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Real quick. getting out of nafta + dodging TPP is good right? I feel uneasy agreeing with something trump is saying he's going to do.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:46
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It's good in the sense that China will take our place as the center of the world economy in a decade or so
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Jan 23, 2017 20:49
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Fiction posted:It's good in the sense that China will take our place as the center of the world economy in a decade or so oh cool so then MTWs will finally support socialism in the usa. neat
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Jan 23, 2017 20:51
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it all comes back to JDPON
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Jan 23, 2017 21:21
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Ruzihm posted:Real quick. getting out of nafta + dodging TPP is good right? I feel uneasy agreeing with something trump is saying he's going to do. It's cool but killing unions at the same time for sure means this isn't being done to help US workers but rather just feeding into Trump's nationalism boner without really understanding why Americans wanted it. The problem with stuff being made in Mexico or China isn't that we want American workers to be exploited in sweatshops instead, it's that it means companies can avoid advancements in workers rights in the US by moving somewhere else.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:33
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DrProsek posted:It's cool but killing unions at the same time for sure means this isn't being done to help US workers but rather just feeding into Trump's nationalism boner without really understanding why Americans wanted it. The problem with stuff being made in Mexico or China isn't that we want American workers to be exploited in sweatshops instead, it's that it means companies can avoid advancements in workers rights in the US by moving somewhere else. Are you referring to the usual union neutering that has been going on for decades now or has Trump already sneaked something in to mess with unions?
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Jan 23, 2017 21:45
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Ruzihm posted:Real quick. getting out of nafta + dodging TPP is good right? I feel uneasy agreeing with something trump is saying he's going to do. it harms the free expansion of capital across the globe so it is good. this does not mean there are no downsides.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:53
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Ruzihm posted:Are you referring to the usual union neutering that has been going on for decades now or has Trump already sneaked something in to mess with unions? The usual, plus a labor sec that isn't really trying to hide being an anti-worker crusader.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:02
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jarofpiss posted:orgs that prohibit members from democratic centralist groups are just doing it to keep commies out without using the word communist. i always read it as a 'ffs trots' thing
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Jan 23, 2017 22:03
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DrProsek posted:The usual, plus a labor sec that isn't really trying to hide being an anti-worker crusader. Ok, that's what I figured. Thanks. And yeah that guy is a piece of poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:08
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Prav posted:imagine this: the guy who won't agree is fishmech. Yes but eventually, like the traveler who visited the fishermen with the cultural norm of never refusing a request for help and asked for the best of their catch each time, murder is a solution.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:40
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Fiction posted:It's good in the sense that China will take our place as the center of the world economy in a decade or so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKIo10C8HME
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Jan 23, 2017 22:45
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this is the long term plan if everything shakes out as catastrophically as it seems lol they need that young workforce from somewhere!!
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Jan 23, 2017 23:18
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Fiction posted:this is the long term plan if everything shakes out as catastrophically as it seems lol https://twitter.com/almyrOH/status/823590051778961408 
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Jan 23, 2017 23:56
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I take it he's referring to this? 
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Jan 24, 2017 00:10
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Fiction posted:It's good in the sense that China will take our place as the center of the world economy in a decade or so the usa has never been the center of the world anything despite what it loves to think
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Jan 24, 2017 00:22
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Yinlock posted:the usa has never been the center of the world anything despite what it loves to think says the canadian
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Jan 24, 2017 00:25
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jarofpiss posted:it harms the free expansion of capital across the globe so it is good. this does not mean there are no downsides. Marx supported capitalist expansion to facilitate the conditions for international revolution lol Granted, that was before the global markets were saturated as they are now. I don't really think it's our priority to have an ardent position on free trade vs. protectionism though. Both are capitalism hence both are bad
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Jan 24, 2017 00:28
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jarofpiss posted:says the canadian Don't worry the Donald will annex them soon enough. 
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Jan 24, 2017 00:30
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Yinlock posted:the usa has never been the center of the world anything despite what it loves to think As much as I have an undying hate for yankees, the US was uncontested as an Imperial Power from 1990 to 2006.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:32
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Plutonis posted:As much as I have an undying hate for yankees, the US was uncontested as an Imperial Power from 1990 to 2006. thank you
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Jan 24, 2017 00:34
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what happened in 2006
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Jan 24, 2017 00:42
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Plutonis posted:As much as I have an undying hate for yankees, the US was uncontested as an Imperial Power from 1990 to 2006. this is true but it's still not the center of the entire universe
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Jan 24, 2017 00:44
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Yinlock posted:this is true but it's still not the center of the entire universe neil degrasse tyson said otherwise on that podcast of his
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Jan 24, 2017 00:46
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it's not a lie if some neolib hack says it, obviously
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Jan 24, 2017 00:49
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Yinlock posted:this is true but it's still not the center of the entire universe It did assfuck the rest of the world with their stupid housing crisis in 2008!
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Jan 24, 2017 00:51
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Fiction posted:this is the long term plan if everything shakes out as catastrophically as it seems lol i'm literally doing it, sooo
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Jan 24, 2017 00:52
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R. Guyovich posted:i'm literally doing it, sooo
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Jan 24, 2017 01:35
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GL in China, HE. Hope Trump doesn't bomb Beijing.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:53
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im brother hao irl
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Jan 24, 2017 03:00
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Plutonis posted:It did assfuck the rest of the world with their stupid housing crisis in 2008! that's true the usa is less "the center of all the worlds" and more "the eye of sauron everyone preys doesn't look their way"
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Jan 24, 2017 03:01
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DrProsek posted:It's cool but killing unions at the same time for sure means this isn't being done to help US workers but rather just feeding into Trump's nationalism boner without really understanding why Americans wanted it. The problem with stuff being made in Mexico or China isn't that we want American workers to be exploited in sweatshops instead, it's that it means companies can avoid advancements in workers rights in the US by moving somewhere else. The problem with the way Trump is handling things is that ending NAFTA and TPP is going to let China vastly increase their international economic presence. It's going to gently caress over all the people he thinks he's helping when we can't export poo poo, especially the next time our economy crashes and we won't have exports to rely on next time to hold us over while the economy recovers.
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Jan 24, 2017 03:11
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IMO they're not going to get rid of NAFTA, and we're gonna get TPP - but they'll call it some kind of Luntzian buzzword. Anything but a trade pact. Trump's going to pass anything the Republican congress puts in front of him because he doesn't read. All they have to do is avoid his trigger words.
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Jan 24, 2017 03:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:IMO they're not going to get rid of NAFTA, and we're gonna get TPP - but they'll call it some kind of Luntzian buzzword. Anything but a trade pact. all proposals will follow this type of format https://youtu.be/j-xxis7hDOE
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Jan 24, 2017 04:00
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That skit went a couple minutes too long imo.
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Jan 24, 2017 04:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:That skit went a couple minutes too long imo. this is true of basically every television sketch in history
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Jan 24, 2017 04:06
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The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of overly long jokes
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Jan 24, 2017 04:12
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tadashi posted:The problem with the way Trump is handling things is that ending NAFTA and TPP is going to let China vastly increase their international economic presence. It's going to gently caress over all the people he thinks he's helping when we can't export poo poo, especially the next time our economy crashes and we won't have exports to rely on next time to hold us over while the economy recovers. This is true. My best guess is Trump/his people are just so stuck on post-WWII thinking they believe America being the center of the global economy/political world is just a given as long as America basically exists and has its army deployed outside its borders at all times, not really realizing that the only things that keep the USA's influence going is its economic power (which will be incredibly muted if it tries to become a manufacturing giant via protectionism) and its ability to sell military protection as a service (which doesn't work if there's no great "Other" like Russia or terrorism to protect against). Pener Kropoopkin posted:IMO they're not going to get rid of NAFTA, and we're gonna get TPP - but they'll call it some kind of Luntzian buzzword. Anything but a trade pact. I could see this happening, but I just wonder what would his reelection campaign look like then; "Your job is still in Mexico/China, the wall became a fence that we paid for, and I'm pretty sure half of my voters died after I repealed Obamacare and replaced it with a free pair of bootstraps. Trump 2020"?
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Jan 24, 2017 04:44
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DrProsek posted:I could see this happening, but I just wonder what would his reelection campaign look like then; "Your job is still in Mexico/China, the wall became a fence that we paid for, and I'm pretty sure half of my voters died after I repealed Obamacare and replaced it with a free pair of bootstraps. Trump 2020"? Well, the alternative on Trump's current vector is that he's going to prevent capital flight by incentivizing through labor renegotiation, and tax breaks. So he'll have to run against "Mr. Trump made your jobs worse, and the government has no money - which means it taxes you more!" Plus he's not really preventing capital flight anyway.
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Jan 24, 2017 04:52
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DrProsek posted:This is true. My best guess is Trump/his people are just so stuck on post-WWII thinking they believe America being the center of the global economy/political world is just a given as long as America basically exists and has its army deployed outside its borders at all times, not really realizing that the only things that keep the USA's influence going is its economic power (which will be incredibly muted if it tries to become a manufacturing giant via protectionism) and its ability to sell military protection as a service (which doesn't work if there's no great "Other" like Russia or terrorism to protect against). He'll declare war on the West Coast and kill the 3-5 million people who helped Hillary win the popular vote 
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Jan 24, 2017 06:37
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