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You literally cannot go wrong with a Cleric because all your major class commitments are re-doable within a day.
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Feb 11, 2017 13:40
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Nehru the Damaja posted:The mental image I'm getting of a beautifully serene sweetheart Iron Giant cleric stomping into the fray surrounded by flames and pain is too good not to do. If this particular game doesn't get off the ground I'm gonna try to run it somewhere. So theres a pretty popular D&D setting where that exactly type of warforged Cleric is an iconic archetype doing that exact kind of thing. They were built for it basically (seriously go have a look at Eberron for ideas on what this character has been and what they could be about). Agent355 posted:I like relatively light weight combat. I think combat should enable players to be cool and do cool things and you don't need to drag it out or make it complex to do that. I agree pretty much 100% with this list. Ironically this list is the reason I never shut up about the star wars system. kingcom fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 14:27
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Arivia posted:I don't have anything at hand because it's been awhile and this is seriously common knowledge in this forum. Zak S and the RPGPundit (both with credits in the core rulebooks) repeatedly harassed a number of Trad Games goons. They did it so much to one goon they had to drop out of the RPG industry and off the Internet entirely. Mike Mearls was complicit in this, knew about it, and probably assisted. The fact that you and a handful of other obsessives post every day about "grr 5th edn i hate it so much why don't you all realise you're not having fun even though you think you are" doesn't mean "this forum and this thread" agree with you. I posted a bit yesterday and now today because you in particular made the most hilariously dumb post about people playing games "wrong" but like many others I skirt doing so because the small but angry cohort of evangelical loons are seriously worse than the eve thread. And that's commonly believed, wrongly, to be as bad as it gets. Unsurprisingly, shitloads of goons play D&D - nerds play nerd games, who would have thought - but a common theme I've encountered is that this tumour of a thread is generally avoided because some dolt will complain that you can't possibly have had fun when you say you did. I truly wish that any of the games you tout really were as fun and accessible as D&D for most people because they'd have popular threads of their own and you would post there, instead. Arivia posted:Then y'all gotta learn to take your lumps. This is a thread about a game that hurt a lot of people here, and it's absurd to think it'll be all camaraderie and joy. You're getting negativity because that's what Trad Games has to offer about 5e. Weirdly I had decided against any cliched variation of showing on the doll where the bad game hurt you etc etc and holy gently caress it turns out that you are genuinely emotionally scarred by a set of make-believe hobbity punchy rules. I'm sorry man I'll try to be more understanding of your irrational obsession 
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Feb 11, 2017 14:55
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I don't know what the gently caress the last few pages was about but my party's dwarf paladin dropped his hammer off the side of a ship and summoned a giant seahorse steed to retrieve it for him, so I did a quick doodle to commemorate his reunion with it
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Feb 11, 2017 15:17
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kingcom posted:
I have almost no interest in the setting, but people I play with love it and have played the Star Wars game. The only thing they talk about though revolves around fall damage and how bad it is? I don't know if it's some running joke with them or something, but it literally comes up anytime Star Wars does. Solemn Sloth posted:I don't know what the gently caress the last few pages was about but my party's dwarf paladin dropped his hammer off the side of a ship and summoned a giant seahorse steed to retrieve it for him, so I did a quick doodle to commemorate his reunion with it This is amazing!
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Feb 11, 2017 16:16
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Endie posted:The fact that you and a handful of other obsessives post every day about "grr 5th edn i hate it so much why don't you all realise you're not having fun even though you think you are" doesn't mean "this forum and this thread" agree with you. I posted a bit yesterday and now today because you in particular made the most hilariously dumb post about people playing games "wrong" but like many others I skirt doing so because the small but angry cohort of evangelical loons are seriously worse than the eve thread. And that's commonly believed, wrongly, to be as bad as it gets. Unsurprisingly, shitloads of goons play D&D - nerds play nerd games, who would have thought - but a common theme I've encountered is that this tumour of a thread is generally avoided because some dolt will complain that you can't possibly have had fun when you say you did.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:32
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Nihilarian posted:literally no one in this thread has said "you're not having fun even though you think they are" It was a reference to Arivia telling me, yesterday, that I'd played D&D wrong for all these years and that doing what my groups had done was a cause of unfun play.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:47
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Endie posted:It was a reference to Arivia telling me, yesterday, that I'd played D&D wrong for all these years and that doing what my groups had done was a cause of unfun play. Arivia posted:Then for most of that time you were playing D&D wrong. It's nothing to be ashamed of, a lot of people do, but D&D is very much not a toolkit for generic fantasy emulation. A lot of people confuse it for that, and a lot of problems (including unfun play) stem from that confusion.
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Feb 11, 2017 17:03
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Nihilarian posted:you mean this? Sorry you can't read vOv
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Feb 11, 2017 17:10
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Needless to say, since then my current group and I have been closeted working full time on how we can mend our broken game and get rid of all that unfun play she warned us we were enduring.
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Feb 11, 2017 17:11
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the oppressed silent majority of 5e likers
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Feb 11, 2017 17:39
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Really Pants posted:the oppressed silent majority of 5e likers Two and a bit years in and the best sales figures for any version of the game since the heyday of the hobby. It's a success. Edit: oh wait am I wrong in using rational white-male evidence-based so-called "logic" that opresses fictional but equally-valid made-up positions? Were you also "hurt" by 5e? I think everyone who was hurt should post what this malign and cancerous set of tabletop game rules did to hurt them it'll be like an intervention and we can maybe make it change its ways and stop the carnage of emotional damage. Endie fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 17:43
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Endie posted:Sorry you can't read vOv Same, she didn't say that.
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Feb 11, 2017 17:47
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i'll start just to get the ball rolling one time I was rolling for initiative and I got a really low roll and i thought "maybe my character isn't a heroic figure of derring do it looks like he's a loving klutz who's going to die to a dumb giant toad i'm going to post endlessly on SA about how people who play this dumb game are stupid" and that made me super-sad for a bit but i got over it because it's a game who's next?
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Feb 11, 2017 17:50
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let me tell you, at length, that I am not even slightly upset and that I have charts saying everyone else probably agrees with me anyway
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Feb 11, 2017 18:00
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Turtlicious posted:Same, she didn't say that. Forgive my scepticism about your detachment and powers of critical thinking but you're the person who said that the reason 5th edition was a bad game was that some dudes who worked on it were shitlers. That spells bad news for the paintings of the murderer Caravaggio or the works of boy-fiddler Flaubert.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:03
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koreban posted:Multiclass with an Undying Light Warlock and get Cha bonuses to damage on all of your Fire and Radiant spells too, as well as resistance to Radiant damage, temporary HP after rests... it's pretty good. The thought of playing a Warforged who needs wisdom as his primary casting attribute, strength to drive that mace home, and charisma to have a modifier to add is a bit worrisome, even though making a patron of The Positive Plane feels spot on for a robot on a pilgrimage to understand the force that animates him. It'd be pretty cool to take Green Flame Blade so you could smash someone with a mace, proc that and also your Forge domain 1d8 fire damage, both adding the CHA modifier (ahaha and another with Elemental Weapon from forge domain) Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 18:04
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Endie posted:Two and a bit years in and the best sales figures for any version of the game since the heyday of the hobby. It's a success. The tabletop RPG market is a lot bigger these days than it was in the past. Not saying that 5e isn't a success sales-wise or anything since I don't know anything about that but 5e not selling more than it's predecessors would be a really weird considering how much bigger the market is now. Andrast fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 18:05
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Andrast posted:The tabletop RPG market is a lot bigger these days than it was in the past. That's pretty cool if so. WotC don't tend to give sales figures out so I was just basing it on the comment made by Mike Mearls about 5th edition already having outsold 3, 3.5 and 4 (individually) by summer last year.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:13
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That's not exactly high praise if he's comparing it to half an edition separately, and then to another edition whose PHB sales were cannibalized by WOTC's own web-tools. On top of the PHB n+1's of those other editions.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:16
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gradenko_2000 posted:That's not exactly high praise if he's comparing it to half an edition separately, and then to another edition whose PHB sales were cannibalized by WOTC's own web-tools. 3.5 was on sale for five years. 4th Edition was out for six. Out-selling those in a few weeks more than a year (I think Mearls made his comments in August last year) isn't to be sniffed at. Edit: come to think of it he probably didn't have firm figures for the pre-WotC editions. The way that TSR was run I doubt if they did. Endie fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 18:26
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Nehru the Damaja posted:It'd be pretty cool to take Green Flame Blade so you could smash someone with a mace, proc that and also your Forge domain 1d8 fire damage, both adding the CHA modifier. Im not sure you have to pile on the Wis. It'd be cool for Guided Bolt, but Undying Light lets you add your Charisma Modifier to damage from Fire and Radiant spells, so if you use cleric spells that require saves from the opponent instead of spell attack rolls (Sacred Flame), you don't need to pile on the Wis. you may not have as many prepared spells to use, and *that* could be somewhat limiting, but, a lot of cleric spell options are concentration spells which you can only have one of in use at a time. So pick one or two, take the utility spells like Sanctuary with durations and no concentration, and give yourself a 14 Wisdom while you pile on the Charisma.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:27
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koreban posted:Im not sure you have to pile on the Wis. It'd be cool for Guided Bolt, but Undying Light lets you add your Charisma Modifier to damage from Fire and Radiant spells, so if you use cleric spells that require saves from the opponent instead of spell attack rolls (Sacred Flame), you don't need to pile on the Wis. you may not have as many prepared spells to use, and *that* could be somewhat limiting, but, a lot of cleric spell options are concentration spells which you can only have one of in use at a time. Aren't spells that require an opponent's save still going to care about my wisdom because the save would be against 10+ wisdom modifier?
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Feb 11, 2017 18:33
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Endie posted:Edit: oh wait am I wrong in using rational white-male evidence-based so-called "logic" that opresses fictional but equally-valid made-up positions? Were you also "hurt" by 5e? I think everyone who was hurt should post what this malign and cancerous set of tabletop game rules did to hurt them it'll be like an intervention and we can maybe make it change its ways and stop the carnage of emotional damage. Lol this is the dweebiest poo poo ever "sorry I'm using logic instead of your pathetic fee-fees I guess I am just superior to you pathetic minorities  "Like, you're seriously using "the sales of this thing means it's good" logic here. I guess McDonalds and the Transformers movies are the height of taste and quality. Sorry to throw my unrivaled white male* logic into your sad faces *before you strawman me I am also a white straight male and my feelings weren't hurt and I rarely post about 5e so find another reason why I'm calling you a pathetic subhuman
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Feb 11, 2017 18:39
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Endie posted:3.5 was on sale for five years. 4th Edition was out for six. Out-selling those in a few weeks more than a year (I think Mearls made his comments in August last year) isn't to be sniffed at. The actual comment was that 5e's first year was stronger than the older editions' first years. If 5e had outsold an entire publishing run that quickly then WOTC's D&D staff would probably not have been downsized to Mike Mearls and a three-legged dog.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:44
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Guy A. Person posted:Lol this is the dweebiest poo poo ever "sorry I'm using logic instead of your pathetic fee-fees I guess I am just superior to you pathetic minorities It's good that you mention strawmen here because what the gently caress? Who mentioned minorities? The "white male" joke was a reference to Arivia being a big dumbo and saying that she bet someone who disagreed with her was a "white cishet male". And the sales figures was a direct response to someone else making a sly innuendo that enjoying playing 5e was, in fact, a minority position. The "popular is not equal to good" thing was covered pretty comprehensively yesterday so yeah justy go back and read that. So you didn't understand the context, you made some wildly misplaced attributions, and while ad hominem is great fun you have to actually put in a bit of work to make it funny or you're just relying on "ur a poopyhead" as the main plank of your position. I feel you could be good at this but you're going to have to put the effort in.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:50
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Really Pants posted:The actual comment was that 5e's first year was stronger than the older editions' first years. If 5e had outsold an entire publishing run that quickly then WOTC's D&D staff would probably not have been downsized to Mike Mearls and a three-legged dog. I'm afraid that you are wrong: https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/764241988128419840 "5e lifetime PHB sales > 3, 3.5, 4 lifetime"
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Feb 11, 2017 18:52
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They weren't making the "sly innuendo that enjoying playing 5e was a minority position" they were mocking the idea that 5e likers were being oppressed. They even evoked Nixon's "silent majority" of white religious conservatives. And I'm not really fussed about the context honestly, that was the smuggest "heh I have logic on my side" post that I've seen outside of the darkest corners of reddit. Again, let me clarify, I am not trying to be funny or defend anti-5e posters or even have a legitimate argument. I am trying to make you understand what a loving awful post that was and what it says about what kind of person you are deep in your soul.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:56
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what can i say i like having logic on my side
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Feb 11, 2017 18:57
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Endie posted:I'm afraid that you are wrong: fair enough, I was wrong, but the end result is still "if you ignore how new releases have ground to a complete and utter halt then 5e is doing fantastically"
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Feb 11, 2017 19:04
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Endie posted:3.5 was on sale for five years. 4th Edition was out for six. Out-selling those in a few weeks more than a year (I think Mearls made his comments in August last year) isn't to be sniffed at. 3.0's PHB was released in Aug 2000. The next year saw Defenders of the Faith, Oriental Adventures, Psionics Handbook, Song and Silence, Sword and Fist, and Tome and Blood. 3.5e's PHB 1 was released in July 2003. Complete Warrior, Miniatures Handbook came out that same year, followed by Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Expanded Psionics Handbook in 2004, Complete Adventurer and Magic of Incarnum in 2005, and then PHB 2 (among other, and so on and so forth) in May 2006. 4e's PHB 1 was released in Jun 2008. PHB 2 was released in Mar 2009, nine months later. Heroes of the Fallen Lands as the Essentials reboot was released in Sep 2010, 27 months after the edition's initial release. Mearls is and was making a specious argument by making it look like 5th Edition is more successful than these two half-editions and one full edition when he claims that the PHB sold more than than they did, when the PHBs weren't the only books being sold for those years. 5th Edition was released in Aug 2014. The only other big book of player-facing options that's come out since is Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide in Nov 2015, more than a year later.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:09
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Endie posted:what can i say i like having logic on my side This is a bad posting gimmick. Also, I have not really been in the loop for 5e, what has come out so far in the vein of supplements? I might actually give this game an honest shot sometime soon, curious if they have continued the route of supplement books or online dragon magazine kind of content.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:3.0's PHB was released in Aug 2000. The next year saw Defenders of the Faith, Oriental Adventures, Psionics Handbook, Song and Silence, Sword and Fist, and Tome and Blood. I'm not trying to be an arse here but I don't really get your point. Are you saying that the number of rules expansions that a system gets is a measure of its quality? Of its success? Or that you can't compare the core rulesbook sales if there are differing numbers of other expansions? I don't know why WotC have decided to cut back on the extra content after such a strong start in terms of sales. Presumably they're finding that the profit margin on the stuff they are releasing (adventures and stuff that don't interest me because gently caress the forgotten realms) gives them the ROI they need on the property. It annoys me a little when I make it to a games store but meh.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:47
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I think it's fair to argue PHB sales are more useful than total book sales when judging popularity and total player base. It's also fair to say tabletop gaming is experiencing a renaissance(so a larger market to sell to) and that there's probably a lot of (possibly unfair) hatred of 4e that helped drive sales. plus we all know that 5e isn't the best, it's whatever edition you played first that is best
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Feb 11, 2017 19:50
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How can I find what's legal for Adventurer's League? The official page, for example, says I can use any race "from the rules listed above" but doesn't list any. I know I can't use UA but what about stuff in Volos, for example?
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Feb 11, 2017 20:14
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mastershakeman posted:I think it's fair to argue PHB sales are more useful than total book sales when judging popularity and total player base. The worst one comes immediately after that.
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Feb 11, 2017 20:15
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Aren't spells that require an opponent's save still going to care about my wisdom because the save would be against 10+ wisdom modifier? It really depends on the enemies, but your spell attack bonus is Prof + Wis Mod vs. targets' AC. Whereas Spell Save DC is 8+ Prof + Mod. Speaking very, very generally. Considering a +3 Wis modifier (So you maxed Wis) for +5 to spell attack bonus, you're going up against target AC. Chances of success casting a Spell Attack cantrip (that the cleric doesn't normally get): Skeletons are 13 (50%), Zombies are 7 (65%), Humans can be from 10 (commoner) to 17 (veteran), so this varies a lot (40-75%). Goblins 15-17 (40-50%), Gnolls 15 (50%). For Spell Save DC attacks like Sacred Flame, at level 1 your 8 +proficiency modifier already makes you 50% successful against your opponent's die. Give yourself +2 to Wis mod, and you're at 60%. Then you're up against the creature's Wis modifier for their roll, which tends to be low for low level opponents. If you're fighting skeletons and zombies, their Wis mod tends to be -2, so you're looking at 70% chance of success. Thugs, veterans, bad mans tend to have +0, so 60% chance. Kobolds are at -2 (70%), goblins are -1 (65%), gnolls are +0 (60%), and on and on. I'm not a statistician and I'll drop a caveat that I could be completely wrong in how I'm calculating this, but my fingers and toes math says it's better to force an opponent's save than go up against AC early on.
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Feb 11, 2017 20:18
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Nehru the Damaja posted:How can I find what's legal for Adventurer's League? The official page, for example, says I can use any race "from the rules listed above" but doesn't list any. I know I can't use UA but what about stuff in Volos, for example? http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/AL_PH_SKT.pdf That's the Adventurer's League rules pack. Basically, you can use 1 supplement book for your character, so choose SCAG, Volos, Elemental Evil Player's Companion. If you want a Goliath, you can't be a SCAG Swashbuckler archetype. Use Standard Array or Point Buy (27 pts) for your character attributes. Weight matters for encumbrance. No Unearthed Arcana content is legal. Pick one of the faction organizations (Harpers, Zentharim, etc.). Fill out the RP stuff like background, personality, ideals, flaws, etc. but be prepared to never use them or have them come up. Take the trinket from the table in the PHB and again, be prepared to never have it come up. AL plays in Tiers, you always start at Level 1 and play in tier-specific games. So you won't tag along on 8th level games, you'll need to hang out with the new characters and bring yourself up to Tier 2 to get into those games. Adventurer league makes a lot of use of Renown and Downtime tracking, so you should familiarize yourself with those an what they can do for you. (Level boosts at 4th and 10th levels are popular choices) Characters in AL games can gift/trade magical items they received as part of the adventure, but you can't give gold or buy services from other players (no gold transferrance). You'll track rations, weight, daily living expenses. e: I was taking my son to AL games recently because he's been interested in D&D. We recently sought out a homebrew campaign at another LGS because the nitpicking and micromanaging of things like weight, rations, living expenses and the like was taking away from the fun of rolling dice and being heroes for him. I'm not avocating letting that get way out of hand, but the weight/encumberance rules as written *are* bad. A starting Cleric with 12STR and mace, shield, and scale mail with a folk hero background is 50% over his encumbrance limit with *just* your starting kit. koreban fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 20:27
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Endie posted:Forgive my scepticism about your detachment and powers of critical thinking but you're the person who said that the reason 5th edition was a bad game was that some dudes who worked on it were shitlers. That spells bad news for the paintings of the murderer Caravaggio or the works of boy-fiddler Flaubert. Yeah, a lot of people who aren't as glowingly smug about their privilege as you do decide not to consume content if lovely people are involved. I wouldn't watch a Polanski film or one by Woody Allen, either. And Turtlicious was right. Lots of people can make their own fun with a lot of different things. But if you have to make your own fun, if you're fighting your thing at every turn, then you might not be using your thing as intended. You were playing D&D wrong. A lot of people have fun playing D&D wrong. Playing D&D wrong often leads to unfun stuff, but not necessarily at all times for all groups. Edit: Thanks for the new title, Endie. Glad to see you're so upset your game of choice has some problems. Arivia fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 20:32
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mearls has also said that every edition of D&D sells better than the last, they could probably release 6th ed tomorrow and as long as it doesn't burst into flames on opening it will probably sell better than 5th
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Feb 11, 2017 20:37
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