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RedSnapper posted:Whatever you do, don't scroll down to the comments under an article about it. I already made that mistake - to make it worse I did it five minutes after my sister told me the news from my father's workplace (Of course we won't fire a 60 year old with a spotless record and a heart condition just for working for the wrong police force 28 years ago. We'll just give him ALL THE NIGHT SHIFTS until he quits). I'm sorry for your dad. They have to make up money somehow for all the social programs they're funding and cutting pensions of people who "worked for an oppressive totalitarian state" (as if it was possible not to back then) is a convenient way for them to do that. Its not right and its not fair, but it plays well with their nationalist supporters and they're desperate for money. I saw an interview with the former squad leader of GROM (Polish special forces) and he's going to get hosed too because he worked for 18 months in the Army for the communist government, and then 23 years in the 3rd RP being deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq among other places. Its not an accident that all of our important general staff resigned within the last several weeks including the leader of the Armed Forces. Hell we don't even have a four star general anymore in the entire Armed Forces because they all quit. Its a goddamn shitshow.
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Feb 4, 2017 12:50
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They're pretty clever in covering it under "deubekizacja", i.e. cutting pensions for former functionaries of the communist secret police. That's understandably a popular move, because those dudes were indeed universally hated assholes and got to take much higher-than-average pensions for doing a job that actively made the country a worse place. The whole spin in the pro-government media is squarely focused on those people, even if in reality they're just a small minority of those being hit by the law. I read the right-wing rags semi-regularly and they never, ever mention former cops or soldiers. They don't even try to defend that part, they just pretend like it doesn't exist and the law pertains only to SB officers, so if you protest, you're supporting retired oppressors getting cushy lifestyles. It's honestly just one social program they're funding though, 500+. It's big and spectacular and supposed to cover up everything else that's lacking (like health care and senior care), and indeed they're desperate to fund it through weird cuts. Because of course they won't just loving raise taxes like a normal government does when it puts 1,5% of GDP into a massive social program (which, by the way, was indeed sorely needed). It's part of the whole "cheap state" myth everybody cultivated for ages, that we supposedly have a big, bloated state apparatus that needs to be reduced, so increasing budget revenue is still off the table. Their support base has bought into the low-tax low-bureacracy story too hard, look what happened when they floated that "unified tax" reform - absolute knee-jerk outrage, even though it was a reasonable idea that would actually help the small, low-profit-margin business owners who got angry because MUH TAXES. Of course in reality the massive waste is a myth. If it was ever a thing, everything has been cut to the bone over the past decade. There's honestly very little to cut without jeopardizing basic functions of the state: the police force is underfunded, hospitals are underfunded, municipalities are drowning in debt, the rail network has been reduced to only connecting the major cities, and local administration is so desperate for cash they save by hiring cleaners on zero-hour contracts. Still, getting new tax income is politically infeasible, so they're looking for savings in increasingly weird areas. The right has propaganda'd itself into a fiscal corner.
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Feb 4, 2017 13:38
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To go into a bit more detail - when I said "wrong police force" I meant my father actually was an employee of the dreaded SB from about 1985 till '89. JHe is, of course, now counted among the same people who beat up opposition members and spied on students but I'm still to find out how exactly he opressed people from his office in the Economy security division (Pion ochrony gospodarki). I mean, there was that guy in my town that became a self-proclaimed Solidarity martyr after being arrested by the MO for stealing building supplies... E: I think I'd be a lot less pissed about the whole thing if I didn't personally know a son of a guy who DID stamp out opposition in '81 and who now got a cushy governmental job for being friends with PiS higher-ups.. RedSnapper fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 13:57
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Pretty big Romania update: PSD leader "Might consider repealing the ordinance" that people have been protesting about. Nothing official so far, but it seems like they've started making GBS threads their pants. Biggest protest in country's recent history (might be entire history) scheduled for tomorrow night. We'll see.
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Feb 4, 2017 14:04
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Mr Underhill posted:Pretty big Romania update: PSD leader "Might consider repealing the ordinance" that people have been protesting about.
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Feb 4, 2017 14:29
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Well, here's hoping that Romanian government backs down and doesn't gently caress over the entirety of the recent progress. In other EE-news, Dugin is "humbly" circlejerking himself over this article.
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Feb 4, 2017 14:39
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Mr Underhill posted:Pretty big Romania update: PSD leader "Might consider repealing the ordinance" that people have been protesting about.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:08
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Meanwhile in Latvia, government coalition party approval ratings continue their freefall. Surprisingly enough, we may end up with municipal and parliamentary majorities comprised of business-savvy (self-proclaimed) social democrats (a.k.a. "the Russians"), since quite literally every other party will have to agree with each other to make it out with a government. One that will be a flaming wreck the next day or so.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:37
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RedSnapper posted:To go into a bit more detail - when I said "wrong police force" I meant my father actually was an employee of the dreaded SB from about 1985 till '89. JHe is, of course, now counted among the same people who beat up opposition members and spied on students but I'm still to find out how exactly he opressed people from his office in the Economy security division (Pion ochrony gospodarki). Okay yeah that's one of the two or three areas where they didn't focus on stamping out opposition (that, and the ones who were basically government bodyguards). Most of SB was a pretty nasty organization though. In the end though this indeed has nothing to do with who you were in the 80's, and everything to do with who you are now. People who were part of the oppression apparatus (like that prosecutor, Piotrowicz, boy what a piece of work) and now swear loyalty to PiS are very valuable to them - because they're easily controlled, what with there being an obvious and simple reason to dispose of them at any time. Anybody who was someone in the communist era and hasn't switched sides is, in turn, an easy target to push to the margins of society. Hell, even if you were an active Solidarity member who went to prison, you still get to be called a post-communist because, uh, reasons.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:42
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Here we go, something from the C SPAM Trump thread to bang your head against. https://twitter.com/jpaceDC/status/827881807467143169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw quote:Senior officials have been soliciting guidance from national security agencies on how to improve relations with Russia, asking what Washington could offer Moscow and what Trump should seek from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Tillerson requested a briefing on moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, one of Trump's campaign promises.
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Feb 4, 2017 16:53
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Russia is going to have to put men in Belarus to protect them against foreign invaders.
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Feb 4, 2017 17:13
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Russia is going to have to put men in Belarus to protect them against foreign invaders. But Lukashenko already said Russia can't put their base in Belarus after all. What a mess.
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Feb 4, 2017 17:17
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Osmosisch posted:I'm obscurely proud of my kickstarter $ helping with this. Godspeed, Romania. Thanks!!! Dwesa posted:Any news on how are they doing in most recent opinion polls? Not yet. Good news is that this has moved from a controversial statement from chief evil gently caress Dragnea himself on one obscure news outlet - so basically little more than a rumor - to everyone on TV now saying the prime minister (read Dragnea's sock puppet lackey boy) is going to release an "important statement tonight". Which everyone is saying will announce the repeal. Still, many opinions that this is some kind of ruse to get people not to go out in the streets... Well, if it is that (I don't believe so), it ain't working. Tens of thousands are already marching toward the govt building, the intention being to surround it in a huge holding-hands-o-rama. What is encouraging is that the biggest political pundits and journalists are already congratulating the people on their victory, if in somewhat vague terms. And I think they're being vague because - and I can't really express this well enough because my legalese is super lacking, both in English and Romanian - it remains to be seen if it's going to be a repeal or a straight up canceling. From what I understand the best scenario would be second, but either would mean a victory in the face of the party that controls 45% of the Parliament, and is the de facto ruling clique. If we do win - and it looks like we are - not only is it a huge step forward for the anti-corruption movement and democracy, it's going to create a heck of a precedent - they'll know the era of them pulling any kind of vile poo poo like this is gone, and we'll know we wield more power than we had suspected. They shot themselves in the foot by trying to pass the most defiantly evil piece of legislature since we took down the Communist regime in 89 three weeks into their administration. And their first reaction to the protests was of such arrogance and reassured haughtiness that they pushed the majority of the undecided over the line and out of their homes. Hubris is a bitch! Either way, I have never seen everyone I know so determined. My entire facebook feed consists of people encouraging each other not to believe a word the PSD say until the ordinance is dead and buried, and go out and march again, bring their kids, and any kind of walk-able pet (see the giraffe pic from one of my previous posts). The weather's already up by a fair amount of degrees, there's a light drizzle out but it will not change anyone's minds. Thanks for all your words of encouragement, fellow goons. Maybe, if this has the positive outcome it seems it will, it'll inspire more peoples like ourselves, who've been conditioned for years and years to be obedient and unenthusiastic, to get out there and maybe shake things up a bit, 'cause hey, sometimes you do win against the obnoxious bully. So yeah, this is shaping up to be a beautiful reminder that you don't need to burn the government building down for poo poo to change, maybe just let them know you are out there and you care. I"m going out in half an hour, and it really feels like I'm achieving something. I have never in my life seen so many people on the streets of my tiny town. I know it's such a cliche but it does feel like people are just waking up from a long and paralyzing slumber. Good, good feeling. Mr Underhill fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 17:29
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Mr Underhill posted:I"m going out in half an hour, and it really feels like I'm achieving something. I have never in my life seen so many people on the streets of my tiny town. I know it's such a cliche but it does feel like people are just waking up from a long and paralyzing slumber. Good, good feeling. Good luck my friend. I'm also going out to protest in Bucharest for the 5th night in a row. I don't trust the government one bit, even if now they are talking about taking back the executive order. As long as Dragnea and his corrupt reign over the social democrats continues, we shall never be safe. I fear this will not be over any time soon, but for now we continue to protest.
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Feb 4, 2017 17:51
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Here we go, something from the C SPAM Trump thread to bang your head against. I guess there was a reason the phone between Trump and Putin wasn't recorded.
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Feb 4, 2017 18:11
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Mr Underhill posted:I"m going out in half an hour, and it really feels like I'm achieving something. I have never in my life seen so many people on the streets of my tiny town. I know it's such a cliche but it does feel like people are just waking up from a long and paralyzing slumber. Good, good feeling. I must say - I'm pretty jealous. Goodspeed, Romaniagoons
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Feb 4, 2017 18:31
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Haha that orange goober is going to sell us out so loving badly. Wonderful.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:37
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What is the takeaway from that? Trump is going to allow Putin to take over Belarus by claiming to defend it from Polish aggression? Trump is going to allow Putin to invade Poland because the Poles were aggressive first in Belarus?
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Feb 4, 2017 20:42
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My limited understanding is that Poland wouldn't be able to defeat Russia if they went toe to toe but it would prob be very long and drawn out for Russia? Is that correct? If so and with Russia's economy being i the toilet can they really afford multiple excursions into bordering territories?
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Feb 4, 2017 20:52
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OddObserver posted:Weird: Russia decided to start guarding border with Belarus. Belarus is going to allow a five-day stay in the country for foreign citizens without obtaining any visas or registration. Understandably, Russia now wants more control over the border.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:57
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Fabulous Knight posted:What is the takeaway from that? Trump is going to allow Putin to take over Belarus by claiming to defend it from Polish aggression? Trump is going to allow Putin to invade Poland because the Poles were aggressive first in Belarus? I'm not sure we can deduce actual policy from whatever the Trumpwreck enquires about, see the contradictory messages about Israel or Turkey, the stealth continuation of (some) Obama policies or the zigzags on NATO. Until we actually see actions, I'd be skeptical. Still, let us be prepared for anything. The simplest takeaway is that there are some stupendously ill-informed people in that bunch, which is quite horrendous on its own. Go Romanians, make the fuckers tremble!
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Feb 4, 2017 21:05
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I'm seeing reports that the Romanian government has given in to the protesters and withdrew the draft decree.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:06
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hitchensgoespop posted:If so and with Russia's economy being i the toilet can they really afford multiple excursions into bordering territories?
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Feb 4, 2017 21:33
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:I'm seeing reports that the Romanian government has given in to the protesters and withdrew the draft decree. Fingers crossed. anilEhilated posted:I'm not sure they let minor details like that bother them. With Russia heavily engaged in Syria and Ukraine, I think they are honestly spread too thin to do anything.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:36
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Why exactly did they introduce this decree in the first place, it doesn't look good for anyone involved. Were they trying to cover for some of their own, or setting things up for future corruption?
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Feb 4, 2017 21:38
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Broken Cog posted:Why exactly did they introduce this decree in the first place, it doesn't look good for anyone involved. Were they trying to cover for some of their own, or setting things up for future corruption?
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Feb 4, 2017 22:09
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On the street now. They announced officially they will look into pulling it, but people are not buying it.Even if they do, who will trust them now? It isnt looking good for this govt, train is in motion and not stopping anytime soon!
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Feb 4, 2017 22:17
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Mr Underhill posted:On the street now. They announced officially they will look into pulling it, but people are not buying it.Even if they do, who will trust them now? It isnt looking good for this govt, train is in motion and not stopping anytime soon! Good luck! I hope this mood continues to last even if this law/decree doesn't pass, gotta fight for what is right/
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Feb 4, 2017 22:32
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:I'm seeing reports that the Romanian government has given in to the protesters and withdrew the draft decree. Nothing is over! The prime minister said they would have a cabinet meeting tomorrow in order to withdraw or DELAY the decree. Until they withdraw it officially and we're sure they do it in such a way that it has no future legal consequences, we're still going to protest. We can't trust them after the stunt they pulled. And even if they do withdraw it, they said they were going to push the law through parliament, where they have the working majority. They are never going to stop until all their people get out or avoid jail. Tariceanu, one of the majority leaders (and also under investigation for corruption), even came out on tv tonight to say that maybe the British were right to pull out of the EU, that they (the government) did nothing wrong with the decree and all of this is an attempt to overthrow the lawful government. These people are never going to stop until they have free reign to pillage this country, but luckily the people are catching on to them and we're finding our voice. I love that our protests have been peaceful and that we're having such a big impact, but the future looks bleak. I hope it doesn't come down to us having our own Euromaidan, but at this rate it looks like all bets are going to be off soon.
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Feb 4, 2017 23:23
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Zak2k12 posted:Nothing is over! The prime minister said they would have a cabinet meeting tomorrow in order to withdraw or DELAY the decree. Until they withdraw it officially and we're sure they do it in such a way that it has no future legal consequences, we're still going to protest. We can't trust them after the stunt they pulled. And even if they do withdraw it, they said they were going to push the law through parliament, where they have the working majority. They are never going to stop until all their people get out or avoid jail.
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Feb 4, 2017 23:28
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Thanks for this! Exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Would be nice to find a resource with the full dataset of the conflict.
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Feb 4, 2017 23:45
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Just checking in to say that I love what you Romanians are doing and I really hope you tear that law down, preferably with the rotten politicians that are responsible for it.
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Feb 5, 2017 00:33
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Zak2k12 posted:Nothing is over! The prime minister said they would have a cabinet meeting tomorrow in order to withdraw or DELAY the decree. Until they withdraw it officially and we're sure they do it in such a way that it has no future legal consequences, we're still going to protest. We can't trust them after the stunt they pulled. And even if they do withdraw it, they said they were going to push the law through parliament, where they have the working majority. They are never going to stop until all their people get out or avoid jail. This is kind of a stupid question in 2017 but how did they get elected?
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Feb 5, 2017 00:41
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so i befriended Eduard Basurin (Deputy defense minister of the DPR) on FB many months ago with my alt account as a joke but now it's actually paying off. From his account yesterday: quote:
Numbers with a grain of salt obvi but wowza
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Feb 5, 2017 00:46
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What is so wowza about information you can hardly trust even in the slightest capacity?
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Feb 5, 2017 00:52
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cinci zoo sniper posted:What is so wowza about information you can hardly trust even in the slightest capacity? Ukrainian reports say 23 KIA so far since the 29th. That's a massive difference. I'm not saying there's anywhere near that number of soldiers likely killed, but the report sorta exhibits the level of violence and conflict there has been over the last several days. On the point of the mobile crematoriums, I remember hearing that claim leveled against the NAF/Russian side of the conflict back in 2014. When did that switch sides?
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Feb 5, 2017 00:57
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That hasn't really switched sides, there's just less telling about Russian occupied territories these days.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:07
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Fabulous Knight posted:What is the takeaway from that? Trump is going to allow Putin to take over Belarus by claiming to defend it from Polish aggression? Trump is going to allow Putin to invade Poland because the Poles were aggressive first in Belarus? At long last, a restored corridor to Kaliningrad 
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Feb 5, 2017 01:44
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MeLKoR posted:This is kind of a stupid question in 2017 but how did they get elected? We had the lowest voter turnout ever in Romania. Only 39% of the people voted, that means about 7 million people in a country of about 19.5 million. The ruling coalition of PSD (social democrats) + ALDE (liberal democrats) got a little over 50% of the vote by promising a string of populist reforms such as increased state wages, pensions, and lower taxes. This entire amnesty and changes to the penal code that people are so worked up about was never a part of their campaign discourse. Another thing that factored in was the complete collapse of the other parties. PNL (the national liberal party) suffered from a string of scandals and desertions, while the only other opposition was USR, a brand new party created mainly by young people, and PMP, a party created by the former president that has managed to gain little traction overall. It is also worth noting that we have a huge divide between the city and the countryside. People who live in rural areas are generally very poor and rely on PSD for assistance. Small rural towns are ruled with an iron fist by mayors who tell them who to vote for or actually offer bribes to the people in the form of food or small amounts of money (think less than 50 dollars; I know, it's ridiculous). That is why protests generally happen in the large cities, who usually vote for the liberals. People in the rural areas either accept the fact that they have to rely on the PSD, or they are too afraid to speak out. In the cities, most people view PSD as the inheritors of the communist regime, that is why they are called the "red plague", a phrase you can hear very often these days at the protests. Their founder, Ion Iliescu was also the first president of Romania after the fall of communism, and he is infamous for squashing pro democracy protesters in the 90s by calling on the coal miners to come to Bucharest. The result was a bloodbath. He also had such catchphrases as "communism wasn't bad, they just implemented it wrong" and so on. His legacy left us very weary of PSD presidential candidates, and since then they have never succeeded in winning the presidential election, a thing that bothers them immensely. The man who came to power in PSD after Iliescu was Adrian Nastase, who was also the prime minister of Romania in the early 2000s. He ran for president in 2004 and lost, and in 2012 he was sent to prison on corruption charges. The next major figure in PSD was Mircea Geoana, who failed to win the presidency in 2009 and was later kicked out from the party after internal struggles. Next in line for the PSD leadership was Victor Ponta, who acted as Prime Minister from 2012 until 2015. He tried, and failed, to oust the President via referendum, and in 2014 he lost the Presidential election even though he was favored to win. He was plagued by accusations that he plagiarized his doctoral thesis, and by a corruption investigation that resulted in him being sent to trial (not yet resolved). In 2015 after a night club fire that killed 64 people in Bucharest, people took to the streets in protest of government negligence and he was forced to resign as prime minister. The current leader of the party, Liviu Dragnea, was convicted of electoral fraud in 2015 but received a suspended sentence, and he is currently being sent to trial (it just started) for further corruption charges. Many say that these desperate attempts to change the penal code are aimed at keeping him and others from his party out of jail. It is also worth noting that throughout time and currently, many high ranking PSD members have been convincted or accused of corruption. This is also true of other parties, but since PSD is the largest and most influential, it makes sense. I can answer if anyone has more questions about Romanian politics or the current political situation, and I'll try to keep it neutral when it comes to history. Most of these things can be easily looked up and verified. My own opinion is that right now PSD and ALDE are riding on the anti-EU hype train and are going to try to steal anything that isn't nailed down and try to keep their own people out of prison by weakening all the justice reforms and institutions created in the last 20 years. I am sure there are good and honest people in both parties who want a rule of law, but their leadership is literally made up of convicted felons or people under investigation for corruption. Things are looking bad.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:56
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GreyjoyBastard posted:At long last, a restored corridor to Kaliningrad I think even NATO's published briefs about the Suwalki Gap. Apparently this is strategic and the fear is Russia will invade to take control of it. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/suwalki-gap.htm
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Feb 5, 2017 04:11
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