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Paracaidas posted:You're absolutely correct, a wide majority of the voters prefer Soft Brexit to Hard Brexit. I'd be willing to wager any sum you'd like, though, that a wide majority also favor Remain to Hard Brexit. Actually, I'm pretty sure that a recent poll, posted in this thread, shows that people would prefer Hard Brexit to Remain. I mean, I could be wrong, given that some people think that linking every single poll that crosses their Twitter feed is somehow a public service, but I recall something like that being posted. Anyway, official media haven't really given Labour MPs much chance to explain themselves - thankfully, my MP sent out an email last week explaining her decision to vote to invoke Article 50: Joan Ryan, MP posted:On Wednesday 1st February I, along with the majority of my Labour Party Parliamentary colleagues and other MPs, voted to allow the Prime Minister to trigger Article 50 and begin the process of leaving the European Union.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 08:02 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 16:47 |
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Joan Ryan posted:Labour will not give the government a blank cheque in the negotiation process – we will hold the Conservatives to account. They did that last night, though. No matter how much they say they didn't, they did. Basically,
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 08:08 |
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Paracaidas posted:He could lay down the whip and let members vote however they'd like. It would lose the benefit(?) of a unified Labour front, but would allow Remain a few figurehead to rally behind as everything goes to poo poo. The cynic in me says he avoided it because a coup might actually work if a Remain Figurehead in his shadow cabinet gave it a shot after a year or so. Don't you think Clive Lewis's decision to resign might allow him to cast himself in this role anyway? Speaking of which, I wonder which direction this thread's posters would swing in a Lewis/Corbyn leadership election. I'd definitely cast my vote for Lewis in that scenario.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 08:10 |
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TinTower posted:They did that last night, though. No matter how much they say they didn't, they did. Lib dems actually propping up the tories for five years = giving them a blank check. Labour voting with a tory majority = literally immaterial, tories can write their own checks. I really don't think you get to complain. Baron Corbyn posted:Don't you think Clive Lewis's decision to resign might allow him to cast himself in this role anyway? Speaking of which, I wonder which direction this thread's posters would swing in a Lewis/Corbyn leadership election. I'd definitely cast my vote for Lewis in that scenario. Leaning towards Lewis. I do wish I had more experience with his conduct as an MP though.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 08:48 |
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Paracaidas posted:You're absolutely correct, a wide majority of the voters prefer Soft Brexit to Hard Brexit. I'd be willing to wager any sum you'd like, though, that a wide majority also favor Remain to Hard Brexit. Corbyn has sold the principles of his party out for the chance at converting the mythical Centrist Brexit into Labour voters. It's the epitome of the worst impulses of PLP but somehow it's okay this time because it's our guy. A large percentage of remain voters feel that the outcome of the referendum should be respected because ~~fair play~~. According to polls posted in here, hard brexit is preferred to remain.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 09:21 |
All glory to the infallible pollsters
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 09:21 |
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Referendums are dangerous political tools and the Conservatives vague EU ref really hosed us all harder than any dead pig. Corbyn wants Brexit to get going because right now the fantasy of "Britain Grate!" is completely unshiftable until Brexit actually happens and opposing a referendum is unthinkable for a major party. It's a poo poo situation the Conservatives threw the country in to win 2015. Now Corbyn's going to throw us in the poo poo to try win 2020. Britain Grate!
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 09:34 |
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Fans posted:Referendums are dangerous political tools and the Conservatives vague EU ref really hosed us all harder than any dead pig. You don't know what cheerleading is. I had an e-mail back from my labour clp this morning telling me they don't have the authority to accept my resignation and will let me know who I have to contact. Either way the DD is cancelled, but I guess this might be how labour could inflate member numbers for a long time. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:09 |
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its cool that cameron hosed the country then quit and wandered off doodling to himself
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:16 |
Apparently if you join a rival party to Labour it'll speed up the process by getting you kicked out
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:16 |
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:it's two years unless the rest of the EU allow an extension no one seriously believes it'll all be done in two years. an extension is a given.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:27 |
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An exstension requires the approval of all EU member states. It is anything but given. Remember the 2 years are not there for negotiating a new (trade) deal, it is for negotiating the exit deal.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:31 |
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serious gaylord posted:You don't know what cheerleading is. Why are you so important that you need to resign from the Labour Party? Cancel your DD, cut your membership card up and post pictures of it on social media like all the other whiny little babies have done in the past.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:33 |
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Cerv posted:no one seriously believes it'll all be done in two years. an extension is a given. I don't believe there are any mechanisms for extension, are there?
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:33 |
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Fans posted:Referendums are dangerous political tools and the Conservatives vague EU ref really hosed us all harder than any dead pig. I remember posting a guardian article by david mitchell saying that "isn't this the reason we have elected politicians". It's so clear that loads of people didn't really understand what they were voting for over brexit. Most people find politics incredibly dull and boring. Cameron really is a piece of poo poo, I hope history never forgets what he did to this country.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:38 |
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OwlFancier posted:Leaning towards Lewis. I do wish I had more experience with his conduct as an MP though. Lewis seems to share a lot of socialist principles, I'm just not sure I trust him not to hand the party back to Progress and the labour right in exchange for a good looking shadow cabinet and a boost in the media. If he actually challenges Corbyn he'd be alienating the very few left wing MPs labour have, and I don't have faith that he would stick to principles when he could be hailed as the person who made Labour 'electable' again by locking the membership and the left out of power forever. Personally I'll be voting for Corbyn until a successor comes along he feels he can step down for. I'm not going to vote for a challenger just because they say the correct left wing things (see: Owen Smith).
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:41 |
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Junkozeyne posted:An exstension requires the approval of all EU member states. It is anything but given. Remember the 2 years are not there for negotiating a new (trade) deal, it is for negotiating the exit deal. it's not in the interests of the EU or the remaining member states for the UK to bomb out without an exit deal being agreed. Darth Walrus posted:I don't believe there are any mechanisms for extension, are there? Cerv fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Feb 9, 2017 |
# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:51 |
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Cerv posted:it's not in the interests of the EU or the remaining member states for the UK to bomb out without an exit deal being agreed. The EU sure as hell don't want the UK still in play with their vote when it comes time to draft the next 6 year mutual financial framework so the maximum an extension would probably be is a year kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Feb 9, 2017 |
# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:55 |
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I can't wait for one of the states to consistently block out of spite/their own nationalism.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 10:57 |
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Yeah, that's the big catch here, unanimity. We don't have enough friends left on the mainland to rely on that.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:06 |
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Yeah, the EU doesn't want a messy exit but they also don't want to drag this out for years longer. They may early on agree to a transition period with clearly defined rights and responsibilities though.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:12 |
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Just assume everything is going to be poo poo, the NHS will be sold, and the country will get worse and worse until it goes full fash because honestly it's the most likely cause of action. Me, I'm already assuming I'm going to have to move to Ireland. Hopefully I won't get killed when the troubles kick off again.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:13 |
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https://twitter.com/JamieMcConkey/status/829606870251929601
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:19 |
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Cerv posted:it's not in the interests of the EU or the remaining member states for the UK to bomb out without an exit deal being agreed. Not a single EU state benefits from the UK being screwed over? Not a single leader is gonna go, hmm, if the UK isn't a factor, we'll get X more jobs? You really think that?
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:30 |
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Me, I'm already assuming I'm going to have to move to Ireland. Hopefully I won't get killed when the troubles kick off again. Ireland, sure to be fine, alone on the periphery of Europe with almost 1 in 5 of its citizens emigrating, massively in debt, in the midst of Brussels mandated Austerity, selling off its public services, introducing regressive taxation, with one of its main trading partners hosed beyond belief.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:31 |
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As it's sort of valid to the discussion (I wasn't going to post it otherwise), there was a YouGov poll yesterday from a sample of Britain and other countries with their opinions on who needs the other most - article and data here; Most Brits think the EU needs the UK at least as much as the UK needs the EU. And the two graphs for quick reference (hopefully they work); E: Fixed graphs - thank you HJB. Laradus fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Feb 9, 2017 |
# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:35 |
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Carborundum posted:Ireland, sure to be fine, alone on the periphery of Europe with almost 1 in 5 of its citizens emigrating, massively in debt, in the midst of Brussels mandated Austerity, selling off its public services, introducing regressive taxation, with one of its main trading partners hosed beyond belief. We'll be alright, I might save this post and ask you about it again in 5 years e: please stay and wallow in your own mess, we have to pursue a policy of Ireland First WeAreTheRomans fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Feb 9, 2017 |
# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:35 |
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People saying "i'm going to move to Ireland if the UK leaves the EU!" baffles me in the same way that "Labour didn't try to block Article 50 so i'm going to vote Lib Dem!" does.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:36 |
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WeAreTheRomans posted:We'll be alright, I might save this post and ask you about it again in 5 years You say that before all the Lib Dems move to Dublin and start voting for FG and deliver full liberalism now
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:39 |
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kustomkarkommando posted:You say that before all the Lib Dems move to Dublin and start voting for FG and deliver full liberalism now it's true I might have underestimated the UK's ability to ruin other countries, specially given historical precedent
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:44 |
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MikeCrotch posted:People saying "i'm going to move to Ireland if the UK leaves the EU!" baffles me in the same way that "Labour didn't try to block Article 50 so i'm going to vote Lib Dem!" does. I'm an EU citizen who only speaks English, my options are somewhat limited.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:54 |
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So, of the top ten Remain constituencies, four of their MPs voted for Brexit: Umunna (Streatham, #1), Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington, #3), Corbyn (Islington North, #4), and Hoey (Vauxhall, #10). Of the top hundred Leave constituencies, only one voted to remain: Creagh (Wakfield, #100).
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:55 |
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https://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/829621395764023296
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 11:56 |
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WeAreTheRomans posted:it's true I might have underestimated the UK's ability to ruin other countries, specially given historical precedent Too be fair though its not like Irish people are particularly good at the old voting lark. coughcoughFFresurgancecough
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:01 |
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Can't wait to see him suffer the consequences for attempted sexual assault ahahahahaha
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:03 |
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Laradus posted:As it's sort of valid to the discussion (I wasn't going to post it otherwise), there was a YouGov poll yesterday from a sample of Britain and other countries with their opinions on who needs the other most - article and data here; I've fixed your graphs for you. Thing is, if the EU happens to dissolve within a generation or so of us leaving, then technically "we" (and Norway) are right.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:05 |
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God I love that woman.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:07 |
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Thank you - I knew i'd hosed it up but didn't want to imageleech. Fixed it in the original as well. PS - I think telling David Davis to gently caress off is always a Correct response, kiss or not.
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:09 |
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Aside from forcing all the MPs to vote for his precious brexit and tanking their standing in the polls, what has Great Helmsman Corbyn managed to achieve in his time taking up space at the top of the Labour Party?
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# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:15 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 16:47 |
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MikeCrotch posted:People saying "i'm going to move to Ireland if the UK leaves the EU!" baffles me in the same way that "Labour didn't try to block Article 50 so i'm going to vote Lib Dem!" does. They didn't not try to block it. They threw the weight of their entire party machine (broken down Fiesta though it is) behind it, unbolting the last flimsy gate to the hardest possible brexit. People are considering voting for someone else as that doesn't reflect their views. Our system seems to be hosed. Parties are completely divorced from any belief or philosophy, or certainly wish to avoid the electoral consequences of having one. We probably need some new ones with some new ideas. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Feb 9, 2017 |
# ? Feb 9, 2017 12:16 |