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Did Cena's rise to the top start the trend of the heel announcers opposing every face except for the top baby face? I seem to remember King hated Austin/Rock no matter who they were against, in contrast to JBL/Corey's, "you gotta respect the BIG DOG" while otherwise just defending whatever tactics the heel uses.
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Jan 26, 2017 19:17
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Tweak posted:Did Cena's rise to the top start the trend of the heel announcers opposing every face except for the top baby face? I seem to remember King hated Austin/Rock no matter who they were against, in contrast to JBL/Corey's, "you gotta respect the BIG DOG" while otherwise just defending whatever tactics the heel uses. It was really only to try and combat the rising tide of hate from male fans. Before that, Jesse Ventura would sometimes compliment babyfaces that could wrestle like Bret Hart
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Jan 26, 2017 20:13
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What wrestlers actually did a good job of changing their whole persona when going from face to heel or vice-versa? It seems like a lot of guys, including many good wrestlers, are really 99% the same character before and after turning.
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Jan 26, 2017 21:01
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sean10mm posted:What wrestlers actually did a good job of changing their whole persona when going from face to heel or vice-versa? It seems like a lot of guys, including many good wrestlers, are really 99% the same character before and after turning. Jericho in 2008, to the point where a number of WWE heels tried to copy him to no success.
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Jan 26, 2017 21:03
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Nut Bunnies posted:It was really only to try and combat the rising tide of hate from male fans. Before that, Jesse Ventura would sometimes compliment babyfaces that could wrestle like Bret Hart I think Jesse's a outlier because Heenan would mostly make jokes and such. But Jesse was a bit more nuanced, and you could tell when he really liked/respected somebody, alignment aside. Although Heenan would do that in WCW later on...But that was probably more because Bobby no longer cared.
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Jan 26, 2017 21:06
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sean10mm posted:What wrestlers actually did a good job of changing their whole persona when going from face to heel or vice-versa? It seems like a lot of guys, including many good wrestlers, are really 99% the same character before and after turning. the rock v rocky maivia
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Jan 26, 2017 21:10
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Max Coveri posted:Jericho in 2008, to the point where a number of WWE heels tried to copy him to no success. Miz copied him straight to the main event of WrestleMania despite not being particularly good or over.
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Jan 26, 2017 21:20
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Jack Swagger being made to be a Jericho clone was poor as well
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Jan 26, 2017 22:07
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I think Jesse's a outlier because Heenan would mostly make jokes and such. But Jesse was a bit more nuanced, and you could tell when he really liked/respected somebody, alignment aside. Although Heenan would do that in WCW later on...But that was probably more because Bobby no longer cared. Bobby Heenan had a pretty amazing run of ALWAYS hating Hulk Hogan. The night that the NWO took over Nitro (as in they literally replaced all the WCW logos with NWO ones and completely derailed a show) Heenan tried to curry favor with the NWO so he wouldn't lose his job. They asked him a series of questions and he just readily agreed to all of them with no regard for his dignity. Then they asked him if he agreed that Hulk Hogan was the greatest Champion of all time and you see Bobby just freeze for a moment as he has to fight his natural instincts, eventually spitting out an agreement  Nut Bunnies posted:Jack Swagger being made to be a Jericho clone was poor as well Yeah any chance he might have had died there. It just didn't work at all 
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Jan 26, 2017 22:10
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Best entrance theme featuring a saxophone? Many would say Val Venis, but I'm here to tell you that they are wrong and the answer is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdSFkbrKfq4
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Jan 26, 2017 22:32
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Great Power Uti
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Jan 27, 2017 00:15
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Best entrance theme featuring a saxophone? This isn't a link to the Baker Street remix Shocker used.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:01
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i was just about to post this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ-ta01KGBk
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Jan 27, 2017 01:20
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Best entrance theme featuring a saxophone? That might be the best if Ravishing Rick Rude‘s didn't exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaBPCNM17w Alain Post posted:i was just about to post this I've heard this one on many an episode of Top Gear.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:27
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Ghostpilot posted:That might be the best if Ravishing Rick Rude‘s didn't exist. that's actually jeremy clarkson
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Jan 27, 2017 04:35
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TV Zombie posted:So Road Dogg helped write/wrote SDL last night, is that true? Where is Ryan Ward? Is he off of SDL now? OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW!?
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Jan 27, 2017 05:33
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Alain Post posted:i was just about to post this and here's the second best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvhnpo9yPoQ
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Jan 27, 2017 10:17
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Watching wrestling again after about 15 years and I'm wondering why there aren't many stables around in WWE? I guess partially it's covered by Smackdown/Raw but that comes out once a year.
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Jan 29, 2017 23:07
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King Faraday posted:Watching wrestling again after about 15 years and I'm wondering why there aren't many stables around in WWE? Stables require consistent booking and three or four people on the roster who aren't total chumps.
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Jan 30, 2017 05:36
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King Faraday posted:Watching wrestling again after about 15 years and I'm wondering why there aren't many stables around in WWE? Theres' a lot more focus on individual guys or tag teams, instead of having groups of 3+ where it kinda of gets muddled. The only time someone gets a stable and it lasts is if there's some solid plans (even if it is just to build Bray up to lose yet again at Wrestlemania) Even though the number is really small, there has also been kind a run of actual stables where they've been really goddamned strong to the point of being somewhat detrimental to everyone else over the last 3-5 years. The Shield beat everyone, and now the 3 members are top guys in the company. The Wyatts beat everyone, except the Shield, and they're around, though they exist to build Bray up (though he really needs his big win like 2 years ago). Then there was the New Day, who beat every tag team on the roster repeatedly and set the longest tag team run in company history. (They legitimately broke Demolition's old record form the 80s) Plus most of the heel stables outside of the 3 have more or less been some sort of authority figure which kinda blurs together after a while.
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Jan 30, 2017 06:04
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Both of those make sense, thank you! I was just a stark comparison after watching Wrestle Kingdom 11 and seeing the GIANT stables they seemed to have there.
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Jan 30, 2017 06:30
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King Faraday posted:Watching wrestling again after about 15 years and I'm wondering why there aren't many stables around in WWE? Stables are more of a Russo thing.
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Jan 30, 2017 06:35
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King Faraday posted:Both of those make sense, thank you! Japanese wrestling stables are a bit different. They often like to organize guys into really loose stable or sub brands that mostly to tell you what flavor of wrestler that guy is. Also in a lot of Japanese companies their reaction to "what do we do with this guy who wrestles like one match a month but is still being paid by us?" is "toss him in a stable with five other dudes like him!" Lucha, especially AAA, on the other hand is big on powerful stables. They like their groups of 3-6 dudes that absolutely dominate a part of the company for prolonged periods of time. AAA for the past fifteen years has basically been at WCW levels of stabledom.
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Jan 30, 2017 07:51
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Japanese wrestling stables are a bit different. They often like to organize guys into really loose stable or sub brands that mostly to tell you what flavor of wrestler that guy is. Also in a lot of Japanese companies their reaction to "what do we do with this guy who wrestles like one match a month but is still being paid by us?" is "toss him in a stable with five other dudes like him!" Oh, that explains why the entire roster (of a PPV) was in one of the stables. I just really dug them putting in the own version of their stable logos (especially Cody). El Estrago Bonito posted:Lucha, especially AAA, on the other hand is big on powerful stables. They like their groups of 3-6 dudes that absolutely dominate a part of the company for prolonged periods of time. AAA for the past fifteen years has basically been at WCW levels of stabledom. I've been meaning to get in to Lucha, I hear Lucha Underground is a good/ridiculous time.
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Jan 30, 2017 07:59
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King Faraday posted:Oh, that explains why the entire roster (of a PPV) was in one of the stables. Don't let MassRafTer hear you calling Lucha Underground Lucha, he'll bust a gasket. He wouldn't be wrong though, LU isn't really a good indicator of what "real," Lucha as practiced by AAA and CMLL are. Its an action/adventure/scifi TV series that uses a Lucha-inspired Pro Wrestling Fed/Underground Fighting Ring as a framing device to tell its story.
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Jan 30, 2017 08:05
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Sanguinia posted:Don't let MassRafTer hear you calling Lucha Underground Lucha, he'll bust a gasket. I was misled by the name! But, fair. I've only been getting back in to wrestling the last few months. Totally appreciate WWE showing me why fans hate Roman Reigns when I was pumped for a Joe entrance.
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Jan 30, 2017 09:49
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Yeah, Lucha Underground is what happens when Robert Rodriguez produces a wrestling show and sets it more or less in the universe of his movies. And it owns. Catch up if you can, but be patient - the first 7-8 episodes are mostly character introduction and setup. Then their version of the Royal Rumble happens to introduce the title and poo poo gets gradually more and more crazy from there, until before you know it there are time traveling spacemen and immortal gods and skeleton wizards.
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Jan 30, 2017 12:12
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Corzaa posted:Stables are more of a Russo thing. what on earth
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Jan 30, 2017 13:04
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King Faraday posted:Oh, that explains why the entire roster (of a PPV) was in one of the stables. if you want a chance to watch some Lucha, I like to recommend the CMLL Friday show It streams online for free - http://www.clarosports.com/en-vivo02/ CMLL posts their cards a week in advance here: http://cmll.com/?p=2976 (Click Viernes) this week, the main event should be pretty good, it has two of CMLL's top technicos Volador and Atlantis teaming with Diaman Azul against Los Ingobernables (The Ungovernables).  King Faraday posted:I was misled by the name! There really wasn't a good reason to hate Roman before this Rumble tbh. Most people are carrying forward a 2ish year grudge that's kind of metastasized, because the company wanted to put him in the Main Event of Wrestlemania and carry the company as a top babyaface ala Rock or Stone Cold instead of Daniel Bryan, who was returning from severe neck injury. They got especially bitter after Bryan had to stop wrestling shortly after Wrestlemania and eventually retired about 10 months later because WWE doctors wouldn't let him wrestle again in their ring because of concussions to the point where people were inventing literal conspiracy theories about why they were holding Bryan back that among other things included Will Smith movies. It's kind of snowballed from trying to book him in otherwise rational babyface angles against what is irrational hate. Hell, they even pushed him down the card and booked other babyfaces to be better than him and people still boo him.
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Jan 30, 2017 14:45
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exploded mummy posted:if you want a chance to watch some Lucha, I like to recommend the CMLL Friday show Plus while Mascara Año 2000 is garbage the young Dinamitas (shoot brothers Sanson and Cuatrero plus their cousin Forastrero who isn't booked) are good and the Relampago(lighting) match between Cavernario and Titan should be really fun. If you didn't know a lightning match refers to a 1 fall match with a 10 minute time limit. All other CMLL matches are 2/3 falls. The thing that tends to throw off new viewers is the rules in trios matches. Every trio will have a captain named before the match starts. A fall ends when either the captain is pinned/submitted or the two other guys are pinned/submitted.
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Jan 30, 2017 15:19
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Thauros posted:Plus while Mascara Año 2000 is garbage the young Dinamitas (shoot brothers Sanson and Cuatrero plus their cousin Forastrero who isn't booked) are good and the Relampago(lighting) match between Cavernario and Titan should be really fun. If you didn't know a lightning match refers to a 1 fall match with a 10 minute time limit. All other CMLL matches are 2/3 falls. Don't forget about Tirantes.
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Jan 30, 2017 15:27
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Spermgod posted:what on earth Nation of Domination, DOA, Los Boricuas, the Corporation, the Ministry, the Corporate Ministry, The Union, PMS, the Filthy Animals, Misfits in Action, Main Event Mafia, Immortal, SEX, shall I go on?
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Jan 30, 2017 15:38
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Karmine posted:Nation of Domination, DOA, Los Boricuas, the Corporation, the Ministry, the Corporate Ministry, The Union, PMS, the Filthy Animals, Misfits in Action, Main Event Mafia, Immortal, SEX, shall I go on? You forgot DX, the Millionaires Club and New Blood. (Though WCW had long running factions even before Russo got involved)
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Jan 30, 2017 15:51
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What was the original idea behind the Nation of Domination? I know that the second incarnation was a serious black power stable, and then the third was more of a "Bunch of black dudes (and Owen) led by the Rock" but what about the first? Farooq, Savio Vega, and Crush? Were the latter two supposed to be sympathetic to the black power movement? And if so, the implications of them leaving the group to form their own racial gangs is even worse.
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Jan 30, 2017 16:01
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Pope Corky the IX posted:What was the original idea behind the Nation of Domination? I know that the second incarnation was a serious black power stable, and then the third was more of a "Bunch of black dudes (and Owen) led by the Rock" but what about the first? Farooq, Savio Vega, and Crush? Were the latter two supposed to be sympathetic to the black power movement? And if so, the implications of them leaving the group to form their own racial gangs is even worse. If memory serves it was just sort of a group of heels (three wrestlers and about a million lackeys) with a black panther kind of motif and then when it was just black guys in the group it became an actual black power group, complete with every dumbass straw man "maybe it's YOU who is the real racist!" trope you could possibly apply to it. And then a bunch of white guys came out in blackface to make fun of them and THEY were the babyfaces! Goddamn wrestling is bad.
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Jan 30, 2017 16:17
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Do any current wrestlers use a Death Valley Driver as a finisher? (No, not the Attitude Adjuster), or the Northern Lights Bomb? Two of my favorite ever moves, but they seem to have fallen out of popularity, or been replaced by worse looking variations.
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Jan 30, 2017 17:52
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Danny Maff uses the Burning Hammer
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Jan 30, 2017 17:55
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Spuckuk posted:Do any current wrestlers use a Death Valley Driver as a finisher? (No, not the Attitude Adjuster), or the Northern Lights Bomb? Meiko Satomura.
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Jan 30, 2017 18:15
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People who watched during the New Gen. How did the Diesel push feel? Similar or worse than the Roman push?
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Jan 30, 2017 19:15
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OldTennisCourt posted:People who watched during the New Gen. How did the Diesel push feel? Similar or worse than the Roman push? Diesel's push seemed more organic over the long haul, even if it seemed to come out of nowhere.
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Jan 30, 2017 20:12
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