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jabby posted:First Tory to speak after Sajid Javid complains that a Labour council built 6000 homes 'unnecessarily' on green belt land, and why wasn't the government able to stop them? e: fields are in fact not useless and are good.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:16
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jBrereton posted:Probably because of that local government duty not to lose public money in the courts. Not as good as having a loving home though
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Feb 7, 2017 14:27
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mehall posted:Not as good as having a loving home though
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Feb 7, 2017 14:36
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jBrereton posted:e: fields are in fact not useless and are good. Fields are great when they're growing crops or full of cows/sheep/etc. Most green belt land isn't like that.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:37
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the countryside is great and should be treasured where possible, fields are great for the ecosystem, wild life and for walking in. I like walking through fields
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Feb 7, 2017 14:39
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The reason there's not enough houses is that there's actually enough houses but all the rich fuckers from the world just buy them up and leave them unoccupied.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:39
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Pochoclo posted:The reason there's not enough houses is that there's actually enough houses but all the rich fuckers from the world just buy them up and leave them unoccupied.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:47
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I think forests get off very lightly too - burn 'em all down and build some houses!
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Feb 7, 2017 14:48
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We could always build on all that lovely scrub land which used to be factories of course. The problem being that even though you can get from the midlands to central London in 1:30 by train, no one can afford to commute from beyond the Home Counties because of the price of the loving tickets.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:49
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Maybe the problem is that London has seen too much investment relative to everywhere else, and the idea that everyone in England's main aim should be to move there is foolhardy.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:50
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jabby posted:Fields are great when they're growing crops or full of cows/sheep/etc. Most green belt land isn't like that.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:52
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Pochoclo posted:The reason there's not enough houses is that there's actually enough houses but all the rich fuckers from the world just buy them up and leave them unoccupied. That's a marginal effect at best, there's only 57000 homes unoccupied in London, and at least some of those will be for reconstruction, from inheritance and other similar reasons. It's because not enough houses are being built. There's any number of articles stretching back decades showing >100k house building deficit per year.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:55
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The crux of the problem is that London has all the jobs, and museums, and art galleries, and nice shopping areas, and architecture, and and and. You can forgive people for looking at thier poo poo dead town in the arse end of Lancashire and thinking "no, I don't think spending my dole money in this Oxfam while being surrounded by racists is for me, I'll kip on someone's floor in London if It gets me out of here"
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Feb 7, 2017 14:55
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jBrereton posted:Maybe the problem is that London has seen too much investment relative to everywhere else, and the idea that everyone in England's main aim should be to move there is foolhardy. if i leave newcastle its going to be for another country
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Feb 7, 2017 14:56
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I went to the national railway museum recently - that's in York.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:56
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jBrereton posted:Yes that's it mate, you nailed it. It's not that wages have done gently caress all for ten years while houses are barely getting built. I'm sorry but I have a pretty high salary in London and I'd still have to save for like two years to buy a flat lease in Aberdeen, one of the cheapest cities to buy. It's not that the wages are low - it's that houses are incredibly supermega high priced because investors and speculators have driven up the prices. It's the same almost everywhere, I don't see what's controversial about it.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:58
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jBrereton posted:Yeah gently caress safe places for kids to bike around and for adults to enjoy not just hearing car noise all the time. I'm not disputing those great middle-class pastimes, just that they're maybe not as important as people having houses to live in. Let's not pretend that Tory fetishisation of the green belt is based on environmental concerns and not on the fact that they want a nice view and don't give a poo poo about poor people or the housing market. There simply isn't enough brownfield land to build on, and talking about dramatically increasing the housing density of the poor while bitching that a Labour council dared to build a few thousand homes in some empty fields is not a reasonable policy because you don't want to hear car noises on your country estate.
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Feb 7, 2017 14:58
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I obviously agree that we need to build more houses but would this actually solve the problem of the cost of buying? I mean, is it even possible for any government to build so many new homes in London and the south east that prices start to fall significantly just because there are more houses on the market?
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Feb 7, 2017 15:00
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Pissflaps posted:I went to the national railway museum recently - that's in York. So did I, cost me £6.80 return on the train. Going the same distance down south would have cost me £58 return.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:02
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jabby posted:Sajid Javid also promising to protect green belt land but look 'more seriously at density' so that available land is used 'more efficiently'.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:02
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Paxman posted:I obviously agree that we need to build more houses but would this actually solve the problem of the cost of buying? I mean, is it even possible for any government to build so many new homes in London and the south east that prices start to fall significantly just because there are more houses on the market? jabby posted:I'm not disputing those great middle-class pastimes, just that they're maybe not as important as people having houses to live in.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:04
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E: Nevermind.
Alertrelic fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 15:05
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Pochoclo posted:I'm sorry but I have a pretty high salary in London and I'd still have to save for like two years to buy a flat lease in Aberdeen, one of the cheapest cities to buy. It's not that the wages are low - it's that houses are incredibly supermega high priced because investors and speculators have driven up the prices. It's the same almost everywhere, I don't see what's controversial about it. Lol what? Aberdeen average sale prices in the last year have been above Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Newcastle, and Glasgow. Low wages are a problem for anyone wanting to ever have their own home anywhere and not just where the prices have gone super crazy but let's not pretend it's the same everywhere.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:05
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Pissflaps posted:I went to the national railway museum recently - that's in York. York is one of the places outside London that is allowed to have nice things. For full disclosure, in Swansea we have the National Waterfront Museum, a mummy in the Museum of Swansea, and an indoor jungle.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:05
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I'm not if sure a nice middle class couple having to drive little Joshua and Henry for an extra 10 mins before they hit miles and miles of countryside is a priority for the homeless tbh.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:07
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Private Speech posted:It's because not enough houses are being built. There's any number of articles stretching back decades showing >100k house building deficit per year. If you look at charts of housebuilding the main reason the numbers have plunged is that councils have almost completely stopped building houses (because they could no longer borrow the money to do so), and the private sector and housing associations have not taken up the slack. Unsurprisingly, the mid-1980s is when the current wave of house-price booms really took off.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:07
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jBrereton posted:You're right, better not bother if it might not work out. *sighs 2015-and-onwards New Labourishly* That's obviously not remotely what I said (though we could have another debate about whether New Labour was really that bad one day if you like)
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Feb 7, 2017 15:11
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Baron Corbyn posted:York is one of the places outside London that is allowed to have nice things. I have tourist tips for York. 1. Opposite the main entrance to McDonalds there is a teapot shop. gently caress Betty's, it's like tardis with an indoor conservatory and everything. Bonus: If you get a window seat you get to laugh at people queueing outside McDonalds while a waitress brings you delicious food which costs the same as a Big Mac meal. 2. Instead of paying to go into the cathedral, trust me it's not worth the extortionate prices, get a pony and cart tour ride for less money from the stand outside the entrance.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:11
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learnincurve posted:I'm not if sure a nice middle class couple having to drive little Joshua and Henry for an extra 10 mins before they hit miles and miles of countryside is a priority for the homeless tbh.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:11
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Fake-edit-in-a-new-post: those booms have also created a new political reality. Back in the 60s Labour and the Tories used to compete on who could build more council houses every year. That's inconceivable now. Thirty years of booms have convinced everyone that "house prices will always rise" is like Newton's Fourth Law of Motion or something, just a fundamental physical constant of the universe. Lots of people have planned their lives around that supposed fact and so there's a huge amount of resistance to the idea of doing anything that can change it. All this talk in the press of the housing crisis as a new thing is at least a decade and a half behind the times - things have been bad for Joe Average Young Person since at least the mid-2000s. What's changed is that the twentysomethings who couldn't afford houses in 2005 still can't afford them now that they're late-thirtysomethings, and at the same time there's a rising tide of today's twentysomethings also building up behind them. So there's finally getting to be a large enough mass of people for whom houses are forever out of reach that the political calculus is slowly starting to shift in favour of taking their interests at least somewhat seriously.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:12
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Having lived in Taiwan, massive high rises are actually cool and good and give you affordable housing in convenient central locations.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:13
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Zephro posted:If they just nuke all of London, Birmingham and a few other cities and replace the rows of pointless suburban houses with tiny gardens with low-rise courtyarded apartments like you get in Vienna or Amsterdam, with lots of little parks everywhere, that would solve all problems
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Feb 7, 2017 15:14
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? I live in the middle of the countryside, I assure you we are not going to be running out of it any time soon. People this will hurt are those that bought houses next to fields and will see the value of their own house drop.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:17
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The effect that large numbers of international students have on the student housing situation for British students is probably underreported too. I've worked in a couple private accomodation halls who all have started refurbishing the apartmentments, raising the rent through the roof, and end up almost fully populated with International students who can afford the higher rents, and tend to pay fully up front (and tend to cause less trouble, tbh). Loads of poorer/British students end up house-sharing in old, lovely houses on council estates (where they have to pay even more for commuting to uni).
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Feb 7, 2017 15:19
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House prices by region: Average price by country and government office region England £234,278 Northern Ireland £124,093 Scotland £143,033 Wales £146,742 East Midlands £176,524 East of England £278,349 London £481,648 North East £126,989 North West £150,249 South East £313,334 South West £239,371 West Midlands Region £181,372 Yorkshire and The Humber £152,418 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-house-price-index-summary-november-2016/uk-house-price-index-summary-november-2016 There are detailed tables if you want to double check that this isn't doing something weird like comparing mansions in London to small flats in Newcastle (it's not). Stupidly high house prices are a London and South East thing. You can buy a home in the North East if you have some money. And yet, there are people in the North East who are homeless, or in unsuitable accomodation. That's because what a lot of people need isn't a home to buy, as they can't afford that even in the North East, it's good quality social housing to rent at a fair and affordable rent. Also, you apparently now have empty three-bed council homes in the north and long waiting lists for smaller properties, because the bedroom tax means people can't move into larger homes even when they are going spare.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:18
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Baron Corbyn posted:Having lived in Taiwan, massive high rises are actually cool and good and give you affordable housing in convenient central locations.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:20
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Pave over the entirety of the south east and if people want to see a tree they can come visit the good bits of the county and spend their money in local shops there. Or they can go to one of London's many huge parks I guess.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:22
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Pochoclo posted:Aberdeen, one of the cheapest cities to buy...
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Feb 7, 2017 15:23
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Paxman posted:
It's just not true that stupidly high house prices are only a problem in London and the South East.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:25
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It's also worth pointing out that house prices in Yorkshire are very variable. A three bed with a garden can set you back £300,000 or more in York, which will buy you about two streets in Hull.
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Feb 7, 2017 15:26
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