Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER
"Man, you're just gonna settle for 'petting'? :grin:"
-overheard's buddy

EDIT: You know, I'm wondering- just how prevalent is xenophilia among the races and if so, how is it expressed? I"m not just talking about our Captain Kirks and their alien equivalents, but xenophile subcultures ranging from alien weeaboo-types, to those who see points of similarity and commonality between different races (I can certainly see the Meklar being less alien than humans to the Klackons, and the humans being culturally more palatable to Mrrshan than the Bulrathi, for example).

CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jan 20, 2017

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Stormgear
Feb 12, 2014

CommissarMega posted:

"Man, you're just gonna settle for 'petting'? :grin:"
-overheard's buddy

EDIT: You know, I'm wondering- just how prevalent is xenophilia among the races and if so, how is it expressed? I"m not just talking about our Captain Kirks and their alien equivalents, but xenophile subcultures ranging from alien weeaboo-types, to those who see points of similarity and commonality between different races (I can certainly see the Meklar being less alien than humans to the Klackons, and the humans being culturally more palatable to Mrrshan than the Bulrathi, for example).

At the intersection of furries, trekkies and otherkin are... The Xenoboos.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
So somebody asked about the Orion Confederation... we actually have heard of the Orion Confederation before- we translated the name from those portions of the data archives still intact of an ancient research station in our space. Evidence so far is relatively sparse, but the Orion Confederation appeared to be an ancient polity that stretched across the galactic region at least ten to twenty thousand years ago. The cause of its decline is not fully known, but some of the Orion Confederation ruins we have discovered show evidence of heavy orbital bombardment and rapid depopulation. Why the Orions evacuated Eson, the Psilon homeworld, is likewise still mysterious. It seems fairly clear that the Meklar 'Precursors' were not Orions, but a younger civilisation slightly ahead of the curve for the current crop of galactic civilisations.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
Vis-a-vis xenophilia in alien species...

Well, first off, the only species we've met that's met any species other than Humans or their immediate neighbor in their quadrant are the Meklars and Psilons, who have each met each other. There's not a lot of xenophilia on either side of the line of Meklars and Darloks and Mrrshan and Klackons, for what should be reasonably obvious reasons. The Meklars have been reasonably enthusiastic about new friends at a cultural level, and a number of fads and memes from Human and Psilon space 'make the jump' to the Meklar networks- including, notably, cute cat videos. For some freaking reason.

The Psilons are more measured in their reaction, but they have still tended to regard Humanity as potential friends from whom much can be learned. Some Psilons find Humanity of academic interest- and they tend to regard the Meklars as absolutely fascinating, given their highly unusual nature as a sapient species. There are certain established cultural ties between the Psilons and Alkari, regardless of any Psilon impatience about the 'silliness' of Alkari belief systems.

The Mrrshan, on an on-the-street level, have mixed anxiety and warmth about Humanity. The Mrrshan are aware of the precarious situation of their polity, and if Humanity turns out to be an enemy, they fear the ultimate results. That said, there is a perception of Humanity being honorable in its own right, and a respect for Human dedication to justice. What the Mrrshan have heard about the Bulrathi Empire has not endeared the Empire to the Mrrshan, as a rule.

The Klackon don't really 'like' any species outside the hive in the same way other species might, and there's not much variation of opinion. That said, they think Humanity might be useful to cooperate with, and don't necessarily 'dislike' Humanity either.

Nobody has any real clue about xenophilia in Darloks, given how mysterious their society remains.

Bulrathi society is torn between pro-Human and anti-Human sentiments, with some of the Bulrathi in occupied territory beginning to assimilate into Human culture. In what remains of the Empire, fear of the Human is frequently, given ongoing Imperial propaganda.

Stormgear
Feb 12, 2014

nweismuller posted:

including, notably, cute cat videos. For some freaking reason.

The reason is that the cuteness of cats is universal. They are the true galactic overlords. Behold how they have made members of the great Republic bend to their every whim! Their every adorable, kitty-cat whim.

The Mrrshan's suspicion of our behavior is reasonable. They're only right to be wary of a new and powerful neighbour that might capitalize upon their presently compromized defenses. Conversely, trade from the republic (and possibly more direct measures) might make them see us as powerful friends and stalwart allies instead.

Speaking of galactic relations, is there a particular malus invoked when completely wiping out an extant civilization (as we're poised to do with the Bulrathi)? I know it's a pain in the Civ games where you eradicate someone like, say, Attila the Hun, and suddenly everyone in the world hates your guts.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

Stormgear posted:

Speaking of galactic relations, is there a particular malus invoked when completely wiping out an extant civilization (as we're poised to do with the Bulrathi)? I know it's a pain in the Civ games where you eradicate someone like, say, Attila the Hun, and suddenly everyone in the world hates your guts.

I don't think so- MoO2 didn't have such a penalty- but I haven't seen what happens in nuMoO yet.

thsgrn
May 6, 2007
How do the Mrrshan feel about cute cat videos?

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

thsgrn posted:

How do the Mrrshan feel about cute cat videos?

The Mrrshan have non-sapient relatives, like Humans do with other primates, and have actually domesticated some of their smaller non-sapient relatives, so they're actually familiar with the concept of housecats, although their domesticated companion relatives are usually working hunters rather than pure companion animals. So cute cat videos aren't too strange to them. Most of the larger relative species to Mrrshan got outcompeted in their niche by the Mrrshan themselves, so larger cats aren't much found in the Mrrshan area of historical evolution.

nweismuller fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jan 22, 2017

rastilin
Nov 6, 2010
I've got to say that reading about Bulrathi War 2 hurt especially hard, mostly because it was so crushingly predictable how everything would turn out. I'll avoid controversy and not discuss recent history, but there's a good quote regarding Jimmy Carter that constantly springs to mind where he's described as having "the worst possible combination of naivete and cynicism".

My foreign relations vote is therefore as follows.
Don't get involved in any conflicts until the Bulrathi conflict is settled, no matter what happens. - Multi front wars can easily spiral out of control, so we have to restrict ourselves to only one war at a time. This doesn't mean that we take everything lying down, but that we table our responses until resources are freed from our current conflict.
Don't trade away technology or other permanent advantages for temporary deals - Don't trade away permanent things for deals that could be broken by outside circumstances.
Avoid giving anyone permission to move through our territory - I'm not sure if this is going to be an issue, but if it prevents our weaknesses from being scouted or from a colony being established behind our territory (assuming we have anywhere left to colonize to our west) then it might be worth doing despite the trade losses.
Establish close relations with the Psilons - They seem to be fairly pacifist and internally focused, which means they'll probably be happy to share the galaxy with us in the long term.
Try to figure out how expansionist the other races are - The Meklar seem internally focused, while the Mrrshan society's focus on combat might suggest Bulrathi War 3 is on it's way. If the Klackons are anything like Terran bugs, they would be incredibly expansionist and we should work to determine if this is the case.
Make peace with the Darloks but accept that we'll probably have to destroy them - There's nothing wrong with mysterious, but they've already destroyed several ships and cannot seem to be able to communicate honestly. If they can't stop themselves from causing further incidences, then it's pointless to pacify them in the long term, as they will continue to provoke us until either we or they are destroyed.
Don't side with any race against any other race - We don't know enough about the situation yet to make these choices, and stretching ourselves will only open up weaknesses that can be exploited later. This should be a policy above and beyond the Bulrathi war. Ganging up two on one against a race is not a terrible plan, but we shouldn't do this just yet.

Also, it's probably worth investigating if the Klackons have taken any planets from the Mrrshan and checking if they take prisoners from the planets they capture or not. Knowing one way or the other will probably make it much easier to choose in the long run.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

nweismuller posted:

I don't think so- MoO2 didn't have such a penalty- but I haven't seen what happens in nuMoO yet.

The original MOO did have that penalty, so we'll see I guess.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

ulmont posted:

The original MOO did have that penalty, so we'll see I guess.

In the original MoO, the way things worked, taking out another race was literal genocide, so. (Ground invasions were resolved with the slaughter of every man, woman, child, and adorable kitty on the surface in MoO1.)

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

rastilin posted:

I've got to say that reading about Bulrathi War 2 hurt especially hard, mostly because it was so crushingly predictable how everything would turn out. I'll avoid controversy and not discuss recent history, but there's a good quote regarding Jimmy Carter that constantly springs to mind where he's described as having "the worst possible combination of naivete and cynicism".

I can see our naivete in this context, but I don't see the analogue to the cynicism as described. (That said, the naivete's consequences were painful enough.)

rastilin
Nov 6, 2010

nweismuller posted:

I can see our naivete in this context, but I don't see the analogue to the cynicism as described. (That said, the naivete's consequences were painful enough.)

I admit that I just really like the quote, but there are two main points where cynicism became a problem.

1. When people first started lobbying to push back the Bulrathi instead of going for a white peace, they were cynically dismissed as being racist warmongers instead of having their reasoning explored. Additionally most people implicitly assumed both that the Bulrathi were similar enough that their goals and methods could be guessed at, but also dumber than the humans to the point where we assumed they weren't going to just declare peace solely to rearm against an opponent they found they couldn't steamroll as easily as expected. Or bluntly, we were racist against the Bulrathi by dismissing them (as well as their culture) to the point where we didn't sufficiently analyze their strategy.

2. Bulrathi attacks were cynically accepted as being part of "realpolitik" and just the price of running an empire, but then these thoughts were not explored to their logical conclusion. That is, if they're willing to fight a war to expand their empire, what else are they willing to do and how far would they take it?

Ultimately we picked the worst possible things to be cynical and naive about respectively. If we'd been naive about their original intentions and then cynical about their peace offer (or their commitment to it), then things would have gone differently.

I've heard that Fidel Castro's profile as written up by the CIA is an especially entertaining read that would probably be very similar to profiles on the Bulrathi after the first war. That is, filled with assumptions, guesswork and very shaky logic not backed up by research.

I'm not sure if I've explained my thinking correctly, please ask if there's anything in my logic that seems off.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I was quite intentionally being a hate filled warmonger who wanted to ensure Homo Sapiens supremacy over the galaxy in my hawk post, and people who saw it as that were absolutely correct. My "spreading civilization" speech would have been the same, just with justifications slightly different, had the Bulrathi been nicer. Ultimately, this is a 4X game that is designed around victory goals unlike real life, "governments" are designed to play towards reaching them. The explanation of its behavior beyond that is a mix of Nweiss' and our storytelling. There's a lot we can project into this, especially since the stuff that would normally be a major factor in decisionmaking process is also up to our imagination. With just a small nudge in storytelling, you can have my party being warhawks who lead the Republic into the second war, and the revolt on Earth being a mix of Bulrathi propagandists arrested as "spies" and Earth pacifists not wanting to be complicit in deaths of millions, which ends up being our Reichstag fire. Obviously, this is not the case in Nweismuller's storyline for humanity - but you still shouldn't use it to analyze our decisonmaking process.

Absolutely correct, senator rastilin. Which is why we need a first strike policy against threats like the Darlok.

my dad fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jan 23, 2017

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
If you'll excuse me being extremely cold-blooded about things... I still believe the decision to make peace with the Bulrathi Empire when the Republic did was strategically correct, even aside from any hopes about restoration of a lasting peace. The Human Republic's military capacity at the time of the First Bulrathi-Human War was extremely limited, and our technical advantages in shipbuilding and arms were frankly iffy at best. By accepting peace, we allowed the chance for us to cement our position and develop to a point that the next war could be on our terms. Granted that the way the Second Bulrathi-Human War erupted was tragic in the extreme, but I am certain that given our lackluster state of military readiness, we would have suffered other tragedies in an extended First Bulrathi-Human War, and the loss of blood and treasure would have retarded Human progress for decades or centuries to come. As things stand, the Human Republic actually enjoys a position as the single strongest interstellar power in the galaxy, now that we've seen how things have developed elsewhere. I am not certain that would have been the case had we fought the war to a conclusion the first time around.

On a moral level, accepting peace allowed for a restoration of peace and prosperity, and had the Empire actually been willing to commit to long-term mutually-profitable coexistence, would have been the only acceptable choice. We cannot read the future, but I believed that we needed the time to build up and let our society heal.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Also, sure, it let the Bulrathi re-arm.

But it also allowed HUMANITY to do the same. And advance in non-military areas creating the foundation for our current success.

It's a shame that the Bulrathi decided to try again to conquer humanity, it is a shame that we have to remove their government by force.

That does not mean that peace was the wrong option at the time. The Bulrathi were not destined to go to war with us again, that was a choice they made.

rastilin
Nov 6, 2010

quote:

If you'll excuse me being extremely cold-blooded about things... I still believe the decision to make peace with the Bulrathi Empire when the Republic did was strategically correct, even aside from any hopes about restoration of a lasting peace. The Human Republic's military capacity at the time of the First Bulrathi-Human War was extremely limited, and our technical advantages in shipbuilding and arms were frankly iffy at best. By accepting peace, we allowed the chance for us to cement our position and develop to a point that the next war could be on our terms. Granted that the way the Second Bulrathi-Human War erupted was tragic in the extreme, but I am certain that given our lackluster state of military readiness, we would have suffered other tragedies in an extended First Bulrathi-Human War, and the loss of blood and treasure would have retarded Human progress for decades or centuries to come. As things stand, the Human Republic actually enjoys a position as the single strongest interstellar power in the galaxy, now that we've seen how things have developed elsewhere. I am not certain that would have been the case had we fought the war to a conclusion the first time around.

Making peace was almost certainly the right move. Though it would have been nice if we could have grabbed a colony... or deployed our own colonies to limit Bulrathi territory expansion to ways that were strategically useful to us, but if we had no chance of either then white peace was the best we could hope for.

And I'm not sure what other people have been reading, but I'm not arguing that we need to wipe out all life from the galaxy in a campaign of conquest. In fact with good strategy we can avoid having to fight anyone else. (Is it still possible to get a non-conquest victory?)

quote:

That does not mean that peace was the wrong option at the time. The Bulrathi were not destined to go to war with us again, that was a choice they made.

True, but my argument was that it was only right at the outbreak of war that we were making progress in determining if their intentions were genuine.

quote:

On a moral level, accepting peace allowed for a restoration of peace and prosperity, and had the Empire actually been willing to commit to long-term mutually-profitable coexistence, would have been the only acceptable choice. We cannot read the future, but I believed that we needed the time to build up and let our society heal.

Agreed, however we should make efforts, especially in the future, to determining which of the other empires are willing to commit to long term mutually-profitable coexistence before signing any additional treaties.

quote:

Absolutely correct, senator rastilin. Which is why we need a first strike policy against threats like the Darlok.

Actually 4x games do play very much like real life, which is why I'm explicitly avoiding comparisons to recent history. Recent governments don't make decisions like this (usually), but history is filled with kingdoms ruled by individuals that did make moves like this and my point was about the dangers of making assumptions about our political opponents based on our own mindsets without proper research. You're right about how your story paragraph shouldn't be used to infer too much about the decision making progress, however I also mentioned the dangers of ideologically driven decision making (humans have to be rulers of the galaxy, humans have to be pacifists, etc..). Though if I were better at writing I would probably type it up into a letter of some kind.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

rastilin posted:

Making peace was almost certainly the right move. Though it would have been nice if we could have grabbed a colony... or deployed our own colonies to limit Bulrathi territory expansion to ways that were strategically useful to us, but if we had no chance of either then white peace was the best we could hope for.

For now, I'll just say that astrography made pretty clear 'natural borders' between Human and Bulrathi space, and it would have been hard for us to block them off on their side of the line. The string of Kif, Warikomi, and Pferd as systems that neither side could grab basically created a natural buffer. So, short of pushing the offensive to their territory, our borders were pretty much going to be as they were. That said, we had a pretty strong focus on grabbing the Rim so they couldn't, by claiming Etana and Paladiaus.

rastilin posted:

And I'm not sure what other people have been reading, but I'm not arguing that we need to wipe out all life from the galaxy in a campaign of conquest. In fact with good strategy we can avoid having to fight anyone else. (Is it still possible to get a non-conquest victory?)

There are three seperate non-conquest victories available to us, through economic, diplomatic, or technological means. I'm pretty much aiming to get one of those.

nweismuller fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jan 23, 2017

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

rastilin posted:

Actually 4x games do play very much like real life

You have an extremely simplified view of history that leaves you vulnerable to being manipulated by people fabricating excuses. Also, wrong, and prone to drawing the wrong conclusions.

Also, stop playing Paradox games if you are. They're toxic to people's ability to see history in ways that don't result in it being converted into a Paradox scenario.

rastilin
Nov 6, 2010

my dad posted:

You have an extremely simplified view of history that leaves you vulnerable to being manipulated by people fabricating excuses. Also, wrong, and prone to drawing the wrong conclusions.

Also, stop playing Paradox games if you are. They're toxic to people's ability to see history in ways that don't result in it being converted into a Paradox scenario.

Ok, how is my view of history really simplified? Your post is essentially a wordy version of "ur dmb".

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
I'd appreciate if people could try to be courteous. If the argument is causing high feelings, it might be best if everybody just stepped back and took a breath. I'm sorry to have to ask this, and hope people will take it in the spirit it is intended.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

rastilin posted:

Ok, how is my view of history really simplified? Your post is essentially a wordy version of "ur dmb".

My post was not a wordy version of "ur dmb".

For a decent start, go read the military history thread. While it turns to maximum tankchat from time to time, it does offer a surprisingly deep look into certain kinds of issues.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
Trivia: Humans and Bulrathi have five digits per hand. Psilons, Mrrshan, Klackons, and Darloks appear to have four digits per hand. The Meklar Overseer has four digits per hand, but whether that's standard across all Meklars is an open question.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


Is there even such a thing as a "standard" Meklar? It seems kinda like they'd take maximum advantage of their machine nature to adapt into a form best suited for whatever their environment demands - I'd expect that Meklar from a high gravity molten world probably look WAY different than their cousins on a low gravity ice world. Hell, even on the same planet a Meklar working a sugar farm probably looks way different from one that works in heavy industry.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
Yeah, I believe Meklars have high morphological variability. Thus why I'm reluctant to generalise from what their Overseer's hands look like.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
Oh God cable internet is so much better for uploading images for my LPs oh my God.

... ahem.

Expect an update sometime this evening or tomorrow, when I can gather the focus to sit down and write the huge amount of stuff that happened.

POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.
Pillbug
:ohdear: Dare we ask what kind of connection you've been using lately?

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

:ohdear: Dare we ask what kind of connection you've been using lately?

I've had an old DSL connection for a long, long time. My budget for things has been fairly limited, which has made the times I've had to shell out some money for the LP hobby sting a little, but I found a cost-effective way to switch to cable, and had it installed yesterday. So very much appreciating the improvement.

Siegkrow
Oct 11, 2013

Arguing about Lore for 5 years and counting



nweismuller posted:

I've had an old DSL connection for a long, long time. My budget for things has been fairly limited, which has made the times I've had to shell out some money for the LP hobby sting a little, but I found a cost-effective way to switch to cable, and had it installed yesterday. So very much appreciating the improvement.

Buddy if you think DSL is bad, I have SATELLITE internet, I can barely download poo poo at 120 kb/s. I don't dare format my computer because my MMOs alone would take me weeks to download.

And since the big radio tower every staellite internet around here connects to isn't the best quality, have enough households use their internet at the same time and we end up with speeds that make dial-up look fast.

That is to say, even if I wanted to LP something, I'm hosed.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

Siegkrow posted:

Buddy if you think DSL is bad, I have SATELLITE internet, I can barely download poo poo at 120 kb/s. I don't dare format my computer because my MMOs alone would take me weeks to download.

And since the big radio tower every staellite internet around here connects to isn't the best quality, have enough households use their internet at the same time and we end up with speeds that make dial-up look fast.

That is to say, even if I wanted to LP something, I'm hosed.

Ouch, my sympathies.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
For the person who was wearing a tinfoil hat because the Darlok home system is 'Nazin'... given their visual design in MoO1, I am reasonably sure what 'Nazin' is is an allusion to is 'Nazgul'. In MoO1, they were portrayed as seemingly immaterial cloaked beings with glowing red eyes. Their military representative for when they captured technology by military means even wielded an Ominous Rune-Etched Sword!

ManxomeBromide
Jan 29, 2009

old school

nweismuller posted:

For the person who was wearing a tinfoil hat because the Darlok home system is 'Nazin'... given their visual design in MoO1, I am reasonably sure what 'Nazin' is is an allusion to is 'Nazgul'. In MoO1, they were portrayed as seemingly immaterial cloaked beings with glowing red eyes. Their military representative for when they captured technology by military means even wielded an Ominous Rune-Etched Sword!



(image courtesy the Alien Species wiki)

Not only that, one of the default Darlok emperor names is "Nazgur".

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.

ManxomeBromide posted:



(image courtesy the Alien Species wiki)

Not only that, one of the default Darlok emperor names is "Nazgur".

The default Darlok ruler name in nuMoO is still Nazgur.

MechaCrash
Jan 1, 2013

It's only a matter of time before he has to change his name to "Nazgiblets." :colbert:

Aerdan
Apr 14, 2012

Not Dennis NEDry

nweismuller posted:

The default Darlok ruler name in nuMoO is still Nazgur.

We don't need no steenkin' ringwraiths! :v:

(I'm sure the xenophobic sections of the 'net would be going on about how Tolkien warned us about them Nazgoolz, should they strike first.)

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....
The Darloks are ringwraiths, the Psilons are greys with their spacechips all being actual flying saucers.

The answer is clear: All pop culture authors of the past were actually Orionian exiles in disguise, trying to hint us of what is to come :tinfoil:

Stephen9001
Oct 28, 2013

Theantero posted:

The Darloks are ringwraiths, the Psilons are greys with their spacechips all being actual flying saucers.

The answer is clear: All pop culture authors of the past were actually Orionian exiles in disguise, trying to hint us of what is to come :tinfoil:

Alternatively, they somehow unknowingly shaped reality so that their fictional creations would become real, like dreaming elder gods.

I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

nweismuller posted:

Ouch, my sympathies.

Man, this gives me flashbacks back to the early 2000s, when my first internet connection was an eleven meters long cable connecting my cheap impuls modem with my mother's phoneline. Of course only during the night, since plugging in my modem blocked her telephone connection. 16,7kb/s maximum speed. Mostly thanks to the eleven meters long cable I dutifully rolled up every morning. :shepface:

Ahem. Also, I looked up Stars in Shadow and bought it. Thanks to your avatar, mostly.

Siegkrow
Oct 11, 2013

Arguing about Lore for 5 years and counting



ManxomeBromide posted:



(image courtesy the Alien Species wiki)

Not only that, one of the default Darlok emperor names is "Nazgur".

That is a really metal advidor tho.
"My Liege, I recommend you lower our planet's pollution!"
"Ehh, can it wait? we kinda have to produce some ships"
*Unsheating of sword* "I'd ACUTELY recommend you SLASH our planet's pollution, my liege"

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
Many Meetings




The radiation-blasted world of Erebus in the Tyrannus system was colonised in 2601, Humanity's second new colony since the outbreak of the Second Human-Bulrathi War. The great deposits of metals and of 'dark quartz', a superb semiconductor, helped jumpstart local industry on the planet, while the local population huddled under sealed-environment domes.




The following year, continued refinements of the principles behind existing shield systems helped bear fruit. Shield systems linked into gravity generators could compensate for the treacherous gravitic forces along the hyperspace conduits that previously had marked the edge of Human exploration, while compact shield systems were developed that could offer a measure of protection to individuals or small vehicles in an atmosphere. The equipment of the Republic's surface forces was updated, even as Space Fleet's explorer corps set off spinward, driftward, and coreward to explore more of the galaxy.



Almost immediately, the John Paul Jones exploring spinward found evidence of habitation beyond the section of the galaxy shared by Humanity and the Bulrathi- a series of crude asteroid fortifications and battered supply ships that were clearly the stronghold of some alien band of pirates. Her captain ordered the John Paul Jones to move in and reduce these fortifications, making sure shipping lanes would remain open in this direction.






The year following, the John Paul Jones systematically obliterated the fortifications there, leaving metals and materials for later salvage. The aliens inhabiting this stronghold proved to be a slender, predatory mammaloid species not unlike cats, and the John Paul Jones' movement further into the Zonaus system allowed contact with an outlying ship representing this alien species' civilisation.






The High Queendom of the Mrrshan proved to be a fairly liberal feudal monarchy, with a line of high queens offering justice and protection to her free subjects. The Mrrshan were a proud and quick-tempered species that did not accept insult or bondage, and many Mrrshan would answer the call to defend their homes and freedoms in time of need. Formal diplomatic relations were rapidly established between the High Queendom and the Republic, while Human corporations and Mrrshan trading families prepared to invest in the opening of trade between the two civilisations. The Mrrshan had been hard-pressed by an ongoing war against another alien species, and accepted Human friendship gladly.



Meanwhile, back in Bulrathi space, Imperial Intelligence had launched a series of political assassinations and bombings against police assets on the occupied world of Korga. At least temporarily, the government of Korga was thrown into disarray, and needed to be reorganised from the ground up.





The year also saw Space Fleet assault and destroy the last set of border fortifications in the Rosemund system, clearing the path to Lirr. The two Space Fleet battleships and their escort, the frigate Rifleman, prepared to set out for the Lirr system to blockade Gelkiy, the last Bulrathi world that had escaped Human blockade.






By 2605, full-scale trade began flowing across the borders of the High Queendom of the Mrrshan and the Human Republic. To help finance this trade, Human corporations issued a series of loans to Mrrshan families, and purchased several valuable assets within Mrrshan borders. Growing exchange of ideas led to advanced Human agricultural technology being marketed to the Mrrshan, while Mrrshan techniques of building massively parallel research supercomputers using major oceanic bodies to help dissipate the heat involved were taught to Human engineers.



By 2605, the John Paul Jones arrived at Katab, whose system proved to have no fewer than three extremely hospitable planets in it, two of which were already colonised by the Mrrshan. The oceanic world of Herat was under blockade by a heavily damaged cruiser of a new alien species, which established communications with the crew of the John Paul Jones.







The Klackons were an insectoid species joined into a rudimentary hive mind by their natural limited telepathic abilities, focused around the leadership of a 'queen' whose telepathic sensitivity let her more clearly interpret the unified will of the species. They had been locked in a lenghy war with the Mrrshan, and regarded Humanity with some suspicion, but nonetheless they agreed to formal establishment of diplomatic ties. The High Queendom protested this development, pointing out that it would be threatened by any aid to its enemies.



By the end of the year, the Royal Navy had hunted down the ship blockading Herat, lifting the blockade and bringing relief to the suffering people of the planet.




Meanwhile, a Royal Navy patrol frigate warned the John Paul Jones off from the Katab system, which was formally claimed by the High Queendom but had no effective border defenses established yet. The John Paul Jones turned back, with no shots fired.





Back in Bulrathi space, the year saw a Bulrathi frigate lift off from the surface of Bulra in an attempt to break the blockade, but this frigate was destroyed in a bitter skirmish with the Chevalier. The blockade held. This was also the year Space Fleet arrived in Lirr, discovering that a force of 160 million Bulrathi soldiers had been loaded into transports in orbit around Gelkiy, evidently held in reserve in an effort to recapture worlds lost to the Republic or to reinforce remaining Imperial worlds.






In 2606, an Imperial Intelligence team was apprehended on Sunrise, attempting to steal information and prototypes for Human military technology; they were eventually wiped out after a running gun battle with security personnel and local law enforcement. Imperial spies were beginning to become aware that their chances of not being executed if they were captured was minimal. On Porov, the Thunderbolt thwarted an attempt by a newly-built Bulrathi frigate to break the blockade there, while a pair of Bulrathi cruisers that had been operating independently were sighted at the edge of the Rosemund system. Space Fleet battleships were diverted back to intercept, lest the Imperial cruisers attack the Thunderbolt and break the blockade.





Early in 2607, Space Fleet made intercept with the Imperial cruisers. The battle that followed was brief. Imperial missile fire was intercepted by Space Fleet's point defense, although the Rifleman suffered some damage from a pair of mass driver slugs that impacted its armor. The Imperial cruisers fared less well, being ripped into debris by heavy mass driver fire from Space Fleet.



The Space Fleet task group that defeated these cruisers saw that a fleet of Bulrathi pirates was assembled in the Zhardan system, ready to sweep in and attempt to raid Imperial space.



Another frigate launched from Bulra that year in an attempt to break the blockade. Although some of its missile fire detonated and weakend the Chevalier's shields, the Chevalier nonetheless avoided any significant damage.



A group of Imperial Intelligence operatives were discovered hidden on Earth in 2609, in the process of attempting to fabricate false diplomatic message traffic to place in government computers. IIA and police surrounded and captured the spies, who were eventually executed for espionage after a fair trial.




This was hardly the most dramatic news of the year, however- the Benjamin Hornigold, exploring coreward from Human space, had come across a massive planet with an extremely hospitable biosystem and evidence of ancient ruins from the Orion Confederation scattered across much of the surface. In orbit, an automated battleship, immensely larger than modern battleships, still held its position, pinging the scout frigate with sensor sweeps as soon as the frigate entered the system. The Benjamin Hornigold chose to steer clear of this planet, despite the potential riches represented by this greatest store of evidence of the ancient Orions yet found.





The year following saw major breakthroughs in the generation of artificial gravity fields- they were now able to be cost-effectively scaled up to correct gravitational forces across all the inhabited areas of a planet. Generation of synthetic gravity could potentially allow the induction of artificial hyperspace conduits, making long-distance travel more rapid and direct, and the creation of gravity reaction drives allowed for reliable and maneuverable antigravity vehicles, even as compact as a wearable harness allowing limited flight. Despite the potential of creating artificial hyperspace conduits, the infrastructure to support this would not be cheap.



The year also saw another Imperial Intelligence team apprehended and eliminated, this one in the process of attempting to insert viruses to crash out the communications networks on Paradise yet again. It became clear that the vigilance of the Republic's police and the IIA was helping to protect its people against the malice of the Bulrathi Empire.




The Pinaka, which had been sent driftward to scout, by this time had passed all the way through Imperial territory. It intercepted the 160 million Imperial troops on their transports in the Rosemund system, and repeatedly volleyed missiles into the transports until all were destroyed. The Imperial efforts to reinforce its front lines had been thwarted in the single bloodiest day of the war.




The pirates from Zhardan arrived in Rosemund later that year, and engaged in a brief battle with the Pinaka, which handily defeated both pirate vessels. The crude equipment used by exiles and renegades was thoroughly outmatched by modern military ships.




In 2611, the John Paul Jones was once again driven from the Katab system, which it had returned to in an effort to scout further rimward. The John Paul Jones' captain gave up on further efforts to pass that point, and turned the ship around to return to the Republic.





2612 brought another attempt to break the blockade at Bulra, in which the Chevalier destroyed a newly-commissioned Imperial cruiser. The Chevalier's captain was growing increasingly worried that alone, it would not always be able to maintain the advantage of the maneuver, and hoped that relief would come soon. Meanwhile, a resurgence of piracy at Warikomi disrupted planned shipping of reinforcements for the Republican surface forces towards the front lines of the war, delaying them until the John Paul Jones could assist.




The Pinaka arrived at the pirate stronghold on the barely-habitable world in the Zhardan system in 2613, bombarding its installations on the surface and salvaging what materials it could, before pressing on further driftward.









The Benjamin Hornigold, continuing exploration of the galactic core, came across an exploration vessel from the Federation of Psilon Quanta in 2614. The Psilons were a highly intelligent, physically-fragile race governed by a Controller selected by the many local governments, or 'quanta', in the Federation. It had a number of democratic traditions, and the FPQ and the Republic rapidly established formal diplomatic relations. Both the Human and Psilon business communities were eager to begin trade, and, despite the fact the two polities occupied precisely opposite sections of the galactic disk, shipping began across the core between the two polities within the year.





By 2615, the invasion of Bulra was finally ready, with 240 million Republic troops ready to force a landing on the Bulrathi homeworld. The fighting was long and bloody, and after most of a year, what remained of the invasion force was in control of the major population centers of Bulra, while the survivors of the defenders had scattered to the wilderness. The Bulrathi Emperor died in battle in 2615, attempting to charge a Republic artillery position along with his personal guard. With the death of the Emperor and the isolation of the remaining Empire from any potential surviving heirs, what resistance was left in the Empire was left in the hands of local lords, who fought on independently.









Meanwhile, the Pinaka had finally pushed beyond the limits of previous Human exploration and entered the Thoth system. There was evidence of an alien pirate base there, but most remarkable was the fact that the Pinaka was hailed by other ships in the system which it could not pick up on its sensors. The Darlok Administration, although willing to open formal diplomatic channels, was extremely secretive about both its species and internal political structure. Even the exchange of Human technology for Darlok genetic techniques for developing telepathic individuals was accompanied by a heavy redaction of the genetic data to minimise what Humanity could learn about the species. Before the Pinaka could assault the pirate base, the still-unseen Darlok fleet had sterilised it completely, leaving no bodies or artifacts for Humans to examine.





By 2616, the Republic was beginning to enter a major economic boom, the wealth created by trade with the Mrrshan and Psilons fueling expansions of industry and commerce. Trade relations were soon established with the Darlok Administration, although its ruling Cabal required that trade vessels be stopped at the borders and conduct business through an Administration-owned shell company, preventing them from penetrating far into Darlok space.





The year following brought about the apprehension and execution of another Imperial Intelligence team, this one attempting to orchestrate a campaign of bombings and destruction across Korga. A Bulrathi cruiser lifted off from the surface of Porov, where it was promptly destroyed by the blockading force, although not before inflicting some damage and a few casualties on the Rifleman via mass driver fire.









In 2618, the Pinaka arrived at Inganok, discovering a scout vessel from the Meklar Combine there. The Meklar Combine was a civilisation of artificially-intelligent robots built around brains of 'neural gel', governed by a council of powerful immobile AIs, the Main Combine Cycle, each of which maintained its own region of authority within Meklar space while responding to the petitions of the citizens under it. The Overseer of the Main Combine Cycle, the ultimate head of the entire Combine, was eager to establish relations with Humanity, and reported that the Combine was at war with the Darlok Administration following severe provocations by spies from the Darlok Administration. The Cabal of the Darlok Administration issued their own statement, accusing the Meklars of cold and unfeeling evil, and urging the Human Republic to break off all relations with the Meklars.






The Pinaka did not remain at Inganok long- the Darlok fleet ambushed it there, surrounding it and swamping it with missile fire before it could withdraw, destroying the scout vessel. The Darlok Administration protected its secrecy harshly indeed.





A year after first contact with the Meklars, trade relations opened between the Meklar Combine and Human Republic, with human corporations making significant investments and loans that helped fund operations for trading in the Combine itself. Trade between the two polities needed to hug the rim driftward of Human territory to avoid interception by the Darlok fleet, but nonetheless it proved highly profitable for both sides.



Meanwhile, the Benjamin Hornigold discovered, deep in the outer portions of the Janib system, an abandoned warship remarkably similar to an outdated Space Fleet frigate. This frigate, dubbed the Revenant, was fitted with a prize crew to fly it back to the Republic for study and refit. The source of this frigate remained mysterious, and more than a little unsettling.




2620 brought major breakthroughs in Human understanding of physics in hyperspace, as study of the mysterious hyperspace dimension had continued for centuries. Firing a beam to cause a hyperspace breach, releasing a violent surge of gravitation and radiation from hyperspace on impact, could potentially be a lethal weapon, especially at closer ranges. A firm understanding of hyperspace also allowed the construction of the first communications arrays sending signals directly through hyperspace. This greatly increased the speed and reduced the cost of communications across the Republic, and helped draw the entire Republic closer together.





Meanwhile, the High Queendom of the Mrrshan attempted to trade designs for basic ion stream weaponry in exchange for data on Human sensor technology. Although the value of the weapons thus provided were minimal to the Republic, the Xenorelations Council advised approving the deal in the interests of continued friendship and good relations between Humanity and the Mrrshan. The Klackon were alarmed by this deal, warning the Republic that such actions stood in the way of the objectives of the Klackon.

The Human Republic and Known Space as of 2620




The Human Republic now dominates its entire quadrant of the galaxy. The Bulrathi Empire is little more than a rump state, lacking unified leadership, a space fleet, or any significant economic base, and Republican forces are already massing to occupy more Imperial territory. The days of the Empire are numbered. The IIA is not certain that Imperial Intelligence has been entirely neutralised, but is confident that its recent losses have severely depleted its assets, which no longer have any centralised command to coordinate them.






Human explorations spinward and driftward have largely been halted, due to the obstacles presented by the Mrrshan and Darlok polities, while explorations into the core continue. Many new worlds have been identified, and perhaps the Human Republic will stretch into the core soon.




Based on reports from the other civilisations Humanity has met, they believe that unstable hyperspace conduits divide the galaxy into four rough 'quadrants' surrounding the galactic core. The Human Republic and Bulrathi Empire originated in the Local Quadrant, the Darlok Administration and Meklar Combine dominate the Driftward Quadrant, the High Queendom of the Mrrshan and the Klackon dominate the Spinward Quadrant, and the FPQ and the 'Alkari' civilisation the Psilons report share their quadrant dominate the Far Quadrant. The Human Republic, FPQ, and Meklar Combine are large and successful polities, while the Darlok Administration and High Queendom of the Mrrshan are hard-pressed by their enemies. The Klackon, although a larger civilisation than the Mrrshan, have been badly drained by the extended war they have prosecuted, and are not as successful as the Meklars, Psilons, or Humans.

The Human economy has boomed with continued development and with the establishment of trade relations with four new civilisations. Investment and innovation have risen dramatically, and Humanity is prospering, even despite the hardships of war.




New teaching methods and training for careful rationality have become standard across Earth's universities, which are now the finest in the Republic. The planet's contribution to scientific innovation has greatly increased, and the construction of new supercomputer arrays in the oceans is expected to further aid scientific efforts here.




Use of advanced optronic technology in entertainment and recreation has become widespread on Paradise, helping boost the spirits on this world. Growing prosperity has led to previous social problems with discontent and underemployment essentially vanishing here, leaving the planet happier and more productive. Investment in the best-equipped Human colony mission ever is under way on Paradise, to eventually go forth and set up a new colony with a wealth of robotic equipment to rapidly establish basic infrastructure. Soil and water contamination here has very slowly been dropping over the past decades, although it is still a notable concern.

Now that we have our morale of 100% here, we no longer have those irritating strikers, and have everybody contributing. This pleases me.




Use of advanced robotics in Sunrise's heavy industry have cut heavy industrial employment here from approximately 200 million to 100 million, while new entertainments and recreations have helped make for a more satisfied population. Development of expanded space port facilities and the industries to support an expanded export sector have started to attract investment. The planet has become quite heavily polluted over the past two decades, although it is rebounding relatively rapidly.




Over the past two decades, the communications and computing infrastructure of New Babylon has been updated and modernised, factories have been fitted with emissions scrubbers, and entertainment and recreation on the planet has undergone a major boom. The population has continued to grow, and is solidly more prosperous and happy than twenty years ago.




Industrial fusion plants and growing industrial population have greatly bolstered the industrial output of Niflheim, as well as its rate of contamination of the areas surrounding inhabited regions. Work is well under way to modernise the local communications infrastructure, then establish atmospheric reprocessing plants that should scrub contamination from the atmosphere.




Gobi now exceeds two billion persons in population, with established research departments, a well-developed local business community, and a stable and effective series of local governments on the planet. A sizeable agricultural sector has developed to feed the growing population. Construction on a new Space Fleet command station around the planet has started. The planet is less dependent on outside investment than it once was, but still requires a steady stream of outside capital.




A basic industrial, agricultural, and scientific base has been established on Erebus, and local commerce has been burgeoning. The planet is highly dependent on outside investment, still, and settlement remains confined to complexes nearly buried under stone.

The pollution limit on Radiated and Toxic worlds is set so high that it is impossible to accumulate pollution on them. Essentially, there's no way to make the environment outside worse by dumping waste outside.






Bulra, the ancestral homeworld of the Bulrathi, is a well-developed planet with a population of over 15 billion. Resistance cells led by local aristocrats are active across much of the wilderness of the planet, while many of its cities are half in ruins. The occupation must fight daily across the planet to put down resistance attacks and to win over the support of the general population. A major orbital warehousing station over Bulra was constructed by the Empire, serving as a place to gather materials for importation to Bulra in support of major projects.




Korga is a world divided. The bulk of the population now supports the Republic and the occupation government, but sullen resistance, protests, and the occasional act of terrorism still remain common. Many ground troops have been recruited from Korga for the campaign to subdue Bulra, much to the resentment of those who still support the old Empire. The government has been reorganised as a series of republics with the franchise extended to the population over the past decades, and deployment of modern robotics in Korga's industry has started to become very widespread.




Much of the physical damage of the invasion has been repaired on Kalov, and many of the rebels hunted down, but widespread, uncoordinated resistance remains common. Still, many younger inhabitants of Kalov have started to become firm supporters of the Republic. Communications and computing here have been modernised, and Space Fleet is setting up a new orbital station here to support its campaign.

Proposals For the People of the Republic

Research Priorities



With new communications, a revolution in military logistics and in commerce across the Republic is now possible, and many wealthy and powerful backers push for the establishment of ever-stronger webs of commerce to bolster the prosperity of the Republic. On the other hand, further study of hyperspace physics could lead to design refinements for the new concept of 'hyperspace phase cannon', or study into advanced artificial gravity technologies could eventually lead to laying the foundation for even more effective weapons, while allowing for effective development of powerful antimatter torpedoes to replace current torpedoes. Further development of computer science could have great benefits in military and scientific fields, while a program of development of engineering technologies will allow for planetary engineering and important advances in shipbuilding, while perhaps helping pave the way for revolutions in industry in the future.
Please vote for economics, hyperspace physics, gravitational physics, computing, or engineering research.

Foreign Policy
Contact with multiple new alien civilisations has led to new challenges in the Republic's foreign policy, along with the great benefits of friendship and trade. Two of the polities Humanity has contacted are severely threatened, and could potentially collapse without aid- the High Queendom of the Mrrshan has, in fact, transferred its capital to the planet of Hrset in the Katab system over the past decades, amidst the damage wreaked on their homeworld of Yileria over the course of the war. The legislature has so far favored a policy of friendship without commitment to the Mrrshan High Queendom, the Meklar Combine, and the FPQ, but closer relations may be possible, especially with the Mrrshan. Some polities may present long-term threats, although the extent of any threat remains to be seen.
Actively seeking non-aggression agreements with the Mrrshan or Meklars may be possible. The Mrrshan could almost certainly use military aid. Please discuss foreign policy, and propose plans for consideration.

Shipbuilding
The Defense Department has set a goal to commission four new Peacemaker battleships in the long term, thus allowing for the establishment of two battleships each at the core of Driftward, Spinward, and Coreward fleets to cover the major approaches to Human territory. Such a program would be expensive, however, and many worlds of the Republic have a great deal of development to go. Delay on this program could be possible without seriously threatening the Republic's security, but it may still be of value.
Please vote for no fleet expansion at this time, slow fleet expansion, or all in on fleet expansion.

Economic Development
Many worlds of the Republic have been building up infrastructure and development, although the priorities of investors on them may differ. Given its role as a major shipbuilding center, some investors have considered construction of a major warehousing complex over Paradise to help expedite imports there. Investment into education or into shipping, exports, and imports have both been high on Sunrise, while New Babylon has seen investment into shipping, industrial robotics, and education. Once the atmospheric reprocessors on Niflheim are completed, investment capital may flow to industrial robotics, improved port facilities and export industries, the entertainment industry, or a major program of terraforming.
Please vote yea or nay on a geosynchronous warehouse for Paradise before anything else. Please vote between a spaceport or astro university first on Sunrise, and a spaceport, robo miner plant, or astro university on New Babylon. Likewise, vote for robo miner plants, spaceport, a holo simulator, or terraforming on Niflheim.

Scouting and Anti-Piracy
The Defense Department has requested the budget for one more Hornigold-class frigate. Barring the budget for the new frigate, whether the John Paul Jones should be kept on anti-piracy duties or detached to scout the galactic core near the edges of the Driftward Quadrant has been a matter of some dispute.
Please vote yea or nay on commissioning a new Hornigold-class frigate; please also vote whether to prioritise counter-piracy or scouting first.

Technology Acquisition and Star Charts
The Meklars and Psilons both have access to potentially-interesting technologies, and all three of the Meklars, Psilons, and Mrrshan should have useful starchart data. What should be pursued remains a question of benefit and cost, however.
I will prepare a list of potential technologies from other races if people ask, and can tell what we'd need to acquire technologies or charts on inquiry.

The war is well on the way to victory, while the fruits of trade and peaceful endeavor have made life better for all Humanity. The bloodshed on the front is tragic, but soon enough it shall likely be at an end. What Humanity makes of the opportunities and dangers of these new alien species remains to be seen.

nweismuller fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Apr 24, 2017

  • Locked thread