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SeanBeansShako posted:We just want to rub out battleships together, IS THAT SO WRONG!? Just the tip.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 16:37 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 14:43 |
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:Funnily enough, I would have exactly reversed the Roman/Greek comparison. Maybe I've read too many Romans on the decadence and dissolution of Greeks. There was a trend in France to portray themselves as heirs to the Romans after the 1789 revolution. Members of the first legislative assembly after the revolution even took to dressing in togas for a while. France was much more efficient, though. Where it took Rome 1000 years to go from republic to empire to complete collapse, France did it in ~25 years!
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 16:42 |
I like how you go straight to the psuedo toga but don't mention the cavalry helmets.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 16:48 |
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Phrygian caps
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 17:00 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:We just want to rub out battleships together, IS THAT SO WRONG!?
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 17:02 |
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PittTheElder posted:
It's not
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 17:42 |
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Gnoman posted:Normally any of the three incidents would have been enough to start a war, but while Roosevelt was trying to start one Hitler was desperately trying not to, as the US industrial might was one of the only things he ever feared. That is a little confusing because, well, I didn't think that if someone torpedoed one of your destroyers, they could then say "lol sry jk" and you would then have to say "drat well I can't just declare war unilaterally"
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 17:49 |
OwlFancier posted:That is a little confusing because, well, I didn't think that if someone torpedoed one of your destroyers, they could then say "lol sry jk" and you would then have to say "drat well I can't just declare war unilaterally" Roosevelt very much wanted to join in the war in Europe, because he viewed Hitler as extremely dangerous, but America First and the other isolationist factions were staunchly opposing any such plan, keeping him from being able to get a war declaration through Congress. The steady pressure on the borders of neutrality was intended to provoke Hitler into declaring war himself, but Hitler really, really didn't want the US to come in the way they did in 1917. Then Pearl Harbor happened and Roosevelt got his war, along with another war in the Pacific that -by all evidence- he didn't want.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 17:53 |
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Huh, that's surprising too. Hard to imagine an America that wouldn't take direct attacks on its ships as immediate grounds for invading someone.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 17:59 |
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OwlFancier posted:Huh, that's surprising too. Hard to imagine an America that wouldn't take direct attacks on its ships as immediate grounds for invading someone. Many people were upset with how WWI (which the US entered due to ship attacks) worked out, and weren't eager to get another hundred thousand Americans killed so Britain and France could keep their colonial empires. It took a lot to shake the mindset that it wasn't just WWI-2. Sample propaganda- https://www.amazon.com/England-Expects-Every-American-Duty/dp/B000XJ4O8W
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 18:25 |
OwlFancier posted:Huh, that's surprising too. Hard to imagine an America that wouldn't take direct attacks on its ships as immediate grounds for invading someone. In addition, the isolationist wing considered the sunk and damaged ships to be the fault of "that socialist traitor in the White House".
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 18:30 |
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P-Mack posted:Many people were upset with how WWI (which the US entered due to ship attacks) worked out, and weren't eager to get another hundred thousand Americans killed so Britain and France could keep their colonial empires. It took a lot to shake the mindset that it wasn't just WWI-2. I imagine it's also hard to get huffy over Belgian neutrality being violated.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 18:34 |
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Well, when you place your ship in the path of a torpedo while "not escorting" british convoys in an active war zone...
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 19:03 |
Boiled Water posted:I imagine it's also hard to get huffy over Belgian neutrality being violated. I imagine the Belgians may of had a slight problem with a really rude uninvited German army just showing up out of the blue.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 19:10 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:I imagine the Belgians may of had a slight problem with a really rude uninvited German army just showing up out of the blue. I meant anyone who matters.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 19:21 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:I like how you go straight to the psuedo toga but don't mention the cavalry helmets. Elaborate.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 20:13 |
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Phanatic posted:Just the tip. I think I fought that in a final fantasy game
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 20:20 |
Hogge Wild posted:Elaborate. Cuirassier and Carabiner helmets of Napoleon's French heavy cavalry.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 20:34 |
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"Jean if your horse gets shot out from under you, get on all fours and pretend to be one with this hat. Pierre, you get on his back."
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 20:35 |
OwlFancier posted:"Jean if your horse gets shot out from under you, get on all fours and pretend to be one with this hat. Pierre, you get on his back." You joke but by the late part of the 1812 invasion of Russia they were running out of their horses and had use steppe ponies, which more or less was just as silly looking.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 20:40 |
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You know, part of the battle of the Santa Cruz Islands being largely ignored that's really interesting is how strong the Japanese reaction was to the losses at Midway. They emptied out a strike that they had prepped overnight because of a night contact by PBY, and later, after the battle began and scouting SBDs found the Zuiho, the crews on the Shokaku and Zuikaku first stopped fueling a strike, then used everyone they had including flight crews to load torpedoes more quickly and then split a strike to get a deckload off the Shokaku as quickly as possible. It's interesting how everyone seemed to need a really nasty carrier loss to figure out just how vulnerable the things were.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:04 |
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xthetenth posted:You know, part of the battle of the Santa Cruz Islands being largely ignored that's really interesting is how strong the Japanese reaction was to the losses at Midway. They emptied out a strike that they had prepped overnight because of a night contact by PBY, and later, after the battle began and scouting SBDs found the Zuiho, the crews on the Shokaku and Zuikaku first stopped fueling a strike, then used everyone they had including flight crews to load torpedoes more quickly and then split a strike to get a deckload off the Shokaku as quickly as possible. That's a cool thing to bring up when talking about the "loaded dice" bits of how their carriers turned into bonfires at Midway. I mean it's accurate to say certain aspects of IJN operations meant that the Kido Butai was playing Russian Roulette, but it isn't like they didn't immediately adapt as much as they could reasonably adapt. Carrier design isn't something that could have been fixed overnight, partly because you can't just retrofit ventilation screens on a carrier at sea but partly because it wasn't like they could just iterate on design under the materials constraints. Not sure quite where I'm going with this line of thought but it's always useful to keep things like that in mind so you don't just fall back into great man style thinking. It wasn't like WWII was a shooting gallery full of automatons who never tried to adapt to the conditions, it's largely that the Axis powers kind of blundered into a war where one of their opponents had effectively limitless raw materials and could absorb stupid amounts of sunk costs in procurement whereas a belligerent whose supplies of iron and coal are part of a hot theater just can't just afford not to try to make do with deeply flawed equipment like the Panther.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:31 |
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Oh Christ almighty.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:41 |
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I'd swab her poop deck
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:05 |
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Gnoman posted:Fault of the greatest president in US history aka "that socialist traitor in the White House". Corrected with my compliments.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:10 |
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http://www.pwencycl.kgbudge.com/B/o/Bombs.htmquote:General-purpose or demolition bombs had thin metal walls, a large explosive charge, and a contact fuse that was triggered by a relatively light impact. Such weapons were effective against soft targets, which included unarmored ships, infantry in the open, and most civilian installations. http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/WarDamageReports/SummWarDamageSurface-8DEC43-7DEC44/SummWarDamageSurface-8DEC43-7DEC44.html pre:HANCOCK (CV19) 10/14/44 Formosa Island Bomb - 1 250 Kg. SAP Japanese bomb pierced 20mm gun platform at frame 14, port gallery, entered water and detonated about 50 feet from shell, a short distance below the surface. Minor fragment damage. FRANKLIN (CV13) 10/15/44 West of Luzon Bomb - 3 Small Japanese bomb penetrated after outboard corner of deck edge elevator. Detonated just below flight deck level. Minor fragment damage. Small gasoline fire. Second bomb detonated on striking water close aboard to port opposite frame 77. Third bomb detonated on striking water close aboard to starboard opposite frame 96. Minor damage. ESSEX (CV9) 11/25/44 East of Luzon Suicide Plane Crash Japanese suicide plane carrying a bomb, probably 63 Kg SAP, missed the island and crashed into outboard edge of flight deck port side about frame 70. Bomb detonated causing fragment damage. Bulk of plane carried over side. Minor fires and minor flight deck damage. KITKUN BAY (CVE71) 10/25/44 East of Samar Island Suicide Plane Crash Japanese suicide plane and bomb crashed into port catwalk and fell into sea about 25 yards off port bow. Small fires and minor fragment damage. SANGAMON (CVE26) 10/25/44 Southeast of Surigao Strait Bomb - 1 Struck by Japanese bomb on starboard side at frame 83, main deck level, under forward 40mm mount. Bomb ricocheted and detonated (low order) close aboard just above waterline. Shell plating deflected over large area with minor rupture at about frame 83. SUWANNEE (CVE27) 10/25/44 Southeast of Surigao Strait Suicide Plane Crash Japanese suicide plane carrying bomb crashed through flight deck about frame 64 starboard. Bomb detonated between flight and hangar decks. 25-foot hole in hangar deck. Minor fire. Fragment damage. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Feb 10, 2017 |
# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:19 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Oh Christ almighty. it's funnier now that i know you hate it
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:20 |
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Something's totally loving your tables there. It's spread across about 3 screens of horizontal space at 1920x1080
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:26 |
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It's the code tags, methinks.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:28 |
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my dad posted:It's the code tags, methinks. Yeah, used code not pre. Doesn't help that the PC I'm on hates forums so formatting is tougher than it should.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:29 |
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FAUXTON posted:That's a cool thing to bring up when talking about the "loaded dice" bits of how their carriers turned into bonfires at Midway. I mean it's accurate to say certain aspects of IJN operations meant that the Kido Butai was playing Russian Roulette, but it isn't like they didn't immediately adapt as much as they could reasonably adapt. Carrier design isn't something that could have been fixed overnight, partly because you can't just retrofit ventilation screens on a carrier at sea but partly because it wasn't like they could just iterate on design under the materials constraints. One of the best things about more recent books that have more access to the Japanese side of things is opening up the view of what the Japanese did more than the impression you get from earlier sources that they prepared for the war but past that point history happened to them and they didn't really try to react. Vincent Van Goatse posted:Oh Christ almighty. I'm still unreasonably mad that German ships weren't beefcake versions of their namesakes.
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 23:10 |
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lenoon posted:Corrected with my compliments. But Abe Lincoln wasn't in the White House during WW2
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# ? Feb 10, 2017 23:28 |
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xthetenth posted:
Prinz Eugen FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Feb 11, 2017 |
# ? Feb 11, 2017 00:11 |
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FAUXTON posted:Prinz Eugen I immediately went for Bismarck personally. Though I guess that would literally just be Old Snake from MGS4.
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 00:47 |
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OwlFancier posted:I immediately went for Bismarck personally. Prussian Gear!?
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 00:51 |
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OwlFancier posted:I immediately went for Bismarck personally. Hell no he'd be that dancing Mr. Clean with that bitchin' 'stache and the monocle and the stupid amount of military dress regalia. Then later on when he's taken a beating they can portray him as blind, lame, and with both arms in slings.
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 00:57 |
He'd then break some really expensive pottery to prove his point. Or buy chickens.
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 01:02 |
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FAUXTON posted:Prinz Eugen
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 01:11 |
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You can choose between Bismarck or Friedrich. I can't help but imagine him making this noise.
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 01:11 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 14:43 |
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OwlFancier posted:You can choose between Bismarck or Friedrich. I was thinking more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA7Ub1c2cI
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# ? Feb 11, 2017 01:18 |