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forkboy84 posted:lol at expecting the British public to understand this level of parliamentary procedure. People, if they care to look, look to see who voted for what & no further than that. A Corbyn lead Labour Party will have a hell of a time explaining that. Most people aren't going to blame the opposition for something the government would have pushed through anyway. The way people in this thread are reacting it's like the decision to Brexit was just taken tonight. It wasn't. All the major parties voted for a referendum, and implicitly to abide by the result. Your angst is way overdue.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:04
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OwlFancier posted:Then that is their drat fault. Again there is no voting position which can magically convey anything other than unconditional support, unconditional opposition, or unconditional apathy to those inclined to look at it that way. Well, conditional support was possible, but instead they just appear to have gone for unconditional support for the worst decision in British political history since...I dunno, electing Thatcher in 1979.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:04
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I actually just renewed my membership and I think I'll definitely vote for Tom next GE much as I think he's a bit of a liberal pillock.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:04
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jabby posted:Most people aren't going to blame the opposition for something the government would have pushed through anyway. Well no, I've been quite angsty since a few days before the referendum happened, when I first figured that Leave had a far too good a chance to win just because of the general pisspoor Remain campaign and general status quo inertia. So I've been fairly angsty about this for sometime. It just got worse with Corbyn's stupid loving decision for the three line whip on this vote.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:07
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forkboy84 posted:It just got worse with Corbyn's stupid loving decision for the three line whip on this vote. Why? Did it change anything?
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Feb 9, 2017 00:07
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TheRat posted:Dont sign your posts Yeah, gently caress off. On Friday I'm going to have to explain to people why the food bank can't give out the usual parcels, and why from next week we won't be able to give out any, because the last source of funding has dried up. You think austerity has been hard? Wait until you see what happens when the whole economy falls off a cliff. I am Jeremy Corbyn and I support the Tories in voting for utter economic chaos.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:08
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Let it be known that England is worse then Scotland because Scotland didn't vote to kill itself twice.OwlFancier posted:She's really not. She actually is.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:09
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TheHoodedClaw posted:Yeah, gently caress off. On Friday I'm going to have to explain to people why the food bank can't give out the usual parcels, and why from next week we won't be able to give out any, because the last source of funding has dried up. You think austerity has been hard? Wait until you see what happens when the whole economy falls off a cliff. Yeah this is definitely all because of Corbyn. Your anger is 100% correctly placed and you're not being an insufferable cock.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:09
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TheHoodedClaw posted:Yeah, gently caress off. On Friday I'm going to have to explain to people why the food bank can't give out the usual parcels, and why from next week we won't be able to give out any, because the last source of funding has dried up. ...Capitalism?
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Feb 9, 2017 00:10
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Corbyn: the 'hope is a lie' Labour leader.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:12
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Fact that we're leaving the EU? In my opinion given the social and economic ramifications, bad. That Labour voted for A50 in support of the referendum decision to leave the EU? Good. It puts them in a good position with a public from what I can see. They supported democracy in a democratic society. Don't like that? Tough poo poo. vv: So would I, but a direct referendum is as close as we'll get to it and alas, remain lost. And given we're a "democratic society" there's no such thing as a non-binding vote like that. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 00:14
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Kokoro Wish posted:Fact that we're leaving the EU? In my opinion given the social and economic ramifications, bad. I would probably put some massive air quotes around both "democracy" and "democratic society"
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Feb 9, 2017 00:16
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Hmm there's something that all these people who think labour were right to support the Tories on Brexit have in common if only I could put my finger on it.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:17
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Oh yeah they're all massive loving Corbyn apologists cheering the oval office on as he drives Labour into irrelevancy. Carry on lads you're doing a great loving job  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 9, 2017 00:19
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Pissflaps posted:Hmm there's something that all these people who think labour were right to support the Tories on Brexit have in common if only I could put my finger on it. We're not you? Pissflaps posted:Oh yeah they're all massive loving Corbyn apologists cheering the oval office on as he drives Labour into irrelevancy. Carry on lads you're doing a great loving job Also you though neo-liberal shithouse Labour that lost two elections and the leadership of the party were relevant. That's adorable.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:19
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TheHoodedClaw posted:it's the complete failure of the responsibilities of Opposition since the referendum campaign started. Labour did better with their supporters than the tories did. It's also farcial to say the referendum particularly hinged on the referendum campaign; I doubt it helped but the country had, for decades, been under an assault of fake stories about EU meddling and the dangers of the outside world (New Labour was not immune, given their rhetoric on the ghastly asylum seekers).
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Feb 9, 2017 00:20
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TheRat posted:Yeah this is definitely all because of Corbyn. Your anger is 100% correctly placed and you're not being an insufferable cock. Of course it's not all on Corbyn. He has completely and utterly failed to mitigate loving anything that the Tories - with a very small majority - have done though. I suppose he's still playing 11-dimensional chess or something though.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:20
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Kokoro Wish posted:We're not you? drat right you're not me. I want a Labour government. You want a hashtag.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:21
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sebzilla posted:...Capitalism? Yeah, obviously. Don't mind me, I'm just not looking forward to Friday very much.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:22
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Pissflaps posted:Hmm there's something that all these people who think labour were right to support the Tories on Brexit have in common if only I could put my finger on it. Dismay at seeing the only leftwing party leader in a generation being abandoned and cursed out by erstwhile supporters over what amounts to a meaningless vote? I mean this is as perfect a demonstration as you're going to get of why the left never makes any headway. People genuinely seem to be looking for an excuse to go back to apathy not because Corbyn turned out to secretly kick puppies, but because he didn't get his rhetorical position to their liking.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:22
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TheRat posted:Why? Did it change anything? Well, at the time I assumed it was him volunteering to stick his head onto the chopping block as a massive wave of rebellions occurred for the second time in a year, within & without the Shadow Cabinet. Clearly that hasn't happened, which is a shame. So no, of course it didn't change anything, but symbolism matters in politics when you're the opposition and you can change very loving little because the government has a solid majority. Agreeing to have the referendum without a threshold like they put on the first Scottish devolution referendum was stupid, and agreeing to give the Tories carte blancé in negotiations is stupid too, and poo poo is going to get really bad. Not immediately though, so the Brexit supporters will continue harping about how it's fine, stop talking us down & such shite until then. I mean, maybe it increases the chances of Scottish independence but frankly I'm not hopeful on that front either, when things in the economy start going really bad again (which will of course be used to cut back public expenditure even further, so much for £350m extra for the NHS!) I suspect people will be conservative and generally wary of another big constitutional change. It does mean I want to go to the doors of every liberal famous twat who begged us to vote to stay in 2014 like Dan Snow and piss on their steps though.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:22
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jabby posted:Dismay at seeing the only leftwing party leader in a generation being abandoned and cursed out by erstwhile supporters over what amounts to a meaningless vote? Meaningless?? gently caress off.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:22
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jabby posted:Dismay at seeing the only leftwing party leader in a generation being abandoned and cursed out by erstwhile supporters over what amounts to a meaningless vote? Being anti-brexit, or at least having very tight controls to ensure the softest of brexits, is the only approach which protects the less well off in this country. It's hardly a meaningless soundbite like whether or not he's particularly fond of cycle lanes.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:24
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TheHoodedClaw posted:Of course it's not all on Corbyn. He has completely and utterly failed to mitigate loving anything that the Tories - with a very small majority - have done though. I suppose he's still playing 11-dimensional chess or something though. No, he's just unfortunately part of a majority rule, first-past-the-post system, and had no chance of amending anything without Tory rebels. They tried gamely, but in the end, there were no loving rebels. So we trigger article 50 and get to the important part. Seeing what the negotiations produce, trying to get better deals out of the ruling party and holding them to account for the next election when it (most likely) all goes tits up.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:26
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spectralent posted:Being anti-brexit, or at least having very tight controls to ensure the softest of brexits, is the only approach which protects the less well off in this country. I dont see why Theresa May would do any of these things, and she is the only one with the power to do so.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:26
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jabby posted:Dismay at seeing the only leftwing party leader in a generation being abandoned and cursed out by erstwhile supporters over what amounts to a meaningless vote? Oh gently caress off. It's not a rhetorical position (and even if it is, it's a poo poo one that will piss off pro-Remain supporters while not going far enough to win over Leave voters). And it's hardly the only lovely thing he's done in 18 months, just the straw that broke the camels back. He's been poison as leader in polling, and has failed to deliver the only expectations I've had as far as reform of internal Labour Party democracy and dragging the national dialogue in the country to the left and to a slightly more compassionate place. I'm not abandoning him, I'm expressing frustration at his flaws. Which is what you do with any loving politician for godsake. Just because he's the first left Labour leader since Foot doesn't mean you give him a free pass on everything loving stupid he says or does, we're not a cult for fucksake. Also gently caress off for confusing people getting really angry about something that will impact their lives as apathy. That's the opposite of apathy you cretin. Kokoro Wish posted:Adorable. Please stop engaging with the smug oval office.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:27
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TheRat posted:I dont see why Theresa May would do any of these things, and she is the only one with the power to do so. but you see, with meaningful opposition she would change her mind! It's so loving easy!
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Feb 9, 2017 00:27
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Pissflaps posted:drat right you're not me. I want a Labour government. You want a hashtag. Adorable. 
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Feb 9, 2017 00:27
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Kokoro Wish posted:trying to get better deals out of the ruling party and holding them to account Holy gently caress lol
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Feb 9, 2017 00:28
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TheHoodedClaw posted:Yeah, gently caress off. On Friday I'm going to have to explain to people why the food bank can't give out the usual parcels, and why from next week we won't be able to give out any, because the last source of funding has dried up. I disagree with your political point, but just wanted to send you best wishes for Friday. I've been in a similar situation so can sort of relate. Pissflaps posted:No he needs to be humiliated at the next general election and have his idiot nose rubbed in the poo poo he's done on the carpet. I must say that the thought of your impotent rage when he resigns well in advance of the next election will be a small silver lining in this rather miserable cloud. 
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Feb 9, 2017 00:28
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Pissflaps posted:drat right you're not me. I want a Labour government. You want a hashtag. you want labour to lose the next GE you knob
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Feb 9, 2017 00:29
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Dabir posted:you want labour to lose the next GE you knob I want labour to win the next general election. Corbyn and his supporters have guaranteed this is not going to happen.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:30
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Prince John posted:I must say that the thought of your impotent rage when he resigns well in advance of the next election will be a small silver lining in this rather miserable cloud. Bit small minded but I have to admit I'm flattered to be that big a deal in your life.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:31
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Pissflaps posted:I want labour to win the next general election. I agree with the Flappening, at this point you'll have more success by joining the Tories and voting for a left wing candidate from the inside.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:31
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TheRat posted:I dont see why Theresa May would do any of these things, and she is the only one with the power to do so. Arguably Labour could've attempted to scout out tory rebels and force amendments, but let's cut to the chase: The comment from Labour on this was "We unconditionally support the Tory's vision of mad-max england". There was no "We will fight tooth and nail to get these amendments and raise a stink" at any point. It looks a whole lot like total capitulation at best and complicity at worst. I don't feel my views were fought for at all; do you honestly feel remain had any representation of any sort in the past few days? It's been beyond a joke.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:31
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TheRat posted:Yeah this is definitely all because of Corbyn. Your anger is 100% correctly placed and you're not being an insufferable cock. He voted for it. He loving voted for it despite no amendments been made. He didn't do anything at loving all to combat this from getting through, instead doing the exact loving opposite. Claw has every right to be angry considering the people who are going to head into the food bank are going to loving starve more then ever because some oval office couldn't get his head out of his rear end. I wouldn't of blamed Corbyn if he loving clearly state that he would have the labour party vote against it if no amendments were made to the labour party's satisfaction. At the least it would mean that if no amendments were made that any Tory Rebel would actually have a chance to vote against it with full knowing that Labour were going to vote against it. Instead what he decied to do was the equivalent of putting a loving gun into his foot and threatened the tories that if they don't agree to the amendments he will shoot himself which he did and the tories are laughing at how bullshit it was.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:31
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I know I'm right about most things. I never expected to be so thunderfuckingly right about Corbyn, or be proved so right so early.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:32
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Kokoro Wish posted:So we trigger article 50 and get to the important part. Seeing what the negotiations produce, trying to get better deals out of the ruling party and holding them to account for the next election when it (most likely) all goes tits up. Assuming the Lords can't change anything, there's not going to *be* any opportunities to get better deals out of the ruling party.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:33
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spectralent posted:Arguably Labour could've attempted to scout out tory rebels and force amendments, but let's cut to the chase: The comment from Labour on this was "We unconditionally support the Tory's vision of mad-max england". There was no "We will fight tooth and nail to get these amendments and raise a stink" at any point. It looks a whole lot like total capitulation at best and complicity at worst. I don't feel my views were fought for at all; do you honestly feel remain had any representation of any sort in the past few days? It's been beyond a joke. Remain isnt a thing, and hasnt been a thing since June 23rd 2016. The only thing that needed representation was getting the best possible version of Leave, and even that was a symbolic fight because of the Tories having strict majority.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:33
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if you want to blame someone for this, blame Miliband for being a poo poo leader and a poo poo campaigner above all else maybe Labour could have done something if they had enough MPS to be impactful, but, for some reason, they don't
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Feb 9, 2017 00:33
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