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DId they put back high elfs yet
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Feb 7, 2017 03:15
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I see that they did not so i will bid you all a good day.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:21
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Thought I was going nuts when I had dozens of spellbooks stacked up and none of them had Repel Missiles.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:26
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Open question: what's your favorite or most fun race/class/deity combo to play and why? Not looking for objective statements, just why you personally enjoy your favorite build. Formicid Fighter of Cheibriados, followed by Demonspawn Berserker and Draconian Conjurer of Vehumet with a pinch of Troll Chaos Knight and Spriggan Assassin for less serious play. FoFi^Chei: Double Down good. Can't run, can't teleport, can't escape. There is only Kill. That, and sleep till the enemy goes away. Going fighter means I don't have to balance my MP consumption between spells and Step from Time. Demonspawn Berserker: Do I really need to explain? Has something to do with one of my first wins. Draconian Conjurer: Explosions and more explosions, without any of the extreme fragility I'm unfamiliar with after formicids and ogres galore. Racial color is really just there to help me decide which offers of Vehumet to ignore. Troll Chaos Knight: Frustrated? Find yourself saying, "I know this is stupid but..." and ruining a valuable character? TrCK is a way to unwind and stop eating the purple because I get my full share of crazy and I don't feel too guilty if it goes badly. Oddly enough, everytime I successfully talk someone into a TrCK, their luck vastly exceed my own. Spriggan Assassin (don't do this too often online): Player ghosts got you down? See how far you can dive a level 1 spriggan without killing a single enemy. I get to feel like a speedrunner without actually developing the skills or habits to win a game in under two hours.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:30
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My favorite two combos are High Elf and Hill Orc Skalds. Skalds are pretty much the best though.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:31
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HoMo^Makhleb: fun fighter man who gets early access to powerful ranged attacks and summons to vary things up. Not as easy as a BE but a little more fun. TrFi^Pak: ( back when pakellas existed) similar reasons. DeEE^Veh, DeFE^Veh, I like blowing stuff up. Fire Storm is more fun than Shatter but LRD is more fun than Fireball. DrWz, DsWz: sometimes it's fun to roll the dice and see what you get!
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Feb 7, 2017 03:38
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Unimpressed posted:Sure, it's a no brainer, but what is the alternative? They didn't change anything about the reason you needed to use rmsl. At the end of the day, like the vast majority of the changes, this makes the game even harder. This thread and Tavern are mostly populated by people whose biggest decision is wether or not to do extended, but I've been playing crawl for 18 months now and I've only got 5 or so wins. Guess I better git gud or keep playing MiBes for my only tourney win every six months. this has been one of my bigger complaints with crawldev for a long time, incidentally. the UI changes and de-obfuscated info help tons but i do feel like the game itself has gotten consistently more difficult and not always in a fun way. the amount of exp you have available before lair branches feels pretty tight, like you have to know exactly what you want to do from the moment you hit ground or you won't be strong enough to survive the incoming spike in challenge, plus more difficult (and interesting, for some value of the word) monster types like smite bees and the bullshit that is entropy weavers Teriyaki Koinku posted:Open question: what's your favorite or most fun race/class/deity combo to play and why? Not looking for objective statements, just why you personally enjoy your favorite build. HOMo^Qaz or any god that leans heavily on invo really, doubly if i find an amulet of faith so I can just go ham on the god abilities. Gods in Crawl are really varied and fun and I enjoy being able to use the heck out of their powers and feel like a cool dude!!!
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Feb 7, 2017 03:42
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Troll Necromancer of Kiku is a fun combo. It's really rare to find a combo that is good at melee and magic without having an atrocious early game but TrNe nails it. Between troll claws, regeneration & health and necromancy skeletons & vampiric draining your early game is super easy. After that Kiku upgrades you to corpse rot, draining bolts, death channel and eventually infestation to tackle anything and everything. It's fun stomping around with a huge pack of undead and firing draining bolts over them while still being a powerful force in melee. As a bonus troll strength is great so you can wear pretty heavy armour and still easily cast death channel.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:52
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I think I had the most fun 15 runing my first VSFi. Was pretty scared of some of the pan lords, but they never cast any spells. Because of course I was anti-magic biting the gently caress out of them. Also the only non-casting class I've cleared a zig with (v0.17)
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Feb 7, 2017 04:03
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Unimpressed posted:Sure, it's a no brainer, but what is the alternative? They didn't change anything about the reason you needed to use rmsl. At the end of the day, like the vast majority of the changes, this makes the game even harder. This thread and Tavern are mostly populated by people whose biggest decision is wether or not to do extended, but I've been playing crawl for 18 months now and I've only got 5 or so wins. Guess I better git gud or keep playing MiBes for my only tourney win every six months.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:19
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someone awful. posted:this has been one of my bigger complaints with crawldev for a long time, incidentally. the UI changes and de-obfuscated info help tons but i do feel like the game itself has gotten consistently more difficult and not always in a fun way. the amount of exp you have available before lair branches feels pretty tight, like you have to know exactly what you want to do from the moment you hit ground or you won't be strong enough to survive the incoming spike in challenge, plus more difficult (and interesting, for some value of the word) monster types like smite bees and the bullshit that is entropy weavers Of course, people still pick other gods sometimes, because they give you different fun things to play around with. And that gets to my real problem - the devs like solving 'no brainers' by removing options instead of adding something cool that you might do instead(even if it's not strictly 100% optimal). I get that it's more work to think of something new and add it than it is to just nerf or remove things, but it's detrimental to the game in the long run. The end result is a blander game with, ironically, fewer interesting decisions. This has been going on for a long time, too: -Polymorphing TRJ wasn't strictly the best strategy for every character, but it was fun and a different option from 'beat it down then get the gently caress away from the jelly horde". But the devs really, really cared about people skipping part of the Intended Design, so it had to be nerfed. -It's what happened to V5 - god forbid you use a mostly-useless translocation to solve the ambush in a sneakier way. You will fight them all on or right next to the stairs, or else you will random tele into god-knows-what, and you will like it. -Evocables got gradually nerfed into almost-uselessness, instead of creating an actual trade-off for using them. -As far as amulets go, I'm struggling to think of the last time I bothered using anything but reflection or hp/mana regen. I used a much wider variety of them before clarity/rmut/etc got taken away. Like, I can accept more difficult enemies like juggernauts and bee priests, because that adds new flavor and tactical considerations to the game, but the devs taking options away and pretending it creates Interesting Choices annoys me. IronicDongz posted:not only do you not ever need to use rmsl, it's also pretty unimportant. it was just "the investment is so low you always ought to despite it being a weak buff", which is quite dull Haifisch fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 04:23
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Actually once it got over the initial hump the amulet reform turned out really good. I actually have an interest in getting an amulet in the early game instead of most of them being niche resists that won't seriously matter for another 10-15 levels. Three good amulets and a bunch of situational ones is much better than a couple situationally good amulets and some niche resists. All of the new amulets are a better find on d5~ than clarity or rMut. The only thing about old amulets I miss is rMut but that's because malmutate is bad and needs reforms, not because the amulet was good. The other points are fair though.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:35
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IronicDongz posted:not only do you not ever need to use rmsl, it's also pretty unimportant. it was just "the investment is so low you always ought to despite it being a weak buff", which is quite dull No repel missiles makes a pretty big difference versus ranged enemy packs like yaktaurs, centaurs, and naga sharpshooters. If you already have good defenses then it won't make a huge difference but squishier characters will really notice its absence.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:35
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I can always, always tell the difference in damage taken when I've got rMsl and when I don't. And I would take Clarity over harm every time. No question. Speleothing fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 04:38
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Sounds like someone doesn't enjoy fun and hubris. Harm is actually good for blasters though, clarity is just a better but more niche version of MR for most of the game.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:47
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Normally I'm just one to grumble and ignore dumb changes, but I just had a relevant experience: Played DgTm who found repel missiles at dlvl2, and immediately thought to myself "I'm never going to be able to cast this, xp is too tight as a Dg". One could argue that Dg is a challenge race, but talking about optional player-chosen challenges is the very antithesis of "Optimal" play; if we are designing around optimal choices only, then anything that's not a power combo must be cut from the game, or inversely, all good races (Mi, etc) are to be cut. Maybe this was a contributing reason to why HE got cut? Who knows, I liked the race, and it's not as if I'll ever get to play it again with a current build. Going back to Repel Missles, yes, it's a good spell, duh, that's why I use it when available. It's a low level utility spell. Low level non-utlility spells, ie nukes, are perfectly fine being obsoleted and undesirable as a later-game find, but the whole concept of utility spells is that they are there to be, um, utile. Not everyone CAN or wants to get it online such as melee bruisers, ppl with xp issues, or both. Vaguely related: remember when charms where so gloriously OP that they had to be split into two schools? And now we have chat about how charms is borderline worthless, as literally everything of value is being stripped from it...
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Feb 7, 2017 04:48
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Haifisch posted:Of course, people still pick other gods sometimes, because they give you different fun things to play around with. And that gets to my real problem - the devs like solving 'no brainers' by removing options instead of adding something cool that you might do instead(even if it's not strictly 100% optimal). I get that it's more work to think of something new and add it than it is to just nerf or remove things, but it's detrimental to the game in the long run. The end result is a blander game with, ironically, fewer interesting decisions. This is actually part of why I decided to get rid of Repel Missiles as a spell: there was no possible way to set it up such that it was an option without dramatically changing how the spell works. I could have nerfed it even further, or spent weeks setting up a huge hacky Charms Reform that would have caused much more backlash. I don't think that would have satisfied many people. One thing I considered was to make a "charm slot" and only let players have one self-buffing charm active at any given time, but given how many people just get RMsl going and nothing else ever, I think that would have just papered over the problem without actually addressing it. Now the scarf of repulsion is actually an option. To use it you need to pass on what might be a scarf of resistance or a cloak of magic resistance, or an artefact. I may need to generate it more often, or make it stronger/weaker, or something. I don't know. I'll be monitoring the situation over the next few weeks. But now that players who find it can conceivably decide to not use it, we're much more free to play around with it and see what we can do with the effect. I've been playing this game for a long rear end time. With every single release Crawl has added more and more decisions and options. Sometimes the developers have intentionally taken a step back on these options, but on the whole we're continually moving forward and increasing the breadth of the game.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:51
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someone awful. posted:this has been one of my bigger complaints with crawldev for a long time, incidentally. the UI changes and de-obfuscated info help tons but i do feel like the game itself has gotten consistently more difficult and not always in a fun way. the amount of exp you have available before lair branches feels pretty tight, like you have to know exactly what you want to do from the moment you hit ground or you won't be strong enough to survive the incoming spike in challenge, plus more difficult (and interesting, for some value of the word) monster types like smite bees and the bullshit that is entropy weavers
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Feb 7, 2017 04:53
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Haifisch posted:-Evocables got gradually nerfed into almost-uselessness, instead of creating an actual trade-off for using them. Haifisch posted:-As far as amulets go, I'm struggling to think of the last time I bothered using anything but reflection or hp/mana regen. I used a much wider variety of them before clarity/rmut/etc got taken away. Haifisch posted:On melee dudes, sure, but it was a huge defensive buff to squishy casters. Now they have to hope they find an rmsl scarf or beeline to dmsl. Panic! at Nabisco posted:I kind of agree with this. I've been playing crawl on and off since like 0.6 and there's always a constant feeling of having done something wrong, which is not a problem I have with a lot of other roguelikes. The game is going the way of ROMhacks, where the people involved in and invested in development are so familiar with and skilled at the game that the difficulty is scaling up and up and up to create a more engaging experience to people with their experiences and knowledge. The game needs UX. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 05:06
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I don't care about scarves, but I'm glad repel missiles is gone. Balance issues aside, it wasn't an interesting spell and its removal actually might make charms more relevant since you have to invest in the school to get deflect missiles instead. I do think the charms school is badly in need of some new, interesting high level additions to make investment worthwhile. A lot of people like buffs simply as a gameplay concept, and a buff dedicated spell school seems like a very natural thing for the game to have. But at the current rate, the school might as well be removed if it doesn't get something to make it more relevant. I love brainstorming spells and have a few ideas, but I don't think they're necessarily good ones: Charms/Conjurations 7 -- Rune of Reaving. Melee version of spellforged servitor. When you cast it, you get -cast for 5-6 and rune of reaving for 3-4 turns. The rune makes each of your melee attacks have a chance to cast a conjuration you know on the monster you hit. You lose two to three MP per turn whether or not you attack. Blast shapes like fireball and freezing cloud explode outward from you in a cone. Charms/Hexes 7 -- Word of Stillness. Makes every monster in line of sight forget about you and makes you undetectable for several turns as long as you don't cast or attack. Consumes all your remaining MP. Charms 7 -- Grand Glamor -- Wreathes you in an aura of awe that mesmerizes all enemies, causing them to more often prefer moving towards you rather than using ranged attacks or casting spells. Enemies that attack you in melee have to perform an HD check to succeed (minimum 50% chance of success for the weakest enemies). Also mesmerizes you towards the nearest enemy. Any other ideas for new charms?
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Feb 7, 2017 05:56
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I agree that Crawl has shifted away from arbitrary difficulty in the form of "gotcha!" traps that require prior knowledge to reasonably avoid. A lot of roguelikes have a bad habit of flooding the game with those. They can be funny but most of the time they just gently caress over new players that want to get into the game. Anyways, sheep. 
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Feb 7, 2017 06:00
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Also it is BULL. SH*T. that spectral weapons swords dont riposte. AXES GET TO CLEAVE
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Feb 7, 2017 06:05
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I do agree that Crawl has simplified a lot of bullshit roguelike "it's there because it was in nethack" staples out and I appreciate that a lot. Traps & Doors was not a skill that made your character better in any way, for example, it just mitigated your chance of getting hosed over by something otherwise out of your control. It just also often feels that some changes are made with highly experienced crawl players in mind. I'm in no way implying that the severity of this is anything like kaizo mario, which is something made explicitly as a way to increase difficulty to an absurd degree for the sake of challenge. I was thinking more along the lines of something like FFVI:Brave New World, which sets out to give the game meaningful stat and build choices and, as a result of the community around it and the developers being extremely familiar with the source material and how to most optimally play it, ends up making the game harder because that is more interesting to its extant audience. The problem there being that the people most involved with development and feedback aren't a microcosm of players at large and there is a group of players somewhat alienated by choices that make the game more difficult. See also: PleasingFungus's very good point about how watching new players play crawl is very, very different from watching veterans play it. Also saying "it's easier than a lot of roguelikes" is a non-point because a lot of roguelikes either approach their high difficulty elegantly or are themselves poorly designed by modern standards. Crawl is vastly better than most roguelikes of its comlexity level re: avoiding obfuscation, for example. Panic! at Nabisco fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 06:11
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 Potion of experience on D1  +5 Amulet of Reflection on D1  +4 Scimitar of Flaming on D8  +16 Gold Dragon Scales of Ulfeo (*Slow, rElec, rPois, rF+, rC+, SInv, Stlth+) on D8 All found on the ground or off enemies as a Demonspawn Berserker of Trog, no God gifts yet. I think this game wants me to win this time, you guys!  e: Plus getting lucky with Demonspawn mutations + QuaffId'ed mutation potion:  e2: Found a buckler of reflection in lair/minotaur's maze, so I'm on a roll now! Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 06:20
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Internet Kraken posted:Anyways, sheep. I love it.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:30
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Something I have not thought about a lot, so it's only at the stage of fetal bullshit. I'm throwing it out now so it has a chance to germinate after a good nights rest. 3:1 Flaming Turd:Fertiliser. One of the ways new players get things wrong, and something I don't see too much in other roguelikes, is the importance of Backing Away. Backing Away is somewhat different in Crawl, thanks to sound, stealth, and the line of sight system. Common roguelike themes are Retreat, Picking Your Fights, Fighting in a Corridor, and Tactical Positioning (see, Spelunky). A lot of difficulty is because people don't Back Away, either because the game doesn't properly teach them to, incentivize them, or it doesn't really matter in other roguelikes. Example 1: Shiren the Wanderer a "newbie's first RL" with the rescue system and all. This game teaches you to avoid some fights outright, or lure them to a more advantageous position (a corridor). But with it's harsh food clock (and the winds blowing you off the level) and forward-only progression, there is no real incentive to retreat from a fight and then re-engage it later. You're using up your awesome scroll and clearing the room, or getting the gently caress outta that level. It doesn't really make sense to do half a fight, break it off, and resume it later. Example 2: So half-baked I decided to cut it, rather than waste your time, or mine, squeezing blood out of a stone.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:49
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Please, buff mummies or put the nail in their coffin. The state they're in is killing me. Make them better or release me from caring about this game. I'm fraying at the edges.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:55
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Chakan posted:Please, buff mummies or put the nail in their coffin. The state they're in is killing me. Make them better or release me from caring about this game. I'm sorry about your mental state, but we did dramatically buff Mummy spellcasting back when the yellow wands were nuked. What bothers you right now about Mummies?
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Feb 7, 2017 07:00
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Some kind of flayed ghost damage spell for charms?
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Feb 7, 2017 07:35
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Aaaaaand I die of Tab-hubris after collecting the Spider rune.  gently caress me sideways. And yet I can't help but love the pain and do it all over again. 
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Feb 7, 2017 07:47
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0.19 continues to be the best version of crawl.
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Feb 7, 2017 07:48
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Serephina posted:Normally I'm just one to grumble and ignore dumb changes, but I just had a relevant experience:
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Feb 7, 2017 07:49
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Carcer posted:0.19 continues to be the best version of crawl. Are wands auto-identified now? That seems different. Plus not having to pray over corpses for piety. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 07:52
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Are wands auto-identified now? That seems different. Plus not having to pray over corpses.
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Feb 7, 2017 07:54
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I don't think I've really played through Crawl since 0.17. I remember when I first played Crawl you still had to do 'victory dancing' for skill exp allocation. 
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Feb 7, 2017 07:57
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I'm actually curious, what was the rationale behind removing evocable teleport and wands of tele? It seems like that's restricting a lot of characters to scrolls for disengaging, which limits their potential quite a bit. Was there a reason the devs wanted lategame teleporting to be available just to casters with good enough tloc to cast it? Evocations has always been a sort of alternative to casting for heavily armored, low-int, or both chars like minotaurs.
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Feb 7, 2017 08:02
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IronicDongz posted:not only do you not ever need to use rmsl, it's also pretty unimportant. it was just "the investment is so low you always ought to despite it being a weak buff", which is quite dull A couple things here, firstly you're the guy who holds the speed record, so what you consider pretty unimportant and just a crutch is very different for someone not as good at the game as you. Secondly, even your argument that it's a weak buff ignores that it's simply been removed, so it may have made the game only a little bit harder, but it still made the game harder. My point is exactly that players like you have more influence on the game and are making it harder for players like me to enjoy the game. I am bad at crawl, happy to admit it, i got better than when I started, but I now feel I'm stuck at my level. I can count on winning a MiBe or MiFi within the time span of a tourney, but it took me 100s of attempts to win a GrEE and a DrFE and I feel a GrEE has just become harder than when I won it. Your post further down saying Crawl is easier than other RL is again besides the point that Crawl is bloody hard already and making it harder isn't making it better. Now don't get me wrong, I love to read your point of view on the game in general, you and the other people who are really good at this game, but you are not the majority and it seems that the devs are, even if they profess not to, taking your point of view as a baseline for the game, and in thus doing, ruining it for the rest of us. I enjoy sacrificing casters one after another, but sometimes it gets so frustrating I have to put the game away for a while, and the harder it gets the more likely I am eventually to give up. Now you could say I should get better, and that's a legitimate point of view, but it's hard to stay motivated to get better when the target keeps getting moved further away by the devs making the game incrementally harder.
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Feb 7, 2017 08:13
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SKULL.GIF posted:I'm sorry about your mental state, but we did dramatically buff Mummy spellcasting back when the yellow wands were nuked. What bothers you right now about Mummies? A different, but related topic is that without the haste spell and yellow wands, necromutation is now indisputably awful. It has always been something that a certain segment of the player base has held very strong views against, but whereas in the past there could be legitimate arguments for learning and casting the spell, it's hard to imagine that it would ever be worth it for anyone at this point. Necromutation now seems to be exclusively a trap option that gives experienced players something to feel smug about. Either liches should just be allowed to drink potions (boring, removes the main interesting drawback of the spell), the spell level should be knocked down to 6 dual school or 7 single school, or it should be changed in some other way.
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Feb 7, 2017 08:51
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IronicDongz you are an obviously better player than the majority of us and while I do enjoy seeing your point of view as a counter balance to people like me whining that everything is terrible your statements tend to read like "get gud" put downs at times.
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Feb 7, 2017 09:30
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I don't really mean it like that. I just don't think it's fair to say "The game is going the way of ROMhacks"(especially since I used to be way into that scene and it is totally different in almost every way), and I don't think rmsl is a fun spell, or one that player's chances of winning revolve around. Besides, now you can have the rmsl effect on berserkers and the really dumb melee characters that couldn't/had a hard time of getting it before. Goodpancakes posted:Some kind of flayed ghost damage spell for charms?
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Feb 7, 2017 11:32
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