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The Clintonites in this thread do not realize that no matter how much they defend Perez politics is 90% perception. It doesn't matter if Peres IS no different from Ellison. What matters is that people perceive him to be so. And thats why Hillary lost the election. Idiots like you don't get perception at allll
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Feb 10, 2017 20:49
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:The Clintonites in this thread do not realize that no matter how much they defend Perez politics is 90% perception. It doesn't matter if Peres IS no different from Ellison. What matters is that people perceive him to be so. I don't think anyone who said we should give up on unions should be calling anyone else an idiot or telling us what to do.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:50
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:The Clintonites in this thread do not realize that no matter how much they defend Perez politics is 90% perception. It doesn't matter if Peres IS no different from Ellison. What matters is that people perceive him to be so. Well poo poo, why have policy at all if reality don't matter.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:52
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I strongly doubt that electing either candidate would form or deepen rifts in the Democratic Party, or even be particularly noticed by anybody that isn't the comparatively tiny amount of individuals in the United States who think about the DNC in any notable capacity
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Feb 10, 2017 20:52
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I don't think anyone who said we should give up on unions should be calling anyone else an idiot or telling us what to do. that guy is dumb but he's also right that people expect a sign that the party understands how it did wrong and is aiming to fix that. i don't think it'll be an entire split if perez wins because he's perfectly capable of doing that imo but there's a reason for the trepidation around him.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:53
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For those who were asking me to source the claim that Perez is the front runner, this is the article I was referring to
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Feb 10, 2017 20:55
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Fiction posted:that guy is dumb but he's also right that people expect a sign that the party understands how it did wrong and is aiming to fix that. i don't think it'll be an entire split if perez wins because he's perfectly capable of doing that imo but there's a reason for the trepidation around him. I find it really hard to believe capitulating to stupidity is a good idea. Jitzu_the_Monk posted:For those who were asking me to source the claim that Perez is the front runner, this is the article I was referring to Yeah that's different from the AP saying that he has a lead via their own independent count.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:55
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I find it really hard to believe capitulating to stupidity is a good idea. I didn't realize "asking for any sign that the dems are listening to the massive outpouring of left-wing energy" was a stupid desire
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Feb 10, 2017 20:56
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Fiction posted:I didn't realize "asking for any sign that the dems are listening to the massive outpouring of left-wing energy" was a stupid desire When they're crying about stupid poo poo not based in reality but their own head cannon, it is.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:57
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mcmagic posted:Can't you see that Ellison is about 100x more charismatic than Perez is at AT WORST a much better TV surrogate? I'll agree with that. I saw Perez on CNN this morning, and he was... not impressive.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:58
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Brainiac Five posted:Well poo poo, why have policy at all if reality don't matter. It doesn't matter. Thats one of the reason Trump won. You don't win elections based on reality you win them based on rhetoric and lies. This is Politics, what part of this do you not get?
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Feb 10, 2017 21:00
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:It kind of plays fast and loose with the truth, as _the Intercept is wont to do, This isn't true in the slightest. I'm sure they have mis-stepped in the past - all news outlets do - but they are not known for distortions. Get the gently caress outta here with this gaslighting poo poo.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:01
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Does Perez even have a realistic chance at beating Ellison? I was under the impression Ellison had it more or less locked up.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This isn't true in the slightest. I'm sure they have mis-stepped in the past - all news outlets do - but they are not known for distortions. Get the gently caress outta here with this gaslighting poo poo. "Things I don't agree with" aren't gaslighting honey. Journalists at the Intercept have their own biases and let that effect their writing just like virtually every other writer does, and what's worse they do the thing where they pretend they don't have it and they're above it all, while being in the process of doing the same thing they accuse other journalists of, it's mildly grotesque. And kind of shame because they do actually good investigative reporting, it just gets in their petty bullshit. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 21:02
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Lightning Knight posted:Does Perez even have a realistic chance at beating Ellison? I was under the impression Ellison had it more or less locked up. AP and other outlets were reporting that Perez had a solid lead after Biden endorsed him, about a week ago.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:04
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:It doesn't matter. Thats one of the reason Trump won. Considering that you also win elections based on effective advertisement, which union money helps pay for, perhaps you don't have as great of an idea about capital P Politics as you think you do. Lightning Knight posted:Does Perez even have a realistic chance at beating Ellison? I was under the impression Ellison had it more or less locked up. There were a few news reports saying that Perez had an early voting lead (note: iirc this was before john lewis expressed his support for Ellison), but because the DNC Chair vote deliberations are exclusively insider issues there's not very much concrete and detailed info about what's going on. I'm expecting Ellison to win based solely on the gigantic list of endorsements he has received from Democratic figures of every stripe.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:07
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The Glumslinger posted:He managed to best ever republican field ( Right but Hillary Clinton lost that election, he didn't win it. Cease to Hope posted:AP and other outlets were reporting that Perez had a solid lead after Biden endorsed him, about a week ago. Link? Ellison has pretty much the entire Senate caucus behind him.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:07
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mcmagic posted:Right but Hillary Clinton lost that election, he didn't win it. And this has what to do with the DNC chair nomination?
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Feb 10, 2017 21:08
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Cease to Hope posted:AP and other outlets were reporting that Perez had a solid lead after Biden endorsed him, about a week ago. Oh. Well that's actually kind of unfortunate. I mean I'm ok with Perez but I was honestly getting excited for Ellison after reading more about him. Is there like, somebody we can call and pester about voting for Ellison, or is not elected officials that get to vote?
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Feb 10, 2017 21:08
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mcmagic posted:Right but Hillary Clinton lost that election, he didn't win it. Neither Clinton nor Trump are running for DNC head.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:08
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Chelb posted:Considering that you also win elections based on effective advertisement, which union money helps pay for, perhaps you don't have as great of an idea about capital P Politics as you think you do. Bill Gates has more money than every single union combined.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:09
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:And this has what to do with the DNC chair nomination? It's another check mark next to Ellison's candidacy.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:09
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:It doesn't matter. Thats one of the reason Trump won. Well then poo poo, might as well get started on murdering and robbing people since I can just lie about doing it and no one will be able to tell.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:10
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Bill Gates has more money than every single union combined. Hmm, on second thought, get rid of my "perhaps"
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Feb 10, 2017 21:10
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mcmagic posted:It's another check mark next to Ellison's candidacy. So you like candidates who lose elections now?
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Feb 10, 2017 21:11
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Cease to Hope posted:Neither Clinton nor Trump are running for DNC head. No but it would be remiss of us to not see that the DNC chair battle is a proxy for the primary for the accelerationist bernouts that didn't show up last November. I like Ellison because I don't think he'd sell out immigrants, minorities, or other marginalized groups for left-wing populism no war but the class war stuff and because so far as I know he actually understands how international trade works. Perez is also ok but the truth is, we all know people are gonna throw a fit if Ellison doesn't win, and Ellison is actually Cool and Good so we get something good out of him winning anyway.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:11
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Fiction posted:that guy is dumb but he's also right that people expect a sign that the party understands how it did wrong and is aiming to fix that. i don't think it'll be an entire split if perez wins because he's perfectly capable of doing that imo but there's a reason for the trepidation around him. I don't know about that. Look at Perez' twitter feed. It's literally a greatest hits record from Hillary's campaign playbook. I think the sum of it is this painfully staged photo op with black high school students where he refers to institutional racism as an "opportunity gap". The whole thing is a carefully curated, inoffensive, tone deaf round of kum ba yah. Whatever actual opposition to Trump is there is in utterly meaningless and cringeworthy platitudes. Now look at Ellison's. It looks like the feed of your average leftist activist. It's not polished, it's current, it's relevant and it doesn't go out of its way to editorialize. There's a clear political momentum inferred by it. Extremely serious political things are happening right now, and Ellison is at least aware of them, if not directly involved. Which of these twitter feeds do you want to represent the party? Which do you think is effective in restoring populist legitimacy? I don't think there's a shred of actual policy difference between these two men, but I'm no longer convinced that matters at all. The DNC chair is a fundraiser, first and foremost, and Ellison has the potential to create the kind of populist momentum that Obama did in 2008 and Sanders did last year.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:12
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:So you like candidates who lose elections now? Bernie's campaign was much more impressive in every aspect than Hillary's. Growth vs Proficiency.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:12
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Considering the extent and breadth of Ellison's endorsements I'd honestly be surprised if he didn't get chosen. An early voting lead is good info to have but without knowing the specifics of how DNC voting works - that is, how important early leads are, how often votes are changed before Feb 23-26, etc. - it might not mean anything at all.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:14
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mcmagic posted:Bernie's campaign was much more impressive in every aspect than Hillary's. Growth vs Proficiency. Yet he still lost, and Ellison didn't do anything with his formal campaign. So I am really failing to see how it has anything to do with the actual matter at hand, other than you want a pound of flesh.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:14
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mcmagic posted:Bernie's campaign was much more impressive in every aspect than Hillary's. Growth vs Proficiency. Aside from losing by a massive margin.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:15
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Zerilan posted:Aside from losing by a massive margin. He started from 2% in the polling against a candidate with 100% name rec and every endorsement of national and local electeds that mattered.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:16
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:"Things I don't agree with" aren't gaslighting honey. quote:That's why, I think, the web has rewarded individual stars who report and write but make no bones about where they are coming from. In the end, they seem more reliable and accountable because of their biases than institutions pretending to be above it all. That's their senior editor, Glenn Greenwald, describing the kind of journalism he wants in an interview in 2013. https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/oct/29/new-york-times-newspapers
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Feb 10, 2017 21:17
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I love how it's anti Semitic to suggest America stop paying the middle eastern countries. We should also tell Egypt to take a hike.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:17
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mcmagic posted:Bernie's campaign was much more impressive in every aspect than Hillary's. Growth vs Proficiency. I'm actually inclined to agree with this. Bernie's first mistake was treating his primary run as a purely symbolic action. He should have planned more for the possibility to actually win and started in on campaigning and backdoor alliance making in 2012 for his run in 2016, and he almost certainly would've won. If we want a more progressive candidate in 2020 we have to start now. Once somebody less progressive is already the frontrunner a year out it's way, way too late to get in and change things. The election cycle never ends, and the conservatives never go home. We shouldn't either.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:17
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Again, I think Ellison is a much more telegenic person who I think is better suited to be the de facto face of the party for two years until we hit 2020 primary bullshit. He's obviously a more natural communicator. I do think Perez's involvement with labor and knowing how to work things "behind the curtain" are important skills and I would hope if he does not become the DNC chair that get him to run for some kind of office.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:18
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Again, I think Ellison is a much more telegenic person who I think is better suited to be the de facto face of the party for two years until we hit 2020 primary bullshit. He's obviously a more natural communicator.  I'd hate for Perez to just disappear, I think he has valuable skills that should be utilized in the future to Dem benefit whether we're talking about the DNC or something else
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Feb 10, 2017 21:19
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Again, I think Ellison is a much more telegenic person who I think is better suited to be the de facto face of the party for two years until we hit 2020 primary bullshit. He's obviously a more natural communicator. Ellison losing to Perez sends a really terrible message to the activist base.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:19
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Again, I think Ellison is a much more telegenic person who I think is better suited to be the de facto face of the party for two years until we hit 2020 primary bullshit. He's obviously a more natural communicator. Last I heard they wanted him to do something in Maryland if he didn't become DNC chair, no? Either Governor or Senator, I don't recall.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:19
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Lightning Knight posted:No but it would be remiss of us to not see that the DNC chair battle is a proxy for the primary for the accelerationist bernouts that didn't show up last November. Noted accelerationist bernouts Chuck Schumer, John Lewis, Elizabeth Warren, and, uh, Bernie Sanders.
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Feb 10, 2017 21:20
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