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Pissflaps posted:White paper on Brexit is out: Well, on first skimming of the document it's a load of meaningless arse-wash, as to be expected. As pertains to the NI border issues (Section 4 and Appendix B), there's absolutely zero substantive information there, just a parroting of May's "seamless, frictionless" rubbish. NI is hosed.
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Feb 2, 2017 13:58
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WeAreTheRomans posted:One might have thought the path of least resistance would have been some special concessions being made in return for Britain not throwing all its toys out of the European pram, but welp here we are I have heard that Hollande, Merkel and the various bigwigs in Brussels offered Cameron a renegotiation of Britain's from full membership to associate partnership, whereby we would still pay the dues and retain access to the markets, with a fudge on free movement to placate that element of the Leave base. Of course, Cameron had just done the impossible and won a majority, so he was like, "Nah, man, it's all good, I've got this," and settled for the deal he got, which I personally didn't think was bad but was never going to be good enough for anyone else. I believe Osborne was all for the proposition, but Osborne was always against the referendum in the first place from what I've heard.
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Feb 2, 2017 13:59
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Anyone wondering about what a post-Brexit ROI/NI border might look like, something like the Swedish-Norwegian border is probably the best possible outcome: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04gw07s "Delays can be as little as half an hour" Norway, of course, is in the Single Market whereas Britain won't be, which is quite a big problem with copying that model. Zephro fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 14:01
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Wheat Loaf posted:I have heard that Hollande, Merkel and the various bigwigs in Brussels offered Cameron a renegotiation of Britain's from full membership to associate partnership, whereby we would still pay the dues and retain access to the markets, with a fudge on free movement to placate that element of the Leave base. Yeah, I think that should serve as an instructive example of how the seemingly obvious sensible bureacratic option can be completely derailed by one thick posh oval office trying to secure power
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Feb 2, 2017 14:06
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Okay, here's an Imgur gallery of the charts - http://imgur.com/a/kMnoV This is the most visually interesting one: 
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Feb 2, 2017 14:08
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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feedmegin posted:The first thing that happens if Labour builds a ton of council housing is that the Tories run on a platform of 'Right to Buy Two: Buy Harder' in the next election and win the election by flogging off all that housing, meanwhile blaming Labour for the tax rises needed to build all of said houses. so would you argue that they shouldn't have built all those council houses in the post-war boom?
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Feb 2, 2017 14:09
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Labour MPs who did not vote Diane Abbott (Hackney North) Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) Geraint Davies (Swansea West) Pat Glass ( NW Durham) Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) Margaret Hodge (Barking) George Howarth (Knowsley) Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) Ian Mearns (Gateshead) Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) Liberal Democrat MPs who did not vote Norman Lamb (North Norfolk) Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) SNP MPs who did not vote Callum McCaig (Aberdeen South) Corri Wilson (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)
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Feb 2, 2017 14:09
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Zephro posted:Anyone wondering about what a post-Brexit ROI/NI border might look like, something like the Swedish-Norwegian border is probably the best possible outcome: Yeah, it's an interesting comparison, but since Norway and Sweden are both Schengen and also part of the Nordic Passport Union you probably can't extrapolate too much other than it will definitely be worse than that.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:12
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Regarde Aduck posted:Well it's game over then. The papers not only control the narrative but directly control our politicians. Yeah this is pretty alarming. I expect it probably comes pretty directly from Death To Traitors relatively sluggish condemnation with the whole "this was some freak accident nobody could've seen coming" thing stapled on it.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:13
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Well, on first skimming of the document it's a load of meaningless arse-wash, as to be expected.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:15
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Sion posted:Labour MPs who did not vote Word is that Abbott was pretty seriously unwell, so we can't draw any political conclusions from that one.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:16
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spectralent posted:I expect it probably comes pretty directly from Death To Traitors relatively sluggish condemnation with the whole "this was some freak accident nobody could've seen coming" thing stapled on it. Wouldn't be surprised because the Daily Mail subsequently printed a story which, for all intents and purposes, attempted to shift part of the blame for Jo Cox's murder onto Jo Cox herself so nothing is beneath them at this point.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:19
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Yeah, it's an interesting comparison, but since Norway and Sweden are both Schengen and also part of the Nordic Passport Union you probably can't extrapolate too much other than it will definitely be worse than that.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:19
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jBrereton posted:Still don't really see why we won't just see a tightening of border controls out of Northern Ireland but maintain the lack of an internal border on the island. ok
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Feb 2, 2017 14:20
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Darth Walrus posted:Word is that Abbott was pretty seriously unwell, so we can't draw any political conclusions from that one. The further word is she threw a sicky.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:22
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jBrereton posted:Still don't really see why we won't just see a tightening of border controls out of Northern Ireland but maintain the lack of an internal border on the island. unionists would go mental if that happened, also it would still mean there would be in effect an open border with the eu
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Feb 2, 2017 14:22
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Regarde Aduck posted:Well it's game over then. The papers not only control the narrative but directly control our politicians. no I'm sure someone will appear to tell us again that actually there's nothing wrong with the behaviour of the media and absolutely no reason to incite protest, peaceful or violent, against them
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Feb 2, 2017 14:22
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Sion posted:Liberal Democrat MPs who did not vote #LibDemFightBack
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Feb 2, 2017 14:27
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clear eyes full farts posted:unionists would go mental if that happened, also it would still mean there would be in effect an open border with the eu - Rocks getting chucked at PSNI on the Twelfth because Nigel fuckin Dodds wound people up about ID checks at ports and airports and how it's Impossible To Be Bridish Nowadays. Things the UK government does care about : - Not really wanting to erect a politically contentious and potentially embarrassing border given all the tax based tomfoolery that happens between the north and south already.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:31
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clear eyes full farts posted:unionists would go mental if that happened, also it would still mean there would be in effect an open border with the eu That's OK, they already are mental. Also, the MPs who claim they wanted to vote against yesterday but were scared to can gently caress off. What stunning cowardice. You're meant to be leaders. Act like it.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:32
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Independent (remain): "The complete list of MPs who opposed the Government's Brexit Bill" Mail (brexit): "How did YOUR MP vote in last night's crucial Brexit Bill? The politicians who voted to start the Article 50 talks... and the Remoaners who tried to block it"
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Feb 2, 2017 14:35
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Prince John posted:#LibDemFightBack Surprise, Liberal democrats are piss stain yellow.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:36
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Sion posted:Surprise, Liberal democrats are piss stain yellow.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:36
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jBrereton posted:Yes it's the Lib Dems who are the useless cowards here lol Agreed. Couldn't even whip all of their useless MPs to vote for the one thing their party is meant to stand for.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:39
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I definitely want to focus on the LIb dems and their 8 MPs on this issue.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:40
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A full two ninths of Lib Dems effectively backed the government by abstaining. Shocking.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:42
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Oddly enough it's looking probable that Nick Clegg will lose his seat because of an argument in Sheffield over lack of affordable housing for students.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:47
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Sion posted:Labour MPs who did not vote for the curious, a few minutes with chris hanretty's estimates:  diane abbott must be having a really bad migraine
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Feb 2, 2017 14:49
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Or a hangover https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/826503920075829252
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Feb 2, 2017 14:50
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Pissflaps posted:I definitely want to focus on the LIb dems and their 8 MPs on this issue. Well, there's no real need to restrict ourselves to just one party behaving shittly, and I think this thread has gone over the ground of how loving terrible Corbyn's handling of this has been. learnincurve posted:Oddly enough it's looking probable that Nick Clegg will lose his seat because of an argument in Sheffield over lack of affordable housing for students. At last, some good news in this trashfire country. Would he lose it as in not be their candidate? Or as in a Tory will replace him? forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 14:50
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ronya posted:for the curious, a few minutes with chris hanretty's estimates: Man, if Swansea West only voted 42% Leave then Swansea East must have voted pretty heavily to leave since Swansea was leave overall 
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Feb 2, 2017 14:51
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Oh wow, just check out this salacious gossip!
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Feb 2, 2017 14:54
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forkboy84 posted:Well, there's no real need to restrict ourselves to just one party behaving shittly, and I think this thread has gone over the ground of how loving terrible Corbyn's handling of this has been.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:56
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J_RBG posted:Oh wow, just check out this salacious gossip! The night before she was 'too ill' to vote on the Brexit Bill.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:57
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jBrereton posted:Seeing as a fifth of Labour MPs defied a three line whip, 22% of the Lib Dems not voting seems pretty tame. Yes, but Labour aren't a one policy party. Liberals abstaining on Brexit would be like Nats abstaining on Scottish independence.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:57
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Baron Corbyn posted:Man, if Swansea West only voted 42% Leave then Swansea East must have voted pretty heavily to leave since Swansea was leave overall hanretty's estimate for Swansea East is 62.1% I am not familiar enough with the town to know why there might be such a sharp divergence - Hanretty's estimates are driven by demographic statistics, so it must be pretty sharply different
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Feb 2, 2017 14:58
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jBrereton posted:Yes it's the Lib Dems who are the useless cowards here lol Too afraid of voting against it because it would impact their chances in an election. Too afraid to show up and vote because maybe the taxi driver on the way in would have been mean to them. Just because there were bigger collectives of useless cowards doesn't mean that there's isn't shame enough to go around. Darth Walrus posted:Word is that Abbott was pretty seriously unwell, so we can't draw any political conclusions from that one. Abbott has proven herself as being loving unwell for a long time. She was in the building and then, at 5 PM was taken ill. Unless she started to bleed from her loving pores, she should have stayed to vote on the matter. If Abbott ever complains about voter turnout again, we'll be able to point at this.
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Feb 2, 2017 14:59
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forkboy84 posted:Yes, but Labour aren't a one policy party. Liberals abstaining on Brexit would be like Nats abstaining on Scottish independence.
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Feb 2, 2017 15:00
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jBrereton posted:The Lib Dems aren't a one policy party either. Brexit is very important to them but then so is stuff like PR or surveillance. The vote wasn't on PR or surveillance so what's their excuse?
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Feb 2, 2017 15:01
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https://twitter.com/i/moments/827149090614079489 Good spot that.
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Feb 2, 2017 15:01
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