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TomR posted:Not a lot of hard details yet, but it looks like the next wave of VR headsets all use a stereoscopic depth camera setup to do tracking without any base stations. Screen res of 1440x1440, though possibly only 60hz. They are lighter though, seems they are around 350g vs 550g for the Vive. Also they seem to all use the PSVR style headband with flip up screen, which people seem to like. There are a million ways to improve VR other than screen res though. Lighter, more comfortable, better optics. Even the software makes a huge difference at this point. It will be very interesting to see what comes out in March, even if it's just to know if the Microsoft Holographic platform is garbage or not. Isn't 60hz supposed to be noticably and significantly worse, including causing nausea in a lot of people?
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Feb 1, 2017 15:23
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TomR posted:Also they seem to all use the PSVR style headband with flip up screen, which people seem to like. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1552002329/revolve-for-vive I ordered this, will report on how well it works when it arrives. TomR posted:There are a million ways to improve VR other than screen res though. Lighter, more comfortable, better optics. Even the software makes a huge difference at this point. It will be very interesting to see what comes out in March, even if it's just to know if the Microsoft Holographic platform is garbage or not. While it's true, the biggest issue I have with VR currently is the lovely resolution making any text that isn't huge unreadable. All the text in elite is pretty drat large on a monitor, but the smaller text is *just* on the legible side in VR, with pretty hefty supersampling enabled. My headset losing a few more grams and having ASW and whatever other advances come around in steamvr would be great and all, but no software solution is going to fix that issue ever. We need foveated rendering and higher resolution asap.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:26
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Yes, but I can't find solid details on any of the headsets.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:30
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Truga posted:No, barring someone sneakily making a hq vr thing in 2017, we're going to see viive/cv2 in 2018. 2 years is way too long for my taste too I want 4k per eye yesterday, but things are suspiciously quiet for a new big release in 2017. Is there even a GPU that can handle that sort of rendering at 2x4K on the market now? My 1080 has yet to find anything in VR that causes it to chug badly, but my understanding is that it can struggle on a single 4K display for conventional games.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:34
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Truga posted:While it's true, the biggest issue I have with VR currently is the lovely resolution making any text that isn't huge unreadable. All the text in elite is pretty drat large on a monitor, but the smaller text is *just* on the legible side in VR, with pretty hefty supersampling enabled. My headset losing a few more grams and having ASW and whatever other advances come around in steamvr would be great and all, but no software solution is going to fix that issue ever. We need foveated rendering and higher resolution asap. Yeah, I still absolutely love my Vive and use it poo poo loads but no amount of extra guff will make me upgrade to second gen as long as the resolution is still crappy. I totally get that it's going to be a while until the res becomes sharp because of the amount of power that's going to need to run at 90fps, but I'm happy to wait.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:36
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You don't have to render everything at high resolution to get the benefits of a higher dpi screen. Hell, just the reduced screen door effect would be great. But you could render all the geometry and non-text at low resolution, and have only text textures render at higher resolution. The resolution in vive is already plenty good enough for most things, it's mainly text that suffers. That, or foveated. I'd be fine with either.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:42
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Doesn't foveated rendering theoretically help with hardware specs because it only has to fully-render where your eyes are tracking?
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Feb 1, 2017 15:45
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Yeah that's the idea.
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Feb 1, 2017 15:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Doesn't foveated rendering theoretically help with hardware specs because it only has to fully-render where your eyes are tracking? Yes apparently it can reduce hardware requirements down 10X (According to the Abrash talk at Oculus Connect). Which would be good since for equivalent visuals to normal 1080p flatscreen play you need something like 7X the hardware. If we got fovated working we could have roughly the same graphics in VR as we do in non tracked flatscreen. If we get fovated working flatscreen gaming then we'd get a generation leap (or a free update from 1080p60 to 4k120).
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Feb 1, 2017 15:50
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That would be the death knell for local multiplayer, if it wasn't dead already.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:00
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Eye tracking already works on a flat screen, nobody supports it. http://www.tobii.com/group/about/this-is-eye-tracking/
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Feb 1, 2017 16:06
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Hamshot posted:That would be the death knell for local multiplayer, if it wasn't dead already. Imagine what it could do to advertising though? Product placement would get a whole new meaning. TomR posted:Eye tracking already works on a flat screen, nobody supports it. http://www.tobii.com/group/about/this-is-eye-tracking/ Do we know why?
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Feb 1, 2017 16:07
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Butt Discussin posted:Isn't 60hz supposed to be noticably and significantly worse, including causing nausea in a lot of people? Gear VR and Daydream are both only 60hz and both seem to be managing as consumer products. Certainly 60hz is worse, but it's not "you can't sell this" worse. It seems like it would be a weird cost-saving choice for a PC headset, though. My understanding is that higher refresh rate display controllers aren't significantly more expensive to make, so you would have thought they'd target 120hz instead. Maybe persistence times are the problem?
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Feb 1, 2017 16:08
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Truga posted:Imagine what it could do to advertising though? Product placement would get a whole new meaning. Probably chicken and egg problem plus cost of hardware also it's newish and unless it works 100% perfectly all the time you can't use it.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:14
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A flatscreen occupies far less of your FOV so the gains from doing it would be commensurately less.
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Feb 1, 2017 16:18
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Should put this tech on all flat displays. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
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Feb 1, 2017 16:25
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TomR posted:Should put this tech on all flat displays. That's basically TrackIR. Also kinda literally considering one of the more popular TrackIR configurations uses a Wii remote. Eye tracking makes sense for VR considering the fairly substantial benefits of foveated rendering. I have to wonder if it would be possible to fake convergence artifacts (DOF blur) with it effectively too.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:14
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Truga posted:Do we know why? For the low price of $300 you can add virtually no new functionality to ~10% of the games you play! It would add a lot of potential in VR though. But it lacks value right now. Cojawfee posted:No one is sitting quietly, but we have to wait for technology to catch up. 1200p screens at 90hz, with low persistence and global update is the standard.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:15
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Im sure you could torture the poo poo out of someone with some lsd or something and gen1 headset a redditor of course posted:I fell asleep watching a movie the other night in the movie theater setting on bigscreen. In the morning my wife came upstairs to get ready for work and obviously saw me reclined in my lazy boy and attempted to wake me up. This was the most horrifying experience of my life.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:24
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Alpha Phoenix posted:4k and 8k VR exists at least in prototype. Pimax isn't a 3d roomspace gaming company though, but the hardware works. It works, but is it good? Until we get cards that have HDMI 2.1 that can do 4K@120hz, we can't do much more than 4K@60hz. 60hz just isn't good for VR. No decent company is going to release a major headset that runs at 60hz. I'm going to guess that after new video cards come out (rumored to be this year), and once HTC and/or Oculus get a line on panels that combine to be 4K, we'll see new headsets. I doubt that's going to happen until 2018. They might announce something this year, but I highly doubt anything will release until next year. HTC and Oculus aren't going to poo poo out some minor revision of their headsets just because some other company hits the market with something similar. I hope they don't release anything until they have 4K at 90-120hz, eye tracking, and lenses that can be focused to let people take off their glasses. Also, they need to solve the god rays issues. Based on how long it has taken to get through the different prototypes, I doubt that's going to happen this year. People are really getting their hopes up too high. Though it's not as bad as when people thought Oculus would release a brand new headset for Christmas after just barely getting the Rift out. Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 17:37
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I doubt we'll see it, but Oculus could put out a revision of the Rift with better lenses, or a slight redesign to get costs down. HTC could put out a more comfortable Vive, better lenses etc. Not a huge update but something. I'm more thinking that other companies are going to be bringing out headsets that have small advantages in some areas putting pressure on them. Probably the biggest thing we will see is costs coming down with more competition.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:50
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The more comfortable Vive at least is already a thing, in the form of the new strap.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:52
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It would be nice if they increased the screen resolution if only for programs like Bigscreen, Virtual Desktop, and watching movies. For games, they could just not use the 4k or whatever resolution they end up going with if it's too demanding. I'm planning on sitting out of gen 2 and just skipping directly to gen3 unless there are some significant advances, personally.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:54
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I look forward to getting the better Vive Strap, but that's more of an addon. Updating the lenses on the Rift just adds more R&D costs that have to be made up on something they already claim they are losing money on.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:57
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Cojawfee posted:It works, but is it good?
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Feb 1, 2017 17:59
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Cojawfee posted:I look forward to getting the better Vive Strap, but that's more of an addon. Updating the lenses on the Rift just adds more R&D costs that have to be made up on something they already claim they are losing money on. I'm sure they are doing R&D on lenses as we speak. They can't just sit around and not develop better lenses if they want to put out a better product in the future. Lenses are probably near the top of the list for things wrong with the current gen headsets. Keep in mind if the panel size stays the same they could use the same lens design across multiple headsets while only improving the panel until it outstrips the lens's ability to resolve detail.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:04
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The PSVR uses curved (as opposed to fresnel) lenses and lots of people think it looks as good or better than the headsets with more pixels. There's tons of room for improvement in areas that don't involve host system horsepower.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:06
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Yes, research for the next headset. If they used the same size screens for the next headset, that would be disappointing. The narrow fov is one the biggest complaints about VR.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:09
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haveblue posted:The PSVR uses curved (as opposed to fresnel) lenses and lots of people think it looks as good or better than the headsets with more pixels.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:15
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Wider FOV also makes foveated rendering more useful so hopefully they come together. Like I said I don't expect Oculus or HTC to release a 1.5 version with different lenses, I'm just making the point that there are a lot of things they could be working on to make the headsets better, and I'm sure they are. I also have high hopes for everything else coming. It'd be nice to see a huge slew of VR devices come that aren't all garbage or somehow worse than what we already have.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:18
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Wouldn't mind if they came up with a upgrade kit... Like if Oculus developed some lenses that worked the same way they do now, but also get rid of some of the "god-rays" or whatever you want to call them, I wouldn't mind taking a screwdriver to the thing to replace them myself. Not that I can even think of any screw holes on the thing anywhere already...
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Feb 1, 2017 18:25
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This is super cool. A Vive and Hololens working together. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPYb2IsZL68
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Feb 1, 2017 18:26
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somebody posted an amazing futurama break room steam environment on reddit http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=854399522
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Feb 1, 2017 18:42
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Cojawfee posted:No one is sitting quietly, but we have to wait for technology to catch up. 1200p screens at 90hz, with low persistence and global update is the standard. At least for the Rift, the screens support a rolling shutter as well. TomR posted:Probably the biggest thing we will see is costs coming down with more competition. Competition doesn't help bring prices down when the units are already selling at cost.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:00
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Zenimax is rich, rich! They just got $500 million http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14474198/oculus-lawsuit-verdict if your entire argument hinges on whether luckey could have been successful without carmack and his crew, you know you've already lost
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Feb 1, 2017 21:34
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Bhodi posted:Zenimax is rich, rich! They just got $500 million Lol, "ends" this will go on for years
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Feb 1, 2017 21:39
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Sorry for moderately low content post but I just made a list of VR things I've done and how I felt about them. I figured this might be of interest to people and expose them to some things they hadn't of heard of. Things I really liked Gorn (Itch.io) Freedom Locomotion (Although not that much there) (Itch.io) Thrill of the Fight Knockout League VR SairentoVR Serious Sam The Last Hope (Not much there when I played) Space Pirate Trainer Holopoint AudioShield Audiobeat Rec Room (awesome) SwordMaster VR Lab Archery and Xortex 26XX QuiVR (Good free archery coop) Out Of Ammo (but not much there) Superhot VR Ok - So So Bullet sorrow Demo Chryslis Pyramid (Itch.io) Cosmic Rift Blast it! (Itch.io) Universal Sandbox.Alpha Arizona Sunshine Dimension Hunters Demo Fantastic Contraption Job Simulator Nightstar Demo Raw Data Selfie Tennis Trickster VR Vanishing Realms Destinations Bullet Train Below OK VR BaseBall (Hitting sim not much there) Cargo Cult (first person boring shooter with some motion sickness issues) Disliked Adrift Nick Dues Ex VR Experience
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Feb 1, 2017 22:07
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I mean that's pretty much a win for Facebook, the jury found that they didn't take trade secrets. So they've paid 2.5 billion for Oculus instead of 2 billion, which is still a deal.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:08
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Zero VGS posted:I mean that's pretty much a win for Facebook, the jury found that they didn't take trade secrets. So they've paid 2.5 billion for Oculus instead of 2 billion, which is still a deal. Considering Zuck wants to "own" VR like Apple owns mobile it's chump change. Plus it will get appealed.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:10
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Zero VGS posted:I mean that's pretty much a win for Facebook, the jury found that they didn't take trade secrets. So they've paid 2.5 billion for Oculus instead of 2 billion, which is still a deal. $200M of it comes from Luckey and Iribe directly, which I found interesting.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:11
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