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1500quidporsche posted:I too like putting on a cassette tape of angry bees and turning the volume up to 11 while watching racing. Obligatory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
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Jan 25, 2017 17:06
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Pirate Radar posted:The requirements for each type of track are pretty different. I'm not surprised that they can fit a Formula E race into Brooklyn, but I'd be pretty surprised if they could fit an F1 track in NYC. Where would you put the runoff areas? Doesn't seem to be a problem for Monaco or Signapore? I get the point about noise though, I hadn't really considered that. I just remember when Bernie was pushing it pretty hard there were track mockups and everything.
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Jan 25, 2017 17:10
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n8r posted:The old noisy engines were 1000% better than what they are using now. 
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Jan 25, 2017 17:12
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It's classic Horner, too, because he's pandering to the "engines should be loud" crowd while actually suggesting a return to a formula his supplier doesn't suck at.
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Jan 25, 2017 17:16
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geeves posted:They're weird to us, too. We can thank the government for this malarkey. The US is one of two industrialized countries that allow direct advertisement of Rx drugs to consumers. The other is New Zealand. I mean, they could tell them to knock it off (as they did with tobacco), but pharma lobby is massive right now. I wish they would (I have no problem with direct marketing of OTC drugs because the obvious reasons). Alas, this is a convo for another place though.
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Jan 25, 2017 17:17
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wicka posted:It's classic Horner, too, because he's pandering to the "engines should be loud" crowd while actually suggesting a return to a formula his supplier doesn't suck at. It's the exact same kind of poo poo he tried pulling last year to get these rules despite everyone saying that the cars weren't going to be that much faster and overtaking would suffer and now the car is probably a dud he's mad about it. I don't have a lot of love for these new rules but Red Bull have poo poo the bed on this one and I hope the other teams make them sleep in it.
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Jan 25, 2017 17:40
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1500quidporsche posted:I too like putting on a cassette tape of angry bees and turning the volume up to 11 while watching racing.
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Jan 25, 2017 17:46
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You are all wrong, it's not angry bees it's 
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Jan 25, 2017 18:09
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I hope Donald brings back tobacco sponsorship.
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Jan 25, 2017 18:24
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learnincurve posted:You are all wrong, it's not angry bees it's Sometimes you do make good posts! (unlike myself)
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Jan 25, 2017 18:31
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wicka posted:More Brawn talk, it's all good: http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38734708 Isn't, ironically, Brawn GP evidence what he says can't happen, does?
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Jan 25, 2017 18:50
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Khablam posted:Isn't, ironically, Brawn GP evidence what he says can't happen, does? That was a Honda with a Benz motor shoehorned in.
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Jan 25, 2017 18:54
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1500quidporsche posted:I too like putting on a cassette tape of angry bees and turning the volume up to 11 while watching racing. No, further back: http://jalopnik.com/the-brm-v16-mk-2-is-nothing-but-pure-aural-pleasure-1273934656
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Jan 25, 2017 18:57
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Khablam posted:Isn't, ironically, Brawn GP evidence what he says can't happen, does? I read that as it can't happen with the engines we have now. Part of the problem imo with the engines we have now, is that no matter if they are allowed to or not, the manufacturers are able to give customers an inferior product, on a whim. Maybe doing it with the fuel or the software, it does not matter how, but it's clear that Toto was able to choose Williams, a team he partly owned, in the first year of hybrids to be the third driver on the podium team, and then when the share value was up he sold up and dropped them like a rock right back into the midfield. I like the part where Toto bought his way to three world championships in a very small space of time and the person he hosed over the worst getting to the top it is now in charge of the sport.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:18
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learnincurve posted:Part of the problem imo with the engines we have now, is that no matter if they are allowed to or not, the manufacturers are able to give customers an inferior product, on a whim. Maybe doing it with the fuel or the software, it does not matter how, but it's clear that Toto was able to choose Williams, a team he partly owned, in the first year of hybrids to be the third driver on the podium team, and then when the share value was up he sold up and dropped them like a rock right back into the midfield. wrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong Williams were great in the first year of the new engines because that's when Mercedes' advantage was at its greatest. They started to fall back when the other engine manufacturers closed the gap and the flaws in their chassis became more and more obvious.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:25
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Khablam posted:Isn't, ironically, Brawn GP evidence what he says can't happen, does? Not even close. That's nearly a decade of Honda throwing money at a project, capitulating and Brawn chucking the best of the V8 formula engines in it. Meanwhile, actual underdogs like HRT, Marussia and Caterham are pretty much dead and buried because they simply cannot compete.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:36
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There's very little doubt in my mind that if Honda had stayed in the sport we probably would've seen 4-5 consecutive WCCs from them. Brawn has said that 2010 was the year he was expecting Honda to take the championship.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:43
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I dont really have the rose-tinted glasses from the v8 era that a lot of you do. Sure the noise was better, but they felt a whole lot more generic, like a NASCAR-style "they are mostly the same except for the stickers" thing. This of course after renault totally hosed up the spec when it first came out, and had to whine and threaten to pull out before the FIA let them do "Reliability" mods. What i want from f1 is completely different designs duking it out with completely different results, and this V6 turbo era does that better than the V10 or V8 eras. They just hosed up their ability to fix their fuckups with the dumb token system.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:46
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In Khablam's defense: the double diffuser concept was actually created by Super Aguri. 2009 would've been the first year they were required to build their own car, which they started work on in 2007. Had they somehow found the funding to stay alive through 2008 and into 2009, we could be talking about Sato or Ant as the surprise world champion, which is indeed the exact scenario Brawn describes. Instead, they went bankrupt, their engineers ended up at Honda and Toyota, and that's how Brawn, Toyota, and Williams ended up with the double diffuser.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:53
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MattD1zzl3 posted:What i want from f1 is completely different designs duking it out with completely different results, and this V6 turbo era does that better than the V10 or V8 eras. They just hosed up their ability to fix their fuckups with the dumb token system. It's not even that, open regs just don't force everyone down a bunch of dead ends until the right answer. Honda is a good example of that, the vee angle is fixed at 90 degrees limiting the size of turbo that could be fitted. Who knows what it would've taken to get a big enough turbo in there but it could've been something as simple as a 95 degree V but instead they have throw the whole concept down the drain and copy Mercedes.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:59
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1500quidporsche posted:There's very little doubt in my mind that if Honda had stayed in the sport we probably would've seen 4-5 consecutive WCCs from them. Brawn has said that 2010 was the year he was expecting Honda to take the championship. Absolutely. They had manufacturer money to just throw at the drat thing until it won. MattD1zzl3 posted:I dont really have the rose-tinted glasses from the v8 era that a lot of you do. Sure the noise was better, but they felt a whole lot more generic, like a NASCAR-style "they are mostly the same except for the stickers" thing. This of course after renault totally hosed up the spec when it first came out, and had to whine and threaten to pull out before the FIA let them do "Reliability" mods. V8 engines sound better than turbo charged V6 engines. That is a simple matter of fact. What you're confusing is an engine configuration with the end of an era where practically all aero, mechanical and engine development had been done and there was nothing left to tap. They had minimised every conceivable car variable (tyre manufacturers and refuelling) so it then becomes an aero formula. This is exactly where F1 is headed now that they've removed the stupid token system on engine development and given more freedom to aero development. As much as it pains me to agree with him, Hamilton is right that aero development won't make races more exciting. Opening the development wars up to mechanical grip is what will make it more interesting. Aero is great if you're the car out front and it loving sucks if you're behind another racer; in that scenario, you want your tyres biting into the tarmac so you can hang it round the outside and get the pass made.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:14
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Theophany posted:Absolutely. They had manufacturer money to just throw at the drat thing until it won. The turbo V6 engines would sound much better if they were able to rev them at higher RPM.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:35
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Theophany posted:Hamilton is right that aero development won't make races more exciting.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:55
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Theophany posted:Not even close. That's nearly a decade of Honda throwing money at a project, capitulating and Brawn chucking the best of the V8 formula engines in it. Meanwhile, actual underdogs like HRT, Marussia and Caterham are pretty much dead and buried because they simply cannot compete. when were teams like that able to compete
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Jan 25, 2017 22:29
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Alain Post posted:when were teams like that able to compete I don't know, why don't you ask Ferrari who sucked up all the money for the teams.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:41
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yeah clearly Caterham would be winning races if it weren't for Ferrari
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Jan 25, 2017 22:43
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Alain Post posted:when were teams like that able to compete The DFV era (67-82) and some of the turbo and 3.5L era. You sometimes had 0 budget teams like Theodore, Ensign and AGS occasionally able to pull good results. Perhaps my definition of "compete" is different.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:43
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that was mainly because reliability was so bad that if you finished you probably had a shot at points
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Jan 25, 2017 22:44
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You'd see the odd team like shadow or ligier completely punch above its weight in the 70s, but you're never going to recreate the sort of conditions that allow stuff like that to happen now.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:44
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Ligier had shitloads of funding because Guy Ligier had the prime minister's ear and got the state tobacco and oil industries to sponsor his team.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:46
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Ligier doesn't really count because Guy Ligier basically had government backing.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:47
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Alain Post posted:Ligier had shitloads of funding because Guy Ligier had the prime minister's ear and got the state tobacco and oil industries to sponsor his team. He was personal friends with Mitterrand. That's kinda cool.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:48
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I have a poor grasp of the 70s French motorsport landscape.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:49
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It actually doesn't have much to do with Motorsport. Ligier's paving company got a bunch of contracts to do the new Expressway network and he used those same connections when he went racing.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:52
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Alain Post posted:when were teams like that able to compete We've never seen any type of equal distribution of the TV rights money, at least not the massive amount of revenue the sport generates today. The scenario Brawn describes, one in which those funds are distributed equitably, is not comparable to any past era of F1.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:53
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I need to get my hands on a pack of Gitanes before they go away. French government wants to get rid of the old brands because they're too "glamorous".
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Jan 25, 2017 22:53
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Also, question, where would Ferrari be today if they didn't get Schumi?
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Jan 25, 2017 22:58
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I guess Renault pre-85 was also a state run team. Alfa too.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:58
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There was a time when even the back alley garbage can of a team known as McLaren won races, but no more, way to go Ferrari
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Jan 25, 2017 23:03
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:There was a time when even the back alley garbage can of a team known as McLaren won races, but no more, way to go Ferrari I heard they did it with this Lewis Hamilton guy, too!
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Jan 25, 2017 23:05
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