|
Phil is not trying for a stealth tank, he's just really, really bad. I think at this point you can't credit him for tripping on flat ground and finding a dollar on the floor and pretending it was his master plan all along to find a dollar. You look at every move at the start of each season he's made since he came here and it was to win and now he's what, like 75+ games below .500 since he's started collecting checks from dolan
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:40 |
|
|
It's not like the Knicks were good and the cupboard was full when he got there. His big failure might have been accepting what was an impossible job to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
The noah contract is terrible regardless of context, dude was literally coming off major surgery and has only played 70+ games 3 times in his career. Even if you want to somehow argue that Noah was there as a stopgap, you don't give a stop gap 4 years when Kyle O Quinn is already on the roster. Also this whole zing draft thing is stupid. He was picked 4th, and the only team that chose someone else over Zing were the Lakers. Hinkie wanted Zingers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Phil is not trying for a stealth tank, he's just really, really bad. I think at this point you can't credit him for tripping on flat ground and finding a dollar on the floor and pretending it was his master plan all along to find a dollar. You look at every move at the start of each season he's made since he came here and it was to win and now he's what, like 75+ games below .500 since he's started collecting checks from dolan He needed the team to be bad in 2015 to have a change to get his future franchise player in the 2015 draft. If you look at it this way, trading Tyson Chandler and Felton was necessary that offseason to be bad enough to get a good pick. The next season he did not have a pick the previous GM. Making the playoffs that year would be fun for the fans but might have made the Knicks too good to get a draft pick after this season. It makes a lot more sense if this plan was always about building to contend with the 2015 pick and not while Melo is there. On a timeline based around Porzingis everything the Knicks are doing isn't that bad for them longterm. Having Noah fills out cap space while ensuring they are bad enough to get decent draft picks. Rick posted:It's not like the Knicks were good and the cupboard was full when he got there. His big failure might have been accepting what was an impossible job to begin with. This. Quickly turning around the Knicks wasn't a realistic goal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
The cupboard being bare isn't a good excuse to poo poo on it and call it a job well done time to chill at the beach. If Phil insists on winning now he should've traded porzingis. Yeah it;'s an outrageous idea and fans would riot and keep the franchise hosed up but atleast he would committing to a terrible idea instead of waffling about like he's too old to understand what a 3 is in modern nba and displaying no idea on what kind of direction he wants to knicks to move towards. If nothing else fisher was better developing porzingis than hoiberg is but he got fired for not wanting to use the triangle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
shyduck posted:https://twitter.com/BrooklynNets/status/829306224885768192 Of course the Nets would go with this. Was there any doubt? What a poo poo franchise. They probably looked at European ice hockey jersey and really enjoyed the various clashing colors and slogans.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
Hiring Derek Fisher to run the triangle was just bad.Vanilla Mint Ice posted:If nothing else fisher was better developing porzingis than hoiberg is but he got fired for not wanting to use the triangle. Did he?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
He gave Melo a no trade, noah that contract, and has been doing to Melo this year what we ridicule the Bulls management for. Fisher. plus he's been making smug remarks about the game for a while, leading one to question if its passed him by. There is no reason to think he's got, or had, a good plan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
Tae posted:The noah contract is terrible regardless of context, dude was literally coming off major surgery and has only played 70+ games 3 times in his career. Even if you want to somehow argue that Noah was there as a stopgap, you don't give a stop gap 4 years when Kyle O Quinn is already on the roster. The new CBA still contains the stretch provision (and it probably always will going forward as long as the Orlando Magic don't start using it on league minimum players again, which even other owners thought was bad), so they can get rid of him if they need space, which is why no contract is really that bad right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
Jackson also compared Zing to Shawn Bradley so I really think that was luck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:27
|
|
|
The discourse around Phil Jackson is the same as Trump. People are so desperate to see people in higher positions than them as better, in some way, that they literally make up these next level Machiavellian plots because they're more satisfying to believe than the truth which is that they're both loving egomaniacal morons. You're not stealth tanking by signing Joakim Noah for like 16m a year/4yrs
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:27
|
|
|
Femur posted:He gave Melo a no trade, noah that contract, and has been doing to Melo this year what we ridicule the Bulls management for. Rick posted:The new CBA still contains the stretch provision (and it probably always will going forward as long as the Orlando Magic don't start using it on league minimum players again, which even other owners thought was bad), so they can get rid of him if they need space, which is why no contract is really that bad right now. If he was confident enough to think that he could be a big enough dick to get Melo to waive his no trade claus (he probably is, he ran Jerry West away from the Lakers), that's a good move to not lose a player that could be used in the future for more assets. Noah is bad but he keeps the team bad and is known as a good locker room guy. It would not shock me to see his contract traded in the offseason before his last year. This is good to have around developing players while ensuring they get better draft spots. Fisher gets one of his friends paid and keeps them from being too good to get the most important piece, Porzingis. People (at least around here) consider Hinkie a good gm and his job wasn't as hard. If Phil attempted to tank like that in NY, he would have been murdered. straight up brolic posted:The discourse around Phil Jackson is the same as Trump. People are so desperate to see people in higher positions than them as better, in some way, that they literally make up these next level Machiavellian plots because they're more satisfying to believe than the truth which is that they're both loving egomaniacal morons. Jackson should get more slack as he is one of the most successful coaches of all time. Trump did not have most successful of all time anything as an accolade before becoming the President. I don't think you can actually say you are tanking in NY because the fanbase. I'm not saying I outright believe Phil is stealth tanking, just that the Knicks would make more sense in this context under him. Having a good locker room guy on a bad deal is not the worst thing for a lottery team. Especially when you realize pretty much every contract the media has ever dubbed untradedable has later been traded. Spacebump fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:31
|
|
|
Vanilla Mint Ice posted:If nothing else fisher was better developing porzingis than hoiberg is but he got fired for not wanting to use the triangle. I was gonna make fun of your mistake but honestly Hoiberg seems like he should be coaching the Knicks so whatever
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:Well where is he going then? Share your scoops! *nods teacherly @ you*
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
Can someone explain the stretch provision to me? Thank you in advance!
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:37
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:He needed the team to be bad in 2015 to have a change to get his future franchise player in the 2015 draft. If you look at it this way, trading Tyson Chandler and Felton was necessary that offseason to be bad enough to get a good pick. The next season he did not have a pick the previous GM. Making the playoffs that year would be fun for the fans but might have made the Knicks too good to get a draft pick after this season. Look, he's not some kind of puppet master genius at this point of his life. He made those initial moves to win in 2014 and when everything collapsed under him he pivoted towards tanking. The only thing you can credit him for 2014-2015 season is that atleast he made a decision towards one direction and executed it. 2015-2016 was the golden year of hope, of hey maybe phil has a plan (or heaven just dropped a golden egg onto his lap that he has no choice but to accept) and his best move was grabbing lopez for 4 years. He wasn't a superstar but he wasn't going to harm porzingis's development. But then he fires fisher for not playing the triangle. no one knows if this was or is a plus or minus but you gotta think, if we're supposed to be tanking than why would you fire a coach unless he's doing byron scott poo poo And now this year, and there's tons of articles with alot words written about this season out there that I don't need to add onto it
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:38
|
|
|
straight up brolic posted:The discourse around Phil Jackson is the same as Trump. People are so desperate to see people in higher positions than them as better, in some way, that they literally make up these next level Machiavellian plots because they're more satisfying to believe than the truth which is that they're both loving egomaniacal morons. Oh I don't think there's anything subtle going on here, or that he's doing anything spectacular. I just think that it's a bad job and that not actively trading Zing or future picks is about the best you can do with it. The Knicks were under pressure from both the dumber members of their fanbase, and the media (and the league, considering how bad a look it was that the Lakers and Knicks weren't spending any money heading into a new CBA, with at least 5 teams buisness model requiring the Knicks and Lakers to spend luxury tax level money to make them profitable) to spend money, so he spent some money. If for some reason multiple big free agents actually chooses the Knicks, they can get rid of most of that Noah contract fairly quickly, by either paying someone a pick to take him or stretching him. Spacebump posted:If he was confident enough to think that he could be a big enough dick to get Melo to waive his no trade claus, that's a good move to not lose a player that could be used in the future for more assets. Noah is bad but he keeps the team bad and is known as a good locker room guy. It would not shock me to see his contract traded in the offseason before his last year. This is good to have around developing players while ensuring they get better draft spots. Fisher gets one of his friends paid and keeps them from being too good to get the most important piece, Porzingis. People (at least around here) consider Hinkie a good gm and his job wasn't as hard. If Phil attempted to tank like that in NY, he would have been murdered. Yeah and I agree with the fact that Noah's a good locker room guy (by most accounts). Getting him to play for an awful team is going to cost a premium. Rick fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:38
|
|
|
I don't follow the NBA like you guys so i need a favor. How in the hell do the Celtics have back to back unprotected picks from the worst team in the league? I thought all the funny business that happened in the 70's/80's made them change the rules so this could not happen! Also i wanted to get in early and predict the Lakers win the lottery. Let the conspiracy theories begin!
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:39
|
|
|
chilihead posted:I don't follow the NBA like you guys so i need a favor. How in the hell do the Celtics have back to back unprotected picks from the worst team in the league? I thought all the funny business that happened in the 70's/80's made them change the rules so this could not happen! A Russian guy bought the team and demanded to win a title within 5 years. The GM was terrible and traded their future away for the decaying leftovers of the 2008 Boston Celtics core. They are still paying for it today.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
They traded the right to swap a pick. Billy King thinks Ted Stepien was a pussy
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:41
|
|
|
I think Jacksons done a great job with the Knicks barring the Noah signing, and even then every important decision maker in the NBA was handing out stupid rear end contracts last year. Knicks have a franchise player on a rookie deal, a malleable roster in two years, and an actual respectable bench that isn't made up of overpaid vets. If he somehow manages to move Melo this year or next year then the Knicks are in prime position to build around Porzingis instead of building around Melo. I'm okay with that future. Also Jackson got Dolan to stay the gently caress out of Knicks affairs which is worth his contract 10 times over.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
chilihead posted:I don't follow the NBA like you guys so i need a favor. How in the hell do the Celtics have back to back unprotected picks from the worst team in the league? I thought all the funny business that happened in the 70's/80's made them change the rules so this could not happen! The Nets management was/is catastrophically bad and they are owned by the guy that bankrolls 95% of the people you murder in Hotline Miami
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
straight up brolic posted:The discourse around Phil Jackson is the same as Trump. People are so desperate to see people in higher positions than them as better, in some way, that they literally make up these next level Machiavellian plots because they're more satisfying to believe than the truth which is that they're both loving egomaniacal morons. Phil Jackson was a great coach, but he was still lovely GM back then. All of the trades he wanted to make were dumb as poo poo (like the ones he talks about in his books) and his drafts with the Lakers were awful. Its no coincidence that the Lakers started to draft really well once they finally fired all of the scouts he brought in. Like, he was never any good at this part of the job (even though he demanded to do it when he was with the Lakers the first time around)
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
Phil is committing to a plan of not giving up assets while picking a year to have cap space. In the meantime, you make big, dumb flashy moves that don't really handcuff you but at least get some tickets sold and fans something to talk about. I don't think it's genius, but there's not a lot else to do. They will be bad for 3 more years, I promise. Pay Noah to not get in the way of your young guys and try to draft well. There is no other real path here to making the Knicks even a second round team. And no, don't trade Porzingis.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:48
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:A Russian guy bought the team and demanded to win a title within 5 years. The GM was terrible and traded their future away for the decaying leftovers of the 2008 Boston Celtics core. They are still paying for it today. Yeah i get that the picks came from the Garnet, Pierce trade just not how it went down. Guess i'm going to have to look it up but i swear they changed the rules so this poo poo couldn't happen. If you study basketball this is exactly how Boston became good in the 80's as well. Also Michael Jordan is the greatest trash talker in the world and some things never change.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:48
|
|
|
NickRoweFillea posted:Can someone explain the stretch provision to me? Thank you in advance! Teams can waive a guy signed under the current CBA and stretch the cap hit of his remaining contract out over five years. This money is also offset by any sort of contract he signs thereafter. If for some reason it's a guy under the previous CBA, then you can only stretch double the remainder of their contract.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Phil is committing to a plan of not giving up assets while picking a year to have cap space. In the meantime, you make big, dumb flashy moves that don't really handcuff you but at least get some tickets sold and fans something to talk about. Hard to give up assets when the only assets are porzingis and willy. And there's zero point to making 'big, dumb flashy moves' because EVERYONE in new york was already excited and talking about porzingis. No one was seriously trying to say we should be making the finals on porzingis's 2nd year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
NOLA comedian continues his series of observations while attending games behind the opposing team's bench at Pelican home games: http://uproxx.com/dimemag/russell-westbrook-kevin-durant-oklahoma-city-thunder/4/[/url]quote:Steven Adams is one of those bigger-than-you-think-he-is types and is very good at tuning out the noise. The only time I was able to get his attention was when he was having trouble lifting the cover off the Gatorade cups and I asked him if he needed help. He snarled then winked at me. Then he consumed about six more cups of Gatorade over the course of the first half, the most I’ve ever seen a player drink. quote:Most visiting players and coaches cannot handle the Pelicans Senior Citizen Dance Team and the Oklahoma City trainers fell right in line. During timeouts they were easily distracted by the grandmas and grandpas poppin’, lockin’, and droppin’. I am not ashamed of that last sentence. Also, Kanter is apparently always angry and Donovan/the Thunder will have fans kicked out for yelling Durant's name, even at Thunder away games.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:52
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Phil is committing to a plan of not giving up assets while picking a year to have cap space. In the meantime, you make big, dumb flashy moves that don't really handcuff you but at least get some tickets sold and fans something to talk about. Exactly. Jackson wants to 'win now' and that's all lip service. He knows what it takes to win a championship: two or three all-star players. I really can't explain the Noah signing but the Rose pickup was most definitely to sate the fans. Hell even I was interested to get Rose for a year. Jackson isn't this grand mastermind. He's going to make the Knicks really bad to make them really good. They're going to suck this year, they're going to suck next year, and probably the year after that. Hopefully during that time something disastrous doesn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:52
|
|
|
Kibner posted:Also, Kanter is apparently always angry and Donovan/the Thunder will have fans kicked out for yelling Durant's name, even at Thunder away games. What the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
Kibner posted:Also, Kanter is apparently always angry and Donovan/the Thunder will have fans kicked out for yelling Durant's name, even at Thunder away games. lmao that's amazing
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
Metapod posted:What the gently caress quote:But the most common suggestion was something about Kevin Durant, so I decided to yell out the former Thunder MVP’s name during a Russell Westbrook free throw in the second quarter. Right before he settled into his shooting motion and a second before the section behind the basket starting amping up their volume, I struck with a crystal clear “Kevin Durant” scream. Westbrook missed the free throw, section 114 had a good laugh for a rare fan-effected play, and Billy Donovan lost his cool. Donovans a baby back bitch
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
Chris Webber says that Melo should go to Memphis and I'm having a hearty laugh at the idea of him trying to convince Lala to move to the midsouth. It seems that a lot of talking heads are convinced that since we did it for players like Zbo and Tony Allen, all players with baggage or checkered circumstances should be sent to the Island of M(emphis)isfit Toys
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
What is this poo poo? "You are not allowed to say Kevin Durant's name?" Get the gently caress out. edit: This is amazing to me and I hope there will be a game where hundreds of fans start chanting "Kevin Durant" and Billy melts down into a puddle of goo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
chilihead posted:Yeah i get that the picks came from the Garnet, Pierce trade just not how it went down. Guess i'm going to have to look it up but i swear they changed the rules so this poo poo couldn't happen. If you study basketball this is exactly how Boston became good in the 80's as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
"He also kept screaming 'get your hands off me' to whoever was guarding him." re: Kanter is the funniest thing I've read in a while
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
Cool Buff Man posted:"He also kept screaming “get your hands off me” to whoever was guarding him." re: Kanter is the funniest thing I've read in a while People who play like that in pickup are always the ones who are one step away from hurting someone or themselves (go figure with Kanter)
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
straight up brolic posted:This is correct. You can't give up picks in consecutive years. The Nets gave up unprotected, pick swap, unprotected. It's literally the worst trade in NBA history and Billy King traded Gerald Wallace for the #6 pick in the draft I still think the Wallace trade was the most hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:18
|
|
man
|
Once again, Stephen Curry has found himself in the middle of a political issue. Under Armour CEO Kevin Plank, in an interview with CNBC, said President Donald Trump is an “asset” to the country. “I agree with that description,” Curry said, “if you remove the ‘et’” from asset. http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/08/stephen-curry-respond-to-trump-love-from-under-amours-ceo/ Lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:40 |
|
|
straight up brolic posted:This is correct. You can't give up picks in consecutive years. The Nets gave up unprotected, pick swap, unprotected. It's literally the worst trade in NBA history and Billy King traded Gerald Wallace for the #6 pick in the draft Because there were only 5 players worth drafting that year 2 of those 5 fell past #5
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 00:24
|
|