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What were people's levels when defeating (non-Twilight) Ogress? I think I was maybe level 11, with probably a garbage build since I didn't boost my Ki very much opting for HP, but could never achieve better than 50% on her. I always suck at DS/BB type games, and have seen enough challenge runs on Twitch to feel like everyone is just cruising through every fight at lvl 1 :/
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Jan 23, 2017 19:33
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Deified Data posted:Maybe it's Souls conditioning but I wasn't expecting a robust cast. This game is going to have a ton of cutscenes with lots and lots of dialog and exposition
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Jan 23, 2017 19:34
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Harrow posted:I really wish there was some testing data out there about the difference in damage reduction between light and medium armor. I'd been sticking with medium armor because I like how it looks and I like being mobile but also having some defense if I get hit, but that second part is just based on my assumption that the difference between light and medium armor's defense actually matters. If it doesn't, then screw it, I'll go for light armor and build Heart/Skill/probably Spirit instead of Heart/Strength/probably Spirit and enjoy having kusarigama with good scaling. Medium armor definitely makes a difference. However, light armor means you use WAY less stamina. You can combo for far longer in light armor than medium or heavy. That's the real clincher. Its not about rolling between light/heavy really.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:35
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Campbell posted:What were people's levels when defeating (non-Twilight) Ogress? I think I was maybe level 11, with probably a garbage build since I didn't boost my Ki very much opting for HP, but could never achieve better than 50% on her. I think I was like 15 when I beat her? The big trick with the Ogress is that you have to stay really, really close to her, because as long as you're basically hugging her, the only thing she can hit you with is her leap (which obviously has a huge telegraph). That's true of the twilight version as well, only you have to watch out for the occasional side-swipe--but if you're close to her and in front of her, you're still completely safe. Zaphod42 posted:Medium armor definitely makes a difference. However, light armor means you use WAY less stamina. You can combo for far longer in light armor than medium or heavy. That's the real clincher. Its not about rolling between light/heavy really. Ah, that would explain it. I wasn't paying attention to Ki usage, I was paying attention to mobility. Interesting. I'll probably end up with medium armor, then, if only because I never felt too Ki-starved (except maybe when fighting Muneshige) but I did get hit enough that whatever damage reduction I had probably saved my rear end a few times.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:35
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Campbell posted:What were people's levels when defeating (non-Twilight) Ogress? I think I was maybe level 11, with probably a garbage build since I didn't boost my Ki very much opting for HP, but could never achieve better than 50% on her. I think I was a bit higher, like 15-17 when I beat Ogress. She's definitely a fun fight, she has some moves that can really just wreck you, but like most people have posted in the thread if you learn to just get really close to her you only have to worry about the leap attack, which has a pretty obvious tell (jumps in the air) so you know when to dodge away. Beating her is all about learning where to be safe so you don't get the stuffing beat out of you.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:37
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Harrow posted:Ah, that would explain it. I wasn't paying attention to Ki usage, I was paying attention to mobility. Interesting. I'll probably end up with medium armor, then, if only because I never felt too Ki-starved (except maybe when fighting Muneshige) but I did get hit enough that whatever damage reduction I had probably saved my rear end a few times. Yeah medium armor does seem pretty important. In light armor, one good heavy sword swing or axe swing can completely kill you. Its nice being able to attack 5 times and only use a sliver of Ki though, but you just can't ever get hit. Course, since you're using far less Ki, you're able to dodge much more... but its still a very high risk / high reward playstyle. I'm probably going to challenge myself to play a ninja build; light armor, katana, kusarigama and lots of ninjitsu. But I may end up swapping to medium armor because yeah.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:40
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My biggest issue, and I had this issue in Bloodborne a lot too, is that I'm hugging the boss & locked on and she goes to jump and I try to dodge away. The camera goes nuts and half the time I roll into the jump zone. I'm guessing the answer to that is to just get good, but maybe that horizontal camera sensitivity tweak might've helped. I didn't get a chance to try that out.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:45
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Campbell posted:My biggest issue, and I had this issue in Bloodborne a lot too, is that I'm hugging the boss & locked on and she goes to jump and I try to dodge away. The camera goes nuts and half the time I roll into the jump zone. I'm guessing the answer to that is to just get good, but maybe that horizontal camera sensitivity tweak might've helped. I didn't get a chance to try that out. In souls games you have got to learn to play without lock-on. Playing through levels with human-sized enemies, you become very very dependent upon lockon, and you should. But in souls games against huge colossal bosses, lock-on is a crutch that will gently caress you up. You have to learn to break out of the shell and play without lock-on sometimes, using manual camera control. Its uncomfortable at first but like everything in these skill games, with some practice you'll get the hang of it. And with huge bosses its much easier to track them manually than it is with small opponents or multiple opponents. Enemies in souls games like Asylum Demon, Cleric Beast all the way to like, Nameless King, are always much better without using lock-on. Just try to force yourself to play without it for awhile, you'll see. Just don't lock on. If you're having trouble keeping up without lockon though, adjusting the camera sensitivity is the answer. In the past betas I found that it was way way too slow, although this beta it seemed fine by default. But maybe it used my save file or something?
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Jan 23, 2017 19:59
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah medium armor does seem pretty important. In light armor, one good heavy sword swing or axe swing can completely kill you. Its nice being able to attack 5 times and only use a sliver of Ki though, but you just can't ever get hit. Course, since you're using far less Ki, you're able to dodge much more... but its still a very high risk / high reward playstyle. The high risk of light armor is why I sadly won't be doing a katana/kusarigama build, I think. As much as I'd love to go heavy on Heart/Skill for that, I know I'm going to get owned over and over again if I don't have at least some protection from armor, so it's going to be Heart/Spirit with Body/Strength for armor. So I guess katanas with spears or axes as a backup (barring some great Raikiri-style weapons in other categories that scale well with Spirit). I'm really, really curious what abilities guardian spirits will have in the full game, because we only get to see what they offer up to 10-12 Spirit (depending on the individual spirit) in the demo and some of those abilities are already pretty great. The only way I won't be going for Spirit in my build is if what we saw was actually all/most of the abilities from the full game but they're just spread out more there, because that would be pretty underwhelming.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:05
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Zaphod42 posted:You're best off picking a few types to focus on rather than doing EVERYTHING though. You'll spread yourself too thin. Pick 2-3 weapons instead and find some common stats to build. I don't think that's going to be a problem with this game, I haven't really paid attention to stats since the alpha and just dump into the biggest numbers. Too many things are shared, and it's not like weapons don't have skills that map to the exact same combinations. Also I've never had a problem with lock on in any souls game, and used it for nearly every boss and enemy.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:17
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honestly you should be able to do well no matter what your stat allocations are. since gear has levels and everything even if you put all your points into say, Heart, you'd still be able to do decent damage to enemies if you decide to start swinging axes around.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:21
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Dedicated builds are good because it adds replayability. I won't even touch an axe on my first playthrough.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:00
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Likewise, I rarely get time to play a game more than once and I want to use all the weapons.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:01
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For those that will play through the game multiple times with different builds, what build do you plan to do your first playthrough with? I'm planning on doing a Ninjitsu-focused build with the Kusarigama, and maybe the dual-katanas if I can find ones that scale well with Dexterity.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:07
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I haven't played since the last demo so I don't remember the specifics of which stats correlates to what, but I'll probably focus on swords, spears, and Guardian Spirit buffs.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:11
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Gonna do a onmyou, guardian beast and lance build. I read something about how much ki you lose when hit depending on the armor weight so there's that.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:13
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I'm going to main one of the unrevealed weapons!
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Jan 23, 2017 21:14
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Absolutely something with the kusarigamas as they practically carried me through the demo. Onmyo seemed like it had some useful stuff but I didn't really mess with it so I don't know if it synergizes well.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:16
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Katana/spear with magic for me. So much utility and counters with those two weapons. I hope to see more human enemy density like in the beta. I honestly think fighting the human enemies is more fun than yokai with all the moves you can put on them.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:29
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Campbell posted:My biggest issue, and I had this issue in Bloodborne a lot too, is that I'm hugging the boss & locked on and she goes to jump and I try to dodge away. The camera goes nuts and half the time I roll into the jump zone. I'm guessing the answer to that is to just get good, but maybe that horizontal camera sensitivity tweak might've helped. I didn't get a chance to try that out. Why not just i-frame the actual hit and not try to distance yourself. You'll dodge the damage better, be closer to go back to attacking quicker, usually end up behind the boss to do double damage from the back as well as increased ki damage, and look cool doing it. This game awards aggressiveness far more than it rewards passivity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmNVGAClB4&t=117s Belzac fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 21:44
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Genocyber posted:For those that will play through the game multiple times with different builds, what build do you plan to do your first playthrough with? First time will be katanas and guardian spirit stuff (assuming the higher-level spirit abilities are worth heavy investment in the Spirit stat). So Heart + Spirit, with enough Body and Strength for medium armor. I'll probably also use a lot of weapon types situationally--scaling seems important, but not as important as the weapon's level, unless things go nuts at high levels--but katanas will be the mainstay I think. If it turns out that medium armor isn't worth the decreased Ki regeneration compared to light armor, I'll go Body + Skill for armor instead and do a little better with kusarigama as a bonus. I hope Raikiri is available early in the full game, that katana owns hard for a Heart + Spirit build. Harrow fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 21:46
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2 kats first playthrough 
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Jan 23, 2017 21:53
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Does equip load determine how much Ki damage you take when you get hit? Poking around for armor information, I saw someone mention that if you're at very light equip load, your Ki just disappears if you get hit, but heavy armor means you take much less Ki damage on hit. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if armor is less for avoiding Life damage on hit and more for avoiding Ki damage on hit. Light armor, you can dodge and attack forever with your quickly-regenerating Ki, but getting hit destroys your flow; heavy armor, you have to be slower and more methodical, but you can recover much more easily if you do get hit.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:56
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lets hang out posted:2 kats first playthrough What is the difference between this and single katana in terms of playstyle?
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Jan 23, 2017 21:57
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It does when blocking so it probably also applies on hits
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Jan 23, 2017 21:57
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:What is the difference between this and single katana in terms of playstyle? Dual and single are pretty similar in terms of moveset, but dual are more offense oriented while single is more defense oriented. You have much higher DPS potential with dual but you need to commit and do a lot of attacks to get that, whereas single has less overall DPS but if you can only find the time to attack once or twice it will have superior damage.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:58
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Belzac posted:Why not just i-frame the actual hit and not try to distance yourself. You'll dodge the damage better, be closer to go back to attacking quicker, usually end up behind the boss to do double damage from the back as well as increased ki damage, and look cool doing it. This game awards aggressiveness far more than it rewards passivity. Good point - so basically a roll once she hits her apex? I've never really gotten a consistent feel for duration of iframes in these types of games :/
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Jan 23, 2017 22:00
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:What is the difference between this and single katana in terms of playstyle? 2kat has a lot of really fast flurry attacks. lets hang out posted:It does when blocking so it probably also applies on hits Ah, that makes sense. Now I'm really curious if medium armor is actually worthwhile, or if it's the "worst of both worlds" middle ground where its Life/Ki damage reduction (and Ki-on-block reduction) isn't worth the Ki regeneration reduction and you're better off just committing to light or heavy. I'm not saying that's the case or anything, but if this were a Souls game I'd probably expect it to be. Of course, this isn't, so who knows.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:00
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Campbell posted:Good point - so basically a roll once she hits her apex? I've never really gotten a consistent feel for duration of iframes in these types of games :/ You just roll right before she hits you. I do it based on sound so it's right before the whooshing sound becomes a thudding sound.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:03
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:What is the difference between this and single katana in terms of playstyle? Mostly 2 kats can do cooler anime poo poo and uh well they're faster but weaker like you'd expect, they don't have as many defensive options like parries, and they have some really fast multi-hit attacks that can mulch people but for some reason aren't as good at applying status effects as slower weapons.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:04
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Campbell posted:Good point - so basically a roll once she hits her apex? I've never really gotten a consistent feel for duration of iframes in these types of games :/ I've seen people say that iframes come at the very beginning of dodges in this game instead of closer to the middle like in souls, so if that's true you should wait until the last possible second.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:06
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Also it seems like the skills that tie Dodge to Ki Pulse are pretty mandatory - for some reason I interpreted those skills as basically adding a key press into that chain (like attack, attack, ki-pulse, dodge) instead of (attack, attack, dodge=ki-pulse). That way you get rid of an extraneous button for something you're doing anyway. ^^ Yea, waiting on the sound is probably a better tactic - and playing on the best FPS mode possible - it's possible movie mode I was playing on was putting me off.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:08
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The skill descriptions range from unclear to completely wrong. This demo is a few months old so hopefully they've given them all another pass.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:11
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Belzac posted:Why not just i-frame the actual hit and not try to distance yourself because monster hunter and dark souls have way more iframes than this game 
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Jan 23, 2017 22:12
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The Ogress changes direction in midair, so being on the move or trying to gauge a particular direction doesn't matter. Just chill out and roll forward when she's on the way down.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:20
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Campbell posted:Also it seems like the skills that tie Dodge to Ki Pulse are pretty mandatory - for some reason I interpreted those skills as basically adding a key press into that chain (like attack, attack, ki-pulse, dodge) instead of (attack, attack, dodge=ki-pulse). That way you get rid of an extraneous button for something you're doing anyway. This seemed to make high stance just that much better than everything else. Just doing a single strong attack with high stance then dodging away from the larger monsters seemed to work really well. Single swords just seemed the easiest compared to everything else. They have a fast animation, better range that I was expecting and solid damage. I played around with spears a little bit they seem fun, trading some damage for extra range. I really want to see what kinda of combos you can pull of with the spear. I cleared the first mission at level 11 with an axe, it destroyed trash mobs using high stance and did a pretty good job on the boss. The second boss's speed punished the slow swing speed of the axe and it gave me some trouble till I switched weapons.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:31
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Calidus posted:This seemed to make high stance just that much better than everything else. Just doing a single strong attack with high stance then dodging away from the larger monsters seemed to work really well. Spears seem to have the versatility in range and utility, but without the combo potential and aoe of kusarigama or the speed and damage of a single katana. They are awesome for controlling the fight.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:48
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Keep in mind the skills were very limited in the demos. Maybe there are skills in the full game that will change your mind about which weapon you want to use.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:50
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Emalde posted:because monster hunter and dark souls have way more iframes than this game  Or play in low stance.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:03
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Harrow posted:I hope Raikiri is available early in the full game, that katana owns hard for a Heart + Spirit build. Probably fairly early, unless the levels are adjusted in the final game. I bet there will be an appropriate +Spirit weapon for most if not all of the guardians.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:03
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