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Is Communism good? This poll is closed. |
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375 | 66.25% |
| No |
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191 | 33.75% |
| Total: | 523 votes | ||
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hakimashou posted:The struggle for communism is like a person who believes that if he manages to saw all his own arms and legs off with a chainsaw, he will sprout wings and be able to fly like a bird, and then blames the ultimate failure of his project on his inability to saw off that last arm. This is a good analogy. The last arm being the arm of the state. 
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Jan 26, 2017 23:33
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The struggle for capitalism is like a person who believes that if they follow the rules and work really hard to make their rich bosses even more rich, they'll be rewarded with success and happiness, and then when they are old and don't have enough money to retire and the bank forecloses on their mortgage and they start dying of a preventable disease because Trump is president they blame their failure on leftists and foreigners, and are like "if only I had made more posts defending capitalism on somethingawful".
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Jan 26, 2017 23:46
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Turns out that socialism is the worst form of government, excepting all others that have been tried.
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Jan 26, 2017 23:52
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Patrick Spens posted:If you pay people based on hours worked rather than what they actually accomplish you will incentivize slacking off, and also don't provide a good reason to make work more efficient. Like, lots of people get paid an hourly wage, but the money for that still comes from someone being willing to buy the product or service they are providing. You mean the problem most office jobs have where the employers are being payed to browse reddit and masturbate in the bathroom? Hmm, how do employers solve that now again? I answered this in the other post answering a question just like this, just like in every other job on the planet, your output will be tracked and compared. Slacking of will lead too consequences, including dismissal. If the entire workplace is under performing, questions will be asked. OtherworldlyInvader posted:If the computer chip factory forces all its new hires to work the graveyard shift for an indefinite period of time, and also pays the same rate as every other employer, how does it get workers when they can instead choose to work in a shoe factory which only operates during the day? Here, you are very fond of questions aren't you? I've answered quite a lot of yours, here, have some back. Why are people trapped in meaningless jobs that they hate? Why does a large part of the third world work 12 hour shifts making electronics for westerners? Why is so much research focused on curing baldness and impotence rather then malaria prevention? Why has wages stayed flat for the last 40 years while productivity has doubled? Why are the worlds nations so powerless to act to face a very real climate threat? Why does the economy crash and burn like a dumpster fire every 4-10 years or so? Is that really the signs of a healthy and sane economic system? Why are the socialist economies slowly but surely dismantling their welfare systems? White Rock fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 00:47
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hakimashou posted:The struggle for communism is like a person who believes that if he manages to saw all his own arms and legs off with a chainsaw, he will sprout wings and be able to fly like a bird, and then blames the ultimate failure of his project on his inability to saw off that last arm. Isn't this basically a perfect metaphor for temporarily-embarrassed millionaires who believe they're so close to hitting it big.
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Jan 27, 2017 00:51
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Tesseraction posted:Isn't this basically a perfect metaphor for temporarily-embarrassed millionaires who believe they're so close to hitting it big. It's almost as ironic as the idea that humans are selfish by nature and motivated by personal gain being used to defend an economic system that relies on the vast majority of people working for somebody else.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:02
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Socialism just changes the someone else. Let's not pretend large democratic institutes are particularly empowering And we're already in one.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:12
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turns out anticommunists just secretly hate democracy, wow shocking i know
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Jan 27, 2017 01:16
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Bob le Moche posted:turns out anticommunists just secretly hate democracy, wow shocking i know Power shouldn't come from a democratic institution, it should flow from capital. I think we can all agree that wealthy individuals who own businesses should be in charge. Frankly anything that tries to fix that is exactly the same as North Korea.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:25
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I don't and think the same of Marxists who don't think democracy can stand up against capitalist power. If it can't dreams of democratic communism are certainly hosed.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:25
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asdf32 posted:I don't and think the same of Marxists who don't think democracy can stand up against capitalist power. If it can't dreams of democratic communism are certainly hosed. democracy standing up to capitalist power is what we marxists call "the revolution"
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Jan 27, 2017 01:29
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:How do you meet efficiency/quality/safety standards having all your experienced workers on one shift, and all the fresh hires on another? i don't know, why don't you ask any number of unionized workplaces that decide things like this based on seniority how they function. you can start with ford
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Jan 27, 2017 01:30
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Bob le Moche posted:democracy standing up to capitalist power is what we marxists call "the revolution" Frankly if your state ideology doesn't magically protect you from the CIA and/or military intervention from every liberal world power then it's clearly a lost cause and we should surrender to whatever system effectively dominates my life currently.
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Jan 27, 2017 01:31
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Bob le Moche posted:democracy standing up to capitalist power is what we marxists call "the revolution" No it's not and it's something communism needs to figure out. The problem isn't hypothetical, communisms biggest failure was its complete inability to hold the elite in check with the result that the population had zero real control over the means of production. Far less than a first world capitalist citizen with a responsive consumer market and functioning democracy.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:02
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asdf32 posted:No it's not and it's something communism needs to figure out. lol
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Jan 27, 2017 02:12
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asdf32 posted:No it's not and it's something communism needs to figure out. Didn't I mention earlier that under capitalism 3.5 billion people worldwide are collectively poorer than the richest 8 people? Also you're doing that dumb thing where you conflate "communism" with 20th century marxist-leninist (and offshoot) regimes as if that one singular authoritarian current of revolutionary socialist thought is representative of all radical left wing practice.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:17
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Communism is basically an amalgamation of all the bad things people have ever come up with. All the incomprehensibly evil genocide of Naziism, all the violent brutality of the Inquisition, the horrors of slavery, the injustice of vicious political repression, the totalitarian police state. It really is the worst thing people have ever thought up.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:19
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Communism is a ridiculous pipe dream that true believer think would work if only every single person involved with really really tried (despite the fact the vast majority of people don't want to, and do better in life if they don't). Basically "I could fly if id just try harder to flap my arms"
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Jan 27, 2017 02:20
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TomViolence posted:Also you're doing that dumb thing where you conflate "communism" with 20th century marxist-leninist (and offshoot) regimes as if that one singular authoritarian current of revolutionary socialist thought is representative of all radical left wing practice. Which is how every communist nation turns out. So if communism ALWAYS turns out that way... I guess it doesn't work.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:21
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hakimashou posted:Communism is basically an amalgamation of all the bad things people have ever come up with. 504 posted:Communism is a ridiculous pipe dream that true believer think would work if only every single person involved with really really tried (despite the fact the vast majority of people don't want to, and do better in life if they don't).
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Jan 27, 2017 02:22
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Wait lol, what is "radical left wing practice" even supposed to mean? Posting on the internet? Not being late for class your first year off at university? hakimashou fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 02:24
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hakimashou posted:Communism is basically an amalgamation of all the bad things people have ever come up with. And yet, your posts.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:29
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TomViolence posted:Didn't I mention earlier that under capitalism 3.5 billion people worldwide are collectively poorer than the richest 8 people? First world communism doesn't do jack poo poo for the third world except probably cut off trade (they call it exploitation) and gently caress them more. Buddy it's not just a coincidence that handing all the power in the economy to a central organization causes problems. Like I said, if democracy can't contain decentralized capitalists competing against each other it won't contain communists who centrally control the entire economy and media.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:31
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asdf32 posted:First world communism doesn't do jack poo poo for the third world except probably cut off trade (they call it exploitation) and gently caress them more. Communism can't exist in erupting volcanoes, therefore all communist/socialist theories are invalid. Checkmate, humanity.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:34
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asdf32 posted:First world communism doesn't do jack poo poo for the third world except probably cut off trade (they call it exploitation) and gently caress them more. Recent studies estimate that 16.3 trillion dollars of value have been sucked out of poor countries by the first world since 1980. (http://www.gfintegrity.org/reports/) The first world also regularly bombs the rest of the world to maintain capitalist control over resources in third world regions. Yes, the third world would benefit from this coming to an end. asdf32 posted:Buddy it's not just a coincidence that handing all the power in the economy to a central organization causes problems. This is exactly why we shouldn't hand all economic power to the World Bank, IMF, Monsanto, Exxon, and other centrally-planned private monopolies, but put it under democratic control. Capitalist competition is a myth and the free market always leads to centralization and the consolidation of ever-larger monopolies.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:47
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The reactionaries in the thread are just getting lazy.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:54
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Bob le Moche posted:Recent studies estimate that 16.3 trillion dollars of value have been sucked out of poor countries by the first world since 1980. (http://www.gfintegrity.org/reports/) The first world also regularly bombs the rest of the world to maintain capitalist control over resources in third world regions. Yes, the third world would benefit from this coming to an end. The study is wrong. Hence China. Monsanto and Exxon are under democratic control and market control while competing with Dow and BP.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:56
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asdf32 posted:Monsanto and Exxon are under democratic control and market control while competing with Dow and BP. Toilet paper is democratically controlled because I say so.
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Jan 27, 2017 02:58
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Tesseraction posted:Toilet paper is democratically controlled because I say so. Though not as regulated by the state as either Monsanto or Exxon.
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Jan 27, 2017 03:00
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It's so cute reading his posts. Like I'm 10 again
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Jan 27, 2017 03:01
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asdf32 posted:Though not as regulated by the state as either Monsanto or Exxon. That is not democratic control in any understanding of 'democratic' or 'control' in the English language.
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Jan 27, 2017 03:02
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The only reason China is no longer third world is because of the communist revolution that happened there and made it be not be a colony of the West anymore. Same for for Russia which went from being a backwater tzardom of dirt peasants to the first country in space within less than 40 years, rescuing the rest of the world from nazi genocide along the way. (Edit: and we can thank the same capitalist country which elected Trump for putting Vladimir Putin in power there and reducing it back to a hellhole.)
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Jan 27, 2017 03:02
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Bob le Moche posted:Communism is a demonic amalgamation of all things evil in your confused mind because you know nothing about it other than the capitalist propaganda that has been fed to you since birth Hey look, another true believer saying "Nah uh, it works, its just that no one does it right and it always goes bad" Also, im going to go out on a limb as assume you're not from a country that was/is communist, because those people want to get rid of it as quickly as possible (Well, except for the leaders for life that live like kings and kill rivals)
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Jan 27, 2017 03:15
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Bob le Moche posted:The only reason China is no longer third world is because of the communist revolution that happened there and made it be not be a colony of the West anymore. No, the war would have been vastly longer without Russia but the Nazis would have lost. And why are you ignoring the 30 million people that died in the revolution and then under Stalins regime? Oh thats right, because you're one of those pieces of poo poo that ignores massive amount of death as long as it helps your argument.
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Jan 27, 2017 03:19
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504 posted:No, the war would have been vastly longer without Russia but the Nazis would have lost. 
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Jan 27, 2017 03:21
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Tesseraction posted:That is not democratic control in any understanding of 'democratic' or 'control' in the English language. But roughly as democratic as the communist toilet paper factory 31 layers removed from the elected central planning board (that also controls the media) but probably better because there is a market.
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Jan 27, 2017 03:29
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Anticommunists in this thread:
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Jan 27, 2017 03:30
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Bob le Moche posted:The only reason China is no longer third world is because of the communist revolution that happened there and made it be not be a colony of the West anymore. The only reason China isn't part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is because the democratic capitalist west (The USA) destroyed Japan. Also Hong Kong is way way way way better than mainland China and so is Taiwan. What do the two have in common? They escaped the evil of Chinese communism. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 03:42
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SSNeoman posted:
this is an important point, the tragedies of the soviet union were usually failures of logistics or obsessive paranoid self-defense against constant aggression. it's still bad, but their goals were noble. the nazis on the other hand just straight up hated groups of people and wanted to eliminate them and systematically put in processes to carry out exactly that. those are two entirely different types of bad things. we could argue that communists in the 20th century were asking the right questions but came up with wrong answers due to the contingencies of their circumstances, whereas Nazis were asking the wrong questions from the very start & purposely pursued wrong answers on purpose. so in the 21st century, communists are valid in asking the same questions, but coming up with new answers due to new circumstances & technologies nazism is still what it is & must still be obliterated
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Jan 27, 2017 04:43
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I like how you completely ignore the 30 million death toll. You know, how I said believers always do in the text you quote.
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Jan 27, 2017 05:02
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