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Teriyaki Koinku posted:What's the best direct route for big magically-induced explosive destruction? High Elf Fire Elementalist of Vehumet? DEEP Elf Fire Elementalist of Vehumet. Here is how you win. Train Spellcasting, Conjurations, and Fire. Eventually, train something else. edit: seriously. all fighting and dodging do for you pre-Orc is take away that 1 mp, point of fireball damage, or round of conjure/sticky flame you needed to kill something... Araganzar fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 16:10
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Here is how you really win. Singularity.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:32
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Araganzar posted:DEEP Elf Fire Elementalist of Vehumet. Just remember to use your flying to kite threats.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:13
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I had a fun DgFE run. The trick is to find an early staff of fire and wear a Ring of Fire for extra bonus burning damage.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:35
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Actually, screw it. I always go melee characters, maybe I'll give spellcasting a spin instead. Deep Elf whatever of Vehument or Sif is the usual powercombo for blowing stuff up. Early game can be rough depending on your starting spellbook, but once you reach midgame, most things die quick. A whatever of Chei is usually better, but it's a completely different playstyle and can teach you bad habits.
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Feb 6, 2017 18:24
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All of you forgot to mention stapling an amulet of harm to your neck for the free* extra damage. *Restrictions apply; results may vary.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:27
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DE (your element of choice) of Vehumet. Sif isn't nearly as good for pure casting, even though they're better than they used to be. As far as elements go, FE is the usual recommendation, but I find that IE is a lot stronger. Your startbook gives you Throw Icicle to handle rC enemies, Ozoarmor helps make you less squishy, Freeze is the L1 spell that stays relevant longest, and Ice Beasts are really good even if you don't do the hybrid thing. EE is also strong, but getting used to how to LRD/petrify properly can be a bit weird.World Famous W posted:This, but it Tengu Conjurer instead. Just focus on spellcasting and conjurations till you find a good spell book/Vehumet offers a spell you like then also start training that element v should have one of the big spells cast able before lair rune branch ends.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:00
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I like to go Draconian Conjurer of Vehumet and then branch into elemental magic depending on the color. Naga conjurer is also very good, especially in the late game if you want to go for 15. I think DE and Tengu are just too fragile.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:10
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While I agree that DEs make a more powerful caster, Tengus are better survivors. The innate move speed bonus while flying allows them to kite far more efficiently then a DE, one of the most important skills for a blaster caster. Also having +3 in conjuration ain't nothing to sneeze at. Plus they ain't an elf and that is the biggest bonus of all.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:22
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Floodkiller posted:All of you forgot to mention stapling an amulet of harm to your neck for the free* extra damage. Does anyone actually use amulets of harm?
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Feb 6, 2017 20:28
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I do till I find a +4-6 reflection or Faith depending on god.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:30
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What are the apts for a caster? I never get past lair. Do I just train spell schools and spell casting from the start?
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Feb 6, 2017 20:36
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Internet Kraken posted:Does anyone actually use amulets of harm? I did! Until I noticed I was dying a lot more frequently for some reason with it on...
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Feb 6, 2017 20:40
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Goodpancakes posted:What are the apts for a caster? I never get past lair. Do I just train spell schools and spell casting from the start? I feel skill training for casters is actually a lot more transparent a straightforward than for a melee dude. When you want to use a new spell train that spell school until it's below 10% spell failure. If you don't have a new spell you're working towards train your damage school. It's fine to turn off everything but the spell schools you want, though you might want to bump fighting or dodging occasionally. When you want to memorize a spell but don't have the spell levels switch to spellcasting until you do. My go-to spellcaster sticks to conjurations and then dips into fire or ice depending on spell selection, then goes through low level utilities in Charm/Air once I can cast those with very little skill investment. Eventually I'll branch into summoning or necromancy for friends to prep for the harder vaults. If I have access to level 9 spells I might shoot for those, and if I don't I'll compensate with more allies or utility while I wait for it.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:53
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World Famous W posted:While I agree that DEs make a more powerful caster, Tengus are better survivors. The innate move speed bonus while flying allows them to kite far more efficiently then a DE, one of the most important skills for a blaster caster. Also having +3 in conjuration ain't nothing to sneeze at. The person you've advising is a new player who is trying out casting. Playing "hybridy" caster classes will shortchange spellcasting, MP, and/or spell success to the point you're denying yourself spell choice as well as early access to high level conjurations should they become available. Kiting is a dangerous habit, not an important skill. There are almost no races who can kite efficiently and it's not very good late. The important skill for a caster is recognizing when you are in trouble and getting out. Same way as playing Chei will teach you habits that are worthless with any other deity, Tengu swiftness will teach you bad habits that will get you killed later when enemies have multiple soft counters to the strategy. Deep Elves have +3 in Spellcasting, an important skill for a Vehumet caster and especially so for a new player who can't be as parsimonious with spell levels as a vetran. Deep Elves start with 3 more INT than Tengu and get +1 per 4 levels as opposed to a random stat every 4 levels. Tengu have difficulty developing ice and earth which are the best sources of irresistable damage. Their average apt on elemental spell skills is +0 compared to DE +0.8. When breaking into non-elemental spell schools Te apts are mostly negative and average -1 while the average DE apt is +2. Deep Elf get more MR and can wear boots and helmets. The biological cost of flight is as dear in crawl as it is in our own world, and before XL14 tengu have to spend a valuable turn evoking it before they can run. Neither caster fragility nor lack of swiftness are an issue if you use FE as the preferred start. Conjure Flame and Sticky Flame are more than sufficient to handle or escape most threats. And the starter book has the damage to clear Orc and Lair. When it comes to newbies, I like it. TeCj and TeAE are best suited to adventurers who want to be able to brag to their friends in Adventurer Hell about how much damage they were doing on Lair 6 when they died.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:38
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for new caster players, draconian is probably the best choice. very survivable and you don't have to make choices WRT encumbrance vs. spell success
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Feb 6, 2017 21:47
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Honestly I never felt like my odds of survival were gimped due to being a deep elf past Lair because somewhere around Lair you start spamming fireballs at edge of LOS with no hunger and little to no MP problems (if you're worshiping Vehumet) which also means you can use that incoming XP to immediately branch out into whatever spell schools you want because you're a deep elf. If I need to gently caress off because something went south I end up using a lot of different things and very rarely is swiftness my best option (even if I have it learned already). e: Also I find FE start noteworthy for having a LOT of spells that are guaranteed to hit and MP efficient (sticky flame, cloud, fireball), and having guaranteed damage sources makes it a lot easier to finish off enemies and get that MP-on-kill. apple fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 21:49
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someone awful. posted:It still doesn't give as much info as Brogue, the platonic ideal of not needing spoilers in a roguelike They should add maximum damage numbers for player spells and weapon attacks, and also add the spell "Singularity".
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Feb 6, 2017 22:03
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Ferrinus posted:They should add maximum damage numbers for player spells and weapon attacks, and also add the spell "Singularity". That didn't happen, but a cool new thing was added instead today!
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Feb 6, 2017 22:08
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SKULL.GIF posted:That didn't happen, but a cool new thing was added instead today! Go on...
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Feb 6, 2017 22:35
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SKULL.GIF posted:That didn't happen, but a cool new thing was added instead today! The removal of the spell Repel Missiles, or the new ego to replace it that only shows up on scarves? (Scarves are always-ego but 0-AC cloaks. They can also spawn Spirit Shield, replacing the amulet of same.) Also I guess the Book of Air gets Lightning Spire now, having stolen it from the Book of Sky. Prism fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 22:38
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Why the hell do they have to get rid of spirit shield on amulets just because they are adding these stupid scarves.
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Feb 6, 2017 22:41
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Internet Kraken posted:Why the hell do they have to get rid of spirit shield on amulets just because they are adding these stupid scarves. I made a mistake. It replaces spirit shield on hats, not amulets.
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Feb 6, 2017 22:42
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Let Octopodes (and cats) Wear Scarves (i haven't actually checked that they can't, but I'm assuming.)
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Feb 6, 2017 22:44
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Demonspawn casters are good, much like all demonspawn. A decent number of mutations are great boons to a caster, and most of the remaining ones are universally useful for survival.Internet Kraken posted:Does anyone actually use amulets of harm? They're actually really good for a blaster who isn't doing shoals, the yaktaur vaults, or throwing things like ball lightning around. When your gameplan involves spitting damage at distant enemies using a limited resource an extra +30% damage is amazing. Harm-boosted fireballs tear through everything.
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Feb 7, 2017 00:51
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Darox posted:Demonspawn casters are good, much like all demonspawn. A decent number of mutations are great boons to a caster, and most of the remaining ones are universally useful for survival. I don't know about that, I keep getting spirit shield on my DsNe attempts
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Feb 7, 2017 01:12
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Prism posted:The removal of the spell Repel Missiles, or the new ego to replace it that only shows up on scarves? (Scarves are always-ego but 0-AC cloaks. They can also spawn Spirit Shield, replacing the amulet of same.)
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Feb 7, 2017 01:18
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At this point, does the charms school need to exist anymore?
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Feb 7, 2017 01:27
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I would almost always take MR+ over RMSL.
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Feb 7, 2017 01:26
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Open question: what's your favorite or most fun race/class/deity combo to play and why? Not looking for objective statements, just why you personally enjoy your favorite build.
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Feb 7, 2017 01:28
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TeCj of Vehumet or old OgBe who switches to TSO for extended. Edit: forgot why. I done said enough on TeCj so I will skip that one. Before recent trunk Ogre changes I loved the idea of a giant blood bag who survives by being the biggest and the loudest while swinging a big stick. Since the apt changes I just can't seem to make one stick, even when trying to take advantage of their new caster hybridness. Give Ogres good mace apts again already! World Famous W fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 01:31
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Open question: what's your favorite or most fun race/class/deity combo to play and why? Not looking for objective statements, just why you personally enjoy your favorite build. Demonspawn artificer. Skill in a completely uncommitted manner (i.e., train only fighting) until floorgod, an early altar, or your mutations give you direction Note: About half the time you will reach the point where your unfocused skilling kills you before one of those things directs you in how to skill.
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Feb 7, 2017 01:32
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Open question: what's your favorite or most fun race/class/deity combo to play and why? Not looking for objective statements, just why you personally enjoy your favorite build. grab big shield and big weapon and go fast
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Feb 7, 2017 02:01
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Unimpressed posted:I don't know about that, I keep getting spirit shield on my DsNe attempts Spirit shield by itself is not great but levels two and three are absolutely amazing for casters so it's a win overall.
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Feb 7, 2017 02:03
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Haifisch posted:So basically always use an rmsl scarf unless a really goddamn good cloak spawns or you're so loving tough that MR matters more. I'm not sure how much of an Interesting Choice that is, but hey, it's easier for berserkers to get rmsl now! And casters will have 2 more spell levels to play with! They want to add more scarf-specific egos, so I'm reserving comment until I see those. (Also I don't know if scarfs can be randart, or if randart cloaks can have rmsl even if they are not a scarf.)
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Feb 7, 2017 02:04
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Randart armour can't spawn with armour brands. I don't know if scarves are an exception (it'd be nice if they were considering their niche) but there's no way a cloak would spawn with rmsl.
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Feb 7, 2017 02:06
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Prism posted:The removal of the spell Repel Missiles, or the new ego to replace it that only shows up on scarves? (Scarves are always-ego but 0-AC cloaks. They can also spawn Spirit Shield, replacing the amulet of same.) Ugh.gently caress this dumb release.
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Feb 7, 2017 02:34
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Darox posted:Spirit shield by itself is not great but levels two and three are absolutely amazing for casters so it's a win overall. Oh wow, just read about the mutation, you're right, I did not know this, I assumed it just applied the spirit shield effect more strongly (i.e. I didn't really think about it, because what I just wrote makes no sense).
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Feb 7, 2017 02:53
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Speleothing posted:Ugh.gently caress this dumb release. Honestly its kind of annoying BUT they are right that repel missiles is a no-brainer spell that everyone capable of casting the most basic of spells used. They kept in deflect missiles, which was mostly ignored but now there will be a bigger drive to use it.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:04
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Sure, it's a no brainer, but what is the alternative? They didn't change anything about the reason you needed to use rmsl. At the end of the day, like the vast majority of the changes, this makes the game even harder. This thread and Tavern are mostly populated by people whose biggest decision is wether or not to do extended, but I've been playing crawl for 18 months now and I've only got 5 or so wins. Guess I better git gud or keep playing MiBes for my only tourney win every six months.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:13
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