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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Are you implying disenfranchisement is the voter's fault? Or that literal voter discrimination is the voter's fault? Im implying that if they genuinely are pissed off, but sit at home instead of voting, then they are part of the problem.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:02
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Except popular vote doesn't even matter in this loving country apparently
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Jan 22, 2017 21:10
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veni veni veni posted:Except popular vote doesn't even matter in this loving country apparently "apparently". Did you even cover the american electoral process in school? This wasn't some surprise, everyone knows the electoral college exists and is the only thing that matters. The annoying thing is if situations would have been reversed and the trumpsters were the ones calling for the dissolution of the electoral college, CNN and all the woke people would be calling them undemocratic traitors.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:12
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I conclude Jastiger hates the South 'cause that's where all the black folks at. This is supported by Iowa being Jastiger's favorite state and weighing in with a black population of a whopping 3%. It's me, I crack thread!
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Jan 22, 2017 21:13
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yeah I eat rear end posted:"apparently". Did you even cover the american electoral process in school? This wasn't some surprise, everyone knows the electoral college exists and is the only thing that matters. I dunno if this is true. The American left have been calling for the dissolution of the electoral college at least since Bush v Gore. Not seriously, or effectively, but it's not a thing that just came up now.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:19
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yeah I eat rear end posted:"apparently". Did you even cover the american electoral process in school? This wasn't some surprise, everyone knows the electoral college exists and is the only thing that matters. The problem is that one party has consistently been winning elections with LESS votes. Its one thing to be salty about your state going a certain way, its another to actively have the will of the people consistently circumvented because those in power are incentivized against abolishing an archaic system.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:29
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doverhog posted:I dunno if this is true. The American left have been calling for the dissolution of the electoral college at least since Bush v Gore. Not seriously, or effectively, but it's not a thing that just came up now. My point is they only call for it when it doesn't work for them. In an alternate reality where Trump won the popular vote buy Clinton won by the EC, the forums would be flooded with "this is how our government works, the popular vote doesn't mean anything" posts.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:29
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Das Boo posted:I conclude Jastiger hates the South 'cause that's where all the black folks at. This is supported by Iowa being Jastiger's favorite state and weighing in with a black population of a whopping 3%. Ive consistently said everything good about the South is coopted from minorities there. The only good thing white Southerners have given us is maybe Bourbon. Everything else is either natural beauty or thought up by black folk.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:31
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Jastiger posted:Ive consistently said everything good about the South is coopted from minorities there. The only good thing white Southerners have given us is maybe Bourbon. Everything else is either natural beauty or thought up by black folk. Isn't this the same thing as treating women as non-humans by elevating them to an inhuman status, tho? Hell, might approaching that magical black dude trope there!
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Jan 22, 2017 21:47
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The south gave us pecan pie.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:06
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Solice Kirsk posted:The south gave us pecan pie. Also Southern biscuits, though I admittedly don't know who invented them.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:08
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Solice Kirsk posted:The south gave us pecan pie. Yeah Mexicans sure know how to cook 
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Jan 22, 2017 22:12
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Jastiger posted:The problem is that one party has consistently been winning elections with LESS votes. Its one thing to be salty about your state going a certain way, its another to actively have the will of the people consistently circumvented because those in power are incentivized against abolishing an archaic system. America isn't really a single country anyway, it's a super-tight-knit EU, and our civil war was essentially over a brexit (with a whole crapton of the reasoning tied around slavery, sure, but you didn't see the states doing anything about slavery anywhere in the world after it was over). The EC isn't some arcane set of rules, it's each of our 50 countries voting on what is essentially the overall PM. You don't personally vote on just about anything beyond your personal country's (aka state's) jurisdiction. Jastiger posted:The marchers are right, but if you dont vote on it when you can, then you're useless. They're right about what, exactly? I'm not being sarcastic, exactly which vote-able policies was the protest about? vvv: Two of those can be handled at the state level, and the third isn't exactly something that can be voted on OR is already in the news for helping out with free birth control recently http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2017/01/oregon_lawmakers_introduce_bil.html#incart_river_index Sentient Data has a new favorite as of 22:39 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 22:26
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Particularly Planned Parenthood, cultural acceptance of misogyny, and education standards.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:34
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Being actually real is not a requirement for a good spouse, lover, or good friend.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:58
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Blue Star posted:Being actually real is not a requirement for a good spouse, lover, or good friend. I'd say having sex with a real person is better than having sex with a pretend person.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:05
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'd say having sex with a real person is better than having sex with a pretend person. Bad wanker spotted 
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Jan 22, 2017 23:06
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yeah I eat rear end posted:"apparently". Did you even cover the american electoral process in school? This wasn't some surprise, everyone knows the electoral college exists and is the only thing that matters. Yeah, like, uh, did the USA only just notice the wonkiness in its electoral system or are they just suddenly surprised it worked against their apparent desire for change.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:38
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poptart_fairy posted:Yeah, like, uh, did the USA only just notice the wonkiness in its electoral system or are they just suddenly surprised it worked against their apparent desire for change. if it is broken in my favor it is not broken. if it is broken and not in my favor, i'm going to scream until some eardrums start exploding
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Jan 22, 2017 23:43
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poptart_fairy posted:Yeah, like, uh, did the USA only just notice the wonkiness in its electoral system or are they just suddenly surprised it worked against their apparent desire for change. The popular vote and electoral college usually matches up though. AFAIK it's only different with Dubya and Drumpf.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:36
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Mu Zeta posted:The popular vote and electoral college usually matches up though. AFAIK it's only different with Dubya and Drumpf.
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Jan 23, 2017 02:05
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Mu Zeta posted:The popular vote and electoral college usually matches up though. AFAIK it's only different with Dubya and Drumpf. It also happened with Presidents Harrison and Hayes, though that was ages ago.
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Jan 23, 2017 02:33
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Tiggum posted:If it always matched, there would be no point having it. That's the thing that annoys me about people complaining about the electoral college - whether you're for it or against it, occasionally delivering results that differ from the popular vote is the whole point. It's not a mistake or a flaw in the system, it's exactly what's supposed to happen. People didn't complain that much because it usually matched up. It's just one of those weird quirks in the system that doesn't do any damage so no need to complain about it. But look at the disparity in popularity in the votes now and it makes sense that people start to get pissed about it. What's the alternative? Just stay quiet and shut up? Why should people have to accept the system is working as intended? It's not an occasional abberation. IT's happened like 2 or 3 times in US history. Mu Zeta has a new favorite as of 02:37 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 02:35
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Mu Zeta posted:People didn't complain that much because it usually matched up. It's just one of those weird quirks in the system that doesn't do any damage so no need to complain about it. But look at the disparity in popularity in the votes now and it makes sense that people start to get pissed about it. What's the alternative? Just stay quiet and shut up? Why should people have to accept the system is working as intended? You can argue that a different system would be better, but making the argument that the electoral college is bad because it sometimes produces results that differ from the popular vote is a very dumb argument because that's the whole point of it. If you put ice cream in the microwave and it melts, you can say "I don't like melted ice cream", but you don't say "the microwave is broken because it melted this ice cream". The microwave is working perfectly. If it didn't heat things there'd be no point in having it. To leave the analogy behind, if you want to argue that the electoral college is bad and should be scrapped then the argument you need to make is that the popular vote would consistently produce better results (however you define that) rather than just pointing out that the results would be different.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:30
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Tiggum posted:You can argue that a different system would be better, but making the argument that the electoral college is bad because it sometimes produces results that differ from the popular vote is a very dumb argument because that's the whole point of it. If you put ice cream in the microwave and it melts, you can say "I don't like melted ice cream", but you don't say "the microwave is broken because it melted this ice cream". The microwave is working perfectly. If it didn't heat things there'd be no point in having it. "Better" in any contest where someone makes a choice is generally the one that is ACTUALLY their choice vs any other out come. Anything that more accurately reflects the intended choice. The EC isn't dumb because it can diffuse votes, its dumb because of the way its enacted and gives more voting power to low density states.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:51
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Jastiger posted:The EC isn't dumb because it can diffuse votes, its dumb because of the way its enacted and gives more voting power to low density states. it should be california and new york deciding the elections you say?
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Jan 23, 2017 04:06
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You dont want to tip it too far in their direction. But as it is, its tipped the other way.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:09
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spit on my clit posted:it should be california and new york deciding the elections you say? It should be one person one vote
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Jan 23, 2017 04:19
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Jastiger posted:"Better" in any contest where someone makes a choice is generally the one that is ACTUALLY their choice vs any other out come. Anything that more accurately reflects the intended choice. Mu Zeta posted:It should be one person one vote
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Jan 23, 2017 04:24
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As I said in a different thread, the ec exists because america isn't really a single country in the first place, it's a super-tight-knit version of the eu. You don't vote in federal elections at all, you only vote within the jurisdiction of your own state. As far as the president goes, the state takes its citizens' votes into consideration, then casts its own actual votes for the federal president. Hell, the usa isn't even a democracy at all - it's a constitutional republic
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Jan 23, 2017 04:24
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I do not trust Californians to know what is going on outside of California.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:24
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Tiggum posted:You're both just saying "the way I prefer is better because I say it is" though. You haven't said why it's better. Its better because it actually reflects thr will of the voters better than the xjrrent system
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Jan 23, 2017 04:25
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Das Boo posted:I do not trust Californians to know what is going on outside of California. At least since a lot of people who live in California have come from other areas, they have a slight chance of knowing more about other regions than some guy whos never left his hick town in Wyoming.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:37
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Yeah, gently caress those hick towns and any issues they might feel are important
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Jan 23, 2017 04:40
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Sentient Data posted:Yeah, gently caress those hick towns and any issues they might feel are important no you see they dont matter because they don't live in a high density democrat area
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Jan 23, 2017 04:43
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Sentient Data posted:Hell, the usa isn't even a democracy at all - it's a constitutional republic  Jastiger posted:Its better because it actually reflects thr will of the voters better than the xjrrent system
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Jan 23, 2017 04:44
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Tiggum posted:
Wouldn't you agree that a mechanism that allows you to do X can be judged on how accurately it allows you to do X?
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Jan 23, 2017 04:45
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Californians loving up their poo poo rear end state and coming to mine are starting to drive up property values and piss off everyone who lives here and then they stand there with hurt looks on their dumb faces and wonder why everyone tells them to go to hell.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:46
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Sentient Data posted:Yeah, gently caress those hick towns and any issues they might feel are important Why are their issues worth up to 4x more than the issues in a high-density area?
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Jan 23, 2017 04:47
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Jastiger posted:Wouldn't you agree that a mechanism that allows you to do X can be judged on how accurately it allows you to do X? Sure. And the electoral college is designed to overrule the popular vote under certain circumstances, which is what it does. Your argument is this: 1: The president should be directly elected by popular vote. 2: The electoral college prevents this. C: The electoral college is bad. This is all fine as long as we accept the first premise, but I'm not everyone accepts that premise. If you want people who disagree with you to accept your conclusion then you first need to convince them of that first premise, which you have made no attempt to do.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:00
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