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On the topic of RWM I haven't heard much about Master Shake in the thread lately, what the hell has he been up to?
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Feb 5, 2017 07:02
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Xibanya posted:On the topic of RWM I haven't heard much about Master Shake in the thread lately, what the hell has he been up to? Massive coronary, we all hope.
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Feb 5, 2017 07:03
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Xibanya posted:On the topic of RWM I haven't heard much about Master Shake in the thread lately, what the hell has he been up to? Aside from ATHF, who is Master Shake in this context?
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Feb 5, 2017 10:24
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Zipperelli. posted:Aside from ATHF, who is Master Shake in this context? Mark Levin
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Feb 5, 2017 10:33
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No he said besides ATHF. That's very obviously Master Shake's voice actor.
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Feb 5, 2017 10:42
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Mister Macys posted:70s. McGovern was the first, actually. (and yes I know that was actually a ratfuck and not a real campaign slogan)
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Feb 5, 2017 17:55
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Sure, I'll out myself as a small child here. "Acid, Abortion, and Amnesty" McGovern was against elements of the New Deal? To be sure McGovern simply got the ball rolling.    - American politics." is how the sentence ends.
Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 18:20
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Tiler Kiwi posted:the ability of the right wing to co-opt terms and get mad at things they were doing a week ago is pretty simple, really. they are hypocrites, with highly compartmentalized thinking, and do not do self reflection. they believe in what they want to. there's nothing complex about it, really. A nice cherry on top of this is the young white STEM libertarian wing of the party that insist that they alone have come to their beliefs through logic and reasoning and if only the rest of us idiots would just use logic we would have no choice but to come to the same conclusions as they have.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:57
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Human Tornada posted:A nice cherry on top of this is the young white STEM libertarian wing of the party that insist that they alone have come to their beliefs through logic and reasoning and if only the rest of us idiots would just use logic we would have no choice but to come to the same conclusions as they have. The worst part about this is that logic, reason, and history show that the conservative agenda is harmful to not only liberties, but also the economy. The wing of the Republicans that places any value in "logic and reason" is full of intellectual dishonesty and wishful thinking.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:45
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RasperFat posted:The worst part about this is that logic, reason, and history show that the conservative agenda is harmful to not only liberties, but also the economy. Logic means grossly misreading statistics in order to say, "If black people commit most crime then I can be justified in treating black people as inferior!"  "Oh what's this intersectionality stuff? Why do you hate logic and reason?????"
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Feb 6, 2017 02:30
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Exactly. Logic and statistics without the surrounding context may as well be lies.
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Feb 6, 2017 02:57
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Rick_Hunter posted:Logic means grossly misreading statistics in order to say, "If black people commit most crime then I can be justified in treating black people as inferior!" That's why I put logic and reason in quotes for them. It uses the rhetorical style of a data based factual argument, but its foundation is racist and sexist nonsense. The data is then warped and cherry picked to fit their bullshit narrative. "Women are paid less because they don't work as hard/gossip/are simply inferior to men" is a perfect example. Women are paid less so there must be a logical reason based off of performance. Ignore that women have been second class to men in society for basically all of Western history, and have only made any significant strides towards equality in the last few generations. And are groomed from birth to not be aggressive or even assertive. And are barred from being accepted and respected by the very real boys clubs that still exist in the upper echelons of business. Ignore all that and the only reasons left why women get paid less is because they don't work as hard or as well as (white) men. Same thing with minority issues. Same thing with issues of poverty in general. Same thing with anything that doesn't fit their bigoted world view forged from a position of privilege. It's post hoc justification for the injustices of society, blaming the victims instead of examining the system.
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Feb 6, 2017 03:45
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RasperFat posted:"Women are paid less because they don't work as hard/gossip/are simply inferior to men" is a perfect example. Women are paid less so there must be a logical reason based off of performance. Ignore that women have been second class to men in society for basically all of Western history, and have only made any significant strides towards equality in the last few generations. And are groomed from birth to not be aggressive or even assertive. And are barred from being accepted and respected by the very real boys clubs that still exist in the upper echelons of business. Ignore all that and the only reasons left why women get paid less is because they don't work as hard or as well as (white) men. My favorite part of that one is "women are paid less than men because they choose to go into lower-paying careers." Except the cause and effect are backwards there. Jobs like secretaries and teachers were once highly respected- it was only after they became predominantly female that they started being treated as the lower rung of professions.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:00
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Jurgan posted:My favorite part of that one is "women are paid less than men because they choose to go into lower-paying careers." Except the cause and effect are backwards there. Jobs like secretaries and teachers were once highly respected- it was only after they became predominantly female that they started being treated as the lower rung of professions. "If bosses can pay women 70% less than men, why wouldn't they just hire all women to save on costs?" 
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Feb 6, 2017 04:14
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Jurgan posted:My favorite part of that one is "women are paid less than men because they choose to go into lower-paying careers." Except the cause and effect are backwards there. Jobs like secretaries and teachers were once highly respected- it was only after they became predominantly female that they started being treated as the lower rung of professions. For a practical example, look at the difference between teachers and professors. Teachers are predominately women, professors are predominately men. One career is generally seen as prestigious and is relatively well-paid. The other is one of the most maligned and poorly paid jobs in America outside retail and the like.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:15
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Jurgan posted:My favorite part of that one is "women are paid less than men because they choose to go into lower-paying careers." Except the cause and effect are backwards there. Jobs like secretaries and teachers were once highly respected- it was only after they became predominantly female that they started being treated as the lower rung of professions. It's also ignoring the data because that number is for women working the same jobs as men, much less that women-dominated positions are maligned on top of that. It's that women engineers/teachers/actors are paid less than men in the same position.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:23
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Cythereal posted:For a practical example, look at the difference between teachers and professors. Teachers are predominately women, professors are predominately men. One career is generally seen as prestigious and is relatively well-paid. The other is one of the most maligned and poorly paid jobs in America outside retail and the like. LOL. Professors get paid dogshit.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:25
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Leofish posted:"If bosses can pay women 70% less than men, why wouldn't they just hire all women to save on costs?" Something, something, men's rights argument.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:30
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Shbobdb posted:LOL. Professors get paid dogshit. If you don't have a couple decades of published work or a Nobel Prize on your resume you won't get paid poo poo in academia.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:58
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Tiler Kiwi posted:the ability of the right wing to co-opt terms and get mad at things they were doing a week ago is pretty simple, really. they are hypocrites, with highly compartmentalized thinking, and do not do self reflection. they believe in what they want to. there's nothing complex about it, really. Far from all Republicans are authoritarian though, and there's lots of degrees to which those observations are applicable. I think a lot of it is preemptive FUD...just meant to confuse the issue. At worst, to engender attitudes that they're all bast Ardsley anyway so you might as well vote Rep.
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Feb 6, 2017 05:31
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Seriously. When I left my postdoc I took a crappy job as a field applications scientist. My salary was the same, starting, as I could have expected had I become a tenured professor at a respectable public university after a good number of years. Things have been awesome for me since. But yeah, we really gotta stick it to those overpaid professors.
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Feb 6, 2017 05:43
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Cythereal posted:For a practical example, look at the difference between teachers and professors. Teachers are predominately women, professors are predominately men. One career is generally seen as prestigious and is relatively well-paid. The other is one of the most maligned and poorly paid jobs in America outside retail and the like. You are almost right. There isn't much difference between salaries for professors and teachers once you account for the extra training professors get. In fact, in many places teachers are paid more than professors. Compare the union scale for NYC teachers with PhD and the union scale for SUNY professors at non-research campuses. The thing is what happens within academia. Professors at research universities are paid more than professors at teaching universities, and teaching is considered to be more feminine and research masculine. Which translates to things like how professors are treated. Research has shown that women are expected to do more service, spend more time preparing for teaching and so on. Related, teaching universities pay less than research ones. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 06:10
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*ignores the fact that benefits and paid sabbaticals and many other perks are a thing for professors vs other jobs that have the same "pay"*
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Feb 6, 2017 07:03
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Shbobdb posted:LOL. Professors get paid dogshit. One of my greatest disappointments was finding out this is especially the case for community college professors, right when I was ready to apply for grad school. I never desired any fancy university professor job, mainly cause I had no interest in doing research work, but now there's hardly any teaching option left for me (gently caress the k-12 system).
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Feb 6, 2017 07:06
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Mister Macys posted:To be sure McGovern simply got the ball rolling. What is this from?
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Feb 6, 2017 07:23
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DrNutt posted:*ignores the fact that benefits and paid sabbaticals and many other perks are a thing for professors vs other jobs that have the same "pay"* I'm in the bottom 10% of my profession when it comes to pay. I don't have a PhD; just a bachelor's. Well, two of them actually but still. I make more than many of the professors that prepared me to do the job. Most of them, in fact; staring professor wages in my line of work are on the level of "if you offered this to somebody they would laugh at you and walk out of the room" range. The ones that made more than me weren't up by much; the ones that made 50% more had been doing the job for over a decade. Professors are laughably underpaid.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:29
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I'm in the bottom 10% of my profession when it comes to pay. I don't have a PhD; just a bachelor's. Well, two of them actually but still. That's cool, you didn't really address the stuff that I said though, which had nothing to do with pay. jfc I am of the opinion that teachers and professors should be compensated well but I also don't ignore that there are a ton of perks from working in academia that just aren't there for many other jobs. I also have a hunch that if professors got paid banker money we'd have a lot of lovely professors, just like we have a lot of lovely moron bankers with BUSINESS DEGREES.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:36
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Never mind that it is a better decision to work at In-and-Out Burger from the perspective of benefits, lifetime earnings, work/life balance and/or chances for advancement.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:39
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Fuligin posted:What is this from? "Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?" - Thomas Frank Don't let the title fool you; the dude is in fact, a dyed in the wool bleeding heart. I also recommend his previous book, "Pity the Billionaire". The audiobooks are the way to go unless you plan on screencapping and pasting; he narrates them himself, so you can hear it in his own words. He and Michael Lewis are my current favorites for contemporary history.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:52
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DrNutt posted:I also have a hunch that if professors got paid banker money we'd have a lot of lovely professors, just like we have a lot of lovely moron bankers with BUSINESS DEGREES. Teachers that break the law actually suffer consequences for their actions, and their outcomes are listed by their institution rather than being obfuscated. They are also not evaluated based on their ability to bring in money directly, but rather on the satisfaction of their student reviews and their contributions to scholarly publications. Imagine if bankers were evaluated on the satisfaction of their customers.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:53
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DrNutt posted:*ignores the fact that benefits and paid sabbaticals and many other perks are a thing for professors vs other jobs that have the same "pay"*  do you even know what this is?
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Feb 6, 2017 07:56
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That Old Tree posted:
It's a privilege that someone flipping burgers will never loving know in their lifetime, rear end in a top hat.  A bloo bloo bloo my life as a university professor doesn't let me do donuts in Ferraris I guess I'll console myself by taking 6 months to wander Europe and work on my next great American novel. Anyone scoffing at the money a prof makes and talking about their ~*private sectory money*~ can rest easy that the rest of us are glad they're not in teaching or academia, because they'd be poo poo at it. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 08:14
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Yea dude. You have a book or something to show for it. I feel like a goddamn genius for majoring in hospitality management. I don't get how it is a growing field and almost no one has a degree.
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Feb 6, 2017 08:15
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DrNutt posted:It's a privilege that someone flipping burgers will never loving know in their lifetime, rear end in a top hat. Yes, the relevant comparison here is to an entry level service job. Frankly, those assholes at McDonald's should just be glad they aren't getting black lung like coal miners, right?
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Feb 6, 2017 08:24
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Hodgepodge posted:Yes, the relevant comparison here is to an entry level service job. Shbobdb posted:Never mind that it is a better decision to work at In-and-Out Burger from the perspective of benefits, lifetime earnings, work/life balance and/or chances for advancement. 
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Feb 6, 2017 08:28
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DrNutt posted:It's a privilege that someone flipping burgers will never loving know in their lifetime, rear end in a top hat. The reason he was asking if you know what it is is because paid sabbaticals are not paid time off. Sabbaticals aren't time off work. They are time where a professor gets a break from teaching and service obligations to focus on research. Now, yes, there are many perks to being a college professor. There is a reason why positions making 40k in the middle of Idaho still draw dozens of applicants. But none of those are monetary.
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Feb 6, 2017 08:44
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joepinetree posted:The reason he was asking if you know what it is is because paid sabbaticals are not paid time off. Sabbaticals aren't time off work. They are time where a professor gets a break from teaching and service obligations to focus on research. Now, yes, there are many perks to being a college professor. There is a reason why positions making 40k in the middle of Idaho still draw dozens of applicants. But none of those are monetary. The vast majority of Americans who will never get to know what taking a break from their lovely day-to-day job is like, even if it's ostensibly to focus on bettering yourself to be a better (whatever it is you do). So it's still a huge bonus even if it's still technically "work."
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Feb 6, 2017 08:57
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DrNutt posted:The vast majority of Americans who will never get to know what taking a break from their lovely day-to-day job is like, even if it's ostensibly to focus on bettering yourself to be a better (whatever it is you do). So it's still a huge bonus even if it's still technically "work." The point is that it is not "taking a break" from the job. Doing research isn't "bettering yourself." It is the most important part of the job for most professors, or 2nd most important part for others. Only institutions that don't require research are community colleges. If you want to argue that it is better than flipping burgers, go ahead. But that is moving the goalposts in a discussion that was about pay.
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Feb 6, 2017 09:14
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joepinetree posted:The point is that it is not "taking a break" from the job. Doing research isn't "bettering yourself." It is the most important part of the job for most professors, or 2nd most important part for others. Only institutions that don't require research are community colleges. If you want to argue that it is better than flipping burgers, go ahead. But that is moving the goalposts in a discussion that was about pay. It's not moving the goalposts when my sole point in the discussion was that there a ton of benefits beside pay that can make academia a rewarding career (including sabbaticals). To focus on pay in comparison to private fields without access to most if not all of those other benefits is deceptive as hell.
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Feb 6, 2017 09:26
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