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Nemelex altars seem to come up early a lot so I take her frequently. Extremely powerful god, not Trog-level but better than most choices. I usually end up regretting it because I then have to spend 30 minutes managing my inventory instead of playing the game.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:35
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Thug Lessons posted:You also have a god that has a scope that's similarly narrow on the same single skill, and is also actually a lot narrower because she focuses on a single item within that skill. I'm actually confused about who this is referring to. Old Nemelex? It doesn't really apply to new Nemelex.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:48
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Darox posted:I'm actually confused about who this is referring to. Old Nemelex? It doesn't really apply to new Nemelex. Sure it does.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:50
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Internet Kraken posted:What? This is utterly bizarre. I'd argue plenty of the gods have a scope just as narrow as Pakellas. I mean, any god that scales off invocations only revolves around one skill. And like, how is Kiku anything more than the god of necromancy? I'm not sure if dpeg means a single play style, a single character archetype or a single skill on the skill screen. Kiku is focused on a single skill on the skill screen, but is useful to a broad variety of character archetypes and play styles. I never played Pakellas, so I don't how definitive of your play style the god was, but I suspect dpeg's point is that the god pushed you towards a very narrow range of character archetypes. Most characters worshiping Pakellas would end up looking the same, which is presumably not desirable and quite different from the situation with Kiku. Again, I don't know whether or not that's true, I'm just attempting translation.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:52
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Thug Lessons posted:Sure it does.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:53
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Darox posted:Okay then but 'this God only cares about invocations and only provides things that use and scale with invocations' applies to like half the gods and the fact that Nemelex packages their god abilities in item form doesn't really make them super different from someone like Makhleb in terms of focus. And yet, apparently, 'this God only cares about evocations and only provides things that use and scale with evocations' was apparently the justification for axing Pak. I don't get it. She's just wand Nemelex.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:56
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A lot of the mutations in the game are just "a number is higher or lower yay or boo" and pretty much equivalent to equipment. Good for slot-restricted races but not very interesting otherwise. Most of the game altering mutations are bad ones, so it just amplifies the punitive feel of the system when good ones are nice to have but not typically noticeable while the bad ones are very impactful, and the system is forced on you. I think mutations would be best as an entirely opt-in system of purple chuggin' where you roll the dice to risk those game defining bad mutations to get equivalently game defining positive mutations. Demonspawn are cool and good and popular because the high tier mutations are mechanically interesting and can make characters with unique sets of abilities, whereas the mutations other races have access to are largely just weird temporary equipment ego slots and the whole system seems extraneous besides making me feel bad for seeing lots of red on my character sheet. also remove malmutate regardless
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Feb 10, 2017 05:00
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Thug Lessons posted:There are many, many gods that grant the ability to go around limited resource caps. Trog and Oka for unlimited weapon acquirement, Ely for unlimited healing, and Sif for unlimited mana and spell books, to name a few. There's nothing stupid about it conceptually, at least not any more than those gods are stupid. Meanwhile with Pak I never, ever ran out of wand charges-and that's basically all the god did, minus getting a rod eventually. I don't see your comparison with any of those gods. Internet Kraken posted:I keep meaning to try Nemelex after the switch to invocations but I never even remember she exists. Plus like, what is she gonna give my character that I can't get from another god? I'm honestly not sure. unfortunately, also inventory hassle LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 05:06
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I'm not sure if dpeg means a single play style, a single character archetype or a single skill on the skill screen. Kiku is focused on a single skill on the skill screen, but is useful to a broad variety of character archetypes and play styles. I never played Pakellas, so I don't how definitive of your play style the god was, but I suspect dpeg's point is that the god pushed you towards a very narrow range of character archetypes. Most characters worshiping Pakellas would end up looking the same, which is presumably not desirable and quite different from the situation with Kiku. Again, I don't know whether or not that's true, I'm just attempting translation.  Gods like Ashenzari or Makhleb are very versatile: you can basically slap them onto any character, and it will work. Gods like Trog and Vehumet are much more narrow, but we're fine with this because bashing things to death or shooting things to death are supposedly fun if you play Crawl. Nemelex and Kikubaaqudgha use single skills, it's true, but N provides a whole buffet of effects and K can be used on many more characters than pure necromancers. I really feel bad for Grunt -- we should've discussed this beforehand  Anyway, the last batch of gods added is so strong, in my opinion: Ru, Hepliaqlana, Uskayaw, hopefully Ieah Jiao too. "Strong" does not refer to power, but to design and flavour.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:17
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Give characters an evolved form of bad muts. Like the character is learning to live with or utilize their new features. Teleportitis could evolve after getting enough XP, still have you teleporting to foes (with a warning) while also giving you an innate blink. Shouting could evolve to give you a stunning roar. Poor vision some sort of daredevil sense creature based on your hearing improving to compensate. By giving you a bonus in with your handicap you push the character in a new direction instead of making the player just feel crippled.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:17
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trog is really narrow but I feel like I do more with trog(or oka)'s active abilities than I do with "more wands and they don't run out", which is really dull. I would be in favor of an evo focused god but hopefully it comes after wand stacking(which is maybe #1 on my list of things I want in crawl atm)
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Feb 10, 2017 05:26
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Thug Lessons posted:Nemelex altars seem to come up early a lot so I take her frequently. Extremely powerful god, not Trog-level but better than most choices. I usually end up regretting it because I then have to spend 30 minutes managing my inventory instead of playing the game. IronicDongz posted:some of the most powerful albeit unreliable abilities in the whole game, ex: friendly random pan lords and very high ranged damage in heavy armor(much stronger than makhleb's) Guess I'll give her yet another shot. Might as well playing boring heavy armour moo cow while I'm at it since its been ages since I touched one.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:45
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dpeg posted:Gods like Trog and Vehumet are much more narrow, but we're fine with this because bashing things to death or shooting things to death are supposedly fun if you play Crawl. IronicDongz posted:I wouldn't call any of those unlimited in practice. Ely certainly does not give anywhere near unlimited healing, the amount of piety used by Sif's channeling means you can't always do it(also, MP is only a limited resource in the short term, unlike wand charges!) and taking a turn to channel is a much more meaningful limitation that you have to consider on a case by case basis compared to quick charge(which you never normally used in combat, unlike channeling which is a temporary buff) plus you only get spellbooks once you've gotten a whole lot of piety(and won't get that many in the course of a non-extended game), and Trog and Oka gifts are nothing at all like "unlimited weapon acquirement". Surging was also a great ability and I constantly used it, especially on hex wands. I don't know. I like Pakellas a whole lot and was sad to see em go. With removal of the good wands they really ain't that overpowered seeing as you are sacrificing casting for that delicious recharge. Maybe just forbid any mana restore/regen potions or effects and make recharge consume one permanent charge on a wand each time it is used? Edit: loving phone spell check World Famous W fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 06:14
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Back in the strange world of people actually playing the game, I have a new entry for Crawl's Most OOD: Possible spellset: LCS, Blink, Bolt of Cold, Bolt of Fire. Or Banishment. I'm on D7. WTF. I've been boggled by getting a hill giant or cyclops this early but I have never seen a wizard pre D12 and that was in a vault... edit: this thing is guarding a vault taking up half of D7: 
Araganzar fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 06:58
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I actually really like shafts, even if in practice you only fall into them ultra-early and end up with a D:2 character on D:4. Thug Lessons posted:She's just wand Nemelex. Araganzar posted:Back in the strange world of people actually playing the game, I have a new entry for Crawl's Most OOD:
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Feb 10, 2017 07:03
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OOD monster vaults are pretty bullshit when the monster is a yaktaur captain that decides to just roam around.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:08
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Can Of Worms posted:That's the_grid, which drops a bunch of OODs in Dungeon. I've seen one player with a frost giant, yaktaur captain, stone giant, dragons, ettins on the same floor as the Lair entrance. Well, I will never know. I hit a teleport trap and landed in the water next to 4 killer bees in a robe with no rpois. Lousy loving luck, I'd found book of conjurations and rings of wizardry and magical power and was crushing everything with Battlesphere (0.19). And I had magic regen and antennae Ds mutations which are ideal for a caster. I am never going to win DsSu, I think I've splatted more than maybe any other Ds.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:24
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It'd be cool if all mutations were positive or double-edged in the long term. There'd be ones which are strictly negative at first but after you earned enough XP you'd master them and learn to benefit somehow. So like deformed body eventually gets you bonus EV or GDR as you learn to move yourself, deteriorating might give you a chance to have negative status effects just fall off you soontaneously, etc.
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Feb 10, 2017 09:28
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I'm working on an unbelievably stealthy stabber right now and wondering where to go from here. I've cleared lair and orc, so I'm reaching the point where I can't rely on hexes to deal with everything because I'm going to start running into stuff with hefty MR. I can generally invis-stab a lot of stuff, but should I be expanding my casting more at this point? I haven't played a stabber this far since...before Dith was in the game. e: Also, should I be using that falchion? It looks real good and that dex bonus is kind of ridiculous, but long blades are significantly worse for stabs. Panic! at Nabisco fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 11:11
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if mana viper is available always grab that poo poo if not probably grab some other summon. spectral weapon ain't bad either.
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Feb 10, 2017 11:17
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I won my first game of crawl yesterday. Everyone who is having trouble winning should wear heavy armor and become unstoppable.
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Feb 10, 2017 13:01
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I'm working on an unbelievably stealthy stabber right now and wondering where to go from here. I've cleared lair and orc, so I'm reaching the point where I can't rely on hexes to deal with everything because I'm going to start running into stuff with hefty MR. I can generally invis-stab a lot of stuff, but should I be expanding my casting more at this point? I haven't played a stabber this far since...before Dith was in the game. Don't stab with long blades. And don't stab with a short sword either. Stab with daggers. You can use bigger weapons for fighting things, but always switch to your dagger for stabbing.
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Feb 10, 2017 13:56
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Short blades are fine for use in stabbing as they do still give you a damage bonus, just that daggers will reach the cap in half the skill. With his skills and Dex as they are, daggers just reached the cap of 30. All other short blades would have ~22 after stepdown. And that's ignoring the additional base level damage bonus that all weapons would get. From personal experience, if you have a decent non-dagger short blade then it's generally enough to one-shot most enemies without needing to hold a slot for dagger. And I find that the opportunity cost of switching to dagger for sleep stabs is probably worse; you don't want to hang around in Line of Sight to give your potential target more time to notice you.
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Feb 10, 2017 14:39
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That's fair. When I play stabbers I always keep my dagger in-hand to avoid that.
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Feb 10, 2017 15:23
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With 26 combined skill and 25 dex most stab attempts won't need a dagger to get a kill. If you are stabbing a hydra or several confused enemies you probably want to swap to a dagger or quick blade. I find the quick blade gives you enough extra stab attempts during confusion/invis to make it worth it when the dagger will often overkill. Here is a cool vault I don't think I've seen before: staff of olgreb guarded by three sets of poison monsters (ants, moccasins, bees).  A pack of moccasins and bees at D7 is a BIT out of my weight class so I hope I can come back later because that staff rocks early on...
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Feb 10, 2017 16:06
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Araganzar posted:With 26 combined skill and 25 dex most stab attempts won't need a dagger to get a kill. If you are stabbing a hydra or several confused enemies you probably want to swap to a dagger or quick blade. I find the quick blade gives you enough extra stab attempts during confusion/invis to make it worth it when the dagger will often overkill. One of my favourite things to explore in crawl with every update are the new vaults that people have made. These are cool!
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Feb 10, 2017 16:20
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Ferrinus posted:It'd be cool if all mutations were positive or double-edged in the long term. There'd be ones which are strictly negative at first but after you earned enough XP you'd master them and learn to benefit somehow. So like deformed body eventually gets you bonus EV or GDR as you learn to move yourself, deteriorating might give you a chance to have negative status effects just fall off you soontaneously, etc. This would be fun!
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Feb 10, 2017 17:02
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I'm liking this character a lot so far, and Vehumet has been doing me very right, but I don't know where to go after Spider and Swamp. Vaults? I'm still terrified of Vaults 5, but without Corrosion resistance, Slime would be a death sentence. Abyss maybe? Also, spell/skill advice? I'm trying to keep a spread of elements of about L4 stuff, (though Fireball, BoD, and OoD have been my workhorse trio for a while now). I've never played a primary caster before, so I'm kind of in the dark here. Edit The un-ID'd amulet's guardian spirit, abandoned somewhere in Spider. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 17:04
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Either vaults or Elf is the next step. You should be okay in either place, but elf can be scary if you don't know what you're doing. Don't do vaults 5 after you clear V: 4. Do depths and maybe Crypt first! On your character, I would work on improving three points: First, you have tons of overlapping attack spells. You don't need bolt of draining and bolt of fire, for example. Icicle is actually hurting you here, because it weakens your servitor's spell set. Meph cloud is also of questionable value at this point to a green draconian with spellforged servitor. Your breath can replicate its effect when needed and it's not a very valuable spell for the servitor to cast. I would drop those two spells and work on picking up some utility. Blink is the first choice, then other low level utility spells if you've found them. Regeneration, sublimation of blood, and ozo's armor are others. Second, the short sword is going to stop doing much work soon. I would try to get 14 long blades for a scimitar or hopefully a demon blade. That will help you to conserve MP. Third, you really need more defense. 7 dodging is very low. My first goal on this character would be to get EV up to 20 or so, then diversify my skillset.
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Feb 10, 2017 17:30
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imo drop one of bolt of draining/fire, one of ood or poison arrow (keep poison arrow because you don't see so many opportunities like this to play with it), pick up blink and portal, and don't be so scared of vaults 1-4
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Feb 10, 2017 17:31
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And I just found a scroll of acquirement! I have no idea what to wish for. My jewelry is unexciting, but acceptable, same with my armor. I could save it until I get LB up and wish for a Weapon? I don't wanna wish for a book, I've got plenty of options there. Edit Holy poo poo, I just found a quick blade. Use brand, pray for speed/elec? girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 17:36
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Unimpressed posted:Random question to PF or other devs. Has the player survey completed? Are you going to publish the data? We're planning on leaving it running until the next release, to allow responses from offline players to keep trickling in. (Trying to avoid a bias toward responses from online players, who tend to see & respond to the survey much faster.) And yeah, we'll certainly publish the results once it's done! PMush Perfect posted:Edit Holy poo poo, I just found a quick blade. Use brand, pray for speed/elec? trivia: quick blades can't get speed brand. they're already Quick! also, speed brand tends to be bad on fast weapons and good on slow ones, so you wouldn't really want it anyway.
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Feb 10, 2017 17:53
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PleasingFungus posted:We're planning on leaving it running until the next release, to allow responses from offline players to keep trickling in. (Trying to avoid a bias toward responses from online players, who tend to see & respond to the survey much faster.) Would VS be an exception to that since it seems like you want as fast an attack speed as possible for proc bites?
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Feb 10, 2017 18:06
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There's a survey?
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Feb 10, 2017 18:13
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PMush Perfect posted:There's a survey? Yes, please fill it out!
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Feb 10, 2017 18:17
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PMush Perfect posted:And I just found a scroll of acquirement! You have no staff. Your first acquirement with Vehumet or Sif is almost always a staff so you can get staves of conjuration and energy.
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Feb 10, 2017 18:26
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Survey complete!  Araganzar posted:You have no staff. Your first acquirement with Vehumet or Sif is almost always a staff so you can get staves of conjuration and energy. quote:Magical Staves
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Feb 10, 2017 18:40
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Something confusing (or amusing) I just realized. Orcs absolutely love throwing Tomahawks around, but their throwing apt is -1.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:15
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They're not very good at it, but they try real hard. 
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Feb 10, 2017 19:20
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So I 15-runed gnollcrawl, here's something funny: You're still a level 1 character in hell but hell effects only got nerfed by having gnolls for all the summons. This means damaging hell effects can easily one-shot you if you can't become tanky enough. You need guardian spirit + MP equipment or very lucky drops like amulet of vitality. I got down to 2-3 HP a few times from getting blasted by hell effect stuff Now to actually play trunk version
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Feb 10, 2017 19:30
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