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I'd don't see any cause to cheer for Turkish soldiers being killed for no reason, even if they were Kerdoganist comars. It's really poor taste.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:10
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Volkerball posted:Anyone have a link to these tweets, because I'm not taking her word for it. She's either a bit paranoid, or she plays it up for a paranoid audience. She was ranting on twitter about how she thought she was being poisoned while she was in Syria. Like yeah, yesterday you were contributing on RT, but today they're trying to silence your message with plutonium tea. Plus she has zero integrity and I would go outside and check if she told me the sky was blue. Let's not forget that she complained that The Nation has too many Jewish writers.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:29
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Guy who believes Aleppo women were killing themselves to avoid rape despite the complete lack of evidence, who reposted "Final Goodbyes from Aleppo" videos from people who all ended up surviving, and thinks Bashar ran false-flag terrorist attacks against himself: "Prove Rania Khalek didn't just make up the Michael Weiss tweets."
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Feb 10, 2017 03:37
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Thug Lessons posted:Guy who believes Aleppo women were killing themselves to avoid rape despite the complete lack of evidence, who reposted "Final Goodbyes from Aleppo" videos from people who all ended up surviving, and thinks Bashar ran false-flag terrorist attacks against himself: "Prove Rania Khalek didn't just make up the Michael Weiss tweets." You sound really happy and self-satisfied.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:42
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TildeATH posted:You sound really happy and self-satisfied. I definitely, definitely am.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:44
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Thug Lessons posted:I'd don't see any cause to cheer for Turkish soldiers being killed for no reason, even if they were Kerdoganist comars. It's really poor taste. Being 100% pro-YPG is Panzeh's gimmick, and they're definitely happy when Turkish soldiers get killed.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:51
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Thug Lessons posted:Guy who believes Aleppo women were killing themselves to avoid rape despite the complete lack of evidence, who reposted "Final Goodbyes from Aleppo" videos from people who all ended up surviving, and thinks Bashar ran false-flag terrorist attacks against himself: "Prove Rania Khalek didn't just make up the Michael Weiss tweets." I noticed a distinct lack of Thug Lessons when the Amnesty International report broke.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:42
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https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201702101050525765-turkey-satisfied-russia-incident/ Russia and Turkey seem to be bound and determined to not gently caress up carving up Syria. Because that's what this is starting to look like. And it really makes a kind of surreal pall over the new nature of this war - Syria, the FSA, and the Kurds all kind of having a detente with each other while they jointly fight ISIS, while the radical rebels fight amongst themselves in their Idlib Bantuland. Who knows if it'll hold once ISIS is gone, of course.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:57
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Ba'athists might make a little comeback in the aftermath of Daesh http://iswresearch.blogspot.com/2017/02/warning-update-iraqs-sunni-insurgency.html Also, does anybody know of a source like airwars.org that tracks Russian airstrikes in Syria? In particular I'm looking for information on the Kuznetsov's air wing's operations. I know that's hard to come by because Russia doesn't always announce that poo poo, but I'm hoping somebody somewhere has been tracking it.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:58
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201702101050525765-turkey-satisfied-russia-incident/
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Feb 10, 2017 06:03
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Sinteres posted:Being 100% pro-YPG is Panzeh's gimmick, and they're definitely happy when Turkish soldiers get killed. It's an honestly held opinion, thank you. And name another avowedly left wing faction in Syria.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:03
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Cease to Hope posted:I noticed a distinct lack of Thug Lessons when the Amnesty International report broke. I don't really see a reason to issue a solidarity condemnation of every atrocity to score internet points. When I'm in places where people actually defend Bashar, (reddit, other forums), the atrocities in Syrian prisons are my go-to example of why he's indefensible.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:34
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That actually brings up a somewhat interesting point in that the rebels aren't actually that interested in the prisons, even though they're arguably the greatest atrocity of the war from any side. What they are very, very interested in is atrocities that are militarily relevant, most notably the recent siege of Aleppo. We were told over and over again that the government/Russian bombing campaign was literally the Holocaust, that hundreds of thousands of civilians were trapped in the city with no food and under constant bombardment, the women are killing themselves because they'll be raped otherwise, and so on. I actually got caught up in myself and if you look back in the thread you can see me re-posting White Helmets propaganda, which I deeply regret. Anyway, when all the dust settled, how many people were killed? From what I can tell, judging by the reports from SOHR and SNHR (both rebel sources), in the final months between August and December it was around 3,000 people. That's a lot of people, but it's not the Holocaust. It's not even anything particularly notable to write home about in a siege. The US killed more people than that in Fallujah in a matter of weeks. And for that matter there weren't hundreds of thousands of people in Aleppo at all, there were tens of thousands, again judging by the reports of refugees we get from pro-rebel human rights groups. It was around this time that I really started to realize how completely full of poo poo the rebel propagandists were, how they were just lying and parading around civilian corpses to deflect from their massive military defeat. And that's all the "Holocaust Aleppo" was in the end, a propaganda campaign to try and rope Western governments into intervention by sensationalizing and outright lying about the situation. The rebels will never go that hard on the prisons, because unlike Aleppo the prisons aren't militarily relevant.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:59
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Thug Lessons posted:Anyway, when all the dust settled, how many people were killed? From what I can tell, judging by the reports from SOHR and SNHR (both rebel sources), in the final months between August and December it was around 3,000 people. That's a lot of people, but it's not the Holocaust. It's not even anything particularly notable to write home about in a siege. The US killed more people than that in Fallujah in a matter of weeks. And for that matter there weren't hundreds of thousands of people in Aleppo at all, there were tens of thousands, again judging by the reports of refugees we get from pro-rebel human rights groups. It was around this time that I really started to realize how completely full of poo poo the rebel propagandists were, how they were just lying and parading around civilian corpses to deflect from their massive military defeat. And that's all the "Holocaust Aleppo" was in the end, a propaganda campaign to try and rope Western governments into intervention by sensationalizing and outright lying about the situation. The rebels will never go that hard on the prisons, because unlike Aleppo the prisons aren't militarily relevant. First of all, you're terrible. Second and unrelated to that, I've noticed multiple times that alot of Middle Easterners throw around the term "Holocaust" kind of willy nilly whenever something terrible is going around and its quite disconcerting to read and hear, you don't have to call something the "Holocaust of X" to get attention, and for me, the only attention that generates is negative as it leads me to believe that here is a person who doesn't really properly acknowledge what the Holocaust was.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:06
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so how many people did pro-Assad forces arrest in Aleppo after "liberating" it? because that seemed to be the threat that the rebels were hyping up. that's the impression I got, at least. it's a trick question because there's no way to know. at least for a couple years, until the next amnesty international report nobody pays any attention to.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:13
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Cease to Hope posted:so how many people did pro-Assad forces arrest in Aleppo after "liberating" it? because that seemed to be the threat that the rebels were hyping up. that's the impression I got, at least. Well there was definitely supposed to be some sort of insane massacre when the city fell. Again, you had these reports about how Aleppo women were committing suicide because the only other option was being raped to death. You had all these English-language journalists giving their "last messages" before the impending slaughter. It never materialized. If it did you'd definitely be hearing about it because Volkerball and the people suckered in by rebel propaganda would have put it out on a bullhorn in this very thread, not to mention the mainstream news. Instead most left on foot or green buses.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:19
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so are you saying pro-Assad forces didn't disappear anyone in Aleppo to prisons where mass graves are going to be found in 2018 or what i don't think "haha! look at these people who exaggerated as they feared for their lives because of the advance of a mass murderer's army" is really the super awesome forum poster own that you think it is
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Feb 10, 2017 07:35
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Randarkman posted:First of all, you're terrible. Second and unrelated to that, I've noticed multiple times that alot of Middle Easterners throw around the term "Holocaust" kind of willy nilly whenever something terrible is going around and its quite disconcerting to read and hear, you don't have to call something the "Holocaust of X" to get attention, and for me, the only attention that generates is negative as it leads me to believe that here is a person who doesn't really properly acknowledge what the Holocaust was. True, but the context is that the voices of Syrians who are being brutalized by Assad are among the most marginalized in the world. In many cases, if you're consciously looking for news that isn't an official state account of what's going on there, the only source you're going to find is the victims themselves. And from their perspective, Assad is very much Hitler, deservedly so. Their interest is in making the world see that, so if they think being hyperbolic is going to be more effective in achieving that, that's what they're going to do. I agree it's been detrimental to their cause to do so, especially since it's been a trend all the way to the top, with the SNC resorting to a lot of it at Geneva. It's given room for idiots like that fat kid to exist by hurting their credibility. If they're inaccurate about how victimized they are, maybe they aren't victims at all, etc etc. But at the end of the day, they are the victims, and there's not much distinction to made between Assad's concentration camps being a "Holocaust" or just a network of systematic torture that has murdered a shitload of people. And none of them asked for this. A lot of the established news networks in Syria now were built from the ground up by people who not so long ago, in many cases weren't even politically active. It's all been built on the fly under a military campaign against their message. One other distinction to be made is that the regime has defined this conflict as they are the established, internationally backed force that the grassroots opposition had to counter from its inception. This extends to the media, where the war is also going on. Assad from the get go has lied, used hyperbole, and some very nasty tactics to slander the opposition against him as nothing but internationally backed jihadists. With that being the state of the media in Syria before and throughout the war, it's going to bleed into the victims portrayals of it, just as the regimes brutality and use of chemical weapons has. As an example, it was often the case that the regime would detain someone prominent, take over their Twitter account, and use it to spread propaganda. Then opposition journalists would have to get a hold of Twitter and tell them that they needed to suspend the account, and Twitter would just kind of sit there dumbfounded like what in the gently caress. That's not something we in the West can really imagine. But it's clearly not a environment conducive to journalistic integrity. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 07:52
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Cease to Hope posted:so are you saying pro-Assad forces didn't disappear anyone in Aleppo to prisons where mass graves are going to be found in 2018 or what I don't think they feared for their lives, at least not any more than usual for someone in Aleppo. They were English-speaking journalists who knew full well they were going out on green buses. I think they knew exactly what they were doing, hyping up the propaganda in an effort to encourage Western intervention. And regardless of what their intentions were the media certainly shouldn't have been publishing their claims with zero confirmation. Is it a good thing to you that the media was reporting 300,000 civilians trapped in Aleppo when the actual number turned out to be 1/10th of that? Should we just lie because you support one side of this civil war?
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Feb 10, 2017 07:53
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Volkerball posted:True, but the context is that the voices of Syrians who are being brutalized by Assad are among the most marginalized in the world. No, it's one of the most intensely covered conflicts in history. It has constant headlines in American newspapers, Academy Award-nominated documentaries, and repeated in-depth investigations in every publication worth its salt, and almost all of this is advancing the rebel position. If you want to find "marginalized voices", go to South Sudan. Go to Congo. Go to Myanmar where there's an ongoing genocide against the Rohingya Muslims no one's heard about, ordered and perpetrated by a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Syria's practically the center of world attention.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:00
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Volkerball posted:It's given room for idiots like that fat kid to exist by hurting their credibility. I'm curious as to how i'm the idiot when everything i said about the conclusion of the Aleppo Siege turned out to be true and all the histrionics by you and others turned out to be blatantly transparent jihadist propaganda.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:14
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thatfatkid posted:I'm curious as to how i'm the idiot when everything i said about the conclusion of the Aleppo Siege turned out to be true and all the histrionics by you and others turned out to be blatantly transparent jihadist propaganda. how many people from Aleppo were arrested by pro-Assad forces
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Feb 10, 2017 08:15
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Cease to Hope posted:how many people from Aleppo were arrested by pro-Assad forces You tell us. And when you get done figuring that one out, take a moment to consider why you're so concerned about hypothetical atrocities in Aleppo over documented atrocities going on all over the world. It's almost as though your interest is being channeled in a certain direction.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:23
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Thug Lessons posted:No, it's one of the most intensely covered conflicts in history. It has constant headlines in American newspapers, Academy Award-nominated documentaries, and repeated in-depth investigations in every publication worth its salt, and almost all of this is advancing the rebel position. If you want to find "marginalized voices", go to South Sudan. Go to Congo. Go to Myanmar where there's an ongoing genocide against the Rohingya Muslims no one's heard about, ordered and perpetrated by a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Syria's practically the center of world attention. It's mostly revolved around al Qaeda. Given the reaction against anything that would benefit them, It's pretty clear that what little out there focuses on the suffering of civilians at the hands of the regime is seen as less credible than the dumb bullshit you talk about, like how Bana Alabeds Twitter was run by some nasty jihadist tweeting from the front lines on a phone the US gave him, and there's not tens of thousands of children and mothers in Syria who could tell you the same stories.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:23
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BTW guys the Muslim Ban has been smacked down again by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:29
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Volkerball posted:It's mostly revolved around al Qaeda. It's pretty clear that what little out there focuses on the suffering of civilians at the hands of the regime is seen as less credible than the dumb bullshit you talk about, like how Bana Alabeds Twitter was run by some nasty jihadist tweeting from the front lines on a phone the US gave him, and there's not tens of thousands of children and mothers in Syria who could tell you the same stories. Do you really believe that? The White Helmets documentary is up for an Oscar, there was this no-stop discourse about how America has to do something to stop the atrocities in Aleppo, (which amounted to all of 3,000 casualties in the end), Aleppo's being called the worst thing since Sarajevo if not Warsaw 1945, and you think the discourse hasn't centered on civilians and how Bashar is evil? I honestly can't tell if you're deluded enough to believe lonely voices like mine drown out that cacophony or you're just playing for points.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:30
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Thug Lessons posted:Do you really believe that? The White Helmets documentary is up for an Oscar, there was this no-stop discourse about how America has to do something to stop the atrocities in Aleppo, (which amounted to all of 3,000 casualties in the end), Aleppo's being called the worst thing since Sarajevo if not Warsaw 1945, and you think the discourse hasn't centered on civilians and how Bashar is evil? I honestly can't tell if you're deluded enough to believe lonely voices like mine drown out that cacophony or you're just playing for points. In this thread there was. Sure there were articles that argued something needed to be done about Aleppo, and if you immersed yourself in them, it might seem like it was reflected in the overall American discourse, but it was not. For most people, the only thing of significance about Aleppo is that Gary Johnson didn't know where it was, not that they did either. Even for a lot of the people who sympathize with the victims in Syria, and watch things like the white helmets movie, they still have felt the only opposition to Assad are al Qaeda aligned, and the US has no business getting involved there. It's nothing more than a sad tragedy that they're viewing after the fact. There's nothing to be done. If standing against intervention was a marginalized position, and the discourse was pro-rebel, you'd know it, because we would've intervened. Instead, polls for a simple bombing campaign meant to limit the regimes ability to project force were at 19% in favor after the second worst chemical attack on civilians in history. "They're no angels either," clearly won the day. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 08:38
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Volkerball posted:For most people, the only thing of significance about Aleppo is that Gary Johnson didn't know where it was, Yes, a presidential candidate was asked "what would you do about Aleppo" on a mainstream news channel. It's been a pretty obscure event, on the whole.
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Feb 10, 2017 09:33
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Thug Lessons posted:Do you really believe that? The White Helmets documentary is up for an Oscar, there was this no-stop discourse about how America has to do something to stop the atrocities in Aleppo, (which amounted to all of 3,000 casualties in the end), Aleppo's being called the worst thing since Sarajevo if not Warsaw 1945, and you think the discourse hasn't centered on civilians and how Bashar is evil? I honestly can't tell if you're deluded enough to believe lonely voices like mine drown out that cacophony or you're just playing for points. 3000 people you utter piece of poo poo. Also alot more than "just" 3000 people were killed, wounded and left homeless during the course of the fighting.
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Feb 10, 2017 09:51
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Volkerball posted:In this thread there was. Sure there were articles that argued something needed to be done about Aleppo, and if you immersed yourself in them, it might seem like it was reflected in the overall American discourse, but it was not. For most people, the only thing of significance about Aleppo is that Gary Johnson didn't know where it was, not that they did either. Even for a lot of the people who sympathize with the victims in Syria, and watch things like the white helmets movie, they still have felt the only opposition to Assad are al Qaeda aligned, and the US has no business getting involved there. It's nothing more than a sad tragedy that they're viewing after the fact. There's nothing to be done. If standing against intervention was a marginalized position, and the discourse was pro-rebel, you'd know it, because we would've intervened. Instead, polls for a simple bombing campaign meant to limit the regimes ability to project force were at 19% in favor after the second worst chemical attack on civilians in history. "They're no angels either," clearly won the day. Ah yes, nothing could possibly have happened before which would possibly tell people that "simple bombing campaigns" never end up staying that way. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 11:08
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Thug Lessons posted:That actually brings up a somewhat interesting point in that the rebels aren't actually that interested in the prisons, even though they're arguably the greatest atrocity of the war from any side. What they are very, very interested in is atrocities that are militarily relevant, most notably the recent siege of Aleppo. We were told over and over again that the government/Russian bombing campaign was literally the Holocaust, that hundreds of thousands of civilians were trapped in the city with no food and under constant bombardment, the women are killing themselves because they'll be raped otherwise, and so on. I actually got caught up in myself and if you look back in the thread you can see me re-posting White Helmets propaganda, which I deeply regret. Do you remember that the Holocaust was organized in what were essentially prisons? And that the fear of people from rebel Aleppo was that they'd be taken to prisons and then just made to disappear, after a sham trial and a lot of gratuitous torture? Whenever people talk about Assad's crimes, they talk about what happens in prisons; not just about how Assad loves to bomb marketplaces with chlorine barrels. Obviously the bombing would stop once the regime would regain control of all of Aleppo, so why do you think they were talking about holocaust? Why do you believe they preferred to be bombed rebels than subjects of the regime? What could be so bad that bombs are preferable? Think, you idiot.
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Feb 10, 2017 11:27
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If you wanna get real technical, your next-of-kin (Provided they weren't, y'know, in the general vicinity) would probably be able to collect your remains if you got hit by an Earthshaker.
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Feb 10, 2017 12:18
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Volkerball posted:In this thread there was. Sure there were articles that argued something needed to be done about Aleppo, and if you immersed yourself in them, it might seem like it was reflected in the overall American discourse, but it was not. For most people, the only thing of significance about Aleppo is that Gary Johnson didn't know where it was, not that they did either. Even for a lot of the people who sympathize with the victims in Syria, and watch things like the white helmets movie, they still have felt the only opposition to Assad are al Qaeda aligned, and the US has no business getting involved there. It's nothing more than a sad tragedy that they're viewing after the fact. There's nothing to be done. If standing against intervention was a marginalized position, and the discourse was pro-rebel, you'd know it, because we would've intervened. Instead, polls for a simple bombing campaign meant to limit the regimes ability to project force were at 19% in favor after the second worst chemical attack on civilians in history. "They're no angels either," clearly won the day. Aleppo definitely reached popular consciousness again as Assad was taking it, and I'm sure you had normie friends posting about it on Facebook at the time,. Hysterical stories about how Assad was committing genocide in Aleppo were all over the place, and major media outlets which should know better by now were parroting the most outlandish claims. I don't blame the civilians affected for being terrified, because anyone would be, but some of the coverage around Aleppo was propaganda, just as the media and government certainty that Qaddafi was going to slaughter everyone in Benghazi was. I don't think the media have a huge bias in favor of intervention so much as they're lazy and sensationalize everything, especially when government sources support the narrative. By contrast, the saturation of coverage on the Assad death camps, which seem to be far worse in reality, has been far lower, probably because there's no realistic 'something must be done!' angle to apply to it (and because the Trump administration doesn't care about it).
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Feb 10, 2017 15:39
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https://twitter.com/Abood_Dwehe/status/830066577492017159 "Syria's democratic forces and the Assad regime coordinated to launch a joint military operation on Deir Ezzor province." Pretty good news for all parties involved if true. I imagine that overt military cooperation between SAA/SDF would be really good for the long term relations and for whatever comes next once IS is out of the picture as a major player Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 17:14
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Latest Assad interview with Yahoo news. https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-defiant-assad-tells-yahoo-news-torture-report-is-fake-news-100042667.html
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Feb 10, 2017 17:43
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Holy crap, the SDF are like 5 KM away from Raqqa: https://twitter.com/A7_Mirza/status/830052532152102913 quote:#WrathOfEuphrates Ph 3  Other stuff: https://twitter.com/abdullahawez/status/830106232283357187 quote:Syrian Kurdish sources say US Department of State has agreed for #Rojava administration to open a representation office in Washington DC.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:19
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RE the whole: 'rebels don't care about prisons' The rebels have attacked prisons again and again throughout this conflict. Several of the most infamous prisons are inseparable from regime strongholds (eg one of the biggest and most referenced in this thread is directly under the hill of Assad's personal palace in Damascus. Other infamous prisons are part of the headquarters of the various intelligence agencies, which, again, tend to be located in major strongholds. Honestly the books that come out of this in a few decade are going to make the literature on Argentina's dirty war look tame.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:24
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Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's holed up in Libya or some other spot, right? I haven't exactly been keeping tabs.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:14
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WarpedNaba posted:Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's holed up in Libya or some other spot, right? I haven't exactly been keeping tabs. Probably Raqqa, but he doesn't check in on foursquare much anymore.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:22
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You'd think with the way things are going, he'd have run the gently caress out by now.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:29
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