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Takoluka posted:Cia's outfit is standard fare for Team Ninja, the people who brought us the Dead or Alive girls. That's as open to judgment as anything else. I'm surprised that Cia doesn't have breast physics. The problem I have is that her assessment of "Why is Cia, the black person, evil and Lana, the white person, not evil?" is really dumb.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxV8gAGmbtk
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Feb 1, 2017 17:20
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Augus posted:Also, Ganondorf isn't black. His skin has a sickly green tone that doesn't exist in real life. The argument that it's racial coding is a weak one. The other Gerudos don't look like this, just him. A dark or swarthy complexion signifying evil and paired against a lightly complected hero definitely does not have tons of cultural baggage bound up in racism or imperialism. How many Disney cartoon villains are the only swarthy members of their race? Why might that be?
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Feb 1, 2017 17:32
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Augus posted:Also, Ming the merciless isn't Asian. His skin has a sickly green tone that doesn't exist in real life. The argument that it's racial coding is a weak one. Just as an example.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:41
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Maybe I'm wrong as hell. But I never once looked at Cia and felt that it signified some underlying dog whistle, just that Cia was made to look different in that form so when the "big reveal" happens, you're not going "Well, yeah. Duh. She looks exactly like Lana."
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Feb 1, 2017 17:43
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Augus posted:Also, Ganondorf isn't black. His skin has a sickly green tone that doesn't exist in real life. The argument that it's racial coding is a weak one. The other Gerudos don't look like this, just him. Cia was designed by human beings to be a villain. Her design reflects that intent. No piece of story detail will ever be worth anything in this kind of discussion. You're like one of those aliens from Galaxy Quest, treating Zelda as a "historical document". EDIT: thanks, watch this
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Feb 1, 2017 17:43
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Takoluka posted:Maybe I'm wrong as hell. Studies show that children of color associate their skin tone with negative connotations more often than white children and that they all have some form of "white bias". The study used identical pictures of the same figure but only color swapped the skin tones. By splitting a character into two personalities and making the good one white and the bad one darker skinned the game designers reinforce those negative associations that kids go on to internalize.
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Feb 1, 2017 17:52
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Fair enough. After all stuff like Casca's skin being lightened in the new Berserk anime still happens.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:08
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Fair enough, indeed. It may also be bias that I think Cia is both cooler and more attractive than Lana, outfit notwithstanding, which may be distorting my view of it.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:32
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you mean japanese video game makers might not be the most culturally sensitive???
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Feb 1, 2017 18:33
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So the Cinema Snob reviewed Glen or Glenda Man does Ed Wood sound like he's really just trying to convince himself in that movie. Poor dude, hope the Tim Burton movie was accurate and he ended up feeling just kind of okay with wearing froofy sweaters and heels
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Feb 1, 2017 18:57
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Isn't that literally Anita's point anyway? The one that's "bad" has darker skin, which has racist connotations. It seems the additional context provided in the thread is the same context as in the video?
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Feb 1, 2017 19:01
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I disagree with her point, because I don't think it would've made a single difference if her skin color had been changed to red, purple, or blue. I think the racial implications expressed are the result of reading too much into it, especially considering there are other heroes and villains in the game that span a diverse range of skin tones, archetypes, and motivations. To focus on Cia specifically and then use Ganondorf as extra evidence that "the bad people are dark-skinned" is, again, pretty disingenuous. I'm not an expert on the subject, though, and I will concede to being wrong if there really is some ulterior motive here. I mean, it's not a huge deal in the grand scheme. Cia's outfit is very showy, and there's no arguing that. I think that's really as far as it goes, though.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:53
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Takoluka posted:I disagree with her point, because I don't think it would've made a single difference if her skin color had been changed to red, purple, or blue. I think the racial implications expressed are the result of reading too much into it, especially considering there are other heroes and villains in the game that span a diverse range of skin tones, archetypes, and motivations. To focus on Cia specifically and then use Ganondorf as extra evidence that "the bad people are dark-skinned" is, again, pretty disingenuous. I'm not an expert on the subject, though, and I will concede to being wrong if there really is some ulterior motive here. Ignoring Ganondorf, why is it disingenuous to point out that a character who is split into two characters, one is white and good, the other is dark skinned and bad, has racial connotations?
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Feb 1, 2017 20:03
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Takoluka posted:I disagree with her point, because I don't think it would've made a single difference if her skin color had been changed to red, purple, or blue. I think the racial implications expressed are the result of reading too much into it, especially considering there are other heroes and villains in the game that span a diverse range of skin tones, archetypes, and motivations. To focus on Cia specifically and then use Ganondorf as extra evidence that "the bad people are dark-skinned" is, again, pretty disingenuous. I'm not an expert on the subject, though, and I will concede to being wrong if there really is some ulterior motive here. The claim isn't that Zelda creates racism out of nothing by creating a racial caste system for its characters. The claim is that racism exists and informs the conventions and patterns that appear in art.
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Feb 1, 2017 20:06
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MacheteZombie posted:Ignoring Ganondorf, why is it disingenuous to point out that a character who is split into two characters, one is white and good, the other is dark skinned and bad, has racial connotations? TV Tropes (yeah, I know) notes something called "Hades Shading," where "evil" results in a "scorched skin" effect. That's more or less how I've seen it. On the surface, it could have some implications, but I think context is pretty important. e: I've been reading some discussions in response to the video to get a better perspective, and eventually, it turned into an argument about whether or not Shantae is racist, so I think I'm just going to drop it before it explodes. Takoluka fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 20:12
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Takoluka posted:TV Tropes (yeah, I know) notes something called "Hades Shading," where "evil" results in a "scorched skin" effect. That's more or less how I've seen it. On the surface, it could have some implications, but I think context is pretty important. Read a book on race and representation and then your opinion will be informed enough to take seriously. Right now you're dismissing any possibility that there is a longer tradition to the stories you enjoy that you might not know about, and you're substituting an alternative hypothesis you pulled off a wiki and expecting it to compete with an argument that cites three scholarly texts right there in the video.
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Feb 1, 2017 20:24
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Jack Gladney posted:Right now you're dismissing any possibility that there is a longer tradition to the stories you enjoy that you might not know about Takoluka posted:I'm not an expert on the subject, though, and I will concede to being wrong It is infinitely easier to say that I am completely misinformed and dismissive, so I'm just going to do that. I apologize.
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Feb 1, 2017 20:32
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Hang on wait a loving second, the person with the Splatoon avatar is sticking up for a Nintendo product to the point of being almost willfully dense again!?
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Feb 1, 2017 20:58
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Alaois posted:Hang on wait a loving second, the person with the Splatoon avatar is sticking up for a Nintendo product to the point of being almost willfully dense again!? They announced that their online service is going to be $70/yr and will actively delete your games, buuuuuuuuuuuut
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Feb 1, 2017 21:01
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Max Wilco posted:For anyone's who interested, here's the RPS interview with Far Cry 3's write, Jeffery Yolahem, where he discussed the game and its supposed satire.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:55
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Playstation 4 posted:That was the post where you earned your dislikes. I really, really need to stop posting when I'm stressed out. Playstation 4 posted:How's the fate of finding things coming? I finished the script months ago, but I'm not happy with it, and I've lacked motivation to work on it. I really don't know if I even want to continue making reviews. I'm in a real rut.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:07
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Seems like a lot of somebodies discovered Franz Fanon last semester!
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Feb 1, 2017 23:05
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You mean Frantz?
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Feb 1, 2017 23:07
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MacheteZombie posted:You mean Frantz? Curses!
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Feb 1, 2017 23:43
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DoctorWhat posted:Cia was designed by human beings to be a villain. Her design reflects that intent. Yep, and since we're talking about a Japanese developer it's possible that it might not even be racist but classist (consciously or not) since historically lower-class Japanese people got darker complexions from working in the sun all day while the upper-class maintained a fairer skin tone. They culturally associate lighter tones, especially white, with purity and beauty.
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Feb 2, 2017 00:02
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TheMaestroso posted:Yep, and since we're talking about a Japanese developer it's possible that it might not even be racist but classist (consciously or not) since historically lower-class Japanese people got darker complexions from working in the sun all day while the upper-class maintained a fairer skin tone. They culturally associate lighter tones, especially white, with purity and beauty. Do you mean the Burakumin, or are you referring to something else?
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Feb 2, 2017 00:23
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rudecyrus posted:Jeffery Yolahem seems like a smart guy, but none of that comes across in the game. It feels like Standard Power Fantasy #35433, and if he was banking on the savvy of the average gamer to pick up on any deeper meaning I've got bad news. he's not that smart, he contradicts his own arguments plus if your intent is to satirise power fantasies by giving the player a power fantasy, without any real comment on what that is in the text, you've just made the same drat thing I feel like writers (ie: hacks) make this argument to deflect and shut down criticism, the story decisions in far cry 3 are stupid, annoying, tasteless, offensive, and boring, yet if it's SATIRE THEN IT'S ALL ABOVE THAT gently caress off
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Feb 2, 2017 00:31
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Far Cry 3 is not an artistic statement of anything because the writers are hack frauds who actually thought people would prefer Hoyt over Vaas.
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Feb 2, 2017 01:20
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Leal posted:Far Cry 3 is not an artistic statement of anything because the writers are hack frauds who actually thought people would prefer Hoyt over Vaas. To be fair Vaas wasn't even in the script, he was written for Michael Mando specifically after he gave a fantastic audition.
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Feb 2, 2017 01:22
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Leal posted:Far Cry 3 is not an artistic statement of anything because the writers are hack frauds who actually thought people would prefer Hoyt over Vaas. seriously the game wasn't the All Vaas Party Hour, that alone is damning of their artistic merit.
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Feb 2, 2017 01:23
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The best part of the game was not planned by the authors. This indicates that Vaas's actor should have just been the writer.
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Feb 2, 2017 07:37
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The entire game should have ended with Vaas being the final boss of the game instead of some bland rich douche.
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Feb 2, 2017 07:43
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Augus posted:Also, Ganondorf isn't black. His skin has a sickly green tone that doesn't exist in real life. The argument that it's racial coding is a weak one. The other Gerudos don't look like this, just him. Wow, I didn't know they had good wifi at the circus.
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Feb 2, 2017 09:02
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Hbomberguy posted:Wow, I didn't know they had good wifi at the circus. listen here mister bombdog I can't possibly imagine a person reading this as black  unless they were just trying to stir poo poo. I mean, he doesn't even have big red lips!
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Feb 2, 2017 15:00
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cat doter posted:he's not that smart, he contradicts his own arguments It's the same old intent argument: "The outcome doesn't matter, what I was trying to do matters!" (See also: the Cia argument) Lotta people think the argument is about whether they're an OK person, rather than whether they just made a crappy thing.
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Feb 2, 2017 15:50
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Alaois posted:listen here mister bombdog I can't possibly imagine a person reading this as black  wow geez they really downplayed the ridiculously over the top nose in later versions of his design didn't they, almost as if...
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Feb 2, 2017 16:24
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holy poo poo was the original Gerudo symbol literally just a crescent and star???
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Feb 2, 2017 16:26
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Tatum Girlparts posted:holy poo poo was the original Gerudo symbol literally just a crescent and star??? Yeah, it's all over in OOT in the Gerudo areas. IIRC the Fire Temple music was also some sort of Islamic prayer chant. Both got changed due to people (understandably) complaining after the first run of cartridges (so they're not in the 1.1 and 1.2 versions of OOT which are what most people have played).
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Feb 2, 2017 17:42
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I thought the crescent and star was just a texture used on movable blocks and not necessarily associated with the Gerudo.
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Feb 2, 2017 17:45
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