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Drider-Man posted:Buddy of mine is starting a new campaign and I was thinking of trying out a spellcaster since I've only played martial classes before. I'm trying to find ideas for fun, not necessarily "best" character builds. Does one class lend itself better to utility vs straight up damage? Are there any traps I should absolutely avoid? I think Warlocks offer a nice balance of utility vs. damage while being quite good at each and having a number of unique features that make them a lot of fun to play. They can't do everything, but they can be built to do just about anything, all while having at-will ranged damage comparable to that of most Fighters or Rogues. Of the patrons, I like the Fiend's features and expanded spell list the most, but their value is mostly a matter of taste. Of the pacts, I prefer Chain because having an invisible flying familiar that you can both sense and speak through opens up crazy amounts of options from a very early level. As to traps, I'd point to Blade pact. It never really gets better than Eldritch Blast without some multiclassing shenanigans, and even then, the value is debatable.
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Feb 4, 2017 08:42
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The group I was gonna join didn't pan out. I live in a reasonably big city so I don't really get the difficulty I've had in finding a group that won't flake out. I'm sure there's stuff that would vary from place to place but what would I expect from weekly store D&D events? Do those tend to be welcoming to first-timers?
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Feb 4, 2017 10:28
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Nehru the Damaja posted:The group I was gonna join didn't pan out. I live in a reasonably big city so I don't really get the difficulty I've had in finding a group that won't flake out. I'm sure there's stuff that would vary from place to place but what would I expect from weekly store D&D events? Do those tend to be welcoming to first-timers? If you mean Adventurers League, then yes it should be welcoming to first timers. This comes with the usual local game shop caveat. Adventurers League can be limiting though. You can't use homebrew or unearthed arcana stuff for your characters, only published material. In my experience, players tend to either own the books and metagame, or the DM can be railroady to try to get through a book section in a night. There's no party loyalty, so be prepared for ... discussion when it comes time to divvy up magical items. If you can relax and just enjoy hanging out and rolling dice, it's a decent enough way to play. Your character is transportable to any AL table/event as long as you're in the same tier as everyone else, so you can explore multiple shops/DMs until you find the one you like. And if you don't love your character, you can always roll another and start over in a tier1 game.
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Feb 4, 2017 11:56
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Depending on what your DM says, an invisible flying familiar can give you advantage on attacks with the Aid Another action. It's not an attack so they don't even go visible.
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Feb 4, 2017 12:54
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A simple owl can also stay 30ft in the air and give you advantage by swooping down every round and Aiding without incurring attacks of opportunity. This is great for Arcane Tricksters
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Feb 4, 2017 13:01
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Yeah, there's the usual game store caveat with that, and I've found AL games/players to be fairly rules-intensive because the setup demands it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but if you're into "creative" problem solving the games might be a bit less fun. Also, if you haven't yet, I'd recommend checking out Meetup. My city had a surprisingly sane monthly D&D social meetup and occasional meet and greets with people who were starting games. Ended up with a really amazing one that formed from scratch on there, and I have no idea how we all lucked out because we went in not knowing each other at all.
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Feb 4, 2017 14:46
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DM has approved my request. I will be using a Fochlucan Saxophone, which can, once per day, cast each of these spells: Entangle, Faerie Fire, Shillelagh, Speak with Animals It also gives disadvantage on charm spells cast through it. Will go quite well with my Druid multiclass since he was kicked out of "druid school" for cheating.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:11
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BadSamaritan posted:Yeah, there's the usual game store caveat with that, and I've found AL games/players to be fairly rules-intensive because the setup demands it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but if you're into "creative" problem solving the games might be a bit less fun.
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Feb 4, 2017 18:58
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I'm parsing that as, "no, you can't use Cone of Cold (or whatever) to freeze the river to ford it; it just does 5d8 cold damage to creatures." Which would be lovely. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Feb 4, 2017 19:02
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Zomborgon posted:I'm parsing that as, "no, you can't use Cone of Cold (or whatever) to freeze the river to ford it; it just does 5d8 cold damage to creatures." Please. There's already enough caster supremacy around. We don't need creative usage of combat spells  (Though does a river count as a creature? I mean, humans are basically 70% water and count as creatures as well.)
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Feb 4, 2017 19:31
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I had an AL DM allow me to use Control Water to create a whirlpool and eliminated an entire barbarian raiding party that was coming after our party while they swam across a river. The "creative use of a mind-boggling prepared cleric spell choice" was the reason he gave. As usual, ymmv.
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Feb 4, 2017 19:40
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Yeah, if you're defining 'creative' to be 'this isn't what the spell says but' , oh well. I mean that's the huge power of spells - you can tell the DM explicitly it reads in a certain way, and that's how things happen, rather than playing skill game checks. Trying to have it both ways (where it's both not open to interpretation when you want, and when it is) is a load of crap.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:27
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koreban posted:The "creative use of a mind-boggling prepared cleric spell choice" was the reason he gave. I remember using this as a principle of DMing in 2nd ed. If you legit wasted a slot on Otiluke's Objectionable Ocelot* and then actually think of something it could do, you're goddamned right it works. If you're trying to solve everything by throwing fireballs at it, but, like, creatively, then gently caress you, it doesn't work and now important things are on fire when they shouldn't be. *any spell that's useful in exactly one way, and that situation is probably never going to come up.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:38
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AlphaDog posted:*any spell that's useful in exactly one way, and that situation is probably never going to come up. Well, it's Storm King's Thunder, so I figured if we're skipping around the north looking for relics of giant kind, it might be useful to be able to manipulate stone and water. Turns out, it's super useful!
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Feb 5, 2017 08:14
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Did someone at one point post a tool for creating better monsters than the DMG rules? I remember seeing something like that, and if anyone knows where it's at, it'd be much appreciated. This table in the DMG seems silly, since everything's supposed to be averaged out to generate the CR, but if you read it straight across, CR 1 monsters should have 71-85 HP? None of them do, from what I've seen.
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Feb 5, 2017 20:56
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Zarick posted:Did someone at one point post a tool for creating better monsters than the DMG rules? I remember seeing something like that, and if anyone knows where it's at, it'd be much appreciated. http://slyflourish.com/5e_encounter_building.html https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2015/09/09/improved-monster-stats-table-for-dd-5th-edition/ https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/designing-boss-monsters/ Those are the ones I bookmarked.
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Feb 5, 2017 21:07
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It's not what you're the thinking of, but I've used the following to build monsters on the fly. http://slyflourish.com/numbers_to_keep_in_your_head.html
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Feb 5, 2017 22:45
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Zarick posted:Did someone at one point post a tool for creating better monsters than the DMG rules? I remember seeing something like that, and if anyone knows where it's at, it'd be much appreciated. Yes but those 71 to to 85 hp enemies should be dealing 9 damage around with a +3 to hit while having 13 AC. Most of the CR 1 monsters hit much harder then that. You average out the offence and defense. The monsters I created using that thing normally work out. While also tending to not have nearly that much hp.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:14
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Some dude's made a 5th edition conversion guide for... The Temple of Elemental Evil from AD&D. It's 125 pages long. http://newworldscoaching.ca/downloadable/toee.pdf
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Feb 5, 2017 23:26
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Okay I've got a new group I'm playing in that has a bard and a rogue, so I'm thinking I'll be something beefy. My question for you is this: are martial classes super boring and/or gimped in 5e? I'm skimming the thread but to be fair it's 853 pages.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:51
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Siivola posted:Some dude's made a 5th edition conversion guide for... The Temple of Elemental Evil from AD&D. It's 125 pages long. http://newworldscoaching.ca/downloadable/toee.pdf Oh this is cool. But yeah it would be a pretty big conversion.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:53
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yes but those 71 to to 85 hp enemies should be dealing 9 damage around with a +3 to hit while having 13 AC. Most of the CR 1 monsters hit much harder then that. You average out the offence and defense. The monsters I created using that thing normally work out. Can you explain how that works? Maybe by showing us a few of those monsters?
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Feb 5, 2017 23:55
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AlphaDog posted:Can you explain how that works? Maybe by showing us a few of those monsters? Sure. I just followed the steps for creating a monster outlined in the DMG. An example would be the enemy I created in Sear the Bugbear. He came out at CR 9. His damage averaged at 50 a round at +9 to hit. 138 hp AC 17 with a large amount of resistances that made his hp effectively 199.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:19
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GruntyThrst posted:Okay I've got a new group I'm playing in that has a bard and a rogue, so I'm thinking I'll be something beefy. My question for you is this: are martial classes super boring and/or gimped in 5e? I'm skimming the thread but to be fair it's 853 pages. Moon Druid is a beefy caster. Battle Master Fighter has a lot of situational options. Paladins of any kind can be beefy team players.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:19
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GruntyThrst posted:Okay I've got a new group I'm playing in that has a bard and a rogue, so I'm thinking I'll be something beefy. My question for you is this: are martial classes super boring and/or gimped in 5e? I'm skimming the thread but to be fair it's 853 pages. Main thing I'd recommend is avoiding fighter, rogue or the by-the-book ranger. Martials are generally pretty bad and boring. I'd probably recommend Cleric: they're tanky, have important utility stuff and can kick rear end in a lot of ways without being super OP or themeless.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:25
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GruntyThrst posted:Okay I've got a new group I'm playing in that has a bard and a rogue, so I'm thinking I'll be something beefy. My question for you is this: are martial classes super boring and/or gimped in 5e? I'm skimming the thread but to be fair it's 853 pages. I wouldn't say martials are gimped. At high levels, they're the ones who need to take down the bosses who will likely have magic and/or legendary resistance and very high saving throw bonuses. But yeah, they're boring to play. In combat, the decision-making process is "who to run up to and smack" is as deep as it gets for many of them. Outside of combat, features like the Battle Master's Precision Strike don't exactly have any problem-solving capability, so you're stuck with skill checks with at most as many proficiencies as a spellcaster. I'd recommend a Paladin. They at least get to think about whether or not a target is worthy of spending a smite on, and their aura makes positioning important. AlphaDog posted:Can you explain how that works? Maybe by showing us a few of those monsters? Let's give a creature 11 AC, 35 HP, a +5 attack bonus, and multiattack where it can deal 2d6 + 3 and 1d8 + 3 damage (avg 18.5). 35 HP puts it at a base CR of 1/8 defensively. Its AC is 2 points lower than a CR 1/8's prescribed AC of 13, so the guidelines say we should move it down a notch defensively (to 0). Offensively, 18.5 damage per round puts it at a base CR of 2. Its attack bonus is 2 points higher than a CR 2's prescribed attack bonus of 3, so the guidelines suggest raising its offensive CR a notch (to 3). (3 + 0) / 2 = 1.5, and Ask Your DM whether to round up or down. These are the stats of a CR 1 Brown Bear, btw. I absolutely agree it's a badly-designed system. My favorite part is that the table is laid out backwards relative to the "process" by listing AC before HP and attack bonus before DPR.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:26
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MonsterEnvy posted:He came out at CR 9. His damage averaged at 50 a round at +9 to hit. 138 hp AC 17 with a large amount of resistances that made his hp effectively 199. How would you say that compared, in play, to other CR 9 monsters? Like... a treant averages 32 dpr, +10 hit, 138hp, AC 16. Seems like your guy hits a lot harder, and apparently resistances don't factor in but he's getting nearly +50%hp from them?
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Feb 6, 2017 00:34
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AlphaDog posted:How would you say that compared, in play, to other CR 9 monsters? Yes but a treant has Animate Trees (1 day) Which pretty much adds two extra treants to the fight. Treant also resists bludgeoning and Piecing damage which puts it's effective hp to 207. (Also correction my guy only has 133 hp) Also Resistances do factor in. Particularly if the party does not have easy access to getting around them. At CR 5 to 10 they get a x1.5 hp multiplier if their resistances are hard to get around like resistance to non magical weapons. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 00:41
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yes but a treant has Animate Trees (1 day) Which pretty much adds two extra treants to the fight. Treant also resists bludgeoning and Piecing damage which puts it's effective hp to 207. (Also correction my guy only has 133 hp) So: 50dpr, +9 to hit, 133 hp, AC 17. Resistances at expected CR 9 bring the hp used for calculation up to 150%, which makes it 199.5 round up to 200. HP 200. CR 9 AC 17. CR 10 There's not 2+ points of difference, defensive CR gets determined by HP, it's 9. Attack +9. Cr 16 Damage 50. CR 7. There's 9 points of difference. Take CR 7 from the damage and add 4, 1 for every 2 points of difference. 7 + 4 is 11. Average 9 and 11. CR 10. Guess we should be comparing to a stone golem? HP 178 (267 if you use the formula for CR calculation with resistances), AC 17, +10 hit, 38dpr. Looks like your guy falls a bit short on hp this time, but it still doing more damage. Maybe that works out about even. Wait, what happens if we plug those stone golem stats back into the monster builder? HP (x1.5 for resistances) 267. Cr 14. AC 17. CR 12. 2 points of difference, lower the defensive CR by one point, 13. Damage 38. CR 5. Attack +10. CR 17. 12 points of difference, raise the offensive CR by 6 points, 11. Average CR... 12. I'm sure it'll be fine though.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:04
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My "solution" for the melee classes is to give them magical items they offer them more utility through abilities or magic. Granted I haven't had the chance to try this yet. The item I'm working on now is basically a chain shot gauntlet that can be used to scorpion pull people closer or as a grappling hook. I know it's not comparable to high level magic but it's my start.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:45
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Big Black Brony posted:My "solution" for the melee classes is to give them magical items they offer them more utility through abilities or magic. Granted I haven't had the chance to try this yet. The opposite would work nicely. Like a sword of Dissonant Whispers. The target has to burn its reaction to run away, so everyone in contact with it gets an attack of opportunity.
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Feb 6, 2017 02:03
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AlphaDog posted:So: 50dpr, +9 to hit, 133 hp, AC 17. Resistances at expected CR 9 bring the hp used for calculation up to 150%, which makes it 199.5 round up to 200. Immunities are a different thing actually. For a Stone Golem with CR 10 that means x2 effective hp. So 356 effective hp. Defensive CR 20 minus 1 for it's AC for a total of D CR 19 For for it's offence that would only be 4 points of difference. Think you misunderstood one of the determining things. The CR 5 attack bonus is +6 but the stone golem has +10. That is 4 points of difference so it increases to O CR 7. This also changes my guys offence CR as calculated by you. Equaling CR 9 with his attack not 11.
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Feb 6, 2017 02:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:Immunities are a different thing actually. For a Stone Golem with CR 10 that means x2 effective hp. So 356 effective hp. Defensive CR 20 minus 1 for it's AC for a total of D CR 19 ...maybe I did? Let me try again. Stone golem CR as per monster manual 10. --Defensive CR-- HP 178 (x2 for immunites) Effective HP 356. Cr 20. AC 17. I look at the AC for CR20. It's 19. 2 point difference between that and the 17 the stone golem has. So I subtract 1 point from the CR I got from the HP. Defensive CR: 19. -- --Offensive CR-- Damage 38. CR 5. Attack +10. I look at the attack bonus for CR 5. It's +6, but the stone golem has +10. that's a 4 point difference, so I add 2 to the CR I got from the HP. Offensive CR: 7. -- Average 19 and 7... CR as per calculator: 13
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Feb 6, 2017 02:47
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GruntyThrst posted:Okay I've got a new group I'm playing in that has a bard and a rogue, so I'm thinking I'll be something beefy. My question for you is this: are martial classes super boring and/or gimped in 5e? I'm skimming the thread but to be fair it's 853 pages. Martials are pretty good until like level 5, which by the way takes for-loving-ever, and according to everyone falls off after that. Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight paths are cool imo for the extra options. If your table will eventually multiclass then starting martial has tons of benefits no matter where you go.
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Feb 6, 2017 03:15
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AlphaDog posted:...maybe I did? Yep this is correct. Though if he is considered CR 13 then he would only get x 1.5 from his immunites. Which would put him at O CR 7, D CR 13. Which would actually put him at CR 10 on the spot. So he is correct if you give him the x1.5 for resistances instead of the x2 for immunites. The Stone Golem is an awkward spot for determining his CR by the book. As he is close to CR 11 were he is considered not to benefit as much from his immunites. But he is at CR 10 were he gets too much benefit according to the monster making rules. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 03:23
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If you set the expected CR 10 like it says it is in the book, then use the monster building rules, a stone golem is CR 13. If you then use the same rules to build the same monster but set the expected CR to 13, it ends up being CR 11. Glad we cleared that up. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 04:35
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Is there any guide for creating magical items based on character level? I want to hand out more loot to my players as they get to level 5 but don't want to overpower them.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:50
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empathe posted:Is there any guide for creating magical items based on character level? I want to hand out more loot to my players as they get to level 5 but don't want to overpower them. Just give them whatever seems cool and nerf it if it ever turns into a problem. It ran out of magic dust / aboleth spleen oil / arcanocrystals. The runic inscriptions need to be refreshed. It's out of power and operating in emergency mode. Then when they're at a level where the original thing would be appropriate, restore it. They find a supply of the right stuff. They find a dude who knows how to do the runes. They find a dude with the last iphone charger in the known world. A passing god looks at it and goes "Heh, I made those back before I knew what I was doing. Here, let me fix it up for you".
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Feb 6, 2017 05:03
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GruntyThrst posted:Okay I've got a new group I'm playing in that has a bard and a rogue, so I'm thinking I'll be something beefy. My question for you is this: are martial classes super boring and/or gimped in 5e? I'm skimming the thread but to be fair it's 853 pages. Yes, and sorta unless they have a specific feat. Martials on their own don't really do enough damage to justify not being a moon druid for beefiness or a warlock for damage. This can be alleviated in one of two ways. 1) Multiclass. Specifically, the paladin/sorcerer. This guy can nova like no other, with the downside that you're novaing, and thus setting all your spell slots on fire. That said, even without a nova, they can do incredible damage and are probably the best melee "class" in the game. 2) Polearms. PAM + GWM. Outside of paladin/sorcerers there is literally no other melee option that comes close to this one. Dual wielding is loving garbage, and the defense bonus shields gives pale in comparison to the massive damage boost PAM + GWM gives if you can score advantage. But none of that changes the fact that there are absolutely no cool things you can do in melee. Welcome to "I attack" forever.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:53
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Big Black Brony posted:My "solution" for the melee classes is to give them magical items they offer them more utility through abilities or magic. Granted I haven't had the chance to try this yet. I already like to take inspiration from Legend of Zelda in terms of dungeon design so I think this is insanely good. I'm actually a huge fan of magic items like this that have obvious uses in combat but also outside of it. During the last session of my Basic D&D game my players decided to give the group Fighter a potion of giant strength so he could clear some rocks in their path, thus opening a quicker way to traverse the dungeon they were in without having to take various detours. He kept one of the boulders around for the next combat and went on to throw one at an enemy, effectively one-shotting it. That was fun. I should start taking more obvious cues from the Legend of Zelda games, especially from A Link to the Past since it has some of the best environmental puzzles combined with the environment being an important factor in combat.
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Feb 6, 2017 10:25
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