but the board said it was not satisfied the sprinklers would operate properly during high-wind conditions.

It said the installed Alucobest cladding did not meet the relevant performance requirements of the Building Code of Australia and "was highly unusual for a building of Lacrosse's size".

The Metropolitan Fire Brigade warned even if additional wall sprinklers were installed, the fire could spread significantly before the sprinklers were activated.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/combustible-cladding-to-be-stripped-off-lacrosse-docklands-tower-20170116-gtslcj.html

# ? Jan 23, 2017 01:20

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

a bid by LU Simon Builders to keep the cladding and instead install more sprinklers

lmao

# ? Jan 23, 2017 01:21

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

speaking of which:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/combustible-cladding-to-be-stripped-off-lacrosse-docklands-tower-20170116-gtslcj.html

That poo poo is probably so prevalent that the buildings that don't flood will burn. Some will do both.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 01:26

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Recoome posted:

I thought a major problem in our capital cities wasn't actual supply of housing, but the continual pushing outwards to more isolated areas which don't have adequate infrastructure coupled with inflated house prices closer to the city

the problem is parasitic rent-seekers who are advantaged over people actually seeking a home

# ? Jan 23, 2017 02:02

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

The sad thing is that because existing housing is a non productive investment it would be a significant economic stimulus to remove the tax incentives associated with it.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 02:17

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

norp posted:

The sad thing is that because existing housing is a non productive investment it would be a significant economic stimulus to remove the tax incentives associated with it.

And the cheaper houses are for owner occupiers the more money they have to spend on other stuff.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 02:25

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Lid posted:

In the least surprising news ever Left Renewal founders, convenors etc. all are from USyd's student young Greens party, all people who were on the student council there, and are anarchists. Student politicians are the loving worst I swear.

Got any more I can read about it?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 02:46

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Got any more I can read about it?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/new-left-faction-that-threatens-to-white-ant-the-greens-20170119-gtuowl.html

# ? Jan 23, 2017 02:53

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Less than three years ago the one-time Liberal party staffer James Ashby was, by his own account, done with politics and running a small printing business from his parents� property in the Sunshine Coast hinterland.

His clients included a local vet, a realty agency and in time, another political party that was at least 18 months away from an extraordinary resurgence.

Today, Ashby stands at the heart of One Nation as Pauline Hanson�s chief of staff, and touting the unthinkable as the party takes a tilt at not just a slew of seats but control of government in a Queensland election due over the next year.

He says the Liberal National opposition, which he warns should brace for more defections to One Nation after being left red-faced by the departure of the sitting MP Steve Dickson, �might be looking at forming a coalition of government with Labor�.

�That�s scary,� Ashby says.

The One Nation machine continues to invite intrigue with rumours about a pair of wildcard candidates in the Queensland campaign: namely Ashby and Hanson, the latter in a move that would leave her federal Senate spot open to someone else from the party.

Ashby continues to insist that suggestions he will run are �pure speculation�, dismissing accounts by party sources, including former executive member Ian Nelson, that he has repeatedly shown interest in standing for office.

Of the Hanson rumour, Ashby says: �I can�t make comment on that.�

Hanson and her federal Senate sidekicks Malcolm Roberts and Brian Burston continue to draw daily national media attention, their share of voice undiminished despite continuing mishaps.

They range from the debacle surrounding their former colleague Rod Culleton, to Hanson�s contested account of being invited to Donald Trump�s US presidential inauguration, to social media controversies that have triggered the loss of some state candidates and sharp criticism of others.

One Nation�s short-lived candidate for Currumbin, Andy Semple, who quit after being told to delete a joke on Twitter about an LGBT T-shirt, panned the party following revelations it had lobbied for tickets to Trump�s inauguration.

�1 nation prone to hype and over exaggeration. When will the penny drop with the public?� Semple said on Twitter on Wednesday.

He also told Guardian Australia that Hanson�s call for a national identity card to avert welfare fraud, including by non-citizens, showed she was �rather good at creating a headline � pity the substance of the policy is a terrible idea�.

�So today One Nation wants to target Australians on welfare. We�re constantly told not to infer all Muslims are jihadists but it seems fine for the senator to infer all Australians who receive welfare are ripping off the system.�

Hanson has had no trouble finding a media platform for the policy pronouncements there have been so far for Queensland. They include a call for the revival of Queensland�s upper house and a ban on burqas in public buildings (which was part of One Nation�s previous federal platform).

Both have found favour with the independent Queensland parliamentary Speaker, Peter Wellington, though the former has been slammed by Katter�s Australia party as a disaster for the bush as Hanson�s plan involves halving the number of lower house MPs to represent constituents.

Hanson has also called for an amnesty on prosecutions of people who source black market cannabis oil to treat medical conditions amid delays in local supplies. Dickson says the LNP and the Labor government have dragged their feet on the legalisation of medical cannabis, and the medical supply regime is not due to come into effect until the end of the year.

The prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, has branded an amnesty in the meantime as irresponsible.

The details of the rest of One Nation�s agenda in its Queensland birthplace and stronghold are yet to be spelt out.

The party opposes coal seam gas for its unproven effects on the land as well as rural residents. The implications for the state�s multibillion-dollar gas export industry, which both major parties have credited as the single most important factor driving near-term economic growth, are uncertain.

Ashby says that by the end of this month One Nation may release a plan to stimulate industries in regional and northern communities, which he accuses both major parties of neglecting.

One Nation recognises the strength of its support base � which a poll late last year put at a a 16% primary vote statewide � as being outside the urban south-east of the state.

�We�re reinvigorating the regions. The goal is to give them back the voice that�s been drowned out by the oversaturation of politicians in that south-east corner,� Ashby says. �They�ve been weak, there�s been no foresight for Queensland as a whole.�

A former senior LNP powerbroker has told Guardian Australia One Nation would be a dangerous prospect in power. Other LNP figures have noted with disquiet One Nation�s continuing support for candidates from the fundamentalist Christian right, such as Tracey Bell-Henselin, who has drawn criticism for her comments about the LGBTI community.

Bell-Henselin is a former candidate for Rise Up Australia, whose links to the Catch A Fire Christian ministries resulted in the latter�s charity status being revoked this week. The Rise Up national secretary, Yvonne Gentle, says that in the absence of its own campaign in Queensland, there is every chance its supporters will lend a hand to One Nation on the ground.

Ashby says the party has held no discussion with the LNP about sharing power, �and we�re not interested in forming government with the Liberal National party�, he adds.

�We�re interested in going to this next election to win government and Pauline�s made that very clear.�

In the next state parliament, which will be expanded to 94 seats and will involve a fixed four-year term, One Nation would need to command at least 48 seats to win government outright.

Its last high watermark in Queensland politics was 11 seats in 1998.

The party has announced 36 candidates, lost two, and gained the sitting MP in Dickson.

�We�re not mucking around here, it�s not just about the balance of power,� Ashby insists.

�We want to go out there and change the way in which Queensland is run. It�s clear the other two parties just haven�t had any foresight or longevity plan.�

It�s an extraordinary position for a former Liberal party aide, who quit politics amid controversy surrounding his role in the downfall of Peter Slipper, his one-time employer and the federal Liberal MP turned Labor-appointed parliamentary speaker.

In a scandal dubbed �Ashbygate�, Ashby and the former federal Liberal minister Mal Brough were investigated by the Australian federal police over claims Ashby had illegally copied Slipper�s diary and leaked it to Brough.

The AFP dropped its investigation last October after what Ashby described as �nothing more than a political campaign by Labor�.

Ashby had taken up the printing trade and called the then One Nation executive member Nelson to offer his services for the party�s 2015 Queensland election campaign material.

Nelson says he had offered the services �at cost, but on one condition, that he got to meet Pauline�.

Ashby remained the party�s printing supplier until he volunteered to use his camera to take footage of Hanson on election day, when she narrowly lost the seat of Lockyer.

A licensed pilot with a decade�s experience, Ashby came to spend long hours in the air with Hanson during One Nation�s watershed federal campaign, winning her ear, her trust and a role as her right-hand man.

�I only became involved in the party through request,� Ashby says. �At that moment I had always indicated I had no interest in returning to politics. Slowly the party was in need of people to assist, keep it afloat, they were looking for executive members that would help drive the party forward, not backwards, they were looking for some fresh younger blood. My skill set was completely different to everybody else.�

Another younger recruit to play a key role in Hanson�s return to prominence after years in the political wilderness was the musician and social media business consultant Saraya Beric.

Beric, 32, says she was asked by Hanson to operate her Facebook page during her run at the New South Wales Senate in 2013. Hanson�s son Adam, a carer, had seen Beric give a social media marketing talk to a business on the Gold Coast.

Beric ran Hanson�s social media strategy until the One Nation leader was elected to the federal Senate. Beric had already become One Nation�s Queensland and national secretary, as well as the administrator of its inner Brisbane office, which had its rent paid for through a donation by a Melbourne property developer.

She says the dynamics behind the growth in popular support that propelled Hanson and three other One Nation candidates to the federal Senate last July became obvious through the social media engagement.

�There were outside forces boosting it,� Beric says.

The more party figures attacked Hanson � who routinely attracts withering derision from members of the broader public opposed to her right-leaning agenda � the more supporters rallied around her, Beric says.

Other events that were seen as linked to One Nation�s agenda of limiting immigration, especially of Muslims, and a program that amounts to a cultural purge of Islam in Australia, had a similar effect.

�When the government under Tony Abbott said they�d let in 12,000 Syrians, the phones were ringing non-stop,� Beric says. �We even had refugees ringing � a guy who�s in Port Pirie now, a refugee from the Middle East, even he was saying we can�t have them here.�

Turnbull�s vanquishing of Abbott as prime minister led to a �whole heap� of conservative Liberal party supporters �jumping ship�, she says.

�Then there were a couple of terrorist attacks overseas, and I think the final one was when Turnbull said Pauline was not welcome in politics.

�That really got up people�s noses because parliament�s supposed to be for everyone, really, not just lawyers or political staffers who move up the ranks. When Turnbull said that, I just went, �Yes!� Whenever they attacked, the support grew.�

Beric�s departure from the party has left one apparent skills void in the One Nation office.

On its website, the party lists the full profiles of only eight of its 35 current state election candidates, though it promises �more info� to come.

Beric declined to elaborate on previous reported comments that her exit was linked to her disappointment �at the treatment of some people in the party�.

But it�s clear the controversy that surrounded Ashby during the Slipper affair has also accompanied his rise in One Nation, notably in his falling out with Nelson, a longtime party figure.

Nelson says: �Everyone�s saying I�m bitter, I�m not. I did it for 20 years mate, so all I want is for Pauline to succeed and not have [Ashby] around her.�

Shan Ju Lin, the former One Nation Bundamba candidate who was dumped over Facebook comments that �gays should be treated as patients�, says �Ashby is the person that wanted to disendorse me and Pauline listened to him�.

�From his communication I can see that,� Lin says.

�If he does run, Pauline will lose 50% of her supporters for sure. That will just make the party look very bad, also because he has a history.

�Pauline really has to wake up very soon before Ashby drags down the party.�

Hanson remains a staunch supporter of her chief of staff.

While laying out One Nation�s bold agenda in Queensland, Ashby borrows a metaphor from one of his pilot instructors to spell out the risks for a party that has once before collapsed in disarray after unheralded electoral success.

�Taking off and flying along is all well and good but you�ve got to realise it doesn�t take much to stall a plane or put it in a spin,� he says.

�You gotta remember you gotta fly that thing from takeoff to landing.

�There�s plenty of things that could go wrong; we could put this thing into a spin if we wanted. We�ve still gotta be careful.�

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:12

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

Anidav posted:

Hanson and her federal Senate sidekicks Malcolm Roberts and Brian Burston continue to draw daily national media attention, their share of voice undiminished despite continuing mishaps.

Because you morons in the media keep giving them air time, that's why they keep getting attention.

gently caress, if the Murdoch media ignored One Nation as much as they do with the Greens, that party would be dead within months.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:25

ZombyDog: Jul 11, 2001; Ere to fix yer gubbinz

You Am I posted:

Because you morons in the media keep giving them air time, that's why they keep getting attention.

gently caress, if the Murdoch media ignored One Nation as much as they do with the Greens, that party would be dead within months.

Hey it worked for the Donald, the lowest campaign spend because all of the News gave him free press.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:58

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Hanson absolutely benefited from appearances on Sunrise and Dancing With the Stars too.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:11

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

QUACKTASTIC posted:

lmao

Let's just take a moment to remind ourselves what a cladding fire looks like and ponder how much a few extra sprinklers would do to help:

Lid posted:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/new-left-faction-that-threatens-to-white-ant-the-greens-20170119-gtuowl.html

On a 1 to 10 sliding scale of surprising things, I'd have to rate that the platonic ideal of zero.

Thanks for the link, I'm, going to send it around to my Green friends because Trots are like cockroaches, for every one you see a dozen more are wriggling around in their own poo poo between the walls.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:11

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Lid posted:

i think socialism is incompatible with anarcho-communism

Depends if you're using a Marxian definition ie. a transitionary state, or the one favoured by anarchists, collective ownership of the means of production. :goonsay:

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:12

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Lets replace this flammable cladding and replace with balsa wood to save weight, sure to undercut the other bids :v:

Don't worry we'll paint it stone grey using lead based paint from China, you won't see the difference at all.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 07:10

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

The buildings are flammable but also not waterproof, which balances things out nicely.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 07:13

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

The buildings are flammable but also not waterproof, which balances things out nicely.

Well it's certainly one way to deal with the housing bubble.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 09:39

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jan/23/unlawfully-obtained-dna-evidence-ruled-admissible-in-northern-territory-case

Interesting possible precedent a court has ruled that unlawfully obtained DNA is admissible because of the seriousness of tge crime.

Essentially a woman was raped and police got 42 men and boys in the area to volunteer DNA, the community only being about 500 so tensions were high with a violent rapist among them.

One of the tests came back positive, a now 16 year old who is illiterate. It was argued, and accepted, as illiterate he could not have knowable consent to having his DNA taken.

The case hinges on this DNA and if it were dismissed they could not get the DNA otherwise, fruit from the poisonous tree and what not.

He will be convicted now but this i don't know what will happen on the inevitable appeal. I am inclined to think the conviction will be quashed.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 10:05

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

The Wire's arch drug lord, Avon Barksdale, was admirably philosophical about a long custodial sentence: "You only serve two days, the day you go in, and the day you get out".

It's a mentality that might readily be grasped by vanquished opposition parties facing another fruitless term in the wilderness. But no. These days, its the winners who seem to feel most hemmed in, constrained at every turn by the crushing pressures of a febrile polity, internal divisions, anaemic growth, and the prospect of more-or-less inevitable failure.

For Malcolm Turnbull, and indeed many governments recently, Barksdale's gallows optimism strangely resonates. Mike Baird's early departure is probably a case in point. For him, the Rubik's Cube of policy and politics became more diabolical with time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-uAVCpyEY

# ? Jan 23, 2017 10:35

Whitlam: Aug 2, 2014; Some goons overreact. Go figure.

Lid posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jan/23/unlawfully-obtained-dna-evidence-ruled-admissible-in-northern-territory-case

Interesting possible precedent a court has ruled that unlawfully obtained DNA is admissible because of the seriousness of tge crime.

Essentially a woman was raped and police got 42 men and boys in the area to volunteer DNA, the community only being about 500 so tensions were high with a violent rapist among them.

One of the tests came back positive, a now 16 year old who is illiterate. It was argued, and accepted, as illiterate he could not have knowable consent to having his DNA taken.

The case hinges on this DNA and if it were dismissed they could not get the DNA otherwise, fruit from the poisonous tree and what not.

He will be convicted now but this i don't know what will happen on the inevitable appeal. I am inclined to think the conviction will be quashed.

Depending on where you are in Australia, this is already the situation - evidence obtained illegally isn't necessarily inadmissible http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ea200880/s138.html (sorry if you're a lawyer and this is condescending, it's just literally the only thing I remember from Evidence Law).

# ? Jan 23, 2017 10:35

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Whitlam posted:

Depending on where you are in Australia, this is already the situation - evidence obtained illegally isn't necessarily inadmissible http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ea200880/s138.html (sorry if you're a lawyer and this is condescending, it's just literally the only thing I remember from Evidence Law).

Aye the same is in NSW, admittedly my memory of evidence law in that regard is limited. In one ear, out the other.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 11:03

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Lid posted:

Aye the same is in NSW, admittedly my memory of evidence law in that regard is limited. In one ear, out the other.

yeah NSW has the uniform evidence law as well.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 11:12

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Witnesses testify in Bob Day hearing

Retired senator Bob Day asked his ex-business partner if he could put a property under his wife's name so it wouldn't be a "conflict", a court has heard.

The evidence emerged in a pre trial hearing in the High Court, sitting as the Court of Disputed Returns, for the former Family First senator.

The court is taking the unusual step of hearing from witnesses before the full bench considers next month whether Mr Day was ineligible for election.

At issue is whether Mr Day was incapable to be elected at last year's poll, due to a pecuniary interest in the lease of a property at 77 Fullerton Road, Kent Town, SA, which was partly used as his electorate office.

Mr Day's former business partner, John Smith, testified on Monday that Mr Day asked if he could put the property in the name of his wife, Deb.

Mr Day said it was because he wasn't allowed to receive Commonwealth lease payments if it remained in his name.

"He said there'd be a conflict," Mr Smith said, and that if Mr Day put it his own wife's name it was still "too close".

"I said as long as I don't have to do anything, as long as it doesn't cost me anything, I'm happy," Mr Smith said.

"Bob said he'd take care of everything and that was basically it."

Deb Smith told court her husband came to her two years ago and said Mr Day wanted to put the property into her name.

She said she didn't read the documents to transfer the ownership and "just signed it where it was marked".

"I certainly wouldn't have pored over them, I've never done that," she said.

Mrs Smith said she didn't realise she was being made a director of a new company called Fullerton Investments, believing she was simply the owner.

Mr Day denies having a direct or indirect pecuniary interest in the lease, executed about 1 December, 2015, between Fullarton Investments and the Commonwealth.

Former Labor senator Anne McEwen, who lost her seat at the 2016 election, is a party to the case, along with Mr Day and the Commonwealth attorney-general.

The case continues on Tuesday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/witnesses-testify-in-bob-day-hearing/news-story/0ebdb68b257bbce525af38ba8dbb88c0

# ? Jan 23, 2017 12:00

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

I wonder how long until the many people who have suffered wrong doing by the LNP Centrelink extortion racket discover they can do this:
http://www.finance.gov.au/resource-management/discretionary-financial-assistance/cdda-scheme/information-for-applicants-cdda/

# ? Jan 23, 2017 12:22

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

DancingShade posted:

I wonder how long until the many people who have suffered wrong doing by the LNP Centrelink extortion racket discover they can do this:
http://www.finance.gov.au/resource-management/discretionary-financial-assistance/cdda-scheme/information-for-applicants-cdda/

Probably because it says

quote:

The CDDA Scheme is available to provide a remedy for all NCEs under the PGPA Act, with the exception of the Departments of Parliament.

but if you look at the printable version, it tells you which NCEs are liable, and DHS is listed there. However it all comes back to the complaint to the Ombudsman which is probably where you would apply for this anyway.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 12:34

Resident Idiot: May 11, 2007; Maxine13; Grimey Drawer

And it's a scheme to compensate for defective administration, which requires the relevant Minister (or delegate thereof) to agree the administration has been defective. This is not certain to be the case since his current position is that things are fine, nothing to see here.

The CDDA Scheme posted:

Who has the authority to make decisions?

The CDDA Scheme is an administrative, not a statutory (legislative) scheme. It has been established under the executive power of section 61 of the Constitution.

Portfolio Ministers have responsibility for decisions made under the CDDA Scheme. Ministers may also authorise departmental officers to make decisions."

# ? Jan 23, 2017 12:50

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

You think maybe he's been lazy and just rushed off a quick memo not to bother him about that poo poo and there's still hope someone in Centrelink could authorise it?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 13:17

do it on my face: Feb 6, 2005; °

And maybe Ricky really will come back one day

# ? Jan 23, 2017 13:47

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

do it on my face posted:

And maybe Ricky really will come back one day

Ricky was Never My Senator

Nvr 5get

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7u9hP4r1S8

# ? Jan 23, 2017 14:18

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/witnesses-testify-in-bob-day-hearing/news-story/0ebdb68b257bbce525af38ba8dbb88c0

Federal ICAC Now

# ? Jan 23, 2017 15:45

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

Trump's dumped the TPP. I can't wait for Turnbull's excuses for sticking with it.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:30

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Good opportunity to propose a better deal.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:36

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Here is your deal!

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/24/2017-01798/special-observances-national-day-of-patriotic-devotion-proc-9570

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:36

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What's the reason for Turnbull to be fighting the foi request for his official diary?
The Australian is only after the first day's record apparently.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:37

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

They fight them as a matter of course

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:45

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

National day of patriotic devotion. Never did subtle, did he.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:46

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:15

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

You Am I posted:

Trump's dumped the TPP. I can't wait for Turnbull's excuses for sticking with it.

Here you go:

your ABC posted:

Trans-Pacific Partnership: Malcolm Turnbull accuses Bill Shorten of populism amid 'dead deal' comments

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has accused Opposition Leader Bill Shorten of shallow populism and defended his pursuit of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).

Key points:

Turnbull taking Australia down a "frolic" by pursuing TPP, Shorten says
PM says Hawke and Keating would be ashamed of Shorten's stance
US President-elect Donald Trump has previously vowed to pull out of deal
Earlier in the day, Mr Shorten pronounced the TPP "dead in the water" and said the Coalition's campaign for the deal was "a waste of time".

Mr Shorten cited United States President-elect Donald Trump's strong opposition to the deal and said the Coalition's support for the TPP was "beyond him".

In return, Mr Turnbull said former Labor prime ministers Bob Hawke and Paul Keating would be ashamed of Mr Shorten's protectionist position on the TPP.

"The TPP is a very important element in continuing to build those open markets of trade in our regions," he said.

"I know protectionism is popular in some quarters � I have seen Bill Shorten out there trying to turn himself into a protectionist � but really, Hawke and Keating would be ashamed, absolutely ashamed of that type of populism."

Mr Turnbull raised the prospect of Mr Trump softening his stance on the TPP once inaugurated as US president.

"Historically, American presidents have campaigned against free trade deals � President Obama did, President Clinton did � but in office have generally supported them," he said.

Mr Turnbull said other nations still saw benefits in the TPP despite Mr Trump's opposition.

"There has been active consideration from the other countries in the TPP as to how the agreement can proceed without the US, or proceed pending the US making a decision," he said.

His comments came after the Government secured a deal with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to continue to pursue the troubled agreement and pursue defence ties.

Trade Minister Steve Ciobo has also claimed the TPP holds "significant benefits" for nations other than the US.

"It is our earnest hope we will continue to see the ratification of the TPP by all 12 countries," he told a group of business leaders on Sunday.

Everyone goes WTF. But you can't expect a technocrat corporation-lover like Turnbull to do anything else, because it was never about the trade, but the corporate free ride the TPP represented. But Japan has already said the deal is useless without the US.

ewe2 fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jan 23, 2017

# ? Jan 23, 2017 23:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January 2017: relentless incoherence and incompetence.

«‹›44 »