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What happened to the 'Legitimate Concerns of the Working Class' Yvette Cooper? EDIT: 74 years since the end of the battle of Stalingrad, back when we knew what to do with fascists. Praseodymi fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 10:07
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I meant to post yesterday that I watched PMQs yesterday. I think there were half a dozen questions about Trump. None about Brexit. 
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Feb 2, 2017 10:16
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learnincurve posted:I think that's what people living and working in London want. I live in the North and what people really want here, is the government to subsidise train ticket prices down to London so we can access all those lovely free museums and galleries, and most crucially, to build council houses. The brexit vote was used by a lot of people to send a message that we are unhappy with the housing situation, and with the full knowledge that Brexit will gently caress London but that it can't get any worse for people stuck living in high unemployment low wage areas with a high street full of charity shops and American owned coffee shops. Unfortunately, this is what will happen: - UK will leave the EU - Workers rights will erode: lower wages, no guaranteed vacation (hope you enjoy two contiguous weeks a year instead of 25 INDIVIDUALLY PICKABLE!!!!!! LABORAL!!!!!!!!! days), lots and lots more precarious employment, black wages - Corporate tax plummets, UK becomes a tax haven, so say goodbye to NHS and free healthcare, expect US-style healthcare - Like NHS, expect any nationalised services to get privatised and to become super mega lovely to extents you never imagined before. Power, water, you name it. Expect more outages, higher prices, etc. - Council houses ahahahaha no. Expect the current trend of houses being only for foreign investors to continue, and to worsen a lot actually because: - The pound devaluation will mean your salary will have less purchasing power. Basically expect a wage cut of like 30% or more. - loving idiot racists will continue to blame immigrants.
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Feb 2, 2017 10:27
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Yvette Cooper, who was in charge of Yarls Wood, thinks Labour didn't address immigration. One of the worst falsehoods that came out of the last Labour government was that it didn't address immigration. They addressed it plenty. It just made the racist bolder and more vocal every time.
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Feb 2, 2017 10:28
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learnincurve posted:I think that's what people living and working in London want. I live in the North and what people really want here, is the government to subsidise train ticket prices down to London so we can access all those lovely free museums and galleries, and most crucially, to build council houses. The brexit vote was used by a lot of people to send a message that we are unhappy with the housing situation, and with the full knowledge that Brexit will gently caress London but that it can't get any worse for people stuck living in high unemployment low wage areas with a high street full of charity shops and American owned coffee shops. Unfortunately, the concept of government interfering in the housing market is terrifying to both the left and right political parties because the only people who vote are homeowners, apparently.
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Feb 2, 2017 10:37
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@Pochoclo And all that could probably be avoided if the government stopped announcing that "affordable housing" is being built, as that's as useful as a chocolate teapot if you are on the dole, and instead announced a massive program of council house building. The majority of the people who voted leave would be sated and Government could stall and stall triggering. E: people who live from 6 month tenancy to 6 month tenancy with a constant threat of rent hikes or eviction, not really giving much of a fig about the long term implications of Brexit. learnincurve fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 10:44
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lol
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Feb 2, 2017 10:44
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Jose posted:lol Interesting scale they're using EDIT: also lol if you think the government will ever care about affordable housing. Poor/middle class people don't bribe politicians so they don't matter. The government will only ever care about rich people buying expensive houses because, get this, they ARE rich people buying expensive houses. Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 10:46
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Pochoclo posted:EDIT: also lol if you think the government will ever care about affordable housing. Poor/middle class people don't bribe politicians so they don't matter. The government will only ever care about rich people buying expensive houses because, get this, they ARE rich people buying expensive houses. I believe Billy Bragg has been photographed standing suspiciously close to Jeremy Corbyn, hasn't he? 
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Feb 2, 2017 10:59
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John McDonnell stated on Today that the most Labour will do to oppose this bill at third reading under any circumstances is abstain.
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Feb 2, 2017 11:07
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Wheat Loaf posted:I believe Billy Bragg has been photographed standing suspiciously close to Jeremy Corbyn, hasn't he? I said government, as in, the people making the decisions. In this case, that means Tories + rich + corporations. Labour is just a bunch of headless chickens put there to give the illusion that the working class has a tiny smidge of power.
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Feb 2, 2017 11:11
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Pochoclo posted:I said government, as in, the people making the decisions. In this case, that means Tories + rich + corporations. Haha, sure, I was joking about. 
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Feb 2, 2017 11:19
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Well that's kind of the point really, when poor people had the opportunity to have a (!) equal vote as the middle and upper classes they used it to send a message. I've unwillingly heard all the worst arguments and bullshit actual racists have used over the last couple of years, and you can see exactly how brexit happened. As a example look at Clay Cross, it's filled with polish people imported by sports direct to work in their warehouses. Sports direct don't employ any non-poles in that area. All the locals is see a massive influx of people taking up houses and a company that won't give them a job. Easy as pie for a right winger to slide on in and say "sports direct get massive tax breaks you know, what's the point of them being here in the first place if they just mean your children can't get a house". "Do you see them putting immigrants near David Cameron's house?" The threat of a economic collapse is brushed off with "well they keep cutting the dole anyway"
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Feb 2, 2017 11:21
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mfcrocker posted:John McDonnell stated on Today that the most Labour will do to oppose this bill at third reading under any circumstances is abstain.
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Feb 2, 2017 11:21
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quote:And one MP who has been at the centre of this grouping in recent months told me that the prospect of appearing on the front of a newspaper labelled “an enemy of the people” was a big disincentive to vote for an amendment on anything. This was concerning.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:03
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learnincurve posted:@Pochoclo The first thing that happens if Labour builds a ton of council housing is that the Tories run on a platform of 'Right to Buy Two: Buy Harder' in the next election and win the election by flogging off all that housing, meanwhile blaming Labour for the tax rises needed to build all of said houses.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:05
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feedmegin posted:The first thing that happens if Labour builds a ton of council housing is that the Tories run on a platform of 'Right to Buy Two: Buy Harder' in the next election and win the election by flogging off all that housing, meanwhile blaming Labour for the tax rises needed to build all of said houses.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:08
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Add in restrictive covenants that don't allow for properties to be used for buy to let, or sold at more than 100% of the initial set price + inflation.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:14
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Prince John posted:This was concerning. A researcher I know said this isn't an uncommon sentiment at the commons at the moment. The way she put it was that you vote, get labeled by Farage and the Mail as an enemy of the people, and then the next time you're mentioned by either it's to say that no one could have forseen the attack upon you on the streets and they certainly had nothing to do with it.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:16
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feedmegin posted:The first thing that happens if Labour builds a ton of council housing is that the Tories run on a platform of 'Right to Buy Two: Buy Harder' in the next election and win the election by flogging off all that housing, meanwhile blaming Labour for the tax rises needed to build all of said houses. Cool, so there's basically no point in doing anything at all because it might help the Tories at some point? If this is your attitude, what is the point in having an opposition? Why not just embrace Conservative PMs forever that way you don't have to worry about them using your policy against you in the future.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:17
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Prince John posted:This was concerning. I'd say Britain was devolving into fascism but tbh we're just being less covert than usual. Edit: I posted the exact opposite of what I meant before this edit. Gonzo McFee fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 12:18
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quote:Michael Lux, the former head of the European Commission's customs procedures, has been giving evidence to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-38829372
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Feb 2, 2017 12:20
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I hope there is a referendum that resolves this peacefully and also one to make Scotland part of United Ireland.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:23
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Total Meatlove posted:Add in restrictive covenants that don't allow for properties to be used for buy to let, or sold at more than 100% of the initial set price + inflation. Parliament cannot bind future parliaments. A Tory government can strike out all that stuff at a whim.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:24
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Alternately, just read Puckoon.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:24
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Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Northern Ireland ends up effectively "cut out" of the UK's borders, ends up like a kind of Kaliningrad Oblast thing.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:27
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Total Meatlove posted:Add in restrictive covenants that don't allow for properties to be used for buy to let, or sold at more than 100% of the initial set price + inflation.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:34
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Wheat Loaf posted:Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Northern Ireland ends up effectively "cut out" of the UK's borders, ends up like a kind of Kaliningrad Oblast thing. NI is already comparable to the KO. If NI is cut off from the mainland UK anymore, especially in economic terms, the majority will vote for reunification. They may well do so anyway pending the outcome of Scexit 2
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Feb 2, 2017 12:35
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Wheat Loaf posted:Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Northern Ireland ends up effectively "cut out" of the UK's borders, ends up like a kind of Kaliningrad Oblast thing. No special deals! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-38827331
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Feb 2, 2017 12:36
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Turn any property that lays empty for more than six months into social housing. Also hang landlords.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:36
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feedmegin posted:Parliament cannot bind future parliaments. A Tory government can strike out all that stuff at a whim. There are legal measures which would put obstacles in the way, though. For example, the Conservatives ran into issues implementing RTB for housing associations and ended up negotiating a deal with the sector to get it in place. You could embed ownership rights, or new forms of legal rights, within independent organisations in such a way that it would be extremely costly to break down, even if it was legally possible. Privatisation is the most obvious example of Parliament binding its successors in this way. It all comes down to pretty old fashioned forms of materialist politics, which organisations have the political/legal/economic power to challenge the state. One of Labour's biggest problems has been its comfort with a centralised state apparatus, rather than allowing power to be held in other socialising institutions. The result of this top-down approach is that the Tories eventually get in and are able to dismantle the whole edifice. Really, we need to be looking at creating a whole ecosystem of organisations, some outside of direct state control, which can promote socialist politics as well as deliver changes on the ground, in terms of housing, infrastructure etc. This seems absurdly utopian at the moment, but its better than relying on failed 20th century models.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:41
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WeAreTheRomans posted:NI is already comparable to the KO. If NI is cut off from the mainland UK anymore, especially in economic terms, the majority will vote for reunification.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:45
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Skinty McEdger posted:A researcher I know said this isn't an uncommon sentiment at the commons at the moment. The way she put it was that you vote, get labeled by Farage and the Mail as an enemy of the people, and then the next time you're mentioned by either it's to say that no one could have forseen the attack upon you on the streets and they certainly had nothing to do with it. The percentage of MPs reporting actual violence or threats is surprisingly high. There was a BBC article a few weeks back that I can't find, which had summaries of the problem and various accounts. We should probably be more tolerant as a thread of what appear to be overreactions about their personal safety in isolation, but might be part of a wider pattern. Gonzo McFee posted:I'd say Britain was devolving into fascism but tbh we're just being less covert than usual. Heh, I was wondering!
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Feb 2, 2017 12:48
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Jedit posted:Alternately, just read Puckoon. Alertrelic posted:Really, we need to be looking at creating a whole ecosystem of organisations, some outside of direct state control, which can promote socialist politics as well as deliver changes on the ground, in terms of housing, infrastructure etc. This seems absurdly utopian at the moment, but its better than relying on failed 20th century models.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:54
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The more I think about it, the more I feel that all Britain's problems can be solved by killing anyone who voted to leave the EU. Unemployment - disposing of 16 million dead will create full employment for a while, after which we'll have lots of vacancies. Also many career unemployed voted Leave. Housing - no problem, we'll have lots of room. Immigration - see housing, plus all the racists will be dead. Pensions - the elderly predominantly voted Leave, getting rid of 60% of them will at least postpone the issue for a generation or more. The NHS - doctors voted remain, the most draining patients voted leave. Win-win for the National Health there. I could go on, but I'm already getting silly. To make an actual serious comment: Brexit will fail because the people who are really making Britain bad are the people who are blaming the EU for the problems.
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Feb 2, 2017 13:01
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jBrereton posted:You think? Despite the relative lack of spending on public sector make-work in the Republic? As I see it, it hinges on (i) a new Scottish referendum galvanising public opinion, while Tories simultaneously cut funding to NI or otherwise impact the public sector. (ii) Enda Kenny's replacement (probably Leo Varadkar) being able to broker some sort of compromise arrangement with the EU, where we take on NI and avoid the border conflict in exchange for structural funding over a period of years to regenerate NI as a haven for fleeing British financial services. This could take the form of forgiveness of a certain proportion of ROI sovereign debt to the Troika
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Feb 2, 2017 13:01
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WeAreTheRomans posted:NI is already comparable to the KO. If NI is cut off from the mainland UK anymore, especially in economic terms, the majority will vote for reunification. They may well do so anyway pending the outcome of Scexit 2 Have to confess, the Brexit vote made me consider the prospect of voting for unification if it came to that for the first time in my life.
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Feb 2, 2017 13:03
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Why would the EU want to see British financial services relocate to Northern Ireland, particularly?
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Feb 2, 2017 13:03
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I'd have thought they'd just go to Dublin.
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Feb 2, 2017 13:05
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Eh, I wouldn't underestimate the resilience of Unionism as a political force and a lot of that plan entails an active drive from FG for reunification which seems a bit unreliable - if its FF I could buy it but their brand of rhetoric is more traditional wouldn't do much to galvanize traditional unionist support for a united Ireland
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Feb 2, 2017 13:06
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