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Beeswax is also cheap. A pound of it in nice little chips on amazon is like 10 bucks or so and will basically last you forever and is useful for all sorts of projects around the house (cutting board finishes, etc)
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Feb 3, 2017 20:48
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ilkhan posted:So I made some things. Started December 1st, finished yesterday. Bed, 2x night stands, and a tall dresser / chest of drawers. My first real woodworking projects, so I kind of went straight to the deep end. I still need to edge trim the nightstands/bed, but it might be a little while before I get to that. The finish looks even and seems like good construction overall. Leaving the edges unstained is an interesting choice. How did you build the drawers?
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Feb 3, 2017 21:27
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Speaking of old used tools, are these old Craftsman table saws worth working with at all? http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tls/5987679946.html
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Feb 3, 2017 21:45
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Heads up: Gramercy Holdfasts are back in stock at Tools for Working Wood, just grabbed a pair for myself.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:24
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If I had only one power tool it would be a lunchbox planer. They are that useful.
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Feb 3, 2017 23:06
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wormil posted:The finish looks even and seems like good construction overall. Leaving the edges unstained is an interesting choice. How did you build the drawers? There are definitely things I'd do differently if I were to redo them (yay learning!), but for a first effort? They're pretty awesome. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 00:12
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Falco posted:Speaking of old used tools, are these old Craftsman table saws worth working with at all? Yes. That's a tool from when Solid as Sears meant something.
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Feb 4, 2017 00:22
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ColdPie posted:Holy crap you live in the twin cities, too. Where do you buy wood? I've mostly been doing Forest Products Supply at 36 and Cty C, though I went to Youngblood in NE Mpls once, too. I was thinking of checking out a lumber mill south of the cities for wide boards for my work bench this Spring. Oh, hey, I've gone to Forest Products Supply a couple times for just like their cut offs. $6 for a few pieces of wood to make coasters with is a p good deal.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:07
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On the power tool recommendation topic: I'm pretty sure the general consensus on table saws (for US residents) is that the $600 delta sold at Lowe's is the best option anywhere near its price point (and it's probably the smallest and lightest saw you could buy and not feel the desire to immediately upgrade). I have no personal recommendation on table saws as I don't use them, but from seeing it in the store it seems like a quality machine. For a sliding compound mitre saw I highly recommend the craftsman compact 12" which retails for around $250 depending on sales and is imo the equivalent of many saws costing twice as much. For a midi (~12", optional extension bed) lathe the delta and the jet are both solid machines. I don't know of a universal drill press recommendation, I'm personally probably going to replace my Craigslist find with the floor standing Jet one day. For bandsaws there are just too many good options to recommend one, the best option for you is going to come down to a lot of factors. For lunchbox planers the DeWalt 735 is pretty much the standard as mentioned in the previous post. Of course if you can find vintage iron in good shape you will often get more for your money.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:43
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GEMorris posted:On the power tool recommendation topic: I'm pretty sure the general consensus on table saws (for US residents) is that the $600 delta sold at Lowe's is the best option anywhere near its price point (and it's probably the smallest and lightest saw you could buy and not feel the desire to immediately upgrade). I have no personal recommendation on table saws as I don't use them, but from seeing it in the store it seems like a quality machine. Of course the two things I'm considering other than the planer is a bandsaw and a drill press :p
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Feb 4, 2017 10:09
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What do you plan on using the bandsaw for and do you have 220V? That will help narrow your search.
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Feb 4, 2017 10:12
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Meow Meow Meow posted:What do you plan on using the bandsaw for and do you have 220V? That will help narrow your search. Yeah, the bandsaw recommendation comes down to your space, intended use, and budget. As for drill press, I highly recommend finding a $200 or less older floor standing drill press on Craigslist. For whatever reason used drill presses are drastically cheaper than new ones, they just seem to depreciate more than other tools, and it isn't difficult in my experience to find a used one that is in good shape.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:48
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Ok, these holdfasts are kinda magical. It's pretty incredible how much they clamp down.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:06
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GEMorris posted:As for drill press, I highly recommend finding a $200 or less older floor standing drill press on Craigslist. For whatever reason used drill presses are drastically cheaper than new ones, they just seem to depreciate more than other tools, and it isn't difficult in my experience to find a used one that is in good shape. Also there isn't much that can go wrong with them, as long as the bearings and motor are ok. I picked up one for nearly free, and all it needed was a new return spring and a chuck key.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:29
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Hubis posted:I was going to hand-plane the wood, as an exercise in setting up and using babbys first plane. Am I being dumb? This may also depend on if you have anyone local to help show get your planes set up properly the first time. As someone who started by buying a pair of planes off eBay and then sat down in front of Youtube trying to restore them, not knowing what you a 'correct' plane should do when it is set up makes it much more difficult to get eBay planes up to usable condition. I don't have a ton of time to work, but it took me many hours to figure out how to level a board, and I still haven't really nailed down the process for mating two boards so they match up along their entire length, as evidenced by the huge gaps in the laminated top in earlier photos. I actively want to avoid power tools as much as I can, but I am strongly leaning towards buying a real nice bandsaw and that Dewalt planer, just to take some of the time off the beginning of projects. Zhent fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 22:16
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GEMorris posted:Yeah, the bandsaw recommendation comes down to your space, intended use, and budget. So what would be a rec for the following conditions: garage (i.e. not really space-constrained), general resawing and shaping (and to eventually make a chair like this), and... hell, I don't know, is under $300 even possible? I don't think I need a bandsaw for that, but it might make things a lot easier. Which, to be fair, can be said about pretty much any tool.
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Feb 4, 2017 23:51
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Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:38
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Falcon2001 posted:Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards. That's one of the primary uses for a bandsaw: relatively safe ripping. You might need to switch out the blade for something a bit more tasked to the job, but if you're able to rip along the bandsaw's fence you should be in business. Trabant posted:So what would be a rec for the following conditions: garage (i.e. not really space-constrained), general resawing and shaping (and to eventually make a chair like this), and... hell, I don't know, is under $300 even possible? I got a 20" Inca (unicorn fart) for $400 or 450 I think. 14" two wheelers sell all day for sub-$300.
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Feb 5, 2017 02:15
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Falcon2001 posted:Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards. Compared to a table saw, handsaw, or circular saw, it's easier to accidentally move away from a straight cut on a bandsaw. However, with the correct setup and practice, you can rip perfectly straight lines on the bandsaw, and as Phone noted it's inherently less dangerous than any circular saw. Safety rules for bandsaws basically amount to "don't touch the blade; don't use your hands to apply force towards the blade, in case you slip."
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Feb 5, 2017 02:27
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Falcon2001 posted:Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards. It's a great idea. Going the mostly handtool route, a bandsaw/planer is the really badass work saving combo for building furniture.
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Feb 5, 2017 02:28
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Minor pic dump incoming! Today was the day that everything came together and really felt like real progress despite having a boatload of more work to do, but it was tangible progress, the best kind of progress. Finished up the second leg assembly (note: ugly rear end mortises due to me not knowing what the hell, I'll probably fill in the gaps later) and got the base good to go.  Table's done  The "knockdown" part  Ready for the top's interior to be cut down to size and laminated  An interior shot of all of the hardware in place  Notes from today: - Gravity helped close the minuscule gap on 3 out of 4 legs; probably going to shim one of the legs so that the apron is on it on it. - The top hardware went in fairly smoothly after the learning experiences from putting in the leg hardware. The plates have a 30% chance to be obviously banana'd, so I opted to use the flat head screws for the top plate's installation and didn't go nuts with the driver because I'd rather have the bolts go in straight and smooth versus torquing everything by getting the banana shaped iron plate flush with the leg assembly's top plate. - Schwarz's rule of "ignore what I say" paid off today. We had gone a little bit out of order early on because it made sense at the time, and it paid off today because we could skip several paragraphs of various sections. GEMorris planed the underside of the top before we had gotten the leg assemblies complete because one of the steps is "clamp the apron underside of the top to install the leg hardware so that you can finish the leg assemblies (top plate + stretcher)... it makes sense to have the underside nice and flat so that you can use it as a mated surface to mate other surfaces. - The assembled bench minus the laminated top is good 200lbs. We had to send the interior pieces (2x10s) through the joiner a million times to get them flat, so I'm missing a lot of assumed mass from the top, but it's heavy and solid from when we put the top in clamps. I'm on the fence for trying to thicken it up a bit right now because it actually might not need it. Got it into a table today, should be able to make some progress this week into making it into a bench. Full size gallery: http://imgur.com/a/OyIou Phone fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 02:34
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Trabant posted:So what would be a rec for the following conditions: garage (i.e. not really space-constrained), general resawing and shaping (and to eventually make a chair like this), and... hell, I don't know, is under $300 even possible? For that budget the primary answer is "find a 90's or earlier delta 14 inch." Which is a better plan imo than "buy a cheap new 14" bandsaw"." The next step up would be a 17-18" Grizzly (if you aren't space constrained and this is going to be your "main saw") and thats around the $800-$1000 price point. There are even better and more specialized options above that. Falcon2001 posted:Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards. It is completely reasonable and if your bandsaw is right near your bench it becomes quite natural. Its certainly not as fast as ripping with a table saw (as you don't "have" to stop and joint when you do that) but it is a good bit safer, and the bandsaw is a very versatile tool that makes less space demands than a table saw. Not trying to start a TS vs. BS fight here though so I will leave it at "Yes having only a bandsaw for ripping is completely viable for a hobbyist and it also happens to be how I operate".
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Feb 5, 2017 02:52
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Falcon2001 posted:Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards. It's a way of doing it. Faster than a hand saw but will require as much clean up. Table saw would do it better and faster. Table saw is the single most versatile machine you can own for Woodworking. Router is a close second.
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Feb 5, 2017 03:05
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wormil posted:It's a way of doing it. Faster than a hand saw but will require as much clean up. Table saw would do it better and faster. Table saw is the single most versatile machine you can own for Woodworking. Router is a close second. A properly set-up bandsaw, with a wide ripping blade, will absolutely not take the same amount of cleanup time as a handsaw. Two or three quick passes with a jointer plane is all it takes. Unless your tablesaw is set up absolutely perfect you will also need to clean up those edges with a jointer or jointer plane as well (I know you'll claim that you don't). A table saw is also the source of far far more dismembering incidents and emergency room visits than a bandsaw (and yes we all know chisels cause even more incidents). For a hobbyist who plans on doing primarily hand tool woodworking a bandsaw provides a safe way to perform donkey work (ripping by hand is a chore) while also providing a way to do things a table saw cant (cut curves, resaw safely) in a far less demanding package space-wise.
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Feb 5, 2017 03:16
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The fact of the matter is that if you want a machine for grunt sawing work, nothing is going to beat a tablesaw, nothing. Glue ready cuts with the right blade and a proper set up. (I assume you would properly set up any machinery). A TS will do rip cuts, crosscuts, dado/grooves, rabbets, cove cuts, and even moulding. And if you can use a bandsaw safely, you can use a tablesaw safely. Of course, they are dangerous if you are careless, just like bandsaws (ask Jimmy Diresta).  https://www.instagram.com/p/XggYC7poel/ edit; I will say that if you are on a budget or constrained by space, a bandsaw is a better first choice because a cheap bandsaw is better than no bandsaw whereas a cheap tablesaw can be frustrating and dangerous. VVVVV It's not an argument. VVVV wormil fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 04:13
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Oh look it's this dumb argument again. Bandsaws are a great primary saw for handtool woodworkers. Tablesaws are a great primary saw for everyone else. You two need to just gently caress and get it over with.
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Feb 5, 2017 04:22
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wormil posted:a cheap bandsaw is better than no bandsaw whereas a cheap tablesaw can be frustrating and dangerous. I have no dog in this fight but this is a good point - please don't make the mistake I did when starting and think that a contractor / construction style table saw [like this http://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/saws/table-saws/10-compact-job-site-table-saw-with-sitepro-modular-guarding-system/dwe7480 ] will do any good for woodworking beyond the smallest projects. I find it such a hassle to pull it out, find something to use for outfeed and to support the rest of the work that isn't on the tiny tabletop, etc. that I honestly would prefer to make everything but the largest rips by hand at the moment.
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Feb 5, 2017 05:07
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"the fact of the matter is" Gotta love it when someone starts with "I've decided I'm right, so I'm right" The number of emergency room incident data I found for the us said 38,000 table saw accidents in one year, 4,060 bandsaw accidents. You can't claim equal danger when one can't kickback (which is a huge source of those drastically larger quantity of emergency room visits). Yes I know more table saws are sold than bandsaws, but not 8x more. If you want to be a power tool centric shop where you do everything on the table saw like norm Abrams in the mid 90s then by all means you're going to need to get yourself a table saw. If you want to safely make good rip cuts while you focus on cutting joinery by hand then a bandsaw will do a perfectly good job while also doing a lot more, costing less, and taking up less space. The derision that gets thrown out for having to make a pass or two with a jointer plane is nonsense, we are almost all hobbyists here, not production shops. Cost and safety matter a lot. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 05:13
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Double post in case anyone wants to look at some numbers. One takeaway: I was expecting portable or jobsite saws to be involved in a much higher percentage of table saw accidents, turns out cabinet saws make up the bulk of them.
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Feb 5, 2017 05:26
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There's some magic happening in this table (about saws):
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Feb 5, 2017 05:46
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GEMorris posted:The derision that gets thrown out for having to make a pass or two with a jointer plane is nonsense, we are almost all hobbyists here, not production shops. Cost and safety matter a lot. There is no derision, no triggering, no Schwarz bashing (I have tremendous respect for the man.), I don't hate you, not trying to run you down, I'm not even angry, none of these false narratives you keep throwing out. It's just factual information. You may not like it, you may prefer a bandsaw, you might wish it were some other way but the tablesaw is unparalleled by anything else. Really I don't care which tools or machines you use or if you use any at all. It's like I told you before, what I don't like is your dogmatism that everyone has to do things the Chris Schwarz way or it's wrong and create the argument. You constantly shill his blog and books, you bash anyone that contradicts him or has a different way. I get it, he's your hero but there are many, many, fine woodworkers and many points of view and many ways of doing things. I know you don't believe me but Schwarz is not the first person to teach and revive old techniques, everything he does is built on earlier work by other woodworkers. It's out there if you go looking. I'm going to continue posting from my own experience, like I did in the thread before this one, and did before you and did during your absences. If you choose to take it personally and get angry or try to frame it as an argument that's on you.
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Feb 5, 2017 05:51
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Dude I was talking about how table saws aren't really safe, statistics back that up, and that bandsaws are a legitimate way to rip. What are you talking about?
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Feb 5, 2017 05:57
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I have 220V, but it's in the wrong drat place; the previous owner had the garage as his workshop, but it's not big enough to do that AND use my car and I assume most 220v bandsaws aren't going to be portable enough to go back and forth, so let's assume normal voltage for now. I'd rather have a bandsaw than tablesaw for a few reasons and frankly safety is on the list, but also space is kind of a problem; I generally agree with Wormil that a tablesaw is probably more versatile, but I can get one later if I find I need it. Mainly I'm just planning to use it for basic ripping and sawing and use mostly hand tools on things. So assuming that's my needs, what are some good buys? I'd rather not try and restore old tools, but I wouldn't mind secondhand. Any major things I should be looking for in terms of models or features?
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Feb 5, 2017 08:38
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I have an old Delta 14" right now and it's pretty much what most other 14" saws are copied from. It's good enough but not great. I have not done the Uber tune up from what's his name yet.
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Feb 5, 2017 08:45
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Falcon2001 posted:Is using a bandsaw for ripping going to be just the worst idea or is it feasible? I can clean up rough edges so it doesn't have to be perfect, but would prefer to not have to work with a hand saw each time for long boards. Bandsaws were made for ripping IMO, at least the bigger ones. One of the primary purpose of a bandsaw (or big circular saw made for ripping) is to dimension rough stock. I'm thinking of a 20-24" bandsaw, smaller ones are in my world view more meant for curves and the like. But you are not gonna get a new saw like that cheap. e: ripping and resawing might be blurring together in my head here a little. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 09:49
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The main thing I have found about using the bandsaw for ripping is that the wider the blade, then usually the better the performance. I prefer to have a 1/2" 3 tpi blade on my Inca; I've yet to try a 3/4" blade even though the saw does support it according to the specs. A narrow blade can deflect easier, so I try to keep a wide blade on my saw and swap in a narrow blade if I need to do curved work (which isn't often). Falcon2001 posted:So assuming that's my needs, what are some good buys? I'd rather not try and restore old tools, but I wouldn't mind secondhand. Any major things I should be looking for in terms of models or features? Delta/Rockwell made the cast iron frame 14" saw for decades. Up until the 80's the thing had very little if any plastic on it. If your price point is sub-$800 then I would be looking for one of those. If it has a fence that's great otherwise you'll need to add one if your main goal is ripping. A riser block is also nice if you want to resaw more than 6". The saw is not at the same level as modern euro steel framed saws (or Chinese/Taiwanese ones above the $800 price point) as it will have a bit more vibration and such (tuning can reduce this). Checking the condition of the tires and guide bearing will also tell you if you'll have to immediately spend $50 on maintenance items. The INCA 710 20" three wheel bandsaw often exists in the $400-$600 range. It's the only 3 wheel saw worth considering, but it's rare and parts are getting rarer as well. It's a right column saw (unlike every other bandsaw which is left column) which just happens to be very helpful for my shop layout (and probably why I'm unlikely to upgrade my bandsaw until I move). It has a lot of rip capacity in a small package and mine works well for me which is why I mention it as an option. Addendum: apparently the company that bought the remnants of INCA are making spare parts again, which is great news for me! GEMorris fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 15:26
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I'd really like a second bandsaw so I can always have a 1/4" 6 tpi blade and my glorious 1" 10 tpi blade at all times. Big high tooth count blades cut really well for long rips and following lines on complex Wandel style machine parts.
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Feb 5, 2017 16:32
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Hypnolobster posted:I'd really like a second bandsaw so I can always have a 1/4" 6 tpi blade and my glorious 1" 10 tpi blade at all times. Huh, I've never used a high tpi wide blade before as everything I had read said you needed large gullets to clear the sawdust. When you use that blade how fast are you feeding?
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Feb 5, 2017 16:41
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Zhent posted:I have no dog in this fight but this is a good point - please don't make the mistake I did when starting and think that a contractor / construction style table saw [like this http://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/saws/table-saws/10-compact-job-site-table-saw-with-sitepro-modular-guarding-system/dwe7480 ] will do any good for woodworking beyond the smallest projects. I find it such a hassle to pull it out, find something to use for outfeed and to support the rest of the work that isn't on the tiny tabletop, etc. that I honestly would prefer to make everything but the largest rips by hand at the moment. Like, I absolutely get the bigger the table the better, but there's a *lot* to be said for a saw that can be taken with you to a friend's to help him with a project. Sheet goods just get the tracksaw treatment anyway, as that's always felt easier than trying to feed a huge sheet of plywood into a saw with any degree of control.
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Feb 5, 2017 16:49
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Re: bandsaws, I bought the Grizzly 14" "Ultimate" bandsaw, and have been happy with it, with the caveat that I haven't used any other bandsaws to compare it against. But all of its adjustments are reasonably easy to reach, the fence is solid, and I've never had much trouble with vibration. The blade they ship with the saw is crap, but what else is new? I've been using Wood Slicer blades instead and been much happier. Do note that bandsaws need to be properly adjusted/calibrated before you can expect to get good cuts out of them. If you get a sort of wavy cut or one that looks kind of like a square wave, then your saw isn't adjusted properly. This is a somewhat fiddly process of moving bearings around until they just barely don't touch the blade, but in my experience my saw's been stable once adjusted, so you shouldn't need to do it often unless you're regularly changing blades. And yeah, I use a 3/4" blade for most cuts.
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Feb 5, 2017 16:57
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