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Well he did kind of pretty much genocide the Kryptonian race. Like it's still Genocide if there's one dude left.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:41
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I am going to give the people in MoS credit and assume that the giant death machine crushing everything probably prompted most of them to leave, so while Superman's fight with Zod caused a lot of property damage and had a fair amount of casualties, he didn't incidentally murder thousands of people, but was simply not 100% successful at preventing Zod from trying to kill everyone, everywhere. I think there's one minor change that would have improved this (when they go out into space, have it really explicitly be Clark trying to take the fight away from people, with Zod deliberately trying to keep it on Earth to kill as many people as possible) but it's not really necessary if you look at the film in good faith? Hollismason posted:Did you watch the film by putting your ear to the door of the theater? I dunno when he just starts blasting laser beams every where in the battle with Zod. Here are the Total Laser Beams Used in Man of Steel: - heating the doorknob as a child (mild inconvenience) - cauterizing Lois' wounds (-1 kill) - Clark destroying the seed ship (0 kills, though the last technology to produce Kryptonian life was in there) - Zod tearing a building apart (??? but probably 0) - Zod's snapped neck (0 kills) Zod's entire operation might have killed 100,000 people if there was a bunch of offscreen casualties based on them deliberately trying to kill people rather than kryptoform the Earth (which is dumb, because Zod explicitly changes tacks from 'preserve Krypton' to 'gently caress everything Clark loves' and is basically apathetic to humanity beforehand), but that's dumb and you are dumb Hollismason posted:Well he did kind of pretty much genocide the Kryptonian race. Like it's still Genocide if there's one dude left. Krypton had its chance. And yet he still cares, deeply, about it. Even if he considers himself a child of Earth, Krypton deserved to live - right up until it decided that Earth didn't deserve to.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:48
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Hollismason posted:Well he did kind of pretty much genocide the Kryptonian race. Like it's still Genocide if there's one dude left. No, he killed A Kryptonian. The other dozen or so still alive are back in the Phantom Zone, and he himself (was) still alive. That's not a genocide. That's, at best, homicide. He did prevent more from being able to be created, but that's not murder because there was no life that he destroyed. I'm pretty sure LOIS killed more Kryptonians on her way out of the ship.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:53
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Hollismason posted:Did you watch the film by putting your ear to the door of the theater? I dunno when he just starts blasting laser beams every where in the battle with Zod. That doesn't happen in the movie. Superman kills a total of 1 person in the film.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:54
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I had more hope for Affleck as a director than as the Batman, and I think he was the best the Batman by a large margin. RIP the Batman.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:56
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It's pretty funny that Will Arnett is among the the few theatrical Batmen.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:59
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Hollismason posted:Did you watch the film by putting your ear to the door of the theater? I dunno when he just starts blasting laser beams every where in the battle with Zod. Pretty sure the only time he uses his laser eyes in the final battle is at the construction site. So, in open space, high atop the city, with absolutely no civilians around. Try watching the movie, it helps.
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Feb 1, 2017 07:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That doesn't happen in the movie. All Lives Matter! Edit: sorry for the double post, I thought you guys would be faster.
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Feb 1, 2017 07:18
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Did you see what was left of Metropolis after the fight with Zod and now you're like " Good thing they just fought through empty buildings!"
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Feb 1, 2017 07:30
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Hollismason posted:Did you see what was left of Metropolis after the fight with Zod and now you're like " Good thing they just fought through empty buildings!" The majority of that damage was done by either the gravity machine, or Zod. Zod who was quickly becoming just as powerful as Clark and was incredibly more skilled at fighting, having actually fought ever in his life unlike Clark. That damage, and loss of life, is on Zod. Not Clark. Good thing Clark was there to stop him!
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Feb 1, 2017 07:32
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Hollismason posted:Znyder should direct it he's pretty much wanted it for years so much so he made a Batman film out of Man of Steel and Batman V Superman. You are really, really bad at distinguishing things. Hollismason posted:Did you watch the film by putting your ear to the door of the theater? I dunno when he just starts blasting laser beams every where in the battle with Zod. And remembering things. Hollismason posted:Well he did kind of pretty much genocide the Kryptonian race. Like it's still Genocide if there's one dude left. Also understanding things.
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Feb 1, 2017 07:39
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Burkion posted:No, he killed A Kryptonian. The other dozen or so still alive are back in the Phantom Zone, and he himself (was) still alive. That's not a genocide. That's, at best, homicide.
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Feb 1, 2017 07:46
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Drifter posted:Are you loving kidding me? Each one of those precious baby eggs was a person. Each one of those DNA encodes burned into the matrix skull was a potential life. Superman literally killed billions of people, trillions if you count the remaining batches of baby eggs being created over time. No.
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Feb 1, 2017 07:48
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I suspect he's not being serious  by that logic i'm killing infinite people every time i jack off
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Feb 1, 2017 07:55
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Batman in the stall next to you, taking a Bat Dump. His cape drapes under the barrier and crowds your feet. I am the Joker, about to prank him real good. (slightly  )
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Feb 1, 2017 08:15
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Hollismason posted:Did you see what was left of Metropolis after the fight with Zod and now you're like " Good thing they just fought through empty buildings!" Yeah. I also saw that post where you complained about stuff that did not happen in the movie.
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Feb 1, 2017 09:46
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Superman killed dozens.
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Feb 1, 2017 11:02
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Lobok posted:Then the Batmobile chase scenes will be INCREDIBLE. Well drat, now I want a Miller film set entirely in the Knightmare timeline.
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Feb 1, 2017 11:04
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Lt. Danger posted:Superman killed dozens. But Superman wasn't in part of the invasion in Avengers?
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Feb 1, 2017 11:47
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As we rehash these arguments for the thousandth time, I feel like I have an insight into how ecclesiastical schisms happen.
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Feb 1, 2017 12:30
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K. Waste posted:Clark saved the Earth. nothing like a good old fashioned "sure we killed a lot of civilians, but it was for the greater good" argument in tyool 2017
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Feb 1, 2017 14:42
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:nothing like a good old fashioned "sure we killed a lot of civilians, but it was for the greater good" argument in tyool 2017 Time to stop watching action movies, I guess.
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Feb 1, 2017 14:44
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Grendels Dad posted:Time to stop watching action movies, I guess. I actually think if you take Superman as emblematic of the security state that doesn't give a gently caress about dead civilians as long as it can put up a big "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner after killing the head bad guy, it becomes at least somewhat defensible as satire. Take that out, and you just have kind of a mediocre superhero movie. "time to stop watching action movies" is a weird thing to take from my post though, considering there are many, many action movies that don't involve the hero leveling buildings full of people. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 14:47
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That wasn't a justification, it was a refutation. "No, he didn't kill any civilians and in fact saved all of the civilians, i.e. the Earth."
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Feb 1, 2017 15:19
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McSpanky posted:No, he didn't kill any civilians I mean, except for the ones he did. I suppose it's true that he didn't kill all of the civilians, i.e. the planet Earth.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I actually think if you take Superman as emblematic of the security state that doesn't give a gently caress about dead civilians as long as it can put up a big "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner after killing the head bad guy, it becomes at least somewhat defensible as satire. Take that out, and you just have kind of a mediocre superhero movie. It's a dig on that very last part, because Superman never actively does that. He is being thrown into buildings, when he tries to stop the genocidal maniac. This weird insistence that Superman is responsible or accountable for the damage and death in MoS makes for the lamest, most source-detached criticisms. It's as if you blamed John McClaine for the damage done in Die Hard.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:22
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I wouldn't even really call Superman killing civilians in the movie a criticism at this point, it's just a thing that happens in the movie.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:23
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I wouldn't even really call Superman killing civilians in the movie a criticism at this point, it's just a thing that happens in the movie. Where?
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Feb 1, 2017 15:26
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Grendels Dad posted:Where? You don't really need me to point this out, we've all been over it. Like I said, there are ways of working with that which make the movie interesting, and I think it's not out of bounds as satire. Really, I'm trying to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt. Either he was trying to make a point with it, or he's just a guy who loves violence and doesn't have a great command of tone (which, granted, BvS kinda bears out). But insisting that Superman doesn't actually kill anyone so you can read Man of Steel as just a straightforward, morally uncomplicated superhero movie - I mean, you can do that, but it seems to make the movie a whole lot less interesting, so I'm not sure why you would.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:30
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I didn't like BvS, but one part I did like was how in Man of Steel the crashing satellite looked like barely anything (since it'd just burn up in orbit), then in BvS from Batman and the populace's perspective it's this colossal satellite rain. It was probably my favorite part of the film.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:42
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RBA Starblade posted:I didn't like BvS, but one part I did like was how in Man of Steel the crashing satellite looked like barely anything (since it'd just burn up in orbit), then in BvS from Batman and the populace's perspective it's this colossal satellite rain. It was probably my favorite part of the film. In MoS they show the satellite coming down from Lois's perspective. It looks like a huge metal comet coming down.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:45
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Tezcatlipoca posted:In MoS they show the satellite coming down from Lois's perspective. It looks like a huge metal comet coming down. That was just symbolism, an analogy of the destruction that Superman was causing in his careless and wanton destruction of the City. I honestly don't know how much of the Superman killing people argument is actually serious now. Like, he NEVER killed anyone, and BOgey refuses to say what scenes of the movie he's actually trying to talk about - he's taking his conversational cues from Sean Spicer, apparently. There's not one instance where Superman deliberately hurts another human. All of the violence is caused by the invaders and Superman trying to defend against them as they are attacking him. Drifter fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 16:19
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Tezcatlipoca posted:In MoS they show the satellite coming down from Lois's perspective. It looks like a huge metal comet coming down. Oh, I'm misremembering then. Well, nevermind. quote:Like, he NEVER killed anyone, and BOgey refuses to say what scenes of the movie he's actually trying to talk about. tell that to zod's Joking aside any deaths Superman causes in MoS aren't really his fault, he's just sort of bad at minimizing damage though he tries pretty hard and Zod won't let him.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:22
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Hollismason posted:Znyder should direct it he's pretty much wanted it for years so much so he made a Batman film out of Man of Steel and Batman V Superman. Batman is good b/c of Jack NIcholson and Keaton being weird. None of that in MoS. Is there a scene in that movie that's as playful and oddball as Keaton confronting the Joker as Bruce Wayne or the Museum scene?
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Feb 1, 2017 16:30
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quote:Affleck, who most recently helmed Live by Night, wrote the script with Geoff Johns, and a rewrite was just turned in by Chris Terrio, the Oscar-winning scribe of the Affleck-directed Argo. Our sister publication Variety was first to confirm Affleck’s exit as director. http://deadline.com/2017/01/ben-affleck-not-directing-batman-1201897975/ Er, I thought there was no finished script yet?
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Feb 1, 2017 16:33
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RBA Starblade posted:Joking aside any deaths Superman causes in MoS aren't really his fault, he's just sort of bad at minimizing damage though he tries pretty hard and Zod won't let him. I think some people put on Superman the deaths caused by Supes being tossed through buildings like a rag doll. It's not like he's not trying to stop himself being used to wreck up the joint, it's that he can't. Which to some is kind of a Not My Superman moment. Also, him throwing the Kryptonian into the oil tanker in Smallville was a wee bit irresponsible.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:38
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By the same logic, if I'm running away from an active shooter, anybody he hits my fault.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:53
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:nothing like a good old fashioned "sure we killed a lot of civilians, but it was for the greater good" argument in tyool 2017 You have neither demonstrated when or how Clark killed civilians. Uncle Boogeyman posted:You don't really need me to point this out, we've all been over it. You're jumbling a lot of concepts here and not baring out any criticism. For instance, how does Clark killing people (which is not depicted in the film) bare out as satiric, but the scenario where he doesn't is "straightforward, morally uncomplicated"? You need to render a consistent reading of the film, first.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:54
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You guys are arguing with people who called Snyder's Superman "Batman who can fly" (Hollismason) and another who explicitly said that Snyder's Superman is Kid Miracleman from Alan Moore's Miracleman (Boogeyman). In other words, you're wasting your time. edit: good lord that was a lot of typos Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 16:58
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I'd say the worst thing about talking about movies is how few people are interested in talking about what actually happened in the movie. Like those are some interesting premises if backed up by evidence from the film (and Miracleman in this case).
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Feb 1, 2017 17:03
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