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Two days ago, I plugged my compound miter saw into one of my brand-new workshop outlets, fired it up, and...the motor was kind of reluctant, then the brake didn't quite work properly. And then the outlet and all outlets downstream of it lost power. I took the blade off the miter saw and discovered it was loose, which I'm chalking up to the brake fighting the motor for...some reason. Put the blade back on, tightened the arbor down tight, and plugged it into a non-me-installed outlet and it works fine. I determined which junction box in the workshop had to be malfunctioning, opened it up, saw nothing wrong, untwisted and then re-twisted all the wire nuts...and everything seems to be fine, now. Aside from the mildly terrifying fact that my saw misbehaved. Normally my guess would be that I had a bad connection in that junction box that limited the amount of current that could reach the saw, leaving it underpowered and misbehaving, while also creating enough heat to damage the connection in the junction box. But like I said, everything was fine in the box; no signs of heat damage or anything. I guess it could also have been an intermittent connection, which would explain why the blade brake was behaving oddly -- I assume the brake cuts in when the motor loses power, and vice versa, so if power is toggling rapidly then they could end up fighting each other. But my real concern is, how do I detect if I have a problem like that in any of the other outlets? I've tested all of my outlets with a box fan, that being the device I can most easily move from point to point to test that they have power. But it doesn't draw much compared to my saw, and presumably copes with intermittent power just fine.
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Jan 29, 2017 22:27
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Two days ago, I plugged my compound miter saw into one of my brand-new workshop outlets, fired it up, and...the motor was kind of reluctant, then the brake didn't quite work properly. And then the outlet and all outlets downstream of it lost power. Checking the hot-neutral voltage with an AC multimeter is what I've done in the past.
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Jan 29, 2017 22:59
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For an update on my compressor, after looking over the manual more, I decided to keep my existing 20A wiring and put in the 20A fuse as suggested. That went painlessly. I replaced the outlet since the tension in the existing one was less than I would have liked. Got the 6-20P plug attached to the flexible 12/3 I bought and put spade connectors on the other end to wire it to the motor connections. Started up with no issues (glad I was wearing earpro though, loud as heck in the garage) and I ran the 30 minute break-in without trouble. Cycled it a few times later and everything seems to be working great. Thanks for the help earlier - sorry for all the confusion on my end. I still don't understand exactly why the NEC clearly says that 20A wiring is OK with a 30A breaker for a 230v single-phase 17 FLA motor, since it seems hosed up even if I had hardwired it, but it doesn't matter I suppose.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:00
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shortspecialbus posted:Thanks for the help earlier - sorry for all the confusion on my end. I still don't understand exactly why the NEC clearly says that 20A wiring is OK with a 30A breaker for a 230v single-phase 17 FLA motor, since it seems hosed up even if I had hardwired it, but it doesn't matter I suppose. So take that for what you will. There's a lot of poo poo in the NEC that is cumbersome and unused, because electricians default to what is sure to pass inspection.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:28
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Motors have the initial inrush current that is significantly higher than what it will draw after it has started rotation, which I know you are aware. To accommodate this, motors are protected with overload devices specifically designed to act slowly; an amount of current in excess of their protected value will pass through for a short time. However, if an overload condition exists for longer than just the initial startup, the overload device will trip and protect the motor and the wiring in the circuit. This is why you are allowed to over-fuse a motor branch circuit; the overload protector will not allow an overload condition to exist for long enough for the wiring to be damaged. But since the overload protection won't act fast enough to protect against a short-circuit or a ground fault in which dangerous and damaging amounts of current have to be stopped immediately, a fast-acting circuit protector is needed, either fuses or a circuit breaker. The circuit protector is allowed to be sized large enough to accommodate the motor inrush while still protecting against the current of a short-circuit. All of this is only allowed on specific motor branch circuits, which means that the motor is hardwired with nothing else able to use the circuit (along with requirements for disconnecting and controlling devices specific to motors). It's relatively rare to encounter a motor branch circuit outside a farm, commercial, or industrial space.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:37
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angryrobots posted:I found some reference to situations like yours, and it may be legal per 310.16, but is not general practice to use the rules for sizing wire feeding motors in a residential application, as it is more likely that circuits will end up being added onto or changed. Yeah, fair enough. There's a lot of conflicting advice on this one point to be sure. I figure with the scenario I have now, the worst case (excepting the compressor failing a weld and literally exploding, or the breaker AND the motor overload protection both failing and some crazy poo poo happening) is that I trip the breaker more than I want, in which case I just replace it with a 30A, rewire all 50 feet of the single-circuit run, and replace the outlet/plug/power cord with 10/2(3 for power cord) romex. I think the 20A will be fine for the moderate amount of use this thing will get, especially since about 20 test cycles went perfectly fine. The manual is annoying on this whole thing. Early in the manual it generically says you need a 30-40 amp circuit. Later, on the motor wiring schematic, it just says you need 20A service for the motor size I have, and 30A for the one bigger. I opted to go with the specific information for the model I have. Edit: On a moderately related note, god drat do I hate lovely masonry bits and trying to get concrete lag bolts into the crappy holes that they made 
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Jan 30, 2017 02:49
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I want to replace and install GFCI outlets in my kitchen (counter top) but I am puzzled on this. Code says the first outlet has to be GFCI as it will protect downstream outlets but If I have to pigtail everything then there is no downstream as everything is in parallel correct? So every outlet (only two) has to be a GFCI outlet?
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Feb 5, 2017 04:07
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knowonecanknow posted:I want to replace and install GFCI outlets in my kitchen (counter top) but I am puzzled on this. Code says the first outlet has to be GFCI as it will protect downstream outlets but If I have to pigtail everything then there is no downstream as everything is in parallel correct? So every outlet (only two) has to be a GFCI outlet? The GFCI outlet will have two pairs of terminals-- Line and Load. You'll attach the incoming power to line, then the wires heading downstream to load at which point all the downstream outlets will be protected.
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Feb 5, 2017 04:28
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Qwijib0 posted:The GFCI outlet will have two pairs of terminals-- Line and Load. You'll attach the incoming power to line, then the wires heading downstream to load at which point all the downstream outlets will be protected. I thought you couldn't do that as it "relied" on a device for continuity for a grounded conductor.
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Feb 5, 2017 04:54
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knowonecanknow posted:I thought you couldn't do that as it "relied" on a device for continuity for a grounded conductor. The ground doesn't go 'through' the GFCI, only the hot and neutral. It doesn't need to monitor the ground because it's already monitoring the current on hot/neutral. Any imbalance is going a different path, either ground, or potentially you and it trips.
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Feb 5, 2017 05:02
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the "grounded conductor" IS your neutral wire in the code book. the groundING conductor is your ground wire.quote:I thought you couldn't do that as it "relied" on a device for continuity for a grounded conductor. this isn't actually code, it's just something that is good in practice. but GFCIs are specifically made to work by splitting the incoming power from the outgoing...so it's fine.
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Feb 5, 2017 05:28
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hmm...  Thanks for the clarification.EDIT: 300.13B says quote:Device Removal. In multiwire branch circuits, the continuity of a grounded conductor shall not depend on device connections such as lampholders, receptacles, and so forth, where the removal of such devices would interrupt the continuity. So, from what I can barely understand is that GFCI's can work and be fine because the hot will be connected between the two outlets allowing the GFCI to protect the following outlets on the circuit. Which is irrelevant of the neutral being pigtailed. knowonecanknow fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 05:44
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knowonecanknow posted:hmm... You're getting confused by the semantics of the book. "Grounded conductor" = neutral, while "equipment grounding conductor" = ground. That has been a problem with the book for quite some time. Basically, GFCIs work by measuring the power leaving against the power returning. If those don't match within a very tight tolerance, then they trip their breaker. In order to do this, they need to monitor both of the cables attached to their hot and neutral load terminals in addition to their own outlets.
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Feb 5, 2017 06:13
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knowonecanknow posted:I want to replace and install GFCI outlets in my kitchen (counter top) but I am puzzled on this. Code says the first outlet has to be GFCI as it will protect downstream outlets but If I have to pigtail everything then there is no downstream as everything is in parallel correct? So every outlet (only two) has to be a GFCI outlet? Well, you're correct that if you pigtailed everything the GFCI wouldn't work. The hot and neutral leading to the downstream outlets need to be on the GFCI load terminals, don't tie either in with the line side. They both have to pass through the GCFI to detect faults and trip. If there's more than a single hot/neutral feeding power in you should tie all that together and pigtail to the GFCI's line side to comply with that.
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Feb 5, 2017 06:24
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Wait, so code doesn't allow you to use a regular receptacle the same way as a GFCI? Is the second set of screws intended to only be used as a secondary line (separate circuit and/or switched)? Because I've opened a lot of boxes in my time as an amateur, and outlets are *always* wired with the second set of screws acting as load, feeding another receptacle down the line. (To clarify - I'm not using my anecdotal evidence to suggest anyone's wrong, I'm just surprised at how common this possibly against code practice is in my area) Slugworth fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 16:34
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Slugworth posted:Wait, so code doesn't allow you to use a regular receptacle the same way as a GFCI? Is the second set of screws intended to only be used as a secondary line (separate circuit and/or switched)? Because I've opened a lot of boxes in my time as an amateur, and outlets are *always* wired with the second set of screws acting as load, feeding another receptacle down the line. Regular receptacles don't have a "load". If you want to further a branch from that box, you can use both screws or a wire nut. Both are fine, it's your choice. Of course if there are more wires that need to be joined together than screws in that box, a wire nut will need to be a part of that. However, you'd never see an electrician use both the screws and a nut. It's too... messy, plus it can make it more difficult to cram wires back in the box. Regular outlets have 2 screws per side whose pads underneath are joined by a little metal tab. If you want to separate the function of either outlet in a duplex, then you will need to remove at least the hot tab. The neutral tab only gets removed when dealing with separate circuits. GFCI, AFCI and other specialty outlets don't have those tabs. That means that they can't be split like a regular duplex can.
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Feb 5, 2017 20:20
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kid sinister posted:Regular receptacles don't have a "load". If you want to further a branch from that box, you can use both screws or a wire nut. Both are fine, it's your choice. Of course if there are more wires that need to be joined together than screws in that box, a wire nut will need to be a part of that. However, you'd never see an electrician use both the screws and a nut. It's too... messy, plus it can make it more difficult to cram wires back in the box. I'm afraid I'm confused then. You're saying if I have a hot/neutral pair coming from the panel to my first outlet, I *can* then use the second set of screws to feed the next outlet in line, right? That's how I've always seen it done. But that seems to be contraindicated by the bit of code being referenced a few posts up - Or am I misreading the code? By removing the first outlet, I would be breaking the continuity of the second outlet's grounded conductor (neutral).
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Feb 5, 2017 20:45
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Slugworth posted:I'm afraid I'm confused then. You're saying if I have a hot/neutral pair coming from the panel to my first outlet, I *can* then use the second set of screws to feed the next outlet in line, right? That's how I've always seen it done. Multiwire branch circuits are a special thing, they are when two separate circuits share a neutral. They are not your average circuit (which has multiple wires, but is not 'multiwire').
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Feb 5, 2017 20:51
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Ohhhhhh, duh, that makes sense then. Thanks!
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Feb 5, 2017 23:14
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I'd greatly appreciate some guidance on what direction to take here. Ultimate goal: Gut and renovate kitchen, modernizing wiring on the way. Problems: House from 1972, unknown collection of jackass previous homeowners, completely full electrical service panel and sub panel. The only ground the house seems to have is in that 1/2" conduit going out the bottom of the box, it has a ~12 gauge bare wire going down into the concrete slab. I haven't come across any grounding connections to the copper plumbing, and there is nothing bridging past the (plastic) water meter in any case. Most of the branch circuit wiring is armored cable with that aluminum bonding strip rather than a dedicated ground conductor. The main panel is also partially obstructed because of a wall some idiot put in for the down stairs bathroom. It isn't terrible, but it sure isn't 36" clear either. The main panel is also a travesty of a mess:  Off to the left is an 8 slot sub panel which is relatively well set up but also full. The sub panel contains the only modern wiring, with some circuits that actually meet current code (I think), and have AFCI breakers. I finally chased out and identified what is on every single circuit today. Naturally everything that is in the kitchen is not dedicated, but is a hodgepodge like: -Lights (Kitchen, Dining, Sink), over-range Microwave, Garage lights, Garage bench (West wall North) outlet, Garage South-East outlet, front of house outdoor lights and - kitchen counter outlets, Washing machine outlet (this is in the basement, under the kitchen). So, my dilemma is should I: A) Free up some breaker slots, jam AFCI breakers in, run new circuits for the kitchen. B) If allowed by my town without rewiring the house, pay $Thousands to have the main panel and service panel replaced with a single larger box, and then run new kitchen wiring. Fix/upgrade other circuits later once the kitchen is done. C) Same as B, but leave the main panel alone and only have a larger sub panel installed for the new kitchen wiring. Along with B or C, have ground rod (s?) driven and hooked up So I'd like to do B, but I don't know what kind of can of worms I might be opening up, and I have no idea what to expect for cost. This would have the advantage of also fixing the obstructed panel, I think - The service feeds are coming in at the bottom left of the photo, and the new panel could just be moved to the left. A is probably-maybe possible. We're switching from an electric range to gas, and I can disconnect the electric space heater in the basement that we never use anyway. That would give me 4 slots, and I could reclaim another from some dumb basement wiring*. These 4 slots would be coming out of the top-right area as pictured, and I'm worried that the main feeders might be in the way of AFCI breakers. But I don't know that I have enough wiring length to move other breakers around properly. Our disposal and dishwasher at least are already on dedicated 15 amp circuits, but fed from a tandem breaker. C would be easier if the town requires everything from that point on to be upgraded, but I really don't want to spend a bunch of money on that and not fix the real issues. * I have 3 breakers, 20 amp, each feeding one basement outlet that power a total of 1 water softener and 1 sump pump, which never actually needs to run. But, there is also a 15 amp breaker feeding 12 can lights in the basement, a chest freezer, a gas fired water heater, and the downstairs bathroom lights, fan, and outlet.... Raised by Hamsters fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 00:54
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devicenull posted:Multiwire branch circuits are a special thing, they are when two separate circuits share a neutral. They are not your average circuit (which has multiple wires, but is not 'multiwire'). Wow, yeah, that clears it up really well for me too. Thank you everyone for your input.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:59
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Raised by Hamsters posted:Problems: House from 1972 Any aluminum wiring?
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Feb 6, 2017 02:25
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kid sinister posted:Any aluminum wiring? Nothing that I've come across.
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Feb 6, 2017 04:58
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shortspecialbus posted:Yeah, fair enough. There's a lot of conflicting advice on this one point to be sure. I figure with the scenario I have now, the worst case (excepting the compressor failing a weld and literally exploding, or the breaker AND the motor overload protection both failing and some crazy poo poo happening) is that I trip the breaker more than I want, in which case I just replace it with a 30A, rewire all 50 feet of the single-circuit run, and replace the outlet/plug/power cord with 10/2(3 for power cord) romex. I think the 20A will be fine for the moderate amount of use this thing will get, especially since about 20 test cycles went perfectly fine. Companies do not want to be sued and so they will recommend the use of a 30amp breaker. In your case, with only 50 feet of 12AWG, you should be fine. Compare that to someone with a 20amp breaker running 200ft of old 60°C 12AWG to a receptacle connected to a flex cord and there could be a problem.
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Feb 8, 2017 19:03
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I am thinking of setting up some outdoor circuits for an outdoor kitchen and a shed. I am trying to figure out how deep I have to dig, what conduit to use, and what wiring to run into them. As a side note, I am not in a city jurisdiction, the county did not care when I filed for a permit, and the electric company only cared if I needed a bigger meter. I just want to get it right so I don't die. The outdoor kitchen will service: 2 recepticles. I would of course want GFCI protection An outdoor rated water heater of up to 20 gallons. I see them rated for 110VAC but I wonder if I should have 220 available. A separate light circuit existing in the house to handle some extra lights. It currently handles a single, sad light. I will be adding a step up to my pool operated with that light switch. What do I need to do to ground that properly? The shed is operating a around 8 LED lights and two receptacles that might at most run an air compressor. However, we may install solar on its roof and have wiring that can sustain sending that back houseward. The big issue right now is just getting the conduit right. I want to get that in place so I can pour concrete and continue on the other work. The impression I get is that I should use 1" PVC schedule 80 conduit for each of these lines separately dug 2 feet down. I guess combining lines in one conduit is a no-go. So for the outdoor kitchen, that is one conduit for receptacles, one conduit for the lights, and one conduit for the heater. The shed would probably be a single conduit with a fat line for a 50A subpanel or something. Just for giggles, is there a standard ground box to use for putting in outdoor light poles? PS: I already ran a bunch of plumbing around to the areas where I want hot and cold lines. None of that is particularly deep. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 07:26
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I am thinking of setting up some outdoor circuits for an outdoor kitchen and a shed. I am trying to figure out how deep I have to dig, what conduit to use, and what wiring to run into them. As a side note, I am not in a city jurisdiction, the county did not care when I filed for a permit, and the electric company only cared if I needed a bigger meter. I just want to get it right so I don't die. Call back the county and the electric utility and tell them "I am doing prep work to install X KW of solar on my roof." See if they give you better advice like 1.5" conduit at least 18" in the ground at the top of the pipe. There is a lot more power you need to backhaul with a solar installation and the utility will absolutely care about grid tied solar. Or ask a solar contractor about it. Say you're going to do your own permitted subpanel and you want it to be solar ready.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:51
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I am thinking of setting up some outdoor circuits for an outdoor kitchen and a shed. I am trying to figure out how deep I have to dig, what conduit to use, and what wiring to run into them. As a side note, I am not in a city jurisdiction, the county did not care when I filed for a permit, and the electric company only cared if I needed a bigger meter. I just want to get it right so I don't die. You'd probably be best off digging down 24" and running UF cable. Use some conduit and an elbow to protect the section of line next to your house, from where it exits your house and down to run depth. The same goes for the shed if it enters on the outside. That being said, there are other options for digging shallower if you do have to worry about digging through water lines, as shallow as 6". There's also the option for digging beneath those other lines by hand. Outdoors you need weather resistant, tamper resistant, GFCI protected receptacles with in use covers. You could out in a WR TR GFCI at the first box and use it to protect the WR TR outlets down branch. What kind of step needs electricity? Anyway, all of this work needs to be grounded. UF cable contains a ground wire. Everything will connect to your house grounding. Are you talking about post lights? They are usually supplied from underneath. Cable is run to the spot first with a long enough piece of slack on top to reach the light on top of the pole. The cable is ran through a section of concrete tight conduit just long enough to reach through the concrete, then the concrete footing is poured. The cable is ran through the pole, the fixture is mounted to the concrete.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:54
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H110Hawk posted:Call back the county and the electric utility and tell them "I am doing prep work to install X KW of solar on my roof." See if they give you better advice like 1.5" conduit at least 18" in the ground at the top of the pipe. There is a lot more power you need to backhaul with a solar installation and the utility will absolutely care about grid tied solar. Or ask a solar contractor about it. Say you're going to do your own permitted subpanel and you want it to be solar ready. If it matters, it is a co-op. They did not care over the phone. They did not care in person. Hell, they were mostly concerned the pole going to my house was old and needed replacing. Tied solar was very much a part of those discussions. If it helps, I am a little surprised too. I did not get any of that advice from them about conduit. I was winging it from what I could deduce from the code.
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Feb 12, 2017 08:51
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Yeah in general, utilities do not give two shits what goes on past the meter, or even know what NEC or local codes you should follow. We do care about solar, because we want to be aware of locations that potentially could backfeed the line during an outage. However, at such time that you actually install a PV array, you need to make sure your co-op has a net metering rate. The solid state meters we use now, only run one way. So, even if you turn the meter upside down, it still continues to count KWh accurately. So if you install an interconnected PV array and do not get on a net metering rate with a meter set up for it, any electricity that flows back to the utility will still roll the meter forwards. You'd be paying for the electricity that the utility is getting from you, lol. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 16:37
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I should give a little more context of what I'm doing in the shorter term here. I want to get one with the project and that means getting concrete poured, so I was hoping to get all the electrical conduits and their lines at least run through those areas. They can then be capped at all their destinations and wired later. My outdoor plumbing is already exposed, so it's a good time to use the trencher. It is hard to get electricians out that do the outdoor work right now for some reason so I was planning to just incrementally do as much of it as I can on my own to keep moving elsewhere. It may even hit a point where I just have them out there to set up the panels and connect to the main.kid sinister posted:What kind of step needs electricity? Anyway, all of this work needs to be grounded. UF cable contains a ground wire. Everything will connect to your house grounding. The location of the steps is a little dark right now and may still be when I put in the other lights, so we wanted to put a few narrow lights inside of it because pouring in the extra concrete. It's part an excess decoration, but part safety. If I am setting up all the lines for the light poles without necessarily having the lights themselves sorted out, what should I have in place before concrete is poured? angryrobots posted:However, at such time that you actually install a PV array, you need to make sure your co-op has a net metering rate. The solid state meters we use now, only run one way. So, even if you turn the meter upside down, it still continues to count KWh accurately.
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Feb 12, 2017 18:49
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A mspaint diagram with measured distances between these proposed locations would help answer your wire/conduit sizing questions. I'm not an expert on these solar installs, but generally they have a dedicated disconnect right beside the meter location, and the tie is made inside the meterbase. Now, that's just what I've seen, but I believe the disconnect is a requirement for the interconnect. So you may not be allowed to use the same conductor feeding your shed? That would be a question to ask your utility, see if they have a list of requirements for allowed PV installations. You may have to run a dedicated line for the PV, in which case, for now you just lay an empty conduit for future use.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:07
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My solar install has a separate disconnect and a clearly labeled breaker in the main panel, any production is backfed through there. My utility also requires the inverter to be no more than 10 feet from the meter, so in this case if the panels were on an outbuilding, you'd have to run the DC underground to that in a separate conduit probably. Even if you're using microinveters, it'd probably be a good idea to run that in a separate conduit anyway, and either way have a disconnect at the outbuilding so that you can de energize the underground run on a sunny day.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:25
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Okay this all gives me some topics to re-engage with the electric co-op. It could be that when I talked to them before, I didn't know the code words and incantations to trigger the right answers to things. A distance rule with inverters would definitely change things around. The shed's a good 50 feet away. I am also pretty sure the electricians I had bid have just ignored everything I said about solar because none of these concerns came up and nothing about it was every mentioned in walkthroughs of the bids. I am less impressed with them now. OTOH I should probably just see if I'm better off slapping the panels on my house's main roof. I don't think so though; it looks like my shed faces south better. I will doodle something in the next few days so you can see what I'm dealing with.
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Feb 13, 2017 09:10
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I should give a little more context of what I'm doing in the shorter term here. I want to get one with the project and that means getting concrete poured, so I was hoping to get all the electrical conduits and their lines at least run through those areas. They can then be capped at all their destinations and wired later. My outdoor plumbing is already exposed, so it's a good time to use the trencher. It is hard to get electricians out that do the outdoor work right now for some reason so I was planning to just incrementally do as much of it as I can on my own to keep moving elsewhere. It may even hit a point where I just have them out there to set up the panels and connect to the main. Well, UF cable and most cables aren't allowed to be in direct contact with concrete. You would have to use a liquid-tight conduit section anywhere it would be in direct contact with the concrete. That usually means something like PVC or liquid-tight flex conduit. Put an elbow on the bottom, then extend it up to 2 or 3 inches above the concrete grade. Run your cable through that conduit section, leave enough slack to hook up the lights on top of the pole and bundle it up. When it comes time to pour the concrete, ask them to center the conduit and leave a few inches exposed. Also, outdoor underground electric work and frozen soil don't mix. But yeah, map this out, figure out spacing and run depths for everything, then run conduit as necessary.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:59
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Well be careful what you wish for. I doodled an awful drawing, then my scanner died, and I was forced to try this other one that shoved it over to me as a PDF and took... liberties with it: I'm in Central Texas and don't have a frost line. Apparently I only have to go two feet for electric mains. Even 50A out to the shed can be done in 12 inches here. But again--I just don't want to die from all this. The water line is set. It goes off at the one end where I may have an outdoor shower next to the pool some day. Or something. The idea for the outdoor kitchen power is to following those pipes. For the lighting controlled by a switch, it is coming off of the one light on the patio already switched from inside. I used dashed lines to show where it roughly has to go, although in reality it will likely follow the same course as the electric lines going around the outdoor kitchen. I can't get under the existing slab if I did it as-is. That line to the shed is upwards of 100 feet. The fencing does not fully enclose my yard and I don't have to worry about running stuff close to my property boundary. I talked to the one electrician that I'll probably use today and made some understand on lines for solar. He kept thinking I just need one line and all because when he does generators, the line is de-energized when the generator kicks in. I explained to him that we have a slight problem there. At this point, I assume there's a line going out from the main to a subpanel for the shed, and there will be another line going back from the shed to the main when I get solar. Does that sound correct?
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Feb 16, 2017 21:42
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We want a nest thermostat but we only have two wires ran for the current tstat. I've read some hacking online but it seems pretty burn your house down. I would use my two wires to connect to r & w then I would install a 24v transformer and drop two wires from that and connect C and RC to make it work. It seems wrong to essentially be connecting two separate circuits together at the tstat. The run for new tstat wires will be a pain in the rear end unless I can run them to be like 100' long.
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Feb 17, 2017 22:00
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knowonecanknow posted:We want a nest thermostat but we only have two wires ran for the current tstat. I've read some hacking online but it seems pretty burn your house down. I would use my two wires to connect to r & w then I would install a 24v transformer and drop two wires from that and connect C and RC to make it work. It seems wrong to essentially be connecting two separate circuits together at the tstat. The run for new tstat wires will be a pain in the rear end unless I can run them to be like 100' long. Do you have either heating or cooling, not both? If so, you'd only need 3 wires: R, W and C.
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Feb 17, 2017 23:35
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It's only heat, but I think the idea of the second RC was to "complete" the circuit for the C? You can't have a completed circuit with only one wire right?
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Feb 18, 2017 03:44
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knowonecanknow posted:It's only heat, but I think the idea of the second RC was to "complete" the circuit for the C? You can't have a completed circuit with only one wire right? RC is the hot wire for cooling, RH is the hot wire for heating. Most modern HVAC units do both functions, so they combine them into one wire. Every thermostat you can buy these days will have a jumper wire bridging its RC and RH terminals, so that any hot power coming in to one R terminal gets sent to the other one. If you don't have air conditioning... Don't sweat it, lol. You don't have to "complete" something that isn't there, and your thermostat will still get power over the R wire.
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Feb 18, 2017 05:53
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| # ? May 10, 2024 01:03 |
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We're not talking about a line voltage tstat though right? Cause installing a nest on 120v would smoke it.
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Feb 18, 2017 14:29
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