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Making decisions you personally don't like isn't getting ratfucked JC. Also you're using the word wrong. Hillary was technically the one who was ratfucked.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:28
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Nevvy Z posted:Well, we don't run Hillary. That should mostly solve it. i agree, this would be a good step. but it wasn't just that we ran hillary, but a lot of mistakes she made that we should make sure not to make again in 2018. things like taking voters for granted, etc. FAUXTON posted:"Well, what are you going to do to fix my apathy" I huff, as my tap water bursts into flame ah, so voters will suddenly find it in their hearts to get out to the polls and vote for us in 2 years while we sit back?
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Jan 24, 2017 18:29
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JeffersonClay posted:Bernie would have won without those votes, I repeat to myself as the FSB elects trump again. Yes how did the commies steal The election? Oh wait. Hillary had a illegal server that lead To an FBI investigation and she chose to ignore the Midwest and only concentrated on Philly in Pennsylvania. Unless of course you're suggesting Mook is a KGB operative. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 18:36
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Trust me, this time Republicans will swing and vote D. No need to appeal to our base when we can appeal to the Republican base!
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Jan 24, 2017 18:37
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Even Neera Tanden acknowledges that Hillary has terrible judgment, something XylrocShammypants and JC, people who don't even know her, can't even accept.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:40
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Condiv posted:ah, so the problem is that voters were just too stupid to vote for hillary? sounds pretty hard to address in 2 years so that dems can win again, but maybe you have a solution? No the problem is the left was too stupid to realize they were getting ratfucked by putin.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:43
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JeffersonClay posted:No the problem is the left was too stupid to realize they were getting ratfucked by putin. Is Robby Mook a KGB operative?
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Jan 24, 2017 18:44
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Condiv posted:ah, so voters will suddenly find it in their hearts to get out to the polls and vote for us in 2 years while we sit back? No they'll do it while we slapfight over the 2016 primary
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Jan 24, 2017 18:46
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readingatwork posted:Making decisions you personally don't like isn't getting ratfucked JC. No it was the Democratic Party that got ratfucked. Putin watergated us and then released the poo poo that would create divisions in the party. And you fell for it. And now you are trying to pretend it didn't happen. From someone who complains constantly that democrats refuse to learn from our mistakes in the election, that's pretty absurd.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:47
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JeffersonClay posted:No it was the Democratic Party that got ratfucked. Putin watergated us and then released the poo poo that would create divisions in the party. And you fell for it. And now you are trying to pretend it didn't happen. From someone who complains constantly that democrats refuse to learn from our mistakes in the election, that's pretty absurd. So Hillary didn't contribute at all to her defeat?
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Jan 24, 2017 18:49
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MooselanderII posted:Even Neera Tanden acknowledges that Hillary has terrible judgment, something XylrocShammypants and JC, people who don't even know her, can't even accept. Neera tanden also acknowledges putin ratfucked the dems because she's not a moron. MooselanderII posted:So Hillary didn't contribute at all to her defeat? Both things can be true. I've criticized Clinton's campaign plenty in this thread.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:49
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personally, i really like the accusation of "you fell for it." like the idea is that there was this massive conspiracy set up to hand trump the presidency and the only way to see it is to be woke enough. ignore the fact that for a year and half prior to the election people were declaring hillary a bad, unelectable candidate. long before email severs and foreign hackers people were claiming she was incredibly vulnerable and weak. no. no, instead its actually a conspiracy and you fell for it and here's your tinfoil hat that will stop the russians from hacking your mind. the hillary people bought in so hard and went so deep into the hugbox of her candidacy that they literally cannot see reality beyond their tiny little world. now its all conspiracies and an evil cabal out to "ratfuck" them and if you criticize Her then you're actually supporting Trump and are probably a racist nazi. its almost funny. almost.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:50
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JeffersonClay posted:No the problem is the left was too stupid to realize they were getting ratfucked by putin. That sounds similarly hard to fix in 2 years. What is your recommended solution? Cause to me it seems you're focusing on issues that aren't fixable in any amount of time so you can go on pretending that Hillary was a poo poo candidate and made a lot of really dumb choices.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:51
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JeffersonClay posted:Neera tanden also acknowledges putin ratfucked the dems because she's not a moron. Well then what the gently caress? You seem to be pinning her loss solely on butt hurt Bernouts who got duped by Putin in your most recent posts.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:52
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There was a conspiracy to rob Clinton of the presidency and you fell for it. Indeed you continue to support that conspiracy by denying it existed.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:52
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Over in the Trump thread there are people freaking out about Elizabeth Warren voting for Carson in committee and declaring her a forever traitor to leftism so I'm gonna go ahead and say that people trashing Hillary a year and a half prior to the election came across as dumb weirdo leftists then just like they do now.MooselanderII posted:Well then what the gently caress? You seem to be pinning her loss solely on butt hurt Bernouts who got duped by Putin in your most recent posts. You didn't mention the existence of black and gay people in America in this post therefore I am assuming you hate both those groups. See how that is really dumb? It's a lot like what you are doing here.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:53
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Condiv posted:but we can try to make sure we aren't nominating dems under active fbi investigation
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Jan 24, 2017 18:53
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JeffersonClay posted:There was a conspiracy to rob Clinton of the presidency and you fell for it. Indeed you continue to support that conspiracy by denying it existed. I always wanted to be part of a conspiracy.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:54
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JeffersonClay posted:There was a conspiracy to rob Clinton of the presidency and you fell for it. Indeed you continue to support that conspiracy by denying it existed. unbelievable. you can't make this stuff up people. Nevvy Z posted:Over in the Trump thread there are people freaking out about Elizabeth Warren voting for Carson in committee and declaring her a forever traitor to leftism so I'm gonna go ahead and say that people trashing Hillary a year and a half prior to the election came across as dumb weirdo leftists then just like they do now. ah yes, the people who correctly claimed that hillary was a bad candidate are exactly like the people claiming that warren is now a forever traitor because you've assigned them both the same label. gotcha. how about recognizing that the "dumb weirdo leftists" who claimed hillary was a bad candidate were right. i don't give a gently caress about your dumb false equivalency regarding the warren situation. how about just recognizing that "the people who thought hillary might lose" were loving right. hillary lost. RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 18:54
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Condiv posted:That sounds similarly hard to fix in 2 years. What is your recommended solution? Cause to me it seems you're focusing on issues that aren't fixable in any amount of time so you can go on pretending that Hillary was a poo poo candidate and made a lot of really dumb choices. I think two years is enough time for dumb leftists to realize their error but maybe not if they keep putting their fingers in their ears screaming about Bernie.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:55
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Crowsbeak posted:I always wanted to be part of a conspiracy. Also if the FBI did investigate democratic candidates it would rapidly lose any credibility. I mean that would definitely put America on the road to 1861.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:55
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JeffersonClay posted:There was a conspiracy to rob Clinton of the presidency and you fell for it. Indeed you continue to support that conspiracy by denying it existed. Clinton was owed the Presidency, it was her due. The American people really let Hillary down.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:55
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FAUXTON posted:No they'll do it while we slapfight over the 2016 primary Doesn't sound terribly realistic to me fauxton. Maybe the dem party should do something to attract voters that sat out the election instead of just assuming they'll wake up and smell the roses on their own?
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Jan 24, 2017 18:55
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JeffersonClay posted:There was a conspiracy to rob Clinton of the presidency and you fell for it. Indeed you continue to support that conspiracy by denying it existed. Yes, I fell for it by voting for Hillary and by pointing out that Hillary's problems of her own making contributed to her loss.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:55
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JeffersonClay posted:There was a conspiracy to rob Clinton of the presidency and you fell for it. Indeed you continue to support that conspiracy by denying it existed. Bob le Moche posted:Why is it that all these internet anticommunist posters like nazis so much hmmm i wonder
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Jan 24, 2017 18:59
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JeffersonClay posted:I think two years is enough time for dumb leftists to realize their error but maybe not if they keep putting their fingers in their ears screaming about Bernie. yeah, we should run hillary again to show how mature we are and how committed we are to hardline centrism. the numbers support it, just as they supported her impending presidency. its obviously exogenous circumstances and not the inherent limitations of statistical analysis
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Jan 24, 2017 19:01
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JeffersonClay posted:No it was the Democratic Party that got ratfucked. Putin watergated us and then released the poo poo that would create divisions in the party. And you fell for it. And now you are trying to pretend it didn't happen. From someone who complains constantly that democrats refuse to learn from our mistakes in the election, that's pretty absurd. I'd still hate Clinton even without the Podesta leaks so I was hardly tricked. Tell me, was her support for NAFTA and TPP a Russian lie? How about the crime bill that resulted in the largest prison population on earth? Or how about Bill's secret plan with Newt Gingrich to privatize Social Security? Did Putin make the Democrats spend the last thirty years stabbing the labor movement in the back? And what about all the other elections Democrats have lost lately? Is Putin behind those too?
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Jan 24, 2017 19:02
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JeffersonClay posted:I think two years is enough time for dumb leftists to realize their error but maybe not if they keep putting their fingers in their ears screaming about Bernie. You also thought Hillary would win though  Besides, you said this was an addressable endogenous issue, but it's not if you're just waiting for people to see things your way. It's p obvious at this point you're trying to distract from actual, solvable issues so you can feel better about abuela's amazing loss to the fascist orange, so I'm gonna just leave you to your whining about traitorous leftists 
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Jan 24, 2017 19:02
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The weird thing here is that if Russia, of all possible countries, is trying to rig the election against you, how do you manage to not turn that into a point in your favour?
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Jan 24, 2017 19:08
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readingatwork posted:I'd still hate Clinton even without the Podesta leaks so I was hardly tricked. Oh I can predict JC's response to each of the sentences in your second paragraph. 1. Show me data that the trade policies affected the election. 2. *ignores* 3. Actually LBJ cut social spending too and Bill Clinton's federal government spent more on social services. 4. The democrats of the past 30 years are no different than LBJ and FDR because they cut taxes and spending. 5. Dumb lefties being choosey cost those!
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Jan 24, 2017 19:10
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I think we can regain the support of the Democratic base by calling them neoliberal globalist shills because they voted in the primary for someone who's been a popular fixture in their political sphere for most of their adult lives. Look, Hillary wasn't a strong candidate and none of the Democratic primary candidates would have won in such a stridently anti-establishment atmosphere if that sentiment drove the electoral outcome. No joke, if "it's bad experience" worked then "you've been representing Vermont for 30 years and it still snows there" would have flown just as well. "Anyone but Hillary in 2020" is such a terrifically lovely line because she won't be running and it just drags the conversation back into the primary slapfight you've been pushing since the summer. Are you engaging with your local party and working to raise exposure of local candidates like your county assessor and city council? How about your mayor? Midterms aren't for two years but municipal and county elections often run on weird years so that's where you start. My county assessor is facing a world of poo poo because she ignored a growing housing market in the city (which covers most of the county) and the state has a law that forced revaluations of tens of thousands of properties across the county. It's nonpartisan but I'm working with an opposition candidate who is hammering her in the suburbs on the sheer incompetence of ignoring a housing boom and hammering her in the city on how it just so happened that the properties in the predominantly black part of town were habitually overvalued while the ones in the rich parts were undervalued so the assessor was literally plundering their families to subsidize an underhanded tax cut for the gated deed restricted types in their cloisters. Nobody interested in actually fixing poo poo here has time in their volunteering and doorknocking to talk the kind of poo poo y'all are about last year's beef. There's a mayoral election coming up and we've got to remind everyone about how badly the current mayor fucks up roadwork every summer and can't allocate snow ops resources to keep the city from shutting down in a couple inches of snow. The only bariatric ambulance in the city got high-centered in a string of potholes last month and last year saw possibly the most busy intersection in the city shut down by police while a snowplow came back in from the suburbs because the mayor sent two plow crews to her neighborhood out of sheer nepotism. The argument isn't hard when you actually talk to people. My county pays 2/3 of the state's income tax revenues and 3/4 of the state's property taxes. All you have to do is make these people feel like they're the only ones paying. For the farmers out west, it's acreage and sales taxes. For the city, it's improvement value and city services. Nobody opens the door and asks who I voted for in the primary because that's loving stupid but hey while you're fuming about Bernie losing the establishment shills are wearing holes in their shoes right alongside Bernie voters to actually push back the tide. Ignore whoever y'all are saying is in France, they're going to get hosed because they'll be arguing about Hollande's insufficient outreach as Le Pen seizes power. Go out and meet people, it's way easier to pigeonhole someone as the pejorative du hour when it's an internet forum but once you are shaking hands and handing out clipboards nobody even mentions Hillary.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:18
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Condiv posted:Besides, you said this was an addressable endogenous issue, but it's not if you're just waiting for people to see things your way. No im saying hey let's not get ratfucked again and y'all are denying that ever happened. quote:It's p obvious at this point you're trying to distract from actual, solvable issues so you can feel better about abuela's amazing loss to the fascist orange, so I'm gonna just leave you to your whining about traitorous leftists They weren't traitorous, just painfully naive. That's not a distraction, unless your only purpose here is to relitigate the primary and avenge St. Bernard.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:20
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JeffersonClay posted:No the problem is the left was too stupid to realize they were getting ratfucked by putin. Lemme get this straight- you think DWS was fired from her job because... they needed to appease the Bernie supporters that they constantly said wouldn't need because she was gonna win no matter what? That doesn't make any sense.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:21
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Cerebral Bore posted:The weird thing here is that if Russia, of all possible countries, is trying to rig the election against you, how do you manage to not turn that into a point in your favour? You have a bunch of backbiting leftists who call you a red baiter for even bringing it up.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:24
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JeffersonClay posted:You have a bunch of backbiting leftists who call you a red baiter for even bringing it up. Or you're a.bad candidate.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:30
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FAUXTON posted:I think we can regain the support of the Democratic base by calling them neoliberal globalist shills because they voted in the primary for someone who's been a popular fixture in their political sphere for most of their adult lives. i appreciate this effort post but i don't think "no one is allowed to discuss politics unless they're as politically involved as i am" is a valuable position to take. yes, being involved in the nitty gritty field of local politics is important and honorable. but it doesn't preclude people from discussing politics, nor is it a prerequisite for having political opinions, nor does it substantially increase the value of your opinions in comparison to non-volunteers. so basically, thank you for all your hard work that's cool and good and you're a good person for doing that. but we're currently having a debate about an event in national politics that we have been having for about 2 years now. people are still divided despite the outcome validating the position of one of the factions in the debate. once again, you're cool and good for doing what you're doing, but that doesn't give you legitimacy to try and halt this thread with a "holier than thou" argument. this thread is important because, like a couple other threads, its about determining the future of the democratic party. ellison or perez, clinton or sanders. this is all about which foot the democratic party is going to lead with and, of course, ethics in journalism edit: i really want to stress that i think what you're doing is really cool and good. its awesome that you're so involved and it would be a better world if more people were involved. so thank you for all your hard work. RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 19:33
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JeffersonClay posted:You have a bunch of backbiting leftists who call you a red baiter for even bringing it up. Assuming that these people existed, for the sake of argument, the question then becomes why you would deliberately bring it up and try to make hay of it if you were not even capable of spinning the very simplest of narratives in your favour?
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Jan 24, 2017 19:38
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Not to doxx Jefferson Clay but next time someone runs into Hillary while hiking, they should ask her if she has stairs in her house.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:38
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JeffersonClay posted:No im saying hey let's not get ratfucked again and y'all are denying that ever happened. I don't doubt russia leaked the dnc's emails, but it's not much of an issue imo (especially compared to the extremely fixable issues in the DNC or Hillary's campaign). I mean it's not like hillary lost the popular vote, just the electoral college because her brain's mush and she didn't realize she might wanna campaign in states she wants to win. quote:They weren't traitorous, just painfully naive. That's not a distraction, unless your only purpose here is to relitigate the primary and avenge St. Bernard.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:38
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Cerebral Bore posted:Assuming that these people existed, for the sake of argument, the question then becomes why you would deliberately bring it up and try to make hay of it if you were not even capable of spinning the very simplest of narratives in your favour? If Hillary was a good candidate, leftists kneecapping her primary argument against trump wouldn't have mattered. Uh huh.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:39
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