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Roller Coast Guard posted:Right, so it's more or less the caution clock from the Trucks last year but every 33% race distance rather than every 20 minutes and with points awards thrown in too. It'll be more like 25%/25%/50% actually. The difference from the caution clock is that it matters for the championship if you're leading when the caution comes out/the segment ends, and that they'll close the pits a few laps before that happens to prevent teams taking advantage of the situation. Alain Post posted:I actually wouldn't mind it that much if they just straight up made them heat races. I guess it isn't that different, but still. Right, in this respect I don't have a big problem with this format. It's just the way they chose to tell it to everyone was horrible. I posted about this in the NASCAR thread, but all they needed to do was say something like, "We're going to create three shorter, harder races within a single, traditional NASCAR race," which would have compactly explained their new format, addressed everyone's complaints that races are too long and drawn out, and resolved it with a promise that non-stop hard racing action is coming back. Instead, NASCAR decided to frame the announcement as something all of the financial stakeholders are thrilled about…and oh by the way, our fans will like these "enhancements" too? I felt even more alienated towards NASCAR after watching that press conference. ed- To keep this relevant to IndyCar: NASCAR has already tweaked its championship format with points gimmicks, and is now further using points gimmicks to spice up the racing. IndyCar has had to rely on that too (quali points at Indy, double points at Sonoma), but it's been a minor change compared to the major changes they've been doing with new cars, quality drivers, the Road to Indy program. I wonder what NASCAR would do if this didn't work? Because the minor changes to the points system are starting to become major changes to the sport, and if those don't work NASCAR doesn't have much to fall back on except contraction. WindyMan fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 25, 2017 |
# ? Jan 25, 2017 23:30 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 04:53 |
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You should never watch press conferences featuring corporate minded people as a general rule, just saying.
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# ? Jan 25, 2017 23:33 |
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WindyMan posted:ed- To keep this relevant to IndyCar: NASCAR has already tweaked its championship format with points gimmicks, and is now further using points gimmicks to spice up the racing. IndyCar has had to rely on that too (quali points at Indy, double points at Sonoma), but it's been a minor change compared to the major changes they've been doing with new cars, quality drivers, the Road to Indy program. I wonder what NASCAR would do if this didn't work? Because the minor changes to the points system are starting to become major changes to the sport, and if those don't work NASCAR doesn't have much to fall back on except contraction. One of these days, someone needs to sit down and run through the results for the past few years with double-points / Indy Qual points removed and see just how much it actually shook things up in terms of championships, instead of just having more drivers mathematically possible.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 01:25 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:One of these days, someone needs to sit down and run through the results for the past few years with double-points / Indy Qual points removed and see just how much it actually shook things up in terms of championships, instead of just having more drivers mathematically possible. Easy enough to do. I whipped up tables for 2015 and 2016 which removed points for Indy qualifying, Indy's double points and Sonoma's double points. I also compared what the points looked like before and after the last race. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7hgciccie97ZGR1LWpydXlaUlU/view?usp=sharing Looks like Montoya well and truly got screwed in 2015. ed- fixed math WindyMan fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jan 26, 2017 |
# ? Jan 26, 2017 03:12 |
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WindyMan posted:Easy enough to do. I whipped up tables for 2015 and 2016 which removed points for Indy qualifying, Indy's double points and Sonoma's double points. I also compared what the points looked like before and after the last race. Yeah Dixie pulled a JJ out of his rear end for that one. Honestly I think that the points should be based on money earned from race to race, but I'm kinda weird like that. e: And I realize the potential risk with that belief.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 05:39 |
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FuzzySkinner posted:Honestly I think that the points should be based on money earned from race to race, but I'm kinda weird like that. Like golf! At golf would never stoop to NASCAR's level and have playoffs at the end of their seaso— gently caress me
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 06:47 |
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WindyMan posted:Like golf! At golf would never stoop to NASCAR's level and have playoffs at the end of their seaso— I think doing it by Purse would allow you to kinda sneak in "Double Points" without it seeming as gimmicky. Same with money for getting the pole at Indy. I don't think there's anything wrong in theory with making the "Majors" in Cup, IMSA, and Indy be worth more than a regular race. The key is making it sure it's only the races that are a part of racing lore, not a race at loving Kansas or Chicagoland.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 09:16 |
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Golf would be way better if the other golfers were allowed to huck golf balls at you when you're on the tee.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 09:49 |
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WindyMan posted:Like golf! At golf would never stoop to NASCAR's level and have playoffs at the end of their seaso— I think the reason /that/ happened because no one really knew who the hell the winner of a "season" was. gently caress, the PGA Championship (as in the competition) is in August (and is not in the playoffs). Ah well.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 18:59 |
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Playoffs for a sport where you compete against everyone else at the same time will never make sense to me. That goes for golf and racing (except drag racing, of course).
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 19:15 |
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The difference is that nobody really gives a poo poo about the "champion of golf"
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 19:29 |
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iospace posted:I think the reason /that/ happened because no one really knew who the hell the winner of a "season" was. gently caress, the PGA Championship (as in the competition) is in August (and is not in the playoffs). Ah well. That's a different PGA, I think.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 19:30 |
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Juicy Juice posted:Playoffs for a sport where you compete against everyone else at the same time will never make sense to me. That goes for golf and racing (except drag racing, of course). Yeah, playoffs make great sense in sports like the NFL, where attempting a double round-robin would literally kill most of the players before the season ended. Not so much in racing.
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# ? Jan 26, 2017 19:40 |
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Um. Okay http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/ford-chief-denies-crazy-indycar-engine-rumors-869136/ quote:Ford Performance director Dave Pericak has denied rumors that Ford is planning a return to IndyCar Series competition in the near future. Feels like things are thawing despite the words being uttered here. We've gone from "No one in the stands/over my dead body" to "It'd be fun to do" Also how is their NASCAR, WRC, and GT program relevant to their street car program? That seems a bit silly.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 22:35 |
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FuzzySkinner posted:Um. Okay their WRC program isn't even full factory anymore, hasn't been for a few years (go watch the official WRC recaps of the Monte Carlo Rally, they refer to them as M-Sport produced cars, which is accurate).
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 22:59 |
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Let it go Fuzzy
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 22:59 |
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The NASCAR thing, as the guys who are in the Facebook groups with me will attest, stems from the fact that there's still a ton of NASCAR fans who are brand loyal and root for people who drive specific manufacturers. Win on Sunday sell on Monday isn't really a thing like it was, but there are absolutely a large number of NASCAR fans who root for Ford and have Fords in the driveway. Also, unlike this motley crew of idiots we have here, a majority of those people only watch NASCAR.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:22 |
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harperdc posted:their WRC program isn't even full factory anymore, hasn't been for a few years (go watch the official WRC recaps of the Monte Carlo Rally, they refer to them as M-Sport produced cars, which is accurate). It's just a very puzzling argument for an auto racing program. Example? Chevy and Honda both have displays up at IMS during "500" weekend to be about their various involvements in racing, and to kinda show case their sports cars. For reference I tweeted photos from that weekend. Here's what Honda is about https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/status/825106473986490370 https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/status/825106562163281921 And here's what Chevy is about : https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/status/825106824269553664 https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/status/825106860109885442 I kinda fail to see Ford's argument here. Honda and Chevy seem to be able to display a mix of their racing heritage and street cars just fine using IndyCar as a platform.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:28 |
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VikingSkull posted:The NASCAR thing, as the guys who are in the Facebook groups with me will attest, stems from the fact that there's still a ton of NASCAR fans who are brand loyal and root for people who drive specific manufacturers. Win on Sunday sell on Monday isn't really a thing like it was, but there are absolutely a large number of NASCAR fans who root for Ford and have Fords in the driveway. Also, unlike this motley crew of idiots we have here, a majority of those people only watch NASCAR. a good post and one I can definitely see the reasoning behind. I don't think being involved in Cup is a bad thing as it does allow them to sell their fans on various Ford cars. Kinda the same with Toyota. It's just a puzzling argument because via their own logic? They really wouldn't be involved in any form of auto racing currently.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:31 |
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maybe you shouldnt pick apart their reasoning and just accept that they dont want to pay for an indycar program
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:32 |
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Cygni posted:maybe you shouldnt pick apart their reasoning and just accept that they dont want to pay for an indycar program See that makes sense.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:34 |
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Honda has supported various forms of open wheel racing for like 50 years. A theory I have (which is completely unsubstantiated and probably bullshit) is the reason they poured so much into F1, F3, F2, Indycar etc. because until the NSX (excluding the weird 60s roadsters) they had no real sports cars to go GT racing with. Like in the mid-80s when they were hammering everybody in F1 the closest things to a sports car they had was the loving Prelude and two Civic based sporty coupes (Integra and CRX).
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:51 |
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FuzzySkinner posted:Also how is their NASCAR, WRC, and GT program relevant to their street car program? That seems a bit silly. Those things sorta resemble street cars, whereas open-wheel cars do not.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:53 |
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Human Grand Prix posted:Honda has supported various forms of open wheel racing for like 50 years. A theory I have (which is completely unsubstantiated and probably bullshit) is the reason they poured so much into F1, F3, F2, Indycar etc. because until the NSX (excluding the weird 60s roadsters) they had no real sports cars to go GT racing with. Like in the mid-80s when they were hammering everybody in F1 the closest things to a sports car they had was the loving Prelude and two Civic based sporty coupes (Integra and CRX). Honda's involvement, success in Indy and F1 is pretty remarkable when you consider what you just typed. The most unusual thing (and I'd like to see Cygni confirm this) is that they were looking to get into IndyCar since 87 or so. (Jenkins mentions it in a broadcast at a Phoenix race around that time, and MP has posted articles saying there was to be a Judd Honda engine that ultimately failed). They've really been Indycar's best friend in a lot of ways. They've weathered the storm with them despite some pretty rough times. e: I've always kinda wanted to construct a "super team" based on drivers who made their names driving with various manufacturers. Ford, chevy would be tough to beat. But man...Honda would have quite the roster considering Senna, Prost, Zanardi, etc, etc.
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# ? Jan 27, 2017 23:58 |
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IIRC they were done with one of Brabham's involvement as well, in addition to Judd. I haven't seen much of '87 but I know in '88 and '89 they were just called "Judds".
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# ? Jan 28, 2017 00:04 |
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The fact that Honda Japan has little-to-no involvement in their IndyCar program always puzzled me a bit, considering they'd be almost nothing as a road car manufacturer without the US market.
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# ? Jan 28, 2017 00:06 |
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In the 95-02 period I think HQ was involved. Fun fact: Mitsubishi nearly bought Honda at one point. That would have been really fuckin' weird.
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# ? Jan 28, 2017 00:09 |
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Honda pretty aggressively separates their US arm from corporate, from what I understand. Monetarily, all US Honda profit goes back to the US arm and not corporate, for example. There are a couple companies like that, Porsche NA is also really independent. I think it helps them politically, Uncle probably knows more than I do about that stuff though. Honda HQ was definitely involved in the CART era, if the number of trips my dad took to Japan are any indicator. They also did a full engineer rotation through the program, which was pretty cool. Fun fact, the computer shift without lift thats now pretty common in a lot of racecars was originally a technology transfer from Honda motorcycles to Honda's CART program, that got worked out over thousands of testing miles at Firebird in the early 90s. Apparently the Toyota oligarch dude (Akio Toyota, i think) was super into CART and racing though, and was a super chill dude that hung around the paddock for every race. Cygni fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 28, 2017 |
# ? Jan 28, 2017 00:24 |
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Cygni posted:Honda pretty aggressively separates their US arm from corporate, from what I understand. Monetarily, all US Honda profit goes back to the US arm and not corporate, for example. There are a couple companies like that, Porsche NA is also really independent. I think it helps them politically, I'm kinda saddened that CART/IRL split right as Toyota was about to enter into the show. Toyota seemed beyond excited to race at Indy...invested heavily within IMSA, The Atlantics to get involved. Then the year FINALLY comes and they're in Michigan on the day they would have made their Indy 500 debut. If I can find it...during one of the old CART broadcasts, they even had a commercial bragging about how they were "on the road to Indy" in 1995 or so. Credit to Toyota for throwing a lot of money at sponsoring races too...it's a drat shame they're not involved any more.
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# ? Jan 28, 2017 02:22 |
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Cygni posted:Apparently the Toyota oligarch dude (Akio Toyota, i think) was super into CART and racing though, and was a super chill dude that hung around the paddock for every race. Yeah the original Gazoo Racing as a grassroots deal (and at the Nurburgring 24H even) was guided by Akio Toyoda, and even now as he's the president of the whole company, they're trying to earn that more. It's not a bad move at all.
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# ? Jan 28, 2017 14:15 |
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Cross postBMB5150 posted:
And Newgarden signed the hotwheels car so pretty cool little thing I got.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 21:49 |
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Phoenix is getting some, ah, renovations...quote:SHIFTING OF START-FINISH LINE: The start and finish line for Phoenix International Raceway will be shifted in Turn Two to before the "dog leg" They're demolishing the old stands along the front straight, and renovating the Bobby Allison stands, which are already the newest ones. A 1/2-side tunnel for easier access to the garage will be nice, though.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 23:26 |
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so they're doing a Darlington, basically
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 23:27 |
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I wouldn't put it past them to not renumber the turns or anything, though I'm all for the upgraded infield / garage, it looks like it'll be similar to the garage setup at Fontana. Gonna be weird without the front straight stands and the old press box, though.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 23:37 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:A 1/2-side tunnel for easier access to the garage will be nice, though.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 00:12 |
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Kanaan has 7-11 sponsorship apparently. Good stuff, they have nice looking colours.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 18:15 |
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They sponsored him back pre-split right? *edit* Yeah they did in 2003.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 18:43 |
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Bentai posted:They sponsored him back pre-split right? IIRC Kool Green was kinda behind it with 7/11 kinda backing it to "mask" the funding. Unsure if that's true or not.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 18:46 |
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Speaking of TK, drat he's got some good taste in cars. Obviously one of those was a prize, but a Carerra GT to go with it?
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 23:51 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 04:53 |
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My honest first thought was "how does an IndyCar driver afford all of those?"
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# ? Feb 1, 2017 12:14 |