|
JeffersonClay posted:Like I said, ratfucked and proud of it. I'd get angry at your willful ignorance but honestly your callous indifference to principles in the name of winning at all costs makes my argument better than I ever could. Do you really not realize how craven and contemptible this attitude makes the Democratic party look?
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 16:03 |
|
|
I don't think "ratfucked" is the correct term for what Putin(???) did to leftists. It is, however, the correct term for what Clinton did to leftists.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
Democrats lost because the people running the campaign are the kind that would fall for a basic phishing trick while simultaneously entrusting where to put campaign resources to a discount version of Deep Blue built into a used dishwasher
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:15
|
|
|
Rodatose posted:Democrats lost because the people running the campaign are the kind that would fall for a basic phishing trick while simultaneously entrusting where to put campaign resources to a discount version of Deep Blue built into a used dishwasher And coincidentally also the same people who would get so full of themselves that they openly wrote off a hell of a lot of potential voters as unnecessary to win only to turn around and blame their loss on the same people after the fact.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
readingatwork posted:I'd get angry at your willful ignorance but honestly your callous indifference to principles in the name of winning at all costs makes my argument better than I ever could. Do you really not realize how craven and contemptible this attitude makes the Democratic party look? In the case of Democratic politicians I can understand it - if they lose an election it's better to do so in a way that avoids too much embarrassment since the gravy train after holding office depends on this somewhat. For anyone else though there's no reason to give a poo poo other than they've somehow absorbed the culture of the Democratic establishment and all the stupidity (but none of the benefits) that entails.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
The most obvious evidence that Clinton was a bad candidate and a bad politician is that no sane person expects her to be a leading figure in the Democratic Party going forward, or even wants her to. Everyone knows she just wanted to be president.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:47
|
|
|
logger posted:And what happened to Donna Brazile because she was willing to cheat for Hillary? Hillary as the de-facto head of the Democratic Party gave her a cushy job as the DNC chair. Do you not see how the Democratic Party could be seen as corrupt and how that would register with voters, or is it just fine for you because it was your side that did the cheating? Having these racist thoughts means that your vote doesn't count, of course!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
So we are still whining and blathering about the "corrupt" (yawn) DNC. Maybe you should go check out the five leaked executive orders today and get some perspective.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:09
|
|
|
Y'all are like these absentee fathers who show up in their kid's life 20 years in demanding answers for why you share nothing in common. Surprise, the Democratic party listened to their voters lol.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
So once again Jimmy Dore nails it. This time with Thomas Frank! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9u2aR19P3g The part towards the end on NAFTA is particularly relevant.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:23
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Y'all are like these absentee fathers who show up in their kid's life 20 years in demanding answers for why you share nothing in common. Surprise, the Democratic party listened to their
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Y'all are like these absentee fathers who show up in their kid's life 20 years in demanding answers for why you share nothing in common. Surprise, the Democratic party listened to their voters lol. And their current positions lost them the election. Maybe if they want to win they should entice more voters?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
got any sevens posted:And their current positions lost them the election. Maybe if they want to win they should entice more voters? That's what they do every election though, which is why they keep getting dragged to the right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Y'all are like these absentee fathers who show up in their kid's life 20 years in demanding answers for why you share nothing in common. Surprise, the Democratic party listened to their voters lol. More like showing up to your 20th highschool reunion. There's barely anyone there and the ones that are still think it's the 90s.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Y'all are like these absentee fathers who show up in their kid's life 20 years in demanding answers for why you share nothing in common. Surprise, the Democratic party listened to their voters lol. And the disingenuous argument of the week award goes to...
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:That's what they do every election though, which is why they keep getting dragged to the right. Why is there a supposed rightwards shift in the American electorate? My guess is it's the cumulative effect of 20-30 or so years of abandoning any mention of leftism in the education system and media, having no real counterbalance to the right's targeting of the education system and setting up a new conservative media apparatus. The third way, in embracing private-public partnerships, resulted in criticism of privitization and militant imperialism being largely removed from journalistic media, and the history for why there's a need for regulations against business and a separation of church and state going untaught. Voucher schools are desirable to rich liberals who don't want their children to mix with the crass masses, so they might have dragged their feet a bit in fighting segregationist fundamentalist types who want to be able to make sure their children learn young earth creationism. Likewise, in seeing corporate news media as an avenue to move products and avoid stories that might upset their corporate, police and military partners, they lose sight of journalistic media's function as a public service - something acting as a safeguard against entrenched power. Of course, that assumes that the entire populace is being "dragged to the right", which it isn't; instead I think that the sides are polarizing due to the Washington Consensus's failure to provide tangible, lasting solutions to the recent problems of war and a major economic crisis with both parties. The right has intensified and its party acts accordingly; the democratic party has failed to provide an adequate vision or leadership to take advantage of changing times. It's not the 90s anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 02:54
|
|
|
Rodatose posted:Why is there a supposed rightwards shift in the American electorate? My guess is it's the cumulative effect of 20-30 or so years of abandoning any mention of leftism in the education system and media, having no real counterbalance to the right's targeting of the education system and setting up a new conservative media apparatus. The third way, in embracing private-public partnerships, resulted in criticism of privitization and militant imperialism being largely removed from journalistic media, and the history for why there's a need for regulations against business and a separation of church and state going untaught. The right votes in primaries and midterms.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
I might vote in midterms if the dems pandered to the populist left wing at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 03:44
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:The right votes in primaries and midterms. Does the Democratic Party have no ability to change state primary rules that make registration and voting easier? And if the right has polarized, why would they bother voting for a Democratic party that tries moving rightward when the red meat is being offered by their own party? We just saw that "two moderate republicans" won't vote for Democrats in even a general election.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 03:46
|
|
|
got any sevens posted:I might vote in midterms if the dems pandered to the populist left wing at all. They might pander if they got primaried.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 03:59
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:They might pander if they got primaried. Pretty much everyone in this thread thinks that we need more and better primary candidates so I'm not sure what you're point is other than to cynically blame voters for their own party stabbing them in the back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:02
|
|
|
got any sevens posted:I might vote in midterms if the dems pandered to the populist left wing at all. "Everything I care about politically is about to be overturned or destroyed, but I won't vote Democrat unless they make me feel warm and fuzzy."
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:05
|
|
|
readingatwork posted:Pretty much everyone in this thread thinks that we need more and better primary candidates so I'm not sure what you're point is other than to cynically blame voters for their own party stabbing them in the back. Oh I can't wait to hear how the Bernie/Hillary bullshit is in no way this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:13
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:"Everything I care about politically is about to be overturned or destroyed, but I won't vote Democrat unless they make me feel warm and fuzzy." So you better start loving churning out people that make others feel warm and fuzzy if you want to have any influence in politics
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:So you better start loving churning out people that make others feel warm and fuzzy if you want to have any influence in politics You'd better start backing them and voting for them in primaries then. Nobody's going to loving do it for you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:17
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:"Everything I care about politically is about to be overturned or destroyed, but I won't vote Democrat unless they make me feel warm and fuzzy." Basically accurate. FAUXTON posted:Oh I can't wait to hear how the Bernie/Hillary bullshit is in no way this. Bernie voters for the most part voted for Hillary. She lost because Democrats in the rust belt stayed home. Edit: Also because she's an idiot that didn't campaign in key states because she was trying to pull off some half-assed House of Cards poo poo. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jan 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:33
|
|
|
I vote in every election, every loving election dipshit. Too bad my choices are between the same poo poo heads. My my local party just had the same names for being both the Democrat and the Republican. Why should I vote for that loving person. You want to pissed about the left demanding change go ahead, but you're strategy is a losing one. How many states do Democrats control? Maybe the problem isn't the voters
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:33
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:That's what they do every election though, which is why they keep getting dragged to the right. Ah, the argument that leads to the Democrats supporting censoring video games, supporting the police state and racist dog whistels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
Anyone see a last of the Democrats that have voted for our against Trump's Cabinet? I heard NY senator Gillibrand voted against them all (least I have one good Senator) and California's Dianne Feinstein voted for them all
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:53
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:Anyone see a last of the Democrats that have voted for our against Trump's Cabinet? I heard NY senator Gillibrand voted against them all (least I have one good Senator) and California's Dianne Feinstein voted for them all Don't primary the collaborators as punishment or anything, wouldn't want fear of consequences getting in the way of their rightward slide.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 04:57
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Lol this is a pathetic attempt to rewrite history. Trump talked about gutting regulations, not making new ones. He talked about privatizing public works and services. He talked about cutting corporate taxes. You can't pretend these things didn't happen. This is why people, not computer algorithms, should set the tone during elections.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 05:11
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:This is why people, not computer algorithms, should set the tone during elections. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 05:16
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Don't primary the collaborators as punishment or anything, wouldn't want fear of consequences getting in the way of their rightward slide. Yup totally an argument I've made. Don't pressure for any change. I thought you were the one crying about how Democrats have to appeal to voters
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 05:45
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:Yup totally an argument I've made. Don't pressure for any change. I thought you were the one crying about how Democrats have to appeal to voters "This self-imposed irrelevance will surely get their attention!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 05:52
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:"This self-imposed irrelevance will surely get their attention!" Yup doing what they're doing right now sure has the Democrats in secure positions of power. Why bother appealing to voters, gently caress them they can win without them right
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 05:59
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:"Everything I care about politically is about to be overturned or destroyed, but I won't vote Democrat unless they make me feel warm and fuzzy." perhaps the reason everything is about to be destroyed is because it was built so shoddily, so reluctantly with only the minimum enthusiasm required to slip it through that the first guy that came around that wanted to knock it all down could do it with virtually minimal effort. it took decades to dismantle the New Deal, but literally only hours to undo all of Obama's legacy and the legacy of the New Democrats that sounds to me like lovely policy from a milquetoast party that is hamstrung by donors and voters having conflicting expectations resulting in piss-poor compromises that neither please nor inspire anyone. if you build your house out of straw, the big bad wolf ain't gonna have any trouble blowing that poo poo down.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 06:02
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:Anyone see a last of the Democrats that have voted for our against Trump's Cabinet? I heard NY senator Gillibrand voted against them all (least I have one good Senator) and California's Dianne Feinstein voted for them all Gillibrand voted in favor of Haley for UN Ambassador. Every senator, including independents, have voted yes for at least one nominee.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 08:25
|
|
|
Trump came in with even less of a mandate and congressional support than Obama and has already accomplished more appreciable, understandable destruction in 5 days than Obama built up in 8 years. "Just get back in power when the backlash happens". Then what? What would the Democrats even do with the power they are given? Hillary Clinton lost for a variety of reasons, but the one she shares with the party over the last two decades is that nobody could articulate what kind of society they wanted to build. There is no vision beyond being a middle manager, a simple steward for the current status quo that has been shaped by unchallenged GOP ideology and action from over 30 years ago. Every time the right condemned the country to a hypercapitalist hell, the Dems adopted the new conditions as the new normal, the new baseline rather than acknowledging the shift at all. The Bernie dems voted for Clinton in the general at a rate higher than Clinton dead-enders did in 2008. Trump did worse than Romney. The mysterious gap and atrophy in the Obama coalition are the ones who brought Trump the presidency, but instead of trying to figure out why those voters stayed home the Dem leadership wants to blame them to avoid the reality of their own situation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 10:15
|
|
|
readingatwork posted:Basically accurate. Your argument is based on one study that only counted Bernie supporters who voted in the primaries, was not broken down by age in an election where far more millennials voted third party than in 2012, and has a comment section filled with Bernouts screaming that the study is total horse poo poo. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/25/the-democratic-convention-is-chaotic-the-democratic-base-isnt
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 11:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 16:03 |
|
|
SaTaMaS posted:Your argument is based on one study that only counted Bernie supporters who voted in the primaries, was not broken down by age in an election where far more millennials voted third party than in 2012, and has a comment section filled with Bernouts screaming that the study is total horse poo poo. Your argument, by comparison, is based on nothing more than your gut feeling that the left must be to blame for Hillary Clinton deciding campaigning in the Rust Belt was for losers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 18:08
|
|