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The Deleter posted:Just pay the Quanta. Jesus Christ, people, the Republic wasn't built on bathing in alien blood. We don't need to stab people when we're walking down the street. But what if they look at us funny?! WHAT THEN?! nweismuller posted:A High Queendom alliance and fighting across Klackon space is literally our only option for contacting the Alkari  Toldja so.nweismuller posted:Note: we do not want to attack the FPQ. Not yet, at least.
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Jan 26, 2017 09:47
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I'm glad these LPs let goons stroke their jingoism boners. Okay, don't pay the Quanta. But don't go through Klackon space. Who cares? We're under no obligation to meet the Alkari and we're not gonna make a good impression if we turn up covered in bug blood and screaming "HERE'S JOHNNY!"
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Jan 26, 2017 09:58
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Hmm. It is still a priority to make contact with the Alkari, but we must accept realpolitik situations. Hold off for now and see how things develop on the Klackon-Mrrshan front. Continue to favour the Mrrshan, refrain from a full commitment. Building up to that commitment is now a priority, in accordance with the Bauer Doctrine.
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Jan 26, 2017 10:04
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Xenorelations Council Report: the Darloks and the Darlok Administration, 2640 The Darloks are the native sapient species of Gorgor, an Earthlike planet orbiting the star Nazin. They evolved as warm-blooded ambush predators and gatherers in a equatorial jungle region of Gorgor, and were subject to continuous threat by large predators in their evolutionary environment. In order to capture prey and evade detection by predators, they evolved powerful capabilities of camouflage, and are capable of altering coloration, texture, and some elements of shape (built around temporary cartilaginous structures extruded from their permanent bony skeleton) in their skin layer. This is an energy-intensive process, and can be slow for larger alterations, but means that a Darlok can assume almost any appearance consistent with their basic skeletal structure and mass. A deep current of caution, occasionally shading to paranoia, is common in the psychology of almost all Darloks. Development of sophisticated civilisations was slow amongst the Darloks, as they were slow to develop scaleable systems of morality and legal codes that could support larger-scale government and commerce, but once formalised codes of laws were introduced, they spread rapidly and Darlok progress continued at a rate reasonably consistent with other sapient species. The Darlok Administration originated as a coalition of independent republics and princedoms, established initially as an international alliance for strictly military purposes but eventually growing to be a fully sovereign government as the most powerful leaders within the coalition systematically introduced reforms to strip real sovereignty from member states and consolidate it in the Cabal that is the top policy-making board of the Administration. Independent states outside the Administration were invaded and occupied, or pressured into joining diplomatically. Within constituent member states, the Administration is careful to avoid any abuses that could excite hatred, and in fact maintains an orderly and reasonably just environment for the everyday business of its citizens. It combines this with an active and highly sophisticated propaganda service that is extremely careful in avoiding provable falsehoods, and a subtle and pervasive system of police observation that focuses on identifying and eliminating material threats to the Administration. Unlike true totalitarian regimes, the Darlok Administration is less concerned with ideological uniformity and the control of citizens in all particulars than with the efficient identification and neutralisation of actual threats to the continued power of the Cabal. Darlok paranoia, when applied to first contact situations, has created an irrational fear of the motivations of alien species amongst many Darloks, and the strict control of Darlok borders by the Administration is a widely-known and supported policy amongst the general population. The continued distancing of the Human Republic from the Darlok Administration and Human relations with the Meklar Combine have been widely perceived as proof of the sinister motives of aliens, and there are fears amongst some elements of the general population that Humanity plans to invade and enslave the Darlok species. It is impossible to tell to what extent the Administration and the Cabal share this view, as policy debates in the Administration are not public and the IIA lacks any sources privy to high-level policy decisions. There exist several prominent and powerful organised crime syndicates of unusual scope within Darlok space, which appear to maintain an uneasy detente with the formal government, avoiding causing enough damage so that the Administration is driven to root them out. Most Darlok citizens still appear to fundamentally be people simply attempting to achieve success and security in life through reasonably honest and pro-social means, so it should not be assumed Darloks as a whole are simply criminals. Although the Darlok Administration has proved to be much less internally oppressive than anticipated, it nonetheless is ruled by an amoral and ruthless regime that avoids most injustice simply to avoid provoking hatred amongst its citizens, and which we believe is most likely to conceive of inter-polity relations in strict terms of power politics while being prone to assume threat even where none exists. It is also worth noting that Darlok engineers sink great resources into minimising the emissions profile of all warships designed for the Administration; Darlok vessels are likely to be able to avoid most long-range detection methods. Despite all this, current policy of the Cabal is almost certainly focused heavily on the Meklar Combine, which may divert attention from the Human Republic. Even so, it seems unlikely the Cabal is capable of truly believing in the good intentions of any other polity. Darloks are Shapeshifters and Stealthy- they have improved internal security, assimilate conquered populations faster, suffer less risk on spy missions, and have ships difficult to spot at range. They are also Diplomats, like Humanity, gaining a +5% morale bonus and learning the Government technology immediately upon researching Space Travel. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 10:42
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So, were the Darloks everything people expected?
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Jan 26, 2017 10:47
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Like your take on the Darloks. Very interesting xenobiological and xenocultural writeup. Of course, the question comes into play as to how exactly this information was gathered then..
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Jan 26, 2017 11:11
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wedgekree posted:Like your take on the Darloks. Very interesting xenobiological and xenocultural writeup. Of course, the question comes into play as to how exactly this information was gathered then.. Well, there are organised crime syndicates...
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Jan 26, 2017 11:14
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nweismuller posted:Well, there are organised crime syndicates... Works for me. Just so long as any sort of intermediary was not named Harry Mudd when it came to passing along said info...
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Jan 26, 2017 11:16
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nweismuller posted:Well, there are organised crime syndicates... Which you just told us take care not to piss off the government too much for fear of reprisals. Given how paranoid and secretive they are, I kinda suspect that if the Cabal ever finds out which mob told us about Darlok history and biology, that mob is going to regret it intensely. Still, aside from such minor quibbles, I do like the writeup. The Cabal just wanting full control of political and military matters, letting everything else slide and genuinely being supported by the populace is not what I was expecting, but in a good way. Friend Commuter fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 12:46
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I still think they sound shady as hell and we'd better nuke them before they nuke us  - and that's assuming this isn't a bunch of BS fed to us by the Cabal/made up by the mob to get some free cash while screwing over the gullible outlanders.
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Jan 26, 2017 14:39
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Crazycryodude posted:I still think they sound shady as hell and we'd better nuke them before they nuke us And there's that, of course.
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Jan 26, 2017 14:41
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devildragon777 posted:Likewise, peace, but prepare for the Darloks. If they start becoming aggressive we want to be able to shift to proper war footing quickly, but I don't think we should start attacking without reason on our part. (Why does everyone hate the Darloks anyway?) This is from a page or two back, but I'm going to answer this and Kool-Aid Man through the fourth wall to do so. The AI, as you may have noticed, is pretty cutthroat in this game. They are, for lack of a better term, aware of the fact that they are the AI in a game and there's only going to be one winner. Four races getting incalculably wealthy while their servant robots give them massages as they engage in full-immersion VR for whatever sort of third-generation decadence they can begin to imagine isn't seen by the game as a win state, it's a stalemate. One race scratching out an existence on a handful of burned out cinders because the rest of the galaxy is still on fire, however, is a victory, however Pyrrhic. So you can see which one they're going to prioritize. The reason I'm being all "let's be friends with everybody but kill the Darloks" are two-fold: the first is simply that the Darloks are basically The Spy Guys, and out of the box Humans (which we are) suck at stopping spies. If we let the Darloks do what they want, they can have the run of our research, steal our star charts, sabotage our stuff, all kinds of things. Their strength is hitting us at our weakness, so if we crush them now while losing a planet to their shenanigans is an irritant and not a crippling blow, we'll be much better off. The other reason is because I think it's funny to pick one race and go "man, gently caress those guys."
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Jan 26, 2017 15:08
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I'm already preparing my "told you so" for when they crash an asteroid into Paradise or revolt half the Republic or some crazy poo poo.
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Jan 26, 2017 15:15
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MechaCrash posted:This is from a page or two back, but I'm going to answer this and Kool-Aid Man through the fourth wall to do so. Well, if we're doing out-of-character serioustalk, part of the reason I don't want a war with the Darloks while they're busy on another front is that if they manage to get their poo poo together, they are the single greatest threat to the Republic, which means more interesting updates and maybe even a risk of failure.
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Jan 26, 2017 16:06
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Crazycryodude posted:I still think they sound shady as hell and we'd better nuke them before they nuke us They do actually have some incentive to be honest, just like it says in the blurb: if they just straight up lie about their origins and general policies and the "aliens" learn about it, they risk turning everyone against them completely by accident, and they know it.
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Jan 26, 2017 17:54
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Friend Commuter posted:Still, aside from such minor quibbles, I do like the writeup. The Cabal just wanting full control of political and military matters, letting everything else slide and genuinely being supported by the populace is not what I was expecting, but in a good way. "Still a prince should make himself feared in such a way that, though he does not gain love, he escapes hatred; for being feared but not hated go readily together. Such a condition he may always attain if he will not touch the property of his citizens and subjects, nor their women. And if he finds it necessary to take someone's life, he should do so when there is suitable justification and manifest cause..."
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Jan 26, 2017 18:59
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nweismuller posted:"Still a prince should make himself feared in such a way that, though he does not gain love, he escapes hatred; for being feared but not hated go readily together. Such a condition he may always attain if he will not touch the property of his citizens and subjects, nor their women. And if he finds it necessary to take someone's life, he should do so when there is suitable justification and manifest cause..." Whereas we humans seem to at least be trying for the ideal of being both loved and feared, we try to induce love by taking care of our citizens quite well, and induce fear by destroying our enemies. How well this is working at making us simultaneously loved and feared by our own populace and our (non-aggresive) neighbours is uncertain. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jan 26, 2017 19:29
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If the doctrine vote is still open chalk me up for the Bauer camp. The lawyers say I have to state that this is in no way influenced by possible business ventures TYW may enter into, or any rumored connections between Herr Bauer and one of our board members.thetruegentleman posted:They do actually have some incentive to be honest, just like it says in the blurb: if they just straight up lie about their origins and general policies and the "aliens" learn about it, they risk turning everyone against them completely by accident, and they know it.
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Jan 26, 2017 19:45
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The news crawl items below the GNN reports are silly and non-canon, but it is amusing that one of them is 'Darloks find planet shrouded in mystery- later discover it is their own homeworld'. E: Crazycryodude posted:If the doctrine vote is still open chalk me up for the Bauer camp. Still open, and will be until I post the next update. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 19:53
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Mzbundifund posted:Because "Just paying" them involves relinquishing the fruits of decades of research in exchange for the possibly extremely temporary permission to walk across their lawn. We're playing a tech superiority race, giving our advantage away for such a paltry benefit is really dumb. The Psilon Quanta gain little from gaining tech as they do not have to make tech choices. They cannot skip ahead on the tech tree so unless you give them something way above their tech level they were going to get it soon anyways.
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Jan 26, 2017 20:33
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nweismuller posted:"Still a prince should make himself feared in such a way that, though he does not gain love, he escapes hatred; for being feared but not hated go readily together. Such a condition he may always attain if he will not touch the property of his citizens and subjects, nor their women. And if he finds it necessary to take someone's life, he should do so when there is suitable justification and manifest cause..." Sometimes, the old ones really are the best, eh? Friend Commuter fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 20:46
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Voting for Harrison. Chokepoint control with advanced military vessels is better than filling our fleet up with weak scouts in the same vein as the Hornigold.
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Jan 26, 2017 22:16
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It's not like we're about to scrap the Peacemakers and start making GBS threads out a billion worthless pickets if we go with the Bauer doctrine, we'll just focus more on a flexible fleet that can run counter piracy in peacetime and pull off fast offensives backed by a core of heavy hitters during war. Turtling up behind the Space Maginot Line is really expensive, and if (when) we get into a war with someone (the Darloks), it'll be another centuries long grinding affair as we advance system by system and re-turtling, instead of a decade or two (shorter, with better drives) sustained offensive. E: Back to the Space Maginot cost, forting up systems is industry and cash that could be building colony ships and improvements wasted on something that can never be used for anything BUT sitting still in a fortress system. A flex fleet is cheaper, and even if you spent the same amount on a massive fleet it can still hunt pirates and persecute offensives instead of sitting gormlessly in orbit as the Darloks drive through the Space Ardennes. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 22:24
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The Maginot line would have worked great if it weren't for crap allies who didn't build their share of it and got steamrolled. The US tried the flexible picket ship approach for the first few decades of the Navy and repeatedly got shamed by navies with actual line ships. Voting Harrison
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Jan 26, 2017 22:27
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Crazycryodude posted:E: Back to the Space Maginot cost, forting up systems is industry and cash that could be building colony ships and improvements wasted on something that can never be used for anything BUT sitting still in a fortress system. A flex fleet is cheaper, and even if you spent the same amount on a massive fleet it can still hunt pirates and persecute offensives instead of sitting gormlessly in orbit as the Darloks drive through the Space Ardennes. I'll note that the specific technical benefit we get from the Harrison Doctrine will be tying up our factory ships, rather than our planetary production and money- we can get significantly strengthened system perimeter defenses. What the Bauer Doctrine gets us, technologically, is an empire-unique structure that halves our command point cost for light ships. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 26, 2017 |
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Jan 26, 2017 22:31
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Dong Quixote posted:The US tried the flexible picket ship approach for the first few decades of the Navy and repeatedly got shamed by navies with actual line ships. 19th century frigates didn't have antimatter torpedoes that could kill 1st rate Men-o-war with a few shots. If we were just gonna line up and trade cannon broadsides you're right, bigger ships are better, but ever since the age of steam a torpedo boat that costs $800k can reliably sink your $130 million dreadnaught with a single spread.
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Jan 26, 2017 22:33
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nweismuller posted:I'll note that the specific technical benefit we get from the Harrison Doctrine will be tying up our factory ships, rather than our planetary production and money- we can get significantly strengthened system perimeter defenses. What the Bauer Doctrine gets us, technologically, is an empire-unique structure that halves our command point cost for light ships. So in the end, it's a defensive versus offensive war bonus. Since I'm a pacem type, I'm sticking with Harrison.
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Jan 26, 2017 23:35
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So, relevant to super science, space travel and awesome things all around: We just made metallic hydrogen. Among its potential applications are 'room temperature superconducting magnets' and 'rocket fuel almost three times more powerful than the next nearest thing.' It's predicted to be metastable, too, so it should remain metallic even once they remove the pressure. This is a Big Deal for so many reasons and it's got me excited in all the sciencey parts of my brain. Also Harrison doctrine, because why would we want more light ships when we can build BIG ships?
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Jan 27, 2017 04:43
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Stormgear posted:So, relevant to super science, space travel and awesome things all around: We just made metallic hydrogen. That is officially very cool, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. This is so exciting. 
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Jan 27, 2017 04:55
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I'm conflicted over the metallic hydrogen because while it was published in Science, Nature and other big names are skeptical (the study that released is basically exactly the same as one that failed peer review a few months ago with just enough minor tweaks to make it technically different, the methodology that people had problems with wasn't changed at all). Unfortunately, I wouldn't get too excited until we see some more data. Yes I'm very fun at parties why do you ask
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Jan 27, 2017 05:09
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Crazycryodude posted:I'm conflicted over the metallic hydrogen because while it was published in Science, Nature and other big names are skeptical (the study that released is basically exactly the same as one that failed peer review a few months ago with just enough minor tweaks to make it technically different, the methodology that people had problems with wasn't changed at all). Unfortunately, I wouldn't get too excited until we see some more data. I hadn't heard of this, and am disappointed to hear it may not actually be a thing. Ah well! Thanks for correcting my information.
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Jan 27, 2017 05:12
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Oh, I'm VERY excited and hope it's real, but I've been disappointed before - can anyone say FTL neutrinos? (And one of my old professors would burn me at the stake for trusting something that hasn't been THOROUGHLY confirmed). Hopefully in a few months it's all cleared up and we really do have metallic hydrogen to make killer rockets and possibly awesome electronics with, I'm just not willing to jump on it right this moment. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 05:17
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I would like to note that Ars Technica wins the prize for finest illustration of this publication.
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Jan 27, 2017 05:49
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Hah! Anyhow, any xenology thoughts now that we have clearer information on the Darloks?
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Jan 27, 2017 05:55
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*repeats "Shady bastards that need a good nuking" for the 8th time*
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Jan 27, 2017 06:03
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Crazycryodude posted:*repeats "Shady bastards that need a good nuking" for the 8th time* I know your opinion, but I'm curious to see ManxomeBromide's thoughts in this case.
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Jan 27, 2017 06:06
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nweismuller posted:Hah! Anyhow, any xenology thoughts now that we have clearer information on the Darloks? They seem like nice folks. They play power games but they keep it reasonably civil. Plus, think of the opportunities afforded by allowing Darloks in. They can shapeshift. Think what the entertainment industry could do with them as actors. Bringing back dead actors to play parts, the opportunities in adult productions boggle the mind. The shifting doubtless has applications in scientific research, espionage, industry, and all kinds of applications. They are obviously scared. It is in their biology. We need to reach out to them and let them know they do not need to be afraid. We are friendly and if we show them this I think the Darloks would make fine allies.
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Jan 27, 2017 06:23
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In light of all the goon posting I like that average joe Darloks are paranoid that humanity plans on attacking and enslaving them 
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Jan 27, 2017 06:33
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A power structure that takes maximum power for itself while avoiding upsetting the populace too badly is just another way to describe a government. I think our Xenology department needs a civics refresher. It seems what the Darlocks value most is truth. Their inconstant morphology has ironically lead to a strong sense of identity and a desire to know what is real. Perhaps they view us as the treacherous and unreadable ones, because our changes are internal and out of view.
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Jan 27, 2017 06:40
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Rawkking posted:In light of all the goon posting I like that average joe Darloks are paranoid that humanity plans on attacking and enslaving them Have you beenj paying attentio0n to the thread. that is pretty much what some people have been advocating. "Oh, the Darkloks are cautious and reserved and secretive. We should conquer them for their own good!" GEE I WONDER WHY. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
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