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I wonder if Trump plans to suspend the PT Program if he intends to fill manning for all this new stuff.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:12
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CommieGIR posted:I wonder if Trump plans to suspend the PT Program if he intends to fill manning for all this new stuff. its what he means when he says a 'bigger' military
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Feb 6, 2017 20:13
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Proud Christian Mom posted:its what he means when he says a 'bigger' military Expanded bulkhead doors and tank cupolas for a 'bigger' force.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:15
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Thwomp posted:I've heard UBI as a solution before but, I believe, the basic problem to that is it is antithetical to the current American attitude towards work. Work provides meaning to many people, outside of just the income it also provides. And it shows up starkly in surveys where people who were unemployed but age into retirement age and then become "Retired" report instant improvements in their outlook. When Americans receive cash without working, I think many feel guilt and shame. Why not institute basic income and say "go if you feel guilty go volunteer or dig ditches or roads or something"
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Feb 6, 2017 20:16
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holocaust bloopers posted:They're all good Barrys, Brent WikiPedia posted:Barry Richard McCaffrey (born November 17, 1942) is a former United States Army officer, news commentator and business consultant. He received three Purple Heart medals for injuries sustained during his service in Vietnam, two Silver Stars for valor, and two Distinguished Service Crosses — the second-highest U.S. Army award for valor. 
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Feb 6, 2017 20:16
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Remember how fun it was when they were letting loving anyone in during the Iraq Surge? Well you haven't seen nothing yet!
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Feb 6, 2017 20:16
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Proud Christian Mom posted:D&D had a good thread about the rural problem and the options aren't very promising. You're talking about a workforce that is very unfit, very uneducated or both. The first thing Democrats / Liberals can do is hold the local politicians responsible. Yea I get many of these people voted for Obama but all the blame for their ills seems to go the top. Meanwhile their local politicians escape any sort of criticism for the fact their districts are piss-poor. For example, in the Kentucky state legislator they are represented by this Goonish looking man: https://votesmart.org/candidate/139843/toby-herald A democratic embracing a platform of fair wages, holding companies accountable, and a sprinkling of radical ideas (basic income?) could probably go a long way to courting these voters. Of course, this requires Democrats / Liberals to get out of their coastal safe spaces and put forth the effort of actually talking to people who may not, at first, agree with their views.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:23
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Solaris 2.0 posted:The first thing Democrats / Liberals can do is hold the local politicians responsible. Yea I get many of these people voted for Obama but all the blame for their ills seems to go the top. Meanwhile their local politicians escape any sort of criticism for the fact their districts are piss-poor. For example, in the Kentucky state legislator they are represented by this Goonish looking man: Democrats and their abandoning of labor aside, this requires voters to show some bit of introspection that I just don't think is possible. Politicians know this and every time some group starts to wise up another boogeyman gets thrown in front of them.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:31
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Thwomp posted:Now outside of changing the entire American ethic towards work, is there a way to still help people in economically distressed regions without making them feel also guilty? Is there a way to provide it as a choice that involves minimal self-guilt? And this still doesn't address region-wide problems. If everyone unemployed in western Kentucky suddenly received a UBI, would that be enough to lift the region out of economic death-spirals? Or would that replace said spirals with chain-store stripmall hells? call me a filthy capitalist or ignorant or whatever, but as a taxpayer, the entire concept of ubi is bullshit. whats my return on investment? i dont know poo poo about poo poo, but i can tell you that i would 100% rather the money that would go into ubi for sisterfuck ky instead go into infrastructure for sisterfuck ky. nearest freeway is an hour away? heres some money, go build a loving road and some exit ramps you dumb hicks. uneducated obsolete workforce? heres some money, go build yourself some loving schools. dont have internet? well poo poo guess the feds have to step in and lay some fiber whoops looks like you just joined the rest of us in the information age. cant hire quality teachers to staff those new schools? heres some money to triple their salary oh look adam smiths invisible rear end just pushed some teachers into your zip code for the first time since you could own people. and that shiny new addiction medicine center? that ones on us gently caress if im going to subsidize joe bob methmouth-oxycontins next pill score. if they wont work to improve their own condition in my hypothetical new deal tennessee valley authority ubi alternative tax and spendravaganza they really can just die
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Feb 6, 2017 20:33
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seriously a massive amount of work needs to be done a whole bunch of people are out of work if we raised taxes on the richest and lowered taxes on everyone else there would be a poo poo ton of money to spend wheres the huge mystery here
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Feb 6, 2017 20:36
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Sexual Lorax posted:call me a filthy capitalist or ignorant or whatever, but as a taxpayer, the entire concept of ubi is bullshit. whats my return on investment? Your economy won't collapse due to consolidation of jobs. That's it. Your payback is Capitalism will still work because people will be able to purchase things, because jobs are disappearing, not coming back. The lack of the jobs is the issue. Even if bumfuck Barry and his teeth lacking wife Giselda got off their rear end and went to look for work, for the large part the jobs just are not there. Period. UBI is going to be inevitable because unless the lower and middle class (whats left of it) can buy things despite the lack of employment due to Corporate Consolidation, the economy will fail.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:36
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a bunch of people who've been simmering in obesity and drug use soup aren't exactly a work force that is going to get you results
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Feb 6, 2017 20:38
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KildarX posted:Why not institute basic income and say "go if you feel guilty go volunteer or dig ditches or roads or something" We need a PR campaign with Joe Biden to talk about these issues. Democrats do a terrible job of explaining why a given thing is beneficial. All of their talking points assume everyone is a rational actor. There are some in the leadership that legit don't understand why the working poor are against obamacare. Get Joe Biden to go on talk shows address issues. Free education isn't a handout, its an investment in our country's future. ACA isn't a handout, its an investment to keep our workforce healthy so you don't ignore back problems and reach 60 a broken man. Helping out the poor isn't a handout, it's a stepping stone so you can elevate yourself. So people can not starve while looking for a job.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:38
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CommieGIR posted:Your economy won't collapse due to consolidation of jobs. That's it. Your payback is Capitalism will still work because people will be able to purchase things, because jobs are disappearing, not coming back. im not convinced my economy wouldnt collapse faster if we paid people to not do anything what im saying is that we create the jobs by saying "heres money to help you fix your own poo poo" instead of "heres money to facilitate your slide out of relevance" lets do a thought experiment. which of these has a better chance of bringing modern jobs to rural america in the long term? dear sisterfuck ky, heres a bunch of money, don't take too many pills at once, remember what happened to aunt darlene when you found her face down in the kiddy pool or dear sisterfuck ky, heres a bunch of building materials and tools and people who know how to use them. your mudhole is an embarrassment but you can make it into something you can be proud of and will help your children and grandchildren climb out of the hellscape that grew around you on your watch
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Feb 6, 2017 20:45
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Sexual Lorax posted:seriously money is not wealth
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Feb 6, 2017 20:46
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Sexual Lorax posted:dear sisterfuck ky, heres a bunch of building materials and tools and people who know how to use them. your mudhole is an embarrassment but you can make it into something you can be proud of and will help your children and grandchildren climb out of the hellscape that grew around you on your watch he sells all the stuff you gave him and he gets pills if youre going to assume everyone poor is on drugs
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Feb 6, 2017 20:46
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Option two has been done in a ton of tiny towns, usually trying to revitalize the old town square using federal money. Here's hoping it saves some communities but when I see some fancy little locally run boutique open next to the courthouse, I can't help but imagine Amazon and Wal-Mart will still crush it given time.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:48
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Third World Reggin posted:money is not wealth and cupcakes arent doorknobs either, so what am i missing here? rural america needs infrastructure improvements unfucking our tax brackets can pay for that work rural america gets jobs improving rural america, subsidized by the rest of the united states who collectively decide that its better for everyone if we dont leave rural america behind
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Feb 6, 2017 20:50
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Sexual Lorax posted:and cupcakes arent doorknobs either, so what am i missing here? That's called socialism. Socialism is baaaaaaad.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:52
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Hot Karl Marx posted:he sells all the stuff you gave him and he gets pills if youre going to assume everyone poor is on drugs im painting with some big brushes here but no i dont assume every poor person in rural america is on drugs, nor do i want to present this like ive figured out all the problems with it im just saying that given the option between paying people for nothing and paying people to improve their own loving backwater ancestral homes, i vote for the latter every time
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Feb 6, 2017 20:55
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Sexual Lorax posted:im not convinced my economy wouldnt collapse faster if we paid people to not do anything I mean, you could continue to pretend that anybody receiving Social benefits is a druggie with a dependency complex or you could stop pretending Capitalism is not dependent upon consumerism.  Sexual Lorax posted:im just saying that given the option between paying people for nothing and paying people to improve their own loving backwater ancestral homes, i vote for the latter every time This isn't going to magically create jobs. That's the issue: The Jobs are not coming back. Like, at all. Current return rate, if they came back would be 1 job for ever 100-200 that we exported. Even China is fully automating nearly every industrial job. One, because no company is going to shell out a bunch of capital to fund jobs they don't need, and two because we've modernized. Its not Ford's Assembly Line anymore, nobody is needed to be there, robots do much better and have fewer errors and better return. The jobs are gone. Zip. Not returning. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 20:54
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We do desperately need a bunch of infrastructure work but you're the one on drugs if you think that work is going to be handled locally by Pete and Joe's Paving Company(Pete died 22 years ago from a heart attack)
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Feb 6, 2017 20:57
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Sexual Lorax posted:im painting with some big brushes here but no i dont assume every poor person in rural america is on drugs, nor do i want to present this like ive figured out all the problems with it And this is where I find my shift key and very slowly back out of the room embarrassed that I mistook the GiP Current Events thread for the C-SPAM Trump thread. Sorry for the rant, here's hoping I didn't poo poo up the discussion too much. 
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Feb 6, 2017 20:56
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Sexual Lorax posted:call me a filthy capitalist or ignorant or whatever, but as a taxpayer, the entire concept of ubi is bullshit. whats my return on investment? Other people are already saying decent things on this, but let's paint a picture of how this could play out. Let's say we instituted a UBI of, like, $24,000 a year per adult and along with that, we expanded Medicare to cover all age ranges. Forget the logistics of that for now. This is purely for the sake of argument, and I'd be happy to talk logistics if you happen to think what I describe here is a worthy goal. So, yeah, let's say every adult gets $24,000 per year, straight up, split up over weekly direct deposits or something. And their healthcare is through Medicare. There's still doctors in private practice -- it's just that we're all on the same insurance and it's not tied to your job. On the one hand, you can survive on $24,000. You're not living in luxury, but with that you can have food to eat and a roof over your head. And once you're confident that you'll always have this coming in...you realize you can spend it. People stashing whatever percent of their income for their eventual retirement suddenly realize it doesn't need to sit in a bank -- they can use it now, because when they get old, they'll still have $24,000 coming in every year. The point is...this money gets spent. It all goes back to drive the consumer economy. Goods need to be manufactured, services need to be provided, etc. That money is constantly going back to stoke the fires of consumer demand. On the other hand, a lot of people will want to have more money than $24,000. There's dope poo poo out there to be able to buy...why wouldn't you want to have some nice things? And why wouldn't you want to do something meaningful with your life? I've been unemployed...it does suck. It feels lovely. But if you already had $24,000 coming in, maybe you can be selective about the kind of job you take. And the kind of boss you work for. And how many hours you work. Why do people need to work 40 hours a week? If you're fine with the amount of money you bring in at 20 hours a week, why do we have so many structural reasons to make you work 40? If we're short on jobs, wouldn't splitting one job into two by dividing up the hours make sense? And maybe not having to worry about putting food on the table or meeting your 40 hours a week to get health care would mean that more people could take the risk on starting their own new business. How many beneficial start up ideas were abandoned because someone just couldn't take the risk? How many people didn't become scientists because of the potential financial risks? I'm not saying there isn't more to do to make the country better, but I think if you instituted those two things...we'd be well on our way.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:59
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Reverand maynard posted:We need a PR campaign with Joe Biden to talk about these issues. Democrats do a terrible job of explaining why a given thing is beneficial. All of their talking points assume everyone is a rational actor. There are some in the leadership that legit don't understand why the working poor are against obamacare. If instead of UBI, that money went to lifelong education/training credits (community college, not private/for-profit schools) and universal health care, wouldn't that serve as a more respectable way of kickstarting peoples' lives again? I haven't looked at numbers but if it's similar in cost it would give people more purpose than just money for doing nothing (although microfinance theory being applied globally is in favor of just money, but likely serving other purposes). Adding to that small business grants and infrastructure investment and then jobs could have a comeback. A problem seems to be the GOP having their optics game down pat, spewing off negativity about words ("liberal", "welfare"). FDR and New Deal-era policies made things sound more respectable ("Works Progress Administration", "Civilian Conservation Corps"). I think technocratic liberals don't focus on language and the emotional aspect of the issues, and if all you did was give people work and meaning and false hopes, they'd feel fulfilled. Can an economic system work if human capital loses relevance? e: unbutthurtable posted:And maybe not having to worry about putting food on the table or meeting your 40 hours a week to get health care would mean that more people could take the risk on starting their own new business. How many beneficial start up ideas were abandoned because someone just couldn't take the risk? How many people didn't become scientists because of the potential financial risks? Basically what I was trying to get to. That said what about the issue of outside competition? Questions like these make me want to study developmental economics Suicide Watch fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 21:03
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unbutthurtable posted:(more patience with my dumb rear end than I deserve) I am probably too insulated by my own situation and indoctrinated by the WORK UNTIL YOU'RE DEAD "ethic", but--very sincerely--UBI feels like far off science fiction stuff. After automation demolishes other sectors beyond manufacturing, I accept that it's going to make a lot more sense. Thanks for discussing in good faith when I was being intentionally obnoxious, if honest in my argument. and for your service lol
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Feb 6, 2017 21:07
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Suicide Watch posted:If instead of UBI, that money went to lifelong education/training credits (community college, not private/for-profit schools) and universal health care, wouldn't that serve as a more respectable way of kickstarting peoples' lives again? I haven't looked at numbers but if it's similar in cost it would give people more purpose than just money for doing nothing (although microfinance theory being applied globally is in favor of just money, but likely serving other purposes). Adding to that small business grants and infrastructure investment and then jobs could have a comeback. I think an educated populous is a better off populous. I'm not sure how diminishing returns would work if you give everyone access to college, but I would be willing to find out.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:07
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Suicide Watch posted:If instead of UBI, that money went to lifelong education/training credits (community college, not private/for-profit schools) and universal health care, wouldn't that serve as a more respectable way of kickstarting peoples' lives again? I haven't looked at numbers but if it's similar in cost it would give people more purpose than just money for doing nothing (although microfinance theory being applied globally is in favor of just money, but likely serving other purposes). Adding to that small business grants and infrastructure investment and then jobs could have a comeback. Obviously this is well-intentioned, but I think it's clear that in the kinds of desperate rust towns we're talking about...the jobs just aren't there, education or not. Yeah, maybe you could train some extra machinists or nurses, which is great, but having more trained people won't just create jobs for them to perform. edit: Sexual Lorax posted:I am probably too insulated by my own situation and indoctrinated by the WORK UNTIL YOU'RE DEAD "ethic", but--very sincerely--UBI feels like far off science fiction stuff. After automation demolishes other sectors beyond manufacturing, I accept that it's going to make a lot more sense. Honestly, you're right that it's not quite as critical yet as it eventually will be. But that just makes me think we should try and solve this problem now, before it gets more dire. And it sounding like science-fiction is kind of good. Nobody shoots for the stars anymore. Maybe it's time we tried to tackle a big project in this country. And it's SA. We're all intentionally obnoxious. unbutthurtable fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 21:08
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Education/job training helps people that can take advantage of it. A lot of people can't. If anything that stuff should be in addition to a UBI.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:09
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facialimpediment posted:Guys, I think Donnie is dumb as gently caress. Hah, I missed this. Conway is just a barrel of lols, I can't believe she's even still around considering how much dumb poo poo she's spouted.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:09
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Sexual Lorax posted:call me a filthy capitalist or ignorant or whatever, but as a taxpayer, the entire concept of ubi is bullshit. whats my return on investment? Your return on investment is a group of people able to figure out what they want in life/in the next year instead of being depressed as poo poo about being in sisterfuck, ky and taking oxy/heroin to escape. Because those people, despite being half a continent away, may harbor talent that could improve your life or your spouse's life or who knows. This is about allowing people to fulfill their potential via the least harmful means possible. I realize it's a government handout but sure as poo poo seems better than letting people waste away in communities dying a slow, century long death. When was the last time America really confronted community death? Old west days where a town might spring up and then be abandoned when the gold mine dried up? That was more a way of life at the time. A boom and bust cycle that people who went out west could expect. This is different. This is happening on such a large scale and to communities that never had the thought of the community itself closing up shop that a national conversation has to happen first before anything else can actually be done about it. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 21:10
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So are we hosed with two terms of Trump/Pence after making slow gains in all the midterms so that in 2024 there can be a new New Deal passed? And an actual one with lots of government involvement (CCC, WPA, FSA, TVA) since millennials will all be very idealistic and take administrative roles there rather than in BillionaireCoInc?
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Feb 6, 2017 21:22
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The Indian reservations that just shovel money at people tend to become poo poo-holes of drug use and poverty. The Indian reservations who take that casino money and spend it on infrastructure like schools, roads, hospitals, etc. tend to be much better functioning because that money was invested into long-term assets that generate value.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:23
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http://www.refinery29.com/2017/02/139171/audi-commercial-sexist Snowflakes, safe spaces, etc.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:23
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:http://www.refinery29.com/2017/02/139171/audi-commercial-sexist  I'm being oppressed by not being told I shouldn't oppress people 
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Feb 6, 2017 21:25
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I, for one, am really enjoying the trolling of the right wing that companies have started doing over the past few years. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxDsx8HfXEk
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Feb 6, 2017 21:28
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I'm thought the commercial was cute and telling little girls they can be anything they want to be is extremely my poo poo. My niece currently wants to be an astronaut. My sister and her husband are doing everything they can to encourage her.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:29
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I'm thought the commercial was cute and telling little girls they can be anything they want to be is extremely my poo poo. My niece currently wants to be an astronaut. My sister and her husband are doing everything they can to encourage her. I know it shouldn't, but it surprises me still that literally anyone thinks in 2017 thinks its bad to tell women/minorities/what the gently caress ever that they can exceed and excel in life and we're all just humans edit: like with the antisemitism. I just don't GET IT. I don't understand how that line of thinking works. I know why, and that it does, but just trying to think in those terms is so hateful that it's like completely foreign to me. I just don't get it.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:31
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The other part of paying for education would be incentivising companies to hire your new rust-belt trainees and paying to move them cross country. Something like a direct rebate if you hire someone from a dying area and move them to your nice new industrial center.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:32
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:http://www.refinery29.com/2017/02/139171/audi-commercial-sexist That's a sweet looking Audi and I want one now
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Feb 6, 2017 21:33
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