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The Glumslinger posted:Thanks everyone for the advice, I'm still pretty new at DMing, so this is very good advice. A lot of it really is just learning how to interpret the rules and how to enforce the fiction, what kinds of things I can do that aren't just arbitrary dick moves One way to avoid your moves feeling arbitrary is just to warn your players first. If they declare they are gonna slash the cube with a sword, just say: "You know it's a big old cube of acidic jelly, right? Are you sure you want to sword it?". If they say "yes", then they have it coming.
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Jan 24, 2017 07:53
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thefakenews posted:One way to avoid your moves feeling arbitrary is just to warn your players first. If they declare they are gonna slash the cube with a sword, just say: "You know it's a big old cube of acidic jelly, right? Are you sure you want to sword it?". If they say "yes", then they have it coming. Not to say this is a bad idea, but you can also telegraph it narratively -- a sword ineffectually embeddd in the cube, already half digested when they encounter it.
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Jan 24, 2017 08:04
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admanb posted:Not to say this is a bad idea, but you can also telegraph it narratively -- a sword ineffectually embeddd in the cube, already half digested when they encounter it. Narrative telegraphing is better, sure. But sometimes if you forget to do that, reminding a player what their character knows about the world is a good Plan B.
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Jan 24, 2017 09:42
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thefakenews posted:One way to avoid your moves feeling arbitrary is just to warn your players first. If they declare they are gonna slash the cube with a sword, just say: "You know it's a big old cube of acidic jelly, right? Are you sure you want to sword it?". If they say "yes", then they have it coming. You should almost always be doing this anyway in any RPG: before the player rolls for something, you must set the stakes. (the corollary being that if there are no stakes, then you shouldn't be rolling to begin with)
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Jan 24, 2017 09:45
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Ran my first session of this (first time DMing any system) last week, and it's fantastically fun. One thing I'm concerned about is that my major moments to push the story forward come from making moves when they roll poorly, which makes it feel like I'm emphasising how bad they are at being adventurers. The first scene went really well - had them tied up and being interrogated in a hostile city, which lead to a great chaotic fight scene with poorly-aimed spells, throwing chairs, kicking people out of windows - but then it started feeling a bit Benny Hill. Go to gather supplies -> get discovered by authorities -> mad chase through streets -> teleport into sewers -> land on Otyugh etc. They all had a blast, and I love how DW gives you those moments of "I tried to do [X], but missed, which meant that [terrible thing worse than X] happened, so I had to...." but I'm worried I'm overdoing it.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:07
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Ran my first session of this (first time DMing any system) last week, and it's fantastically fun. If you and your players had fun, then you were doing it correctly.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:31
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If you're worried about deprotagonizing them too much, you can always make a move that isn't directly related to the failure. You'll likely want to use the technique sparingly though. Usually if they're directly avoiding a clear danger the consequences will be fairly obvious, and if you don't follow through it takes a lot of the tension out. One thing I notice a lot of new DW GMs do is tell people incorrect information on failed spout lore or discern realities rolls. IMO, a better way to handle that is that you tell them the truth, but make it something they really don't want to hear. "Lie to them" is nowhere on your moves sheet. So instead, "Reveal an unwelcome truth" or "Show signs of an approaching threat". "Sure, you've heard of [quest item] (tell me how!), but last you heard it was in a dragon's hoard."
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Jan 24, 2017 19:31
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Ran my first session of this (first time DMing any system) last week, and it's fantastically fun. This isn't the only way to run Dungeon World but it's absolutely a way that is supported by the design. At some point you may find your players want to push forward towards one of their goals, whatever that happened to be, and you may want to shift your consequences to keep them focused on that goal, though the consequences should still make the goal more difficult to achieve. As long as people are engaged and having fun, keep it up!
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Jan 24, 2017 21:34
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Ran my first session of this (first time DMing any system) last week, and it's fantastically fun. A 6- is a miss, but it isn't necessarily a failure. You can make the give an opportunity move to provide a different avenue; you can give them what they want at a price or while revealing a threat. If you do make it so they fail at their intent, make sure you often narrate that the PC did everything right, or to the best of their abilities, but circumstances intervened. That way it isn't PC incompetence that causes the problems, which reduces the slapstick.
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Jan 24, 2017 22:16
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A good way to do that is to put responsibility for the failure on the opposition. So if the PC fails to Defy Danger (say roll + DEX to dodge an incoming attack), it's not that the PC tripped or stumbled or whatever, it's that "holy poo poo this monster is faster than you thought!"
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Jan 24, 2017 22:25
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ImpactVector posted:IOne thing I notice a lot of new DW GMs do is tell people incorrect information on failed spout lore or discern realities rolls. IMO, a better way to handle that is that you tell them the truth, but make it something they really don't want to hear. Yeah, this is great advice and something it took me most of my first DW campaign to understand. It's easy for new players and GMs to treat Discern Realities as a Spot check and Spout Lore as a Knowledge check, but they aren't. They're a way for players to ask the GM questions that the GM has to respond truthfully to--but there's no rule that the GM has to know the answer before the player asks the question. You can and should use the result of their roll to determine how happy they should be to learn the answer.
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Jan 24, 2017 22:34
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Harrow posted:Yeah, this is great advice and something it took me most of my first DW campaign to understand. It's easy for new players and GMs to treat Discern Realities as a Spot check and Spout Lore as a Knowledge check, but they aren't. They're a way for players to ask the GM questions that the GM has to respond truthfully to--but there's no rule that the GM has to know the answer before the player asks the question. You can and should use the result of their roll to determine how happy they should be to learn the answer.
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Jan 24, 2017 22:43
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ImpactVector posted:I actually do this most of the time even in games with spot checks nowadays. It's still great. Yeah, it's something I've carried forward. If nothing else, it helps prevent the "Well, the players failed every check to see what's going on in this room, so what now?" stall that I used to fall into when I was a shittier GM. It's a great way to keep things rolling, takes some of the pressure off the GM to prepare things for the players to find everywhere, and helps enforce that "every time the dice roll, something happens" that I love in good RPGs.
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Jan 24, 2017 22:53
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The important thing here is that these kinds of moves are also an important cue to the MC that it's time to add something to the fiction. For instance, if the player rolls read a sitch in AW and asks, "What's my best way in?" it's up to you to offer them a way in. Maybe it's something you hadn't initially considered, some approach or vulnerability that the PC spots. Whatever it is, it's totally cool (and usually preferable) to make it up on the spot. It's also a great way to gently caress with the players, because it alters the fiction in a way that is mechanically enforceable. If your ultraviolent PC wants to know the best way in, it's perfectly cool to say, "You take the measure of the place and realize that a full frontal assault is loving suicide. Your best way in is probably to bluff your way past the guards out front, but you'll only be able to do that if you're not festooned in weapons and armor. You'll have to appear less threatening." That way, if they want that sweet, sweet +1 forward, they're rolling Defy Danger +CHA instead of simply Hacking and Slashing their way in like idiots. In AW parlance, this is you "offering an opportunity with a cost."
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Jan 24, 2017 23:35
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Ilor posted:The important thing here is that these kinds of moves are also an important cue to the MC that it's time to add something to the fiction. For instance, if the player rolls read a sitch in AW and asks, "What's my best way in?" it's up to you to offer them a way in. Maybe it's something you hadn't initially considered, some approach or vulnerability that the PC spots. Whatever it is, it's totally cool (and usually preferable) to make it up on the spot. The corollary of this is that sometimes it is OK not to come up with a cool or interesting new way in on the spot, and just say "your best way in is to try and murder those six plate-armoured guards with the big gently caress off halberds". This can certainly be "revealing an unwelcome truth".
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Jan 25, 2017 13:17
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Very true. Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one.
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Jan 25, 2017 17:12
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Harrow posted:Yeah, this is great advice and something it took me most of my first DW campaign to understand. It's easy for new players and GMs to treat Discern Realities as a Spot check and Spout Lore as a Knowledge check, but they aren't. They're a way for players to ask the GM questions that the GM has to respond truthfully to--but there's no rule that the GM has to know the answer before the player asks the question. You can and should use the result of their roll to determine how happy they should be to learn the answer. I've also used 6- on Spout Lore or Discern Realities to say "Well, while you are distracted by trying to figure this out, <bad thing happens>." On my first campaign I also went in for asking: "What do you believe to be the case, and what is actually true?" when Spout Lore failed, but while this made for some pretty memorable moments I think the other two options are generally better.
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Jan 26, 2017 00:11
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Could anyone recommend a good monk/martial artist playbook? Looking for one with an emphasis on fighting style but a lot of playbooks for that are pretty mono-combat.
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Jan 26, 2017 18:45
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Half of Dracula posted:Could anyone recommend a good monk/martial artist playbook? Looking for one with an emphasis on fighting style but a lot of playbooks for that are pretty mono-combat. Mors Rattus' Initiate {DTRPG) is the only one I've run in any of my games, the player who used it had a great time doing JiuJitsu on Orcs.
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Jan 26, 2017 20:47
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Excellent advice, I shall try those techniques tomorrow. ImpactVector posted:
I was going almost obnoxiously terse on failed spout/discern - "it's a genie. looks pissed" - gives a strong signal that I'm planning shenanigans, so they're all on their toes, but doesn't give too much away. Although my players have already tried to chug mysterious bottles carved with even more mysterious runes, so maybe I should spell things out a bit more for them.
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Jan 26, 2017 21:54
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Whybird posted:I've also used 6- on Spout Lore or Discern Realities to say "Well, while you are distracted by trying to figure this out, <bad thing happens>." The best use we've had for a failed spout lore is to have the player describe some ridiculous "fact", and then put it in the game in some facet. And that's how my game's ranger ended up creating an eight-breasted soul-devouring she-spider demon temptress from the nine hells instead of a regular giant spider. Who rather promptly killed the Ranger and ate his bear's soul.
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Jan 26, 2017 21:57
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None of these are bad choices, to be honest. Your games will be most interesting if you mix and match them as appropriate.
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Jan 26, 2017 22:51
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I'm a big fan of Friends at the Table. Can anyone recommend other well-executed podcasts or YouTube series of folks playing dungeon world or similar game systems? Looking for more examples of collaborative storytelling and stuff that calls on the GM to really create stuff on the fly. e: I'm asking because I'm interested in playing on roll20 or something with friends and imagine I'll be running it. poor life choice fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 02:03
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poor life choice posted:I'm a big fan of Friends at the Table. Can anyone recommend other well-executed podcasts or YouTube series of folks playing dungeon world or similar game systems? Looking for more examples of collaborative storytelling and stuff that calls on the GM to really create stuff on the fly. Anything run by Adam Koebel, which means a bunch of shows on the Roll20 YouTube channel, named roll20app, as well as the RollPlay channel, which is confusingly named itmejp.
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Jan 27, 2017 07:47
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poor life choice posted:I'm a big fan of Friends at the Table. Can anyone recommend other well-executed podcasts or YouTube series of folks playing dungeon world or similar game systems? Looking for more examples of collaborative storytelling and stuff that calls on the GM to really create stuff on the fly. Some of my friends do The Dungeoneers. Its pretty ok.
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Jan 27, 2017 07:54
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poor life choice posted:I'm a big fan of Friends at the Table. Can anyone recommend other well-executed podcasts or YouTube series of folks playing dungeon world or similar game systems? Looking for more examples of collaborative storytelling and stuff that calls on the GM to really create stuff on the fly. Adam Koebel's twitch/youtube also has plenty of great RPG content, and his discord has a solid & active RPG community. Checking through my podcast and twitch/youtube lists: Eric Vulgaris on twitch/youtube & his podcast once upon a cast. Eric plays a lot of storygame style stuff, along with some burning wheel and torchbearer. The Mouse Guardians podcast, where they play through Mouse Guard and are generally adorable nerds. Missclicks on Twitch and Youtube. Tristarae on twitch and youtube. She's pretty new to the scene, but she's very good. The 6 Feats Under podcast, which features a lot of designers from these forums.
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Jan 29, 2017 01:43
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admanb posted:Anything run by Adam Koebel, which means a bunch of shows on the Roll20 YouTube channel, named roll20app, as well as the RollPlay channel, which is confusingly named itmejp. lokipunk posted:Some of my friends do The Dungeoneers. Its pretty ok. madadric posted:Adam Koebel's twitch/youtube also has plenty of great RPG content, and his discord has a solid & active RPG community. Thank you all! I've been listening to Adam Koebel's Office Hours. Once I'm caught up I'm going to get into the different podcasts and shows.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:58
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Both Pocketsized Play & Comic-Strip AP from The Gauntlet are pretty decent. Comic-Strip AP even includes foley effects and music! They also have a Youtube if you're into videos rather than podcasts.
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Jan 30, 2017 15:23
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I might have shot myself on the foot. A friend of mine was planning to run a high lethality, little combat game of 4e. I told him that was kind of missing the point of the system and he'd be better served by a game such as DW. He had no idea DW existed, so he started reading the DW SRD and was amazed. After the initial shock ("Wait, how do you determine a player's AC? How do you suffer damage?") he admitted it was the best system he's ever laid eyes upon... And then told me the idea behind his campaign was that players don't really have a "class", they have to earn their class skills all through a campaign by joining guilds and buying the skills from them. So he went and made 14 race-as-class playbooks that have 4 basic moves each and no advanced moves, the idea being that classes are your actual advanced moves. Also his only experiences as DM have been running D&D 3.5 and 4.0. I'm in for quite a ride, honestly.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:25
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Azran posted:I might have shot myself on the foot. A friend of mine was planning to run a high lethality, little combat game of 4e. I told him that was kind of missing the point of the system and he'd be better served by a game such as DW. He had no idea DW existed, so he started reading the DW SRD and was amazed. After the initial shock ("Wait, how do you determine a player's AC? How do you suffer damage?") he admitted it was the best system he's ever laid eyes upon... Ouch dude, are you actually in that game? That's some D&Dcausesbraindamage.txt right there.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:39
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As much as I love Dungeon World it sounds like the game your friend wants is Shadow of the Demon Lord.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:40
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Azran posted:I might have shot myself on the foot. A friend of mine was planning to run a high lethality, little combat game of 4e. I told him that was kind of missing the point of the system and he'd be better served by a game such as DW. He had no idea DW existed, so he started reading the DW SRD and was amazed. After the initial shock ("Wait, how do you determine a player's AC? How do you suffer damage?") he admitted it was the best system he's ever laid eyes upon... That sounds like a whole lotta work (for him) for very little payoff (for any of you) but maybe he'll actually be a decent DM?
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Jan 31, 2017 22:31
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Azran posted:And then told me the idea behind his campaign was that players don't really have a "class", they have to earn their class skills all through a campaign by joining guilds and buying the skills from them. So he went and made 14 race-as-class playbooks that have 4 basic moves each and no advanced moves, the idea being that classes are your actual advanced moves. This sounds like it is going to be a mess, but it should be a glorious mess and I hope it works out. I'm always glad to hear someone jump out of D&D and discover the wider tabletop world, its nice out here.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:49
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Like, on paper the idea of your race or background providing your starting moves and then learning advanced moves based on what you actually do in the fiction isn't bad, but this sort of sounds like it's going to be a really involved and detailed mess of rules that are at odds with each other. But at the same time it sounds sort of awesome in a really dumb way. If he wants to run a game with little combat then pretty much any edition of D&D, you know, the RPG based on a miniatures combat game that devotes most of its page space to combat rules, might not be the best fit for it. But then again, I'm not sure if DW is the best fit for what he wants to do either.
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Feb 1, 2017 14:42
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Azran posted:I might have shot myself on the foot. A friend of mine was planning to run a high lethality, little combat game of 4e. I told him that was kind of missing the point of the system and he'd be better served by a game such as DW. He had no idea DW existed, so he started reading the DW SRD and was amazed. After the initial shock ("Wait, how do you determine a player's AC? How do you suffer damage?") he admitted it was the best system he's ever laid eyes upon... Next step is to show your friend funnel world. It's a super lethal hack of dungeon world that does just that. Players create 4 or so squishy villagers each. If they survive the deadly meat grinder of their fist adventure, they get a class.
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Feb 2, 2017 02:30
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madadric posted:Next step is to show your friend funnel world. It's a super lethal hack of dungeon world that does just that. Players create 4 or so squishy villagers each. If they survive the deadly meat grinder of their fist adventure, they get a class. I can vouch for funnel world. The only survivor was a super strong undertaker with arrows and no bow dragging two goats around on top of her casket. The rest died to frogs.
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Feb 2, 2017 06:15
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Yeah, come to think of it, it sounds like Funnel World and Class Warfare is exactly what your friend wants. As others have mentioned, the former allows players to start as level 0 nobodies with no class, but once you survive your first adventure you get to pick a class. The latter is basically a DIY class-building guide for DW, and it pretty much allows for a pick-and-mix approach to creating characters. poo poo, I'm actually starting to get drawn to this idea myself.
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Feb 2, 2017 09:20
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Anyone have some good suggestion for poisons to go on traps? The ones in the book aren't really interesting enough (though I do enjoy Goldenroot, but it doesn't really fit into the dungeon I'm planning)
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Feb 6, 2017 06:03
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Hallucinogens. "Holy gently caress there's a spider with a human face crawling on your arm, what do you do?"
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Feb 6, 2017 07:19
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last time I hit my players with hallucinations I got this across by describing weird poo poo and when they asked for clarification I would tell them something completely different, or put in something that's out of place (wolf in a dungeon, the smell of someone baking a cake in a graveyard) and never follow up on it.
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Feb 9, 2017 03:59
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