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Inepta Lacerta posted:Hey, what's that sound? Oh... it's just me screaming internally, because that is a terrifying mental image. Honestly a Trump-Hand Banana is too easy a target. He's already pretty much a confirmed rapist after all.
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Feb 2, 2017 11:32
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throw to first drat IT posted:Hejsan, jag kommer här att bringa kultur. Jøss, de fant Ligur på gata i Oslo?
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Feb 2, 2017 12:28
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Anyone still believe that the unions will lead your glorious socialist revolution? http://arbetet.se/2017/02/03/fack-gar-back-utan-aktier/ Also lol at the investments in H&M, Capio Investor and the banks. Apparently sweatshops, making money on healthcare and banks are not an issue. I am also guessing Åkesson feels rather happy today with regards to Ekeroth.
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Feb 3, 2017 12:10
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The trade union movement is in general very cool and good, hth.
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Feb 3, 2017 12:13
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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A few months ago there were rumours (probably fuelled by Nyheter Idag/Chang Frick, #1 poo poo stirrer EU) that Kent Ekeroth was one of the big obstacles that kept M from approaching SD was Kent Ekeroth. His potential removal from the scene now sure is serendipitous for both parties.
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Feb 3, 2017 13:00
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Cardiac posted:Anyone still believe that the unions will lead your glorious socialist revolution? I'm sorry, what would you prefer that Unions do with their leftover money? I guess they could be activist investors but at these amounts only Union really has any leverage. This is just them being financially responsible towards their members.  Reminds me of when you were whining about ETC using the tax system exactly like it's structured to be used.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:07
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MiddleOne posted:I'm sorry, what would you prefer that Unions do with their leftover money? I guess they could be activist investors but at these amounts only Union really has any leverage. This is just them being financially responsible towards their members.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:10
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evil_bunnY posted:Are you being daft on purpose? Have you never talked to your bank rep about investing in non-poo poo index funds? Please, for example, IF Metal pumping money into Investor has nothing to do with reaping returns and everything to do with being on good terms with key players in union negotiations. As the article explains it's only listing the unions not already using funds. Plus, this representation of ownership is misleading as hell since it's counting in MSEK instead of percentages. EDIT: They could get better returns on investment by investing in your bog-standard index fund but then again is return really all that there is to these investments? I wouldn't say so, I was simply responding to Cardiac's assertion that unions were being hypocrites by being part-owners of multi-national corporations. Something that everyone in this thread who has ever worked already is through their pension and daily consumption. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 20:13
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How are you so goddamn dense, they should return the left over money to their members.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:27
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They're not Systembolaget, if they run a deficit for a number of years with no back-up they're out. They're being financially responsible by squirreling funds away in ways that benefit their members long-term.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:29
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MiddleOne posted:Please, for example, IF Metal pumping money into Investor has nothing to do with reaping returns and everything to do with being on good terms with key players in union negotiations. MiddleOne posted:As the article explains it's only listing the unions not already using funds. Plus, this representation of ownership is misleading as hell since it's counting in MSEK instead of percentages. MiddleOne posted:EDIT: They could get better returns on investment by investing in your bog-standard index fund but then again is return really all that there is to these investments? MiddleOne posted:I wouldn't say so, I was simply responding to Cardiac's assertion that unions were being hypocrites by being part-owners of multi-national corporations. Something that everyone in this thread who has ever worked already is through their pension and daily consumption.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:29
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evil_bunnY posted:I'd say they're hypocrites from a bunch of different angles, but also that trying to throw shade at the union instead of the system is highly anti-revolutionary. The commissar will be here shortly, comrade. See, we're on the same page after all. 
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Feb 3, 2017 20:31
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MiddleOne posted:They're not Systembolaget, if they run a deficit for a number of years with no back-up they're out. They're being financially responsible by squirreling funds away in ways that benefit their members long-term. This is a really fine line to walk. Unions are not there to invest for profit, they are supposed to operate on their membership fees, and also depend on those fees.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:31
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doverhog posted:This is a really fine line to walk. Unions are not there to invest for profit, they are supposed to operate on their membership fees, and also depend on those fees. Unions are here to protect their members working rights and they might use any means they recognize as gainful to do so. The idea of workers part-owning their workplaces and therefore the dividends of their production is not a bad thing. Sure, there are less risky alternatives but in some of the cases listed in the article the political reasons for the unions investment decisions are pretty clear.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:34
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Be it Church or Union, gathering property and capital that is ultimately controlled by the leadership of that institution, when that is not their actual purpose, is harmful and results in corruption. Unions are there for collective bargaining, not what you are talking about.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:39
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That's a very... Idealistic vision.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:42
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Also, what could be a better investment, than the lives of their real living membership? Way too much money is tied in various abstract investments, wouldn't it be better to let your union member buy a new car? It would also stimulate the economy a lot more. It is not idealism, it's just you who are wholly corrupt and bought into the corruption you've been fed. *edit* Ok, it is idealism. Now I turn over to you the burden of proof as to why that is a bad thing. doverhog fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 20:44
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Literally anything. They need sources of capital that can be liquidated in the event of a major strike. It's not about being corrupt, it's about playing at the same terms as your opponent. Unions and employment organizations are both constantly lobbying for legislative change beneficial to them and for that they need funds. If they pretend that they're not operating within a capitalist system they have none.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:46
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You won me over, well done. Unions are actually good.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:58
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doverhog posted:Be it Church or Union, gathering property and capital that is ultimately controlled by the leadership of that institution, when that is not their actual purpose, is harmful and results in corruption. Unions are there for collective bargaining, not what you are talking about.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:58
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MiddleOne posted:I'm sorry, what would you prefer that Unions do with their leftover money? I guess they could be activist investors but at these amounts only Union really has any leverage. This is just them being financially responsible towards their members. It is more a question of rhetorics versus practice. I have no problem with them doing that, I am after all an union member. I just find it at odds with their holier than thou in other areas.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:59
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That's more understandable and I can respect that even thought I'm way too pragmatic to feel the same.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:02
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The unions in question maybe aren't the most ideologically driven? I'm talking about Unionen, Ingenjörsförbudet, Handles, SEKO.... now if Syndikalisterna were on that list I'd totally agree.
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Feb 4, 2017 12:49
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Svartvit posted:The unions in question maybe aren't the most ideologically driven? I'm talking about Unionen, Ingenjörsförbudet, Handles, SEKO.... now if Syndikalisterna were on that list I'd totally agree. They are the one that matters. Syndikalisterna doesn't matter. The high rhetoric that often come from the unions is often at odds with their own practice, examples Kommunal last year, gender distribution within the union boards. The concept " it is ok if we do it" is easy to label as hypocritic.
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Feb 4, 2017 13:17
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I don't even know where you got the idea that mainstream unions are supposedly against stock markets or explicitly socialist.
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Feb 4, 2017 14:43
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People who has no idea about unions, posting about unions on the Internet? That's shocking! :O
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Feb 4, 2017 18:10
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lilljonas posted:People who has no idea about unions, posting about unions on the Internet? That's shocking! :O 
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Feb 4, 2017 18:11
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cinci zoo sniper posted:You could say that I am getting, uhh, flashbacks. No but seriously I'm a union board member at work, and a ton of the stuff we do are basically: a) try to get the management to realize when the balance between tasks/assignments and resources are completely out of whack b) act as mediators, by trying to tell the management what people on the floor are complaining about so that it doesn't come as a complete shock when people get pissed about their decisions c) discuss wage discrepancies and check that no employees are discriminated against Rubbing our hands about making money over blood diamond investments while figuring out how to overturn the country for a secret Leninist cabal is not really a part of the daily routine. You would probably get a shock about this extremely top secret fact: the majority of union members in my workplace are not even leftists
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Feb 4, 2017 19:30
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lilljonas posted:No but seriously I'm a union board member at work, and a ton of the stuff we do are basically: And this is what I expect of the union. Good work. Safeguarding the workers rights is the unions core duty. On the other hand considering LOs and S very tight connections the difference between party politics and actual workers rights is sometimes debatable. Especially nowadays with the lowering ratio of union members and as well as S voters within LO.
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Feb 4, 2017 19:52
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lilljonas posted:Rubbing our hands about making money over blood diamond investments while figuring out how to overturn the country for a secret Leninist cabal is not really a part of the daily routine. You would probably get a shock about this extremely top secret fact:
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Feb 4, 2017 20:07
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evil_bunnY posted:Exactly what a someone rubbing their hands about making money over blood diamond investments while figuring out how to overturn the country for a secret Leninist cabal would say gently caress Cardiac posted:On the other hand considering LOs and S very tight connections the difference between party politics and actual workers rights is sometimes debatable. Yeah it's a great surprise that the unions are kind of supporting the parties that are not out to, you know, get rid of unions or at least make sure that their tools for supporting workers' rights are as restricted as possible. Clearly it's a conspiracy at play. The entire Alliansen, and SD as well, are so far up Svenskt Näringsliv's rear end that there is no alternative. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 20:17
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lilljonas posted:gently caress
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Feb 4, 2017 20:32
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Leninist cabals rules everything around me.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:34
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MiddleOne posted:Leninist cabals rules everything around me. I wish
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Feb 4, 2017 21:24
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Savage Cracker posted:I wish
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Feb 4, 2017 22:08
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lilljonas posted:gently caress In Denmark, they were literally the organization in the beginning, but split up into a political arm 'Socialdemokratiet' and professional arm 'the Union' (there was only one at the time, later named LO). If anyone is surprised that they share many of the same goals, they are loving morons.
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Feb 6, 2017 22:12
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Svartvit posted:The unions in question maybe aren't the most ideologically driven? I'm talking about Unionen, Ingenjörsförbudet, Handles, SEKO.... now if Syndikalisterna were on that list I'd totally agree. I don't know what Ingenjörsförbundet is, but Sveriges ingenjörer is just moderater representing moderater most of the time.
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Feb 7, 2017 00:30
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Dunno how political this really is but Hans Rosling was just announced dead. http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/hans-rosling-ar-dod/
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Feb 7, 2017 17:40
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BigglesSWE posted:Dunno how political this really is but Hans Rosling was just announced dead. huge loss, he was a good and funny guy working with statistics. a unicorn if you will
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Feb 8, 2017 09:25
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BigglesSWE posted:Dunno how political this really is but Hans Rosling was just announced dead. More sad than political really. 
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Feb 8, 2017 09:45
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